Character Discussion Thread

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

Anyone thinking this wekend may have a twitter announcement for a direct? It'd have to be today as the latest ofc, but I had some good vibe Friday. It's not looking so decent atm.

In fact I'm expecting they'll announce something tomorrow for next Monday. If they don't, I'm sure we'll get a Direct next week anyways.

 

[Masonomace]

In fact I'm expecting they'll announce something tomorrow for next Monday. If they don't, I'm sure we'll get a Direct next week anyways.

I dig it. I like changing the subject because your avatar reminds me of Harvey Birdman crossover with Captain Falcon. Said it again wondering if you saw it already.

I also want that villain trailer to announce all the hype-worthy villains we're thinking about, but I'm thinking about Black Shadow / Blood Falcon.

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

I dig it. I like changing the subject because your avatar reminds me of Harvey Birdman crossover with Captain Falcon. Said it again wondering if you saw it already.

It's actually Handsome Jack, from Borderlands 2. I just photoshopped Captain Falcon's helmet over some fanart I found :3

 

[Maxilian]

I dig it. I like changing the subject because your avatar reminds me of Harvey Birdman crossover with Captain Falcon. Said it again wondering if you saw it already.

I also want that villain trailer to announce all the hype-worthy villains we're thinking about, but I'm thinking about Black Shadow / Blood Falcon.

I would love to have Black Shadow but i really doubt it, i mostly think he would be nice because if we give Ganondorf a new moveset, you could simple take his old moveset and give it to Black Shadow and you will make everyone happy:

1- The Zelda fans will be happy cause Ganondorf won't be anymore a clone (Falcondorf)

2- F-zero fans would be happy cause we finally got another F-zero character

3- Players that used Ganondorf in Brawl would still have a character that plays the way they like it

 

[Capt. Butt Stallion]

I would love to have Black Shadow but i really doubt it, i mostly think he would be nice because if we give Ganondorf a new moveset, you could simple take his old moveset and give it to Black Shadow and you will make everyone happy:

1- The Zelda fans will be happy cause Ganondorf won't be anymore a clone (Falcondorf)

2- F-zero fans would be happy cause we finally got another F-zero character

3- Players that used Ganondorf in Brawl would still have a character that plays the way they like it

This would be the best way to handle Black Shadow, if you ask me.

I think Blood Falcon should be a full fledged alt for Falcon this time around, not just changing the color and the drawing on the back to look similar, but adding the skulls and all to the model.

 

[Masonomace]

I would love to have Black Shadow but i really doubt it, i mostly think he would be nice because if we give Ganondorf a new moveset, you could simple take his old moveset and give it to Black Shadow and you will make everyone happy:

1- The Zelda fans will be happy cause Ganondorf won't be anymore a clone (Falcondorf)

2- F-zero fans would be happy cause we finally got another F-zero character

3- Players that used Ganondorf in Brawl would still have a character that plays the way they like it

Your list in numbers makes me feel that numbered list was sorted by importance first then #3 being the least important. You're sneaky but no swiping Maxi.

This would be the best way to handle Black Shadow, if you ask me.

I think Blood Falcon should be a full fledged alt for Falcon this time around, not just changing the color and the drawing on the back to look similar, but adding the skulls and all to the model.

For fun facts, Blood Falcon is getting little by little more appealing to resemble himself rather than be a red-color palette Falcon as each game goes by. I posted it somewhere on the Blood Falcon support thread. .

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

Actually i'm not worried about Falco either, i'm pretty sure Falco and Wolf are comming back, but the one who i think may not come back is and i still have some hope of getting (i know it won't happen but still)

Lucas could be replaced with Claus.

 

[Masonomace]

Lucas could be replaced with Claus.

I can actually see Claus getting the "Sticker to AT treatment" status.
*Broken Record*
Sakurai did say that he wanted to put in as many Assist Trophies as he possibly could.

So I'm not sure about character replacement at this late stage of Smash Bros.'s 4th installment.

