Character Discussion Thread

[Sebz]

There are some weird names in Mega Man. Beat? Roll?

Mega Man is littered with musical references. After all, his name in Japanese is Rock Man, which gives us Rock and Roll. Proto Man's japanese name is Blues. And of course, we also have Bass and his robo-dog, Treble (Forte and Gospel in japanese).

 

[ThePsychoWolf]

Mega Man is littered with musical references. After all, his name in Japanese is Rock Man, which gives us Rock and Roll. Proto Man's japanese name is Blues. And of course, we also have Bass and his robo-dog, Treble (Forte and Gospel in japanese).

Huh. Not a huge fan of Mega Man, so I never paid that much attention.

 

[Zhadgon]

There are some weird names in Mega Man. Beat? Roll?

Eh... Inafune the creator of Mega Man loves music especially classic rock and jazz, thats why the name of Mega Man in Japanese is Rock Man, Proto Man is called Blues in Japan, Roll and Bass keep their names in both parts of the world, in fact if you mix Mega Man and Roll names in Japanese it gives this Rock 'n' Roll.

.n_n.

Edited; Greninja'd

 

[Scamper52596]

I'm going to assume you were referring to this post:

As stated earlier, this is the only evidence I agree is "significant", but I question how significant it really is. I don't remember Spirit Tracks being all that big of game, and it doesn't help that it was released all the way back in 2009, and thus instead we've been getting tons of Skyward Sword content. As for marketing potential for Wind Waker HD, I don't believe Toon Zelda has marketing potential at all; why use her to market a game that has not only long been released, but that Toon Link himself markets just fine? Even further, why use Toon Zelda to "rep" the Wind Waker stages if Toon Link can already do that just fine?

Spirit Tracks was big enough to receive a stage in the 3DS version. We got a decent amount of Twilight Princess content in Brawl when that game was still new. It's only natural that we would get the same for Skyward Sword. Also Sonic Lost World got a stage in the Wii U version. Why market that game even though it came out around the same time as Wind Waker HD?

But couldn't this also be interpreted as somewhat worrisome for Toon Zelda? Especially after Spirit Tracks, if they wanted to add Toon Zelda as a character with some deviations, having her playstyle based off of her Phantom Assists was the obvious method of doing so. Yet instead they threw the phantom on Zelda herself, despite that incarnation of Zelda having little connection to summoning Phantoms.

I can understand the logic that possibly Zelda using Phantoms at all could be a nod to the Phantom Zelda games (and, in turn, pertain to maybe Toon Zelda) but relegating such an obvious method of attacking for Zelda (and using the similar design for possessed Phantoms) to instead of Toon Zelda doesn't make me hopeful.

It's likely that they gave Zelda a variation of the Phantom move in order to keep her play style similar to Toon Zelda, because TZ would obviously be a clone. It could even be possible that the Phantom Slash was conceived for Toon Zelda first before being tacked on to regular Zelda. That being said, Toon Zelda isn't a character they would reveal before the game's release, just like Toon Link. That makes me feel more and more confident in her inclusion as the days pass without any word on a sixth Zelda representative.

Zelda wasn't meant to be "nerfed", and there were even PoTD's highlighting her buffs. It's obvious that the developers wanted to have Zelda stand out as her own character in this game, especially since Sheik always overshadowed her. Thus, after all that it seems counter intuitve to intentionally nerf a character that desperately needed buffs in many areas just so that Toon Zelda could acquire slightly different attributes of her..

Tell that to every Zelda main that played as her in the Demo. According to them, Zelda's Smash Attacks have been weakened, and some of her moves are a little slower. Like I said, they did the same to Marth for Lucina. There's no reason to think that they wouldn't do the same to Zelda for Toon Zelda.

I'm not saying that Zelda has been completely nerfed. I even mentioned a few days ago not to be too hard on Zelda because she still could receive a few more buffs for the actual version of Smash. It just seems to me that they're tweaking some of her moves to get ready for another variation. They gave Din's Fire a sweet spot in the core for a potential K.O., but the outside of the sphere doesn't seem to be as strong as it used to be. They could have given Toon Zelda's variation of that move a more even damage ratio, but taken away the sweet spot. Almost like Link's and Toon Link's bombs. Link's bomb causes more damage, but has a smaller blast zone. Toon Link's bomb has a larger blast zone, but the bombs ultimately do less damage.

