Character Discussion Thread

[dezeray112]

Now that there are 5 newcomer characters unveiled, how many more newcomers do you guys predict will be in the game?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Now that there are 5 newcomer characters unveiled, how many more newcomers do you guys predict will be in the game?

12-15.

 

[Morbi]

Now that there are 5 newcomer characters unveiled, how many more newcomers do you guys predict will be in the game?

I always predict that this Smash will entail a soft-cap of about 50 characters. Sakurai stated that 39 characters were feasible (40 counting Mewtwo, which I already consider to be "shoe-in" and thus in the game). So a 25% increase during the 4th installment is logical, correct? That would mean that we are to receive about 10 newcomers, if we already have 5, we have 5 more to go, that seems to be the common consensus.

 

[Kenith]

That may be your opinion, but I'd like to get as close to Sakurai's opinion as I can. And he DOES care about how many characters some franchises have. He's added characters partly because of that reason.

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible train of thought. So Sakurai's opinion is that bigger and more essential franchises get more characters? I'm sorry, but that is obviously not true.

Just by looking at Brawl's roster, it's clear characters themselves took way more priority over franchises or sales. While it's true bigger franchises got more characters, that's because their size and significance yields more iconic and recognizable characters.

Conversely, look at the smaller franchises. F-Zero and Yoshi, while being far more important to Nintendo than Earthbound, both received no new characters, because there were not characters that stood out enough to be playable. Same holds for Metroid, which technically didn't receive a new character.

The number of characters a franchise has doesn't matter. There's a limit for big series, sure, but not for smaller ones. And he has certainly never added characters to existing franchises to give them more recognition.

 

[Will]

If the game was coming out in December,I would expect atleast 4 more newcomers.

 

[Morbi]

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible train of thought. So Sakurai's opinion is that bigger and more essential franchises get more characters? I'm sorry, but that is obviously not true.

Just by looking at Brawl's roster, it's clear characters themselves took way more priority over franchises or sales. While it's true bigger franchises got more characters, that's because their size and significance yields more iconic and recognizable characters.

Conversely, look at the smaller franchises. F-Zero and Yoshi, while being far more important to Nintendo than Earthbound, both received no new characters, because there were not characters that stood out enough to be playable. Same holds for Metroid, which technically didn't receive a new character.

The number of characters a franchise has doesn't matter. There's a limit for big series, sure, but not for smaller ones. And he has certainly never added characters to existing franchises to give them more recognition.

I would honestly argue that the main antagonist of both F-Zero and Metroid stand out as popular, prominent, and prevalent characters to their given series. Sakurai even alluded to this notion by including them in the Melee opening cut-scene. So he isn't entirely oblivious to the notion that they are overt contenders, it isn't like they haven't also gotten important roles in the subsequent title, Brawl. That being said, Metroid actually did technically receive a new character, which makes the desire an F-Zero character more apparent.

 

[Kenith]

I would honestly argue that the main antagonist of both F-Zero and Metroid stand out as popular, prominent, and prevalent characters to their given series. Sakurai even alluded to this notion by including them in the Melee opening cut-scene. So he isn't entirely oblivious to the notion that they are overt contenders, it isn't like they haven't also gotten important roles in the subsequent title, Brawl. That being said, Metroid actually did technically receive a new character, which makes the desire an F-Zero character more apparent.

I'm looking at the term "character" from a actual standpoint rather than a technically standpoint. Technically, Metroid got another character. But it's actually just another form of a pre-existing character.

And from I know about F-Zero, there are no characters as fleshed-out or popular as Captain Falcon. He was planned to be a SNES icon, after all. Captain Falcon initially appears as just "one of the playable characters" in F-Zero and F-Zero X, but the entire story of GX revolves around him. Sure, there are other characters, but they act as Goroh does in Brawl: appear every now and then to give Capt trouble with no real depth to them.

 

[Will]

but they act as Goroh does in Brawl: appear every now and then to give Capt trouble with no real depth to them.