 

[Maxilian]

Lucas could be replaced with Claus.

Wasn't Claus shown as a AT?

 

[Masonomace]

Wasn't Claus shown as a AT?

Nope, as far as the Assist Trophy direct video goes. Unless someone mentioned seeing him in the Sm4sh demo?!

Edit: Shadow the Hedgehog was shown that way in the demo, confirming him. I'm gonna go ahead & say Claus hasn't been confirmed anything yet.

 

[FalcoPaunch!121]

I can actually see Claus getting the "Sticker to AT treatment" status.
*Broken Record*
Sakurai did say that he wanted to put in as many Assist Trophies as he possibly could.

So I'm not sure about character replacement at this late stage of Smash Bros.'s 4th installment.

That could make sense.

Wasn't Claus shown as a AT?

Don't think so... but maybe porky could be something other than a boss???no? ok.

Does anyone think Maxwell from Scribblenauts will be playable? He has a good chance. Two recent games (one on 3DS, one on Wii U), a diverse moveset, and could replace all retros on peoples roster. What do you guys think?

 

[Masonomace]

Does anyone think Maxwell from Scribblenauts will be playable? He has a good chance. Two recent games (one on 3DS, one on Wii U), a diverse moveset, and could replace all retros on peoples roster. What do you guys think?

This is one discussion I cannot join in due to not knowing my MU, being Maxwell. However 40 brothers & only 1 sister sounds painful.

Edit: Gonna go with the WiiU game design in Scribblenauts: Unlimited for his appearance. . .kinda doesn't matter comparing the looks of the concept art between the games.

 

[Skyblade12]

Shulk was a highly requested character before the leak even happened. Not sure why you would hate him either. He's one of the most unique options for a newcomer.

Because, since the leak, Shulk has shown up as an "all but confirmed" character in every single thread discussing newcomers. I don't care about people being happy about their character getting in, but there's still no evidence that Shulk is in game. That attitude, that blasé listing of every upcoming newcomers trailer ending with "oh, and Shulk" has really, really outworn its welcome. It has made me despise Shulk as a character, and it's made me hate Xenoblade Chronicles as well.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Because, since the leak, Shulk has shown up as an "all but confirmed" character in every single thread discussing newcomers. I don't care about people being happy about their character getting in, but there's still no evidence that Shulk is in game. That attitude, that blasé listing of every upcoming newcomers trailer ending with "oh, and Shulk" has really, really outworn its welcome. It has made me despise Shulk as a character, and it's made me hate Xenoblade Chronicles as well.

That seems silly to hate the character rather than the people who add him like that. Shulk isn't the one placing himself on everyone's roster. It's the people who add him because they feel obligated. Which is stupid.

 

[Skyblade12]

That seems silly to hate the character rather than the people who add him like that. Shulk isn't the one placing himself on everyone's roster. It's the people who add him because they feel obligated. Which is stupid.

It is silly. It's irrational. It doesn't make sense to hate a character I don't know or a game I haven't played because of the fans. It's downright idiotic to not play a game I own because of the fanbase. Emotions are rarely fully rational. Shulk's name being tied to this has directed a lot of the hate to him, and it is completely unfair.

Hopefully in a while that hate will die down and I'll be able to enjoy the game.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It is silly. It's irrational. It doesn't make sense to hate a character I don't know or a game I haven't played because of the fans. It's downright idiotic to not play a game I own because of the fanbase. Emotions are rarely fully rational. Shulk's name being tied to this has directed a lot of the hate to him, and it is completely unfair.

Hopefully in a while that hate will die down and I'll be able to enjoy the game.

Believe me, once the roster gets leaked and speculation ends, I think you're really going to like him. I'm a huge fan of the character, and I'm pretty sure he's in (gut feeling). It will be a buttload more fun to talk about the game afterwards, I'm sure.

 

[Zhadgon]

Tokuro Fujiwara is the creator of Mega Man, not Keiji Inafune

I thought that Inafune was the one making the decisions and put more direction in Mega Man than Fujiwara.