To be fair, the only possibly candidate here that has a stumbling block is Ganon, since he needs to graduate from a Final Smash to be a fighter (presumably), but Ghirahim and Vaati, even though I find them unlikely, I don't believe that have all that much more against them then Toon Zelda. And that's only because she was planned for Brawl, which gives her a slight edge.

I disagree. There's a very particular way that they choose characters to be playable in Smash. They have to be relevant enough to their franchise to be considered. The characters don't always have to be in every game in their franchise, but they have to represent something special about their franchise. Such as Sheik, who represents a completely different version of Zelda, along with the most critically acclaimed game of all time. Robin represents a big part of what the Fire Emblem series is about besides the swordsmen. I could go into a big discussion about this, and I have a few times before, but I'll save going into that again for another time.

The more brief version of what I'm saying is that every character chosen to be playable in Smash are the perfect picks to represent their franchise. They don't pick characters to represent a big franchise that aren't very recognizable or don't play a big role in the franchise. My example for Toon Zelda: Her art style has been used in about a third of the games in the Zelda franchise. Her art style has stuck around to this day. If she was considered back then, she'll more than likely get considered again because she's relevant to her franchise more so than most Zelda characters are, which makes the character more recognizable. That's why she was the one being considered back then in the first place.

 

[mark welford]

One thing I have and I'm sure you guys have done too at one time or another is ponder the meaning of smash. What is the meaning of smash? I cant tell you that but one thing I can tell you is my meaning of the logo. My meaning of the logo is boundaries of different universes being shattered, paths being fated yet unintentionally crossed. Heroes and villains alike clash with unfamiliar faces in strange places they do not call home. Heroes clash with heroes or villains of another universe whose paths were destined yet unintentionally crossed in the world called smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh... Inafune the creator of Mega Man loves music especially classic rock and jazz, thats why the name of Mega Man in Japanese is Rock Man, Proto Man is called Blues in Japan, Roll and Bass keep their names in both parts of the world, in fact if you mix Mega Man and Roll names in Japanese it gives this Rock 'n' Roll.

.n_n.

Edited; Greninja'd

Tokuro Fujiwara is the creator of Mega Man, not Keiji Inafune

 

[aldelaro5]

One thing I have and I'm sure you guys have done too at one time or another is ponder the meaning of smash. What is the meaning of smash? I cant tell you that but one thing I can tell you is my meaning of the logo. My meaning of the logo is boundaries of different universes being shattered, paths being fated yet unintentionally crossed. Heroes and villains alike clash with unfamiliar faces in strange places they do not call home. Heroes clash with heroes or villains of another universe whose paths were destined yet unintentionally crossed in the world called smash.

Kinda sounds like the brawl theme.

But I asked myself this question a lot. The short answer is a tribute of art.

Because with so much elements reflecting other masterpieces, it makes this game itself the masterpiece of masterpieces. Smash was the first time I considered a video game to be an art and I realised that it's not the only one because of smash itself.

From a side note, I consider TTYD to be a masterpiece so I'm happy to see a moment of it referenced

 

[Skyblade12]

I have never hated a character considered for inclusion more than I currently despise Shulk. I wish to high heaven that we had never gotten that godforsaken "leak".

Tell that to every Zelda main that played as her in the Demo. According to them, Zelda's Smash Attacks have been weakened, and some of her moves are a little slower. Like I said, they did the same to Marth for Lucina. There's no reason to think that they wouldn't do the same to Zelda for Toon Zelda.

I'm not saying that Zelda has been completely nerfed. I even mentioned a few days ago not to be too hard on Zelda because she still could receive a few more buffs for the actual version of Smash. It just seems to me that they're tweaking some of her moves to get ready for another variation. They gave Din's Fire a sweet spot in the core for a potential K.O., but the outside of the sphere doesn't seem to be as strong as it used to be. They could have given Toon Zelda's variation of that move a more even damage ratio, but taken away the sweet spot. Almost like Link's and Toon Link's bombs. Link's bomb causes more damage, but has a smaller blast zone. Toon Link's bomb has a larger blast zone, but the bombs ultimately do less damage.

Most of the people I've seen who have played Zelda multiple times have come away with the opposite impression. She's not nerfed, she's just refocused. She has some incredibly powerful attacks now (like Farore's Wind), but they are very different from her old strengths. So players who jump in to play Zelda come out saying "oh, she's nerfed" because they can't play her the way she used to play. But apparently, if you get the hang of the shift in playstyle, she's actually pretty powerful.