I agree with this. Especially when you used "real depth." The F-Zero villians is just something that is like a Goomba to Mario,but with a bigger role. There's not much of a backstory against them and Falcon. They're just your average villian with a goal,and a certain hero who stops them,then it just becomes a rivalry. Kind of like Wario in SML2.

Although,smash is lacking some villians,it wouldn't hurt the game to see what Sakurai could do to a villian like Black Shadow or Goroh,would it?

 

[Morbi]

I'm looking at the term "character" from a actual standpoint rather than a technically standpoint. Technically, Metroid got another character. But it's actually just another form of a pre-existing character.

And from I know about F-Zero, there are no characters as fleshed-out or popular as Captain Falcon. He was planned to be a SNES icon, after all. Captain Falcon initially appears as just "one of the playable characters" in F-Zero and F-Zero X, but the entire story of GX revolves around him. Sure, there are other characters, but they act as Goroh does in Brawl: appear every now and then to give Capt trouble with no real depth to them.

So Zelda only has 3 representatives?

Anyways, I didn't know that is what you meant. You literally stated that Metroid "technically" didn't get another character. So I wasn't aware that you were alluding "technically" as "actually."

Just kidding around. Anyways, I was mostly referring to Smash relevance. I don't really care about Nintendo relevance. It isn't what got Little Mac in the game (obvioulsy it was a factor, an aspect of his inclusion; however, the predominant reason he is in the game, the prominent reason he was wanted in the game, the overt reason he has the exposure necessary to procure demand is based on the notion that he was included in Brawl).

 

[Deleted member]

Those who say F-Zero characters have no depth have not read their backstories.

They've got more (untapped) depth than most Mario characters.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm going to take a guess and say we might get another 7 or 8 new characters after the five we've seen. 12 or 13 new characters seems kind of plausible to me. Which would be about as much as Melee added from 64.

Those who say F-Zero characters have no depth have not read their backstories.

They've got more (untapped) depth than most Mario characters.

Given how simple the Mario characters are made on purpose, I'm not sure if that's saying much. Regardless of that, I'm sure plenty of characters have enough personality to shine through in their games. And perhaps that can transition into Smash as well.

 

[Will]

But in all seriousness,I think Black Shadow or Goroh could use a shot. Mostly Black Shadow,though.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

This sounds about as provable as "The Big Eight"

I thought you were referring to the original 8 of Smash 64 at first... Then again, I guess it would be called "The Original Eight" instead of The Big Eight.
---

My spin-off categorization for Mario characters is weird.
I think Paper Mario and Fawful should have their own series symbols and be seen as spin-off characters since their games are quite different than the main Mario games, yet I don't think Dr. Mario/Luigi and Luigi's Mansion are big enough to be recognized as spin-off series in Smash yet.

I mean, I've seen rosters with King Boo alongside Wario as a spin-off character and it just seems odd.

----

 

[Kenith]

Those who say F-Zero characters have no depth have not read their backstories. They've got more (untapped) depth than most Mario characters.

Mario characters are never meant to be deep characters. They're mostly meant to be iconic.
What I meant to say is, deep, interesting back-stories don't mean much in a fighting game if they don't have moves or a recognizable look to go with it.
And most F-Zero characters lack these things. Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow are better off, but only to a certain extent.

So Zelda only has 3 representatives?
Just kidding around. Anyways, I was mostly referring to Smash relevance. I don't really care about Nintendo relevance. It isn't what got Little Mac in the game (obvioulsy it was a factor, an aspect of his inclusion; however, the predominant reason he is in the game, the prominent reason he was wanted in the game, the overt reason he has the exposure necessary to procure demand is based on the notion that he was included in Brawl).

Yes, Zelda only has three real characters, because those are the only significant ones appearing in many games.
I would say that Little Mac is plenty relevant to Nintendo. Maybe not as a franchise, but the series is a classic one. And Little Mac, clearly embodying what makes Punch-Out so memorable, is a perfect candidate for this game.

 

[Will]

Yes, Zelda only has three real characters

So the other one is fake?