.n_n.

 

[Masonomace]

@ J04KlM
Btw, the one thing I did differently to your theory was this:
12 original Smash 64 characters = 12 newcomers <--- This is the starting change.
26 SSBMelee characters = 14
39 SSBBrawl characters = 13

Cuts from Melee to Brawl: 5
Estimate cuts from Brawl to SSB4: 2+

Take in factor of treating 5 losses as more effort to regain throughout the games, you'd need at least 18+ characters to add to SSB4's roster to nullify the negative Melee cuts. Including the estimated cuts amount from Brawl being 2+ cuts from speculation you'd need 20+ newcomers to balance out the equilibrium. Currently there's 13 current Sm4sh newcomers right now so we'd need an estimate of 7+ more newcomers right now to make this game excellently worthy of a Smash title. And 7 newcomers is a wonderful number for borderline hype especially when those 7 can be any 7 hype-worthy characters.

 

[J04KlM]

@ J04KlM
This while it is likely to say, it's not guaranteed that they're totally de-confirmed 100% when you're implying through every possible way to get them in the game through DLC, alternate costume, or a playable slot. If you meant by not returning as characters in slots within the roster, then I'm A okay with that.

That is what i meant, i did say Dr. Mario still has a chance of coming back as a costume for Mario. As for Roy he is a candidate on my list for DLC characters. Pichu and Young Link are pretty garuanteed to not coming back, unless they somehow are costumes or DLC as well.

@ J04KlM
By these numbers you probably forgot to remember that Mii Fighters is plural & make that number 39 confirmed characters, because Mii Gunner, Mii Brawler, & Mii Swordsman are all different playable characters. Which would make the confirmed Newcomers value be 13 instead of 11. For now that's all I got to reply to ya. Thanks for Posting~

It's true that the 3 Mii classes have different unique movesets, in that regard we do have 13 newcomers and 39 overall characters. But i believe we'll see the Mii Fighters in one slot together. And they're not exactly the same case as the Pokémon Trainer trio in Brawl, as they were completely different models, had different voice clips and such. The Mii fighters are still one character when you think about it, just with multiple movesets. Sort of like Palutena.

 

[Joe D.]

No character is, "locked," by any means, but I still think that Shulk has an incredibly high chance of inclusion.

Everything is in his favor at this point.

 

[Morbi]

No character is, "locked," by any means, but I still think that Shulk has an incredibly high chance of inclusion.

Everything is in his favor at this point.

At this point, about a month before release, objectively speaking, every character on the roster is "locked."

I do agree that Shulk has a lot of merit; however, I also agree with the Shulk hater, he has minimal evidence in his favor. Dark Pit is the same way, I suppose. Albeit, there are quite a few subtle differences.

 

[Masonomace]

It's true that the 3 Mii classes have different unique movesets, in that regard we do have 13 newcomers and 39 overall characters. But i believe we'll see the Mii Fighters in one slot together. And they're not exactly the same case as the Pokémon Trainer trio in Brawl, as they were completely different models, had different voice clips and such. The Mii fighters are still one character when you think about it, just with multiple movesets. Sort of like Palutena.

Mii Fighters are confirmed to be in 1 slot, just 3 playable characters like Brawl PT yeah.
Wo-wait, Gun Sword & Brawler are the same character?
I'm just bustin ya chops.

 

[Skyblade12]

No character is, "locked," by any means, but I still think that Shulk has an incredibly high chance of inclusion.

Everything is in his favor at this point.

If by "everything" you mean "the Gematsu leak and nothing else", I agree. There is no official evidence of his inclusion, at all. And the second Gematsu leak is extremely tenuous.

 

[Joe D.]

I meant that he has a ton of merit in his favor. He's also a major demand all around the world, and has insane moveset potential.

There is no evidence for him in the game thus far, but Sakurai is also aware of his series- and his character.