 

[mark welford]

Kinda sounds like the brawl theme.

But I asked myself this question a lot. The short answer is a tribute of art.

Because with so much elements reflecting other masterpieces, it makes this game itself the masterpiece of masterpieces. Smash was the first time I considered a video game to be an art and I realised that it's not the only one because of smash itself.

From a side note, I consider TTYD to be a masterpiece so I'm happy to see a moment of it referenced

If people take a moment to step back they will realize even though smash is a fighting game it is a canvas. It is like you said a piece of art that is beautifully painted in a array of styles that is called diversity the one of many things that make smash beautiful. The logo alone is simply powerful yet beautiful as it stands in it glorious simplicity. It has strength in its mysterious uniqueness which it tells people without saying a word.

 

[aldelaro5]

If people take a moment to step back they will realize even though smash is a fighting game it is a canvas. It is like you said a piece of art that is beautifully painted in a array of styles that is called diversity the one of many things that make smash beautiful. The logo alone is simply powerful yet beautiful as it stands in it glorious simplicity. It has strength in its mysterious uniqueness which it tells people without saying a word.

I think I know what you mean and I always used the word "universal" for that.

The logo being so simple makes it vague. It;s actually because it's not specific, but global. Since I pay more attention to sounds then images, I found the menu 1 music in melee being the best examples. It;s only 40 seconds looped over and over, but it seems to never end. The melody along with the UI design gave me the feel that I wasn't living something specific, but something that is the foundation of specific entities known as series. The music doesn't gave a specific atmosphere which makes it more a combination of all of them. And the UI reveals that you have the control of those entity that would be represented by the characters because they reflect many playstyle from their respective entity. The location is like being into a circuit board or inside the system itself like you would for every stages being inside of the game.

I want to point out that menu 1 is still today the only song that can make my nostalgia cap every time. I probably heard it more than 1000 times and I still want to hear it again and again. It's like a reminder of how expansive smash is to be able to control so many entities.

But I never tough about the logo. I pay attention to sounds a lot more.

 

[Zynux]

Spirit Tracks was big enough to receive a stage in the 3DS version. We got a decent amount of Twilight Princess content in Brawl when that game was still new. It's only natural that we would get the same for Skyward Sword. Also Sonic Lost World got a stage in the Wii U version. Why market that game even though it came out around the same time as Wind Waker HD?

Haha, fair enough about the Spirit Track stage. I had actually completely forgotten about that

Also, I think you misunderstood my point on marketing. Before, you seemed to be insinuating that Toon Zelda would be used to market Wind Waker HD:

"She could also be used to market the Wind Waker HD. If the Wii U version gets a Wind Waker stage, Toon Zelda could be there to represent a Zelda stage on both versions."

But I'm wondering is how is this evidence, when Toon Link can already meet these criteria? He himself already advertises Wind Waker HD and Spirit Tracks, so why would they need to use Toon Zelda for the same thing? That's why I'm saying she has little to no marketing potential; I think the ship has long since sailed for it. If Toon Zelda gets in, I speculate marketing wouldn't play a factor into it.

It's likely that they gave Zelda a variation of the Phantom move in order to keep her play style similar to Toon Zelda, because TZ would obviously be a clone. It could even be possible that the Phantom Slash was conceived for Toon Zelda first before being tacked on to regular Zelda. That being said, Toon Zelda isn't a character they would reveal before the game's release, just like Toon Link. That makes me feel more and more confident in her inclusion as the days pass without any word on a sixth Zelda representative.

Since I don't find a Zelda newcomer nearly as likely as other people, I guess I can't agree on how the opinion that a Zelda newcomer not being released yet means there may be sixth hidden past release, and that sixth is going be Toon Link over Ghirahim or Impa. I, personally, am adamant in the belief that there won't be a sixth at all (I will humbly admit that this probably some bias here on my part)

Tell that to every Zelda main that played as her in the Demo. According to them, Zelda's Smash Attacks have been weakened, and some of her moves are a little slower. Like I said, they did the same to Marth for Lucina. There's no reason to think that they wouldn't do the same to Zelda for Toon Zelda.