 

[Deleted member]

Mario characters are never meant to be deep characters. They're mostly meant to be iconic.
What I meant to say is, deep, interesting back-stories don't mean much in a fighting game if they don't have moves or a recognizable look to go with it.
And most F-Zero characters lack these things. Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow are better off, but only to a certain extent.

Well then, I guess Black Shadow being stated to have black magic in F-Zero X and actually being shown to have such ability in F-Zero GX's story makes him all the more better.
As compared to Falcon himself, who is just a normal guy in his home series. A badass bounty hunter and racer, but a normal guy regardless.

 

[Kenith]

Well then, I guess Black Shadow stated to have black magic and actually being shown to have such ability in F-Zero GX's story makes him all the more better.
As compared to Falcon himself, who is just a normal guy in his home series.

Well, Captain Falcon has a lot of other assets, like his macho-man, never say die attitude that is perfect for brawny male superheroes. He's pretty much a walking amalgamation of superhero stereotypes.

Like I said, Black Shadow and Samurai Goroh and the most interesting of the F-Zero choices, and if we get an F-Zero character after Falcon, it's definitely one of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Or Black Goroh/Samurai Shadow.

 

[Kenith]

After reading back a page, UltimateWario has once again restored my faith in humanity.

I think his Assist Trophy fits Tingle pretty perfectly, to be honest. Annoying and useless.

Wonderful.

 

[Deleted member]

If it weren't for the fact that what Tingle does as an Assist is perfect, I'd argue against his status as an Assist being more fitting than him being playable.

 

[Kenith]

I've never liked him, but the biggest reason I don't support him...is the other Zelda characters he would interfere with.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty much the reason you don't support him is because you support other characters, and he's major competition.

EDIT: Even though there's not really that many that are heavyweights in the competition in the first place.

 

[Kenith]

Pretty much the reason you don't support him is because you support other characters, and he's major competition.
EDIT: Even though there's not really that many that are heavyweights in the competition in the first place.

Yep! I'm partly kidding of course, I actually don't like him as a character, and many would agree with me! Lol.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I'm tingly for Ghirahim.

 

[Zhadgon]

I think we still have 4 new comers to be revealed:

1 in april
3 in june E3

If we are expecting SSB4 to be in July.

Plus 3 more super secret characters.

Any thoughts?

.n_n.

 

[Kenith]

Speaking of Zelda characters, I think I've reached the golden standard for my Roster, it's perfect in my eyes.
That being said, I want to include a one-time Zelda character but I have no idea which one.

So, do you guys think Ghirahim or Midna is more likely? Who is a better character? nb4 "Neither".

I think Ghirahim has a slightly stronger chnace, but I've been favoring Midna as of late because she has a lot of moveset potential.

 

[Shorts]

If it weren't for the fact that what Tingle does as an Assist is perfect, I'd argue against his status as an Assist being more fitting than him being playable.

Some would say Rosalina was the perfect assist.

Also, we're not getting any one time zelda guys, so that leaves tingle and toon zelda. If tingle isnt chosen, I would rather no one be chosen and we get, say, shulk. Or, Bandana dee.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Speaking of Zelda characters, I think I've reached the golden standard for my Roster, it's perfect in my eyes.
That being said, I want to include a one-time Zelda character but I have no idea which one.

So, do you guys think Ghirahim or Midna is more likely? Who is a better character? nb4 "Neither".

I think Ghirahim has a slightly stronger chnace, but I've been favoring Midna as of late because she has a lot of moveset potential.

Brawl represented Midna/Wolf Link's most opportune window for inclusion, riding on the coattails of TP. With Skyward Sword being the most recent console Zelda, odds may be favouring Ghirahim.

But then again, recency/relevancy may not be the only thing to consider. There's technically nothing stopping them from including Midna despite Skyward Sword's recency. But Ghirahim seems a better fit, especially aesthetically, since SSB4 is more cartoony and vibrant overall compared to Brawl.

 

[Kenith]

Some would say Rosalina was the perfect assist.