 

[Skyblade12]

I meant that he has a ton of merit in his favor. He's also a major demand all around the world, and has insane moveset potential.

There is no evidence for him in the game thus far, but Sakurai is also aware of his series- and his character.

You can, unfortunately, say this for a lot of characters, many of whom we are probably not going to get.



So, if we assume for a minute that no characters are going to be cut for time, which characters from past games do you think are not going to make it in?

Pichu is probably gone (shame, he's our only Game Boy Color representative). As are Roy and Dr. Mario. Snake has been put on the chopping block a lot (understandably), as has Lucas, but we don't actually know with those two. Any others?

 

[Sage of Ice]

Does the Trophy Quiz theory still hold any water? It points to two of my characters and I think I'd fight a mountain lion to get just one.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Lucas could be replaced with Claus.

You could have a case for Kumatora, but Claus?

...Yeah. Not really.

 

[Skyblade12]

Does the Trophy Quiz theory still hold any water? It points to two of my characters and I think I'd fight a mountain lion to get just one.

I think it does have a lot of merit. It's certainly one of the biggest official teases we've gotten.

Just please tell me that your Legend of Zelda character is Impa, not Ghirahim.

 

[Sage of Ice]

I think it does have a lot of merit. It's certainly one of the biggest official teases we've gotten.

Just please tell me that your Legend of Zelda character is Impa, not Ghirahim.

Sorry to disappoint you! Why, what's so bad about him?

 

[Skyblade12]

Sorry to disappoint you! Why, what's so bad about him?

Nothing is really bad about him at all. I just don't see why he is so beloved (don't tell me, I haven't gotten that far, I only found a copy of Skyward Sword a couple weeks ago). And I think that Impa, as a character who appears many more times throughout the series, makes more sense. Plus, in Hyrule Warriors, I'm definitely enjoying Impa a lot more than Ghirahim thus far.

 

[Oz37]

Welp, here's another roster for you folks to turn your scrutiny upon. One of the DK reps can be replaced with a Rhythm Heaven character if you must cling to Gematsu, or Shulk can be replaced with a retro/Snake if you are dead-set against the "outdated/inaccurate/extraordinarily lucky" leak. Don't touch Isaac, though; he's the only thing on the unconfirmed roster that I am really invested in.

As for Dark Pit, I sincerely hope this won't instigate a discussion of him... but I really do think he's in. I re-watched all the trailers back to back this morning, and Dark Pit's teaser really screamed "playable" to me. It's my prediction that we're gonna find out that he got the "Lucina" treatment and was altered from an alt of Pit into a full character.

And Ridley... I honestly have no clue. I put him in because it's entirely possible, but I can so see him turning out to be a "hype" (by Sakurai's standards) stage boss. I'll be happy either way, but for now, let's say playable.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Nothing is really bad about him at all. I just don't see why he is so beloved (don't tell me, I haven't gotten that far, I only found a copy of Skyward Sword a couple weeks ago). And I think that Impa, as a character who appears many more times throughout the series, makes more sense. Plus, in Hyrule Warriors, I'm definitely enjoying Impa a lot more than Ghirahim thus far.

Right, fair enough. Impa's cool and if she gets in then more power to her, I just like Ghirahim better. He can do scary, funny, or just plain weird all in the space of a single scene. He just left more of an impression on me personally.

@ Oz37 : Minimal cuts, plus my top two characters? I like you.

 

[Spazzy_D]

If by "everything" you mean "the Gematsu leak and nothing else", I agree. There is no official evidence of his inclusion, at all. And the second Gematsu leak is extremely tenuous.

I mean sure, if you disregard the Tweets from Shulk's English AND Japanese voice actors.

Tenuous? Maybe. Still more then most potentials have.

By the way, glad Sakurai agreed with me on Megaman's custom moves. Would have been criminal not to include a few more robot master weapons.