I'm not saying that Zelda has been completely nerfed. I even mentioned a few days ago not to be too hard on Zelda because she still could receive a few more buffs for the actual version of Smash. It just seems to me that they're tweaking some of her moves to get ready for another variation. They gave Din's Fire a sweet spot in the core for a potential K.O., but the outside of the sphere doesn't seem to be as strong as it used to be. They could have given Toon Zelda's variation of that move a more even damage ratio, but taken away the sweet spot. Almost like Link's and Toon Link's bombs. Link's bomb causes more damage, but has a smaller blast zone. Toon Link's bomb has a larger blast zone, but the bombs ultimately do less damage.

Oh, I am well aware of Zelda's apparent shortcomings from the Demo (that's what happens when you get rid of her best move; Transformation! ). I'm just not confident that tweaked moves, for better or for worse, can even be used as evidence to point to a possible variant clone moveset when it could easily be used for balance reasons (even if they're failing at it).

I mean, Sakurai flat out said that Varia Suit Samus was one of the best characters in the game, yet some professional Smash players (like HugS) vehemently disagrees. On first glance, Zelda may be turning out bad, but I don't believe it automatically points to another variant of her moveset to be the cause of these nerfs and changes. They could just be failing to balance her properly.

I disagree. There's a very particular way that they choose characters to be playable in Smash. They have to be relevant enough to their franchise to be considered. The characters don't always have to be in every game in their franchise, but they have to represent something special about their franchise. Such as Sheik, who represents a completely different version of Zelda, along with the most critically acclaimed game of all time. Robin represents a big part of what the Fire Emblem series is about besides the swordsmen. I could go into a big discussion about this, and I have a few times before, but I'll save going into that again for another time.

The more brief version of what I'm saying is that every character chosen to be playable in Smash are the perfect picks to represent their franchise. They don't pick characters to represent a big franchise that aren't very recognizable or don't play a big role in the franchise. My example for Toon Zelda: Her art style has been used in about a third of the games in the Zelda franchise. Her art style has stuck around to this day. If she was considered back then, she'll more than likely get considered again because she's relevant to her franchise more so than most Zelda characters are, which makes the character more recognizable. That's why she was the one being considered back then in the first place.

We'll probably have to disagree here too, because further argument on this point will devolve into an argument of what "merit's" a character's playable status or not (which will resolve in both of us arguing arbitrary terms and definitions), which I've always argued isn't nearly as black and white as some people think and will be completely subjective on both of our ends. To post a few examples though, I don't personally believe Greninja was a good pick for Pokemon, or for Gen 6 in general (in fact, I believe a Gen 6 Pokemon wasn't necessary). And I don't believe Rosalina was picked to represent "Galaxy" or even Mario, but was an excuse for Sakurai to have a proper Puppeteer Fighter and introduce a new fighting playstyle to the table.

"If she was considered back then, she'll more than likely get considered again because she's relevant to her franchise more so than most Zelda characters are, which makes the character more recognizable"

Can't the reverse also apply too? If Toon Zelda was considered/planned but ultimately cut, what makes you think Sakurai will even revisit the idea again? It's possible he could change his mind and try again, but he could have also concluded that such an inclusion wasn't worth it. He could consider Toon Zelda again, but he could also decide against her again.

---

Overall, I wouldn't say that Toon Zelda will never get in, but I still only find her being planned for Brawl the only real concrete evidence that she still has a small shot in this game. Everything else, to me, doesn't seem to point to her anymore then other characters. For example, I think characters like Dark Pit and Ridley are more likely just on virtue that they've been ambiguously alluded and hinted to in some way. I think Toon Zelda, like most of the remaining Zelda characters, are very much in the air.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

So what do you think the next trailer will be:

DK Trailer
Villains Trailer
Star Fox Trailer
LoZ Trailer
Or none of the above?

DK Trailer and Villains Trailer are the most likely to happen. Then again, we all expected Shulk last time and we got Lucina and Robin instead.

 

[Scamper52596]

Haha, fair enough about the Spirit Track stage. I had actually completely forgotten about that

Also, I think you misunderstood my point on marketing. Before, you seemed to be insinuating that Toon Zelda would be used to market Wind Waker HD:

"She could also be used to market the Wind Waker HD. If the Wii U version gets a Wind Waker stage, Toon Zelda could be there to represent a Zelda stage on both versions."

But I'm wondering is how is this evidence, when Toon Link can already meet these criteria? He himself already advertises Wind Waker HD and Spirit Tracks, so why would they need to use Toon Zelda for the same thing? That's why I'm saying she has little to no marketing potential; I think the ship has long since sailed for it. If Toon Zelda gets in, I speculate marketing wouldn't play a factor into it.

I find it to be evidence, or at least helps her chances, due to the fact that they're picking a lot of characters to help market recent games. You're right; Toon Link could perfectly market the Wind Waker HD and Spirit Tracks by himself, but if the developers had the chance to create an easy to make character that would further help market those games, especially Wind Waker, I think they would jump on it. Someone might think to themselves, "Oh, I can play the game that these characters are from on this console?" It's not something that has to be done, but it definitely helps drive the point across.

Since I don't find a Zelda newcomer nearly as likely as other people, I guess I can't agree on how the opinion that a Zelda newcomer not being released yet means there may be sixth hidden past release, and that sixth is going be Toon Link over Ghirahim or Impa. I, personally, am adamant in the belief that there won't be a sixth at all (I will humbly admit that this probably some bias here on my part)

That's fine. Many don't believe we'll get a sixth. At least you're not biased towards a Zelda newcomer. Between you and me, I find it fascinating how much people will claim their favorite character is the most likely to make it into Smash when there's nothing that character has going for them. I believe that there will be a sixth Zelda character because we only got a replacement in Brawl, and I believe Mewtwo is likely to return, bringing the Pokemon roster up to six. That also means I believe Mario will get a sixth, be it Paper Mario or someone else. I have high expectations, I know.

Oh, I am well aware of Zelda's apparent shortcomings from the Demo (that's what happens when you get rid of her best move; Transformation! ). I'm just not confident that tweaked moves, for better or for worse, can even be used as evidence to point to a possible variant clone moveset when it could easily be used for balance reasons (even if they're failing at it).

And you could easily be correct. It's just that I've really only heard Marth and Zelda getting slack since E3, and I'm just trying my best to put two and two together. I wasn't really all that happy when they removed transformations. I thought that gimmick brought an interesting way of playing. Made it difficult for your opponent to get accustomed to your play style when you switch characters half way through.

We'll probably have to disagree here too, because further argument on this point will devolve into an argument of what "merit's" a character's playable status or not (which will resolve in both of us arguing arbitrary terms and definitions), which I've always argued isn't nearly as black and white as some people think and will be completely subjective on both of our ends. To post a few examples though, I don't personally believe Greninja was a good pick for Pokemon, or for Gen 6 in general (in fact, I believe a Gen 6 Pokemon wasn't necessary). And I don't believe Rosalina was picked to represent "Galaxy" or even Mario, but was an excuse for Sakurai to have a proper Puppeteer Fighter and introduce a new fighting playstyle to the table.

Ah, yeah. For me, I realize that they've always picked the one most popular Pokemon at the time when adding a new one to the roster ever since 64. That's just how they represent Pokemon, while marketing their most recent game, movie, or what have you. I think it works. It gets the Pokemon fans who are purchasing every latest installment interested in playing a Pokemon from that game in Smash.

I'm one to believe that since Rosalina has stuck around after Galaxy is the reason that she's in Smash. If she was only present in the Galaxy titles, and nothing else, I don't believe she would be on the roster. Like I said, a character has to be relevant enough to their franchise to be playable, and I think Rosalina has earned it. Especially after being playable in 3D World. Different way of thinking though.

"If she was considered back then, she'll more than likely get considered again because she's relevant to her franchise more so than most Zelda characters are, which makes the character more recognizable"

Can't the reverse also apply too? If Toon Zelda was considered/planned but ultimately cut, what makes you think Sakurai will even revisit the idea again? It's possible he could change his mind and try again, but he could have also concluded that such an inclusion wasn't worth it. He could consider Toon Zelda again, but he could also decide against her again.

I believe that she was cut due to time constraints, and nothing else. Even though she was a clone, she was going to be a transformation character as well. That in itself would have taken more time to create. I think if Brawl had four or five more months of development time, she would have been on the roster. I think that Sakurai would revisit the idea of adding her due to what I said before; she's more than capable of representing the Zelda franchise. Especially since Spirit Tracks, the Four Swords Anniversary Edition, and Wind Waker HD have all released since Brawl, further expanding her presence in the Zelda universe.

Overall, I wouldn't say that Toon Zelda will never get in, but I still only find her being planned for Brawl the only real concrete evidence that she still has a small shot in this game. Everything else, to me, doesn't seem to point to her anymore then other characters. For example, I think characters like Dark Pit and Ridley are more likely just on virtue that they've been ambiguously alluded and hinted to in some way. I think Toon Zelda, like most of the remaining Zelda characters, are very much in the air.