 

[Skyblade12]

Welp, here's another roster for you folks to turn your scrutiny upon. One of the DK reps can be replaced with a Rhythm Heaven character if you must cling to Gematsu, or Shulk can be replaced with a retro/Snake if you are dead-set against the "outdated/inaccurate/extraordinarily lucky" leak. Don't touch Isaac, though; he's the only thing on the unconfirmed roster that I am really invested in.

As for Dark Pit, I sincerely hope this won't instigate a discussion of him... but I really do think he's in. I re-watched all the trailers back to back this morning, and Dark Pit's teaser really screamed "playable" to me. It's my prediction that we're gonna find out that he got the "Lucina" treatment and was altered from an alt of Pit into a full character.

And Ridley... I honestly have no clue. I put him in because it's entirely possible, but I can so see him turning out to be a "hype" (by Sakurai's standards) stage boss. I'll be happy either way, but for now, let's say playable.

I think Sakurai turning Dark Pit into a fully separate character would get a lot of backlash and cries of favoritism if we don't get a lot more clones.

I do like that you've included almost all of the older characters, including those we don't think are likely to come back. But where's Pichu?

 

[AncientTobacco]

But where's Pichu?

In Smash heaven.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Oz37
After taking a look at your roster, & reviewing it, I've finally come to a final decision. Let's see the results shall we?

Your raiting: out of 10 HYESZ!
Reason: Your list consisted of the bare minimum of 18+ brand newcomers, however this time around your roster hit exactly 20 exact newcomers, an extra Falcon head point rating worth noting, Thanks for Sharing~

 

[Oz37]

I think Sakurai turning Dark Pit into a fully separate character would get a lot of backlash and cries of favoritism if we don't get a lot more clones.

I do like that you've included almost all of the older characters, including those we don't think are likely to come back. But where's Pichu?

I could see us getting Lucina and Dark Pit as Falcon-esque clones, while Dixie and Isaac are semi-clones similar to Mario/Luigi and C.Falcon/Ganondorf. Dixie could easily build off of Diddy with variance in specials, while Isaac could work like Robin but without the degrading equipment. That should nicely fill the clone quota.

As for Pichu, feel free to put him in there in place of really anybody, I just think we're more likely to get Mewtwo for demand and Jigglypuff for history.

 

[Spazzy_D]

My biggest issues with Dark pit are:

1.) He looks EXACTLY like a Pit recolor. He would need some tweaking to stand out and would also need his own non-Pit recolors.

2.) He works best as a completely unique character and not a clone. He should probably use the Dark Pit Staff and not a bow and arrow, and he could be used to represent the weapon variety in Uprising the same way Palutena represents the special moves.

3.) I still think Medusa or Hades are better options.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Hopes/predictions for the roster:

I noticed that in all three previous games, about 1/3 of the roster is locked so I went with that: 37 starters and 18 unlocks for a total of 55. Maybe a little ambitious, but who knows.
"Blatant bias?" Whatever do you mean? Just 'cause it has all my favorites on it...

I already posted this in the Character Discussion thread because I couldn't find this one at first, heh ^w^ One new note, though: Shulk and the Chorus Men are on here because Gematsu's gotten too much right to just be full of it, but personally I'd just as soon switch them out for someone like Isaac or Sukapon or whatever.

 

[Oz37]

My biggest issues with Dark pit are:

1.) He looks EXACTLY like a Pit recolor. He would need some tweaking to stand out and would also need his own non-Pit recolors.

2.) He works best as a completely unique character and not a clone. He should probably use the Dark Pit Staff and not a bow and arrow, and he could be used to represent the weapon variety in Uprising the same way Palutena represents the special moves.

3.) I still think Medusa or Hades are better options.

I can't really disagree with anything you've said (though #3 is very subjective), but it doesn't change the fact that it may still happen. Imagine for a moment that he does have the same moveset, but his weapons are different. Like, a different bow (with red arrows? different firing speed/trajectory?), a different arm, and so forth. It's one of those things people will complain bitterly about but will eventually get over. Like Falco. And Ganondorf. Cuz everyone is totally over them being clones.