Then I guess we're back to square one. Haha. That's alright. We'll just see what happens soon enough. I've very much enjoyed discussing this subject with you. It's not often that a controversial character such as Toon Zelda can be talked about in a civilized manner like this.

 

[mark welford]

I want to start a smash story thread where you guys come up with battles but there will be rules

 

[Masonomace]

I want to start a smash story thread where you guys come up with battles but there will be rules

Sorry Mark I already play RPG's enough, I don't feel the need for speed. Also wearing a sonic t-shirt that says, "you're too slow!"

One day closer. . . .'till something hypothetically amazing may happen.

 

[mark welford]

it not a RPG you come up with battle scenarios with characters

Sorry Mark I already play RPG's enough, I don't feel the need for speed. Also wearing a sonic t-shirt that says, "you're too slow!"

One day closer. . . .'till something hypothetically amazing may happen.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Krystal, Isaac, K Rool, Ridley,
Dixie, Banjo, Skull Kid, Bowser Junior

I love the Kirby Hats!

I feel like that this is actually a reason to NOT include K. Rool. Excuse me whilst I vomit internally.

Seriously though, if K. Rool is in please for the love of all that is holy Kirby, just wear the fricking crown.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I feel like that this is actually a reason to NOT include K. Rool. Excuse me whilst I vomit internally.

Seriously though, if K. Rool is in please for the love of all that is holy Kirby, just wear the fricking crown.

Kirby never got Rosalina's hair when he copied her, so it's safe to say that if Kirby copied K. Rool, he'd only get his crown as well.

 

[Bowserlick]

Kirby with the King K. Rool eye tic would be amazing. Do it.

 

[ElPanandero]

Alright so I tweaked and fixed my roster (added in lucina) and messed around with rows instead of collumns because I'm a bad***




And once more, for people who hate my dreams:
Shuckle=Mewtwo
Black Knight=Shulk
Salesman= Ganon or Impa (But actually Ganon)
Bomberman can be Snake if you must
Alph is an Olimar semi-clone
Had a lot of trouble figuring out who to put in Alice's spot, since she's kind of a retro she'd belong in the retro row, but I didn't want to put one new IP by itself, but couldn't find a Wario or Yoshi character I could get behind (except Waluigi ) so I picked Alice since she has remake on the gameboy she fits in between retro and IP and gets her own spot Also really reluctant to add Chorus dudes, only did because sound based movesets are dope sounding, I'm kind of disappointed that after Issac and Chibi there's not a lot of characters that even have a 5% of ever getting in that I'd be excited for outside a handful of retros

Now If i missed anybody again I'm gonna explode

 

[Masonomace]

@ ElPanandero
Hmmm. . .you may have missed my previous roster rating so I'll share it here:
After consulting with myself many times. . .because I have 7 different personalities like Shinobu Sensui I've come to a critique rating:
out of 10 HYESZ!
You're roster consisted of at least 18 brand newcomers & therefore received a far above average vote. Thanks for Posting~

 

[ElPanandero]

@ ElPanandero
Hmmm. . .you may have missed my previous roster rating so I'll share it here:
After consulting with myself many times. . .because I have 7 different personalities like Shinobu Sensui I've come to a critique rating:
out of 10 HYESZ!
You're roster consisted of at least 18 brand newcomers & therefore received a far above average vote. Thanks for Posting~

Haha I remember, I mostly just wanted to clean it up, add lucina (and the black knight) and see what it looked like in rows instead

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I have never hated a character considered for inclusion more than I currently despise Shulk. I wish to high heaven that we had never gotten that godforsaken "leak".



Most of the people I've seen who have played Zelda multiple times have come away with the opposite impression. She's not nerfed, she's just refocused. She has some incredibly powerful attacks now (like Farore's Wind), but they are very different from her old strengths. So players who jump in to play Zelda come out saying "oh, she's nerfed" because they can't play her the way she used to play. But apparently, if you get the hang of the shift in playstyle, she's actually pretty powerful.

Shulk was a highly requested character before the leak even happened. Not sure why you would hate him either. He's one of the most unique options for a newcomer.

 

[Joe D.]

One thing I have and I'm sure you guys have done too at one time or another is ponder the meaning of smash. What is the meaning of smash? I cant tell you that but one thing I can tell you is my meaning of the logo. My meaning of the logo is boundaries of different universes being shattered, paths being fated yet unintentionally crossed. Heroes and villains alike clash with unfamiliar faces in strange places they do not call home. Heroes clash with heroes or villains of another universe whose paths were destined yet unintentionally crossed in the world called smash.

The real question is: How can Smash be real, if our eyes aren't real?

Spoiler

 

[Masonomace]

The real question is: How can Smash be real, if our eyes aren't real?

Real eyes realize?
<Nailed it.
Also like that goku image earlier, could I ask a favor & say putting that large image in a spoiler? Sry but ty

 

[Hong]

Also like that goku image earlier, could I ask a favor & say putting that large image in a spoiler? Sry but ty

@ Joe D.

You would be advised to heed this advice. I'm all for images and emoticons to express oneself, but when it's like 6 posts in length and doesn't really say anything, it's a bit excessive.

 

[Joe D.]

@ Joe D.

You would be advised to heed this advice. I'm all for images and emoticons to express oneself, but when it's like 6 posts in length and doesn't really say anything, it's a bit excessive.

I didn't even realize how big it was until I just looked.

My apologies, and could you tell me how to put a spoiler tag on it?

 

[J04KlM]

This is something that has been on my mind for a while now, i thought i'd share it with all of you.

NOTE: This is all purely speculation, i am not saying i believe in pattens. This is my idea of what the result would be IF we do get another pattern.

FROM

TO

14 more characters (64: 12 characters, Melee: 26 characters)​

FROM MELEE TO

​

13 more characters (Melee: 26 characters, Brawl: 39 characters)​

The number of roster increase decreases by 1 each installment, if this pattern were to repeat we'd get:

FROM BRAWL TO

​

12 more characters (Brawl: 39 characters, Wii U & 3DS: 51 characters)
​

Confirmed Characters: 37

Confirmed Newcomers: 11

Non-confirmed Veterans: 17

Deconfirmed Veterans: 2 (/)

Veterans who will not return: 4 ()

37+17-2-4 = 48, making room for 3 more newcomers. 14 newcomers in total. (This could indicate why Sakurai said we're "nearing the bottom" of newcomer trailers)

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros Veterans

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros Melee Veterans

Spoiler: Super Smash Bros Brawl Veterans

There is the slight chance more veterans will not return, like Snake and Lucas. Which would leave room for even more newcomers. But for now they are listed with the other non-confirmed veterans because we've had no valid deconfirmation of them yet.

Roy, Pichu, Young Link and Dr. Mario are not returning for obvious reasons. Dr. Mario could still make it back as a costume for Mario, but zero chance as a standalone character. I did not list Mewtwo with them because he still actually has a chance, he's very relevant with recent Pokémon games and animation and Sakurai has even straight out said he's "thinking" about including Mewtwo in the game.

Pokémon Trainer has been deconfirmed, pretty garuanteed after April's Smash Direct when it was stated "character transformation and switching during matches" is no longer a thing.

Tell me what you guys think of my theory.

 

[Hong]

I didn't even realize how big it was until I just looked.

My apologies, and could you tell me how to put a spoiler tag on it?

You have two tags you will have to manually type.

Put [spoiler] before your content, and [/spoiler] after your content.

[spoiler]IMAGE HERE[/spoiler] will look like:

Spoiler

IMAGE HERE

You can also do [ collapse ], instead.

 

[Joe D.]

You have two tags you will have to manually type.

Put [spoiler] before your content, and [/spoiler] after your content.

[spoiler]IMAGE HERE[/spoiler] will look like:

Spoiler

IMAGE HERE

You can also do [ collapse ], instead.

All fixed. Thank you!

Now, about that Potd.... Does this mean that characters could have different weapons?

 

[mahnamahna]

Understand that the next Smash game will be 6-10 years from now and there will most likely be a plethora of new Nintendo IPs released during that time and the main characters of those IPs will most likely be priority over Ridley (who appears to be a staple BOSS in the series) and K Rool (who isn't even relevant in the DK series anymore). Mewtwo would be the most likely to return but then again Pokemon will probably be at Gen 9 around that time so who knows what Pokemon could be insanely popular then. Basically the point is if they don't become playable in this installment of the series...then they never will be.

Mewtwo I agree with... but plenty of irrelevant, retro characters have been brought back for Smash. By SSB5, Issac, Chibi-Robo, Takamaru and Lip are the only four glaring omissions that would have to be fixed. One new Pokemon and a new FE rep. Still 4-6 slots. How many new series could get a rep before Ridley or K. Rool?

K. Rool probably does have to be added this game, but Ridley's iconic enough and has enough Smash history that if he isn't included this time, he'd probably be the hype newcomer for SSB5. If he isn't, then I gotta wonder what Nintendo's thinking.

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

I would love Shovel Knight, actually.

Oh....

and are virtually guaranteed. But I'm worried about .

You should not worry about Wolf. Villains? Yeah, Wolf is a guarantee. I worried about Falco, however, Krystal should get his spot.

 

[Masonomace]

@ J04KlM
This theory of yours is something I did on my own time once, basically the exact same process & outlook as yours. This is steadily a main reason I give people on here posting their roster predictions an above decent score for just having 18+ newcomer characters. So yeah I think your theory is above decent aside from the speculation & variables with all that.
However I find your post very bold saying this:

Veterans who will not return: 4 ()

This while it is likely to say, it's not guaranteed that they're totally de-confirmed 100% when you're implying through every possible way to get them in the game through DLC, alternate costume, or a playable slot. If you meant by not returning as characters in slots within the roster, then I'm A okay with that. Oh & when you say this:

Confirmed Characters: 37

Confirmed Newcomers: 11

By these numbers you probably forgot to remember that Mii Fighters is plural & make that number 39 confirmed characters, because Mii Gunner, Mii Brawler, & Mii Swordsman are all different playable characters. Which would make the confirmed Newcomers value be 13 instead of 11. For now that's all I got to reply to ya. Thanks for Posting~

 

[saggernaut724]

I very highly doubt that the Mii Fighters are going to occupy separate slots. There are three different classes, and my guess is that they'll either occupy one slot and simply be customizable, or they'll occupy one slot and you can pick a class at the bottom (a la choosing Pokémon Trainer's opening Pokémon), where it displays all four players' characters.

 

[Maxilian]

You should not worry about Wolf. Villains? Yeah, Wolf is a guarantee. I worried about Falco, however, Krystal should get his spot.

Actually i'm not worried about Falco either, i'm pretty sure Falco and Wolf are comming back, but the one who i think may not come back is and i still have some hope of getting (i know it won't happen but still)

I very highly doubt that the Mii Fighters are going to occupy separate slots. There are three different classes, and my guess is that they'll either occupy one slot and simply be customizable, or they'll occupy one slot and you can pick a class at the bottom (a la choosing Pokémon Trainer's opening Pokémon), where it displays all four players' characters.

As far as i know, Nintendo already said that the Mii Figthers will take only 1 slot, but that doesn't change anything in these case, cause @@J04KlM is counting the Pokemon Trainer as 3 character even if they take only 1 slot, so the Mii Figthers should be seen as 3 characters too

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

I very highly doubt that the Mii Fighters are going to occupy separate slots. There are three different classes, and my guess is that they'll either occupy one slot and simply be customizable, or they'll occupy one slot and you can pick a class at the bottom (a la choosing Pokémon Trainer's opening Pokémon), where it displays all four players' characters.

They will take the same slot, the three of them, but they are different characters anyway, just like Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard were back in Brawl. Sakurai always considered the three of them, plus Sheik and Zero Suit Samus different characters, and that's why we always say there were 39 characters in Brawl instead of the 35 slots we had.

And the only characters I can see being cut are Snake and Lucas, the former having less chances of staying. I see the rest of them returning.

 

[Masonomace]

Sup @ Maxilian
Also, what Maxilian said, about the 3-in-1 package bundle slot comment. That's where I meant to go with that.

 

[saggernaut724]

Sup @ Maxilian
Also, what Maxilian said, about the 3-in-1 package bundle slot comment. That's where I meant to go with that.

Yeah, I realized only after I posted the reply that that was probably what you meant. I should've re-read. Sorry, my bad.

 

[Masonomace]

Yeah, I realized only after I posted the reply that that was probably what you meant. I should've re-read. Sorry, my bad.

Nope, it's my bad. Sorry but thank you.

Anyone thinking this wekend may have a twitter announcement for a direct? It'd have to be today as the latest ofc, but I had some good vibe Friday. It's not looking so decent atm.

 

[saggernaut724]

Nope, it's my bad. Sorry but thank you.

Anyone thinking this wekend may have a twitter announcement for a direct? It'd have to be today as the latest ofc, but I had some good vibe Friday. It's not looking so decent atm.

I've had that feeling all week. Wednesday was already fruitful, but I feel that there's more coming our way.