Also, we're not getting any one time zelda guys, so that leaves tingle and toon zelda. If tingle isnt chosen, I would rather no one be chosen and we get, say, shulk. Or, Bandana dee.

You don't know that. Just because it didn't happen in Brawl doesn't make it impossible.

 

[Morbi]

Speaking of Zelda characters, I think I've reached the golden standard for my Roster, it's perfect in my eyes.
That being said, I want to include a one-time Zelda character but I have no idea which one.

So, do you guys think Ghirahim or Midna is more likely? Who is a better character? nb4 "Neither".

I think Ghirahim has a slightly stronger chnace, but I've been favoring Midna as of late because she has a lot of moveset potential.

Ghirahim is certainly more likely in my personal opinion. Midna never really had the traction that Ghirahim has. I believe Sakurai might include another antagonist far before he includes a supporting character. I could only see Midna over Ghirahim if she was attached to Wolf Link. I don't necessarily see that happening though.

 

[Shorts]

You don't know that. Just because it didn't happen in Brawl doesn't make it impossible.

We didn't get Skull Kid, and he's the choice for a one time villain imo. I mean, Ghirahim could pop up.... but I find that unlikely. Incredibly.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Speaking of Zelda characters, I think I've reached the golden standard for my Roster, it's perfect in my eyes.
That being said, I want to include a one-time Zelda character but I have no idea which one.

So, do you guys think Ghirahim or Midna is more likely? Who is a better character? nb4 "Neither".

I think Ghirahim has a slightly stronger chnace, but I've been favoring Midna as of late because she has a lot of moveset potential.

I personally like Midna better than Ghirahim, but you should really do for Vaati

 

[Chandeelure]

I really dislike all the possible Zelda newcomers XD
All of them are one time villains, Toon Zelda would be a clone and sounds incredibly unnecessary and Tingle is...Tingle.

 

[Morbi]

You don't know that. Just because it didn't happen in Brawl doesn't make it impossible.

This. And obviously the inverse, just because it was going to happen in Brawl doesn't mean it will happen in Smash 4.

 

[Zhadgon]

For me the most likely comers from Zelda goes for two characters Tingle or Ganon, Tingle with his own series and games like Wario and Yoshi from Mario universe or Ganon the classic design and by far representing the origins of Zelda and main enemy in multiple games I would see the situation like Rosalina and ZSS that were characters never considered but make sense once they are added to Smash.

.n_n.

 

[Kenith]

Ghirahim is certainly more likely in my personal opinion. Midna never really had the traction that Ghirahim has. I believe Sakurai might include another antagonist far before he includes a supporting character. I could only see Midna over Ghirahim if she was attached to Wolf Link. I don't necessarily see that happening though.

She didn't? Midna had/has a huge following since the release of Twilight Princess. I was there, I saw all of it.
Also, more source:
http://wantmidnaback.com/
These guys are more than just a fansite. They've been around and active since Twilight Princess's launch. While they aren't the entirety of her fanbase, it has all of info on said fanbase.

We didn't get Skull Kid, and he's the choice for a one time villain imo. I mean, Ghirahim could pop up.... but I find that unlikely. Incredibly.

What would Skull Kid do? Skull Kid isn't that popular.
Majora is. I doubt many people would recognize him without the mask. The character himself doesn't stand out that much.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I really dislike all the possible Zelda newcomers XD
All of them are one time villains, Toon Zelda would be a clone and sounds incredibly unnecessary and Tingle is...Tingle.

You dislike everyone except Bandanna Dee.

 

[Morbi]

For me the most likely comers from Zelda goes for two characters Tingle or Ganon, Tingle with his own series and games like Wario and Yoshi from Mario universe or Ganon the classic design and by far representing the origins of Zelda and main enemy in multiple games I would see the situation like Rosalina and ZSS that were characters never considered but make sense once they are added to Smash.

.n_n.

I agree with this sentiment. Tingle is my most wanted newcomer, and if we are going off of prevalence alone, he is the overt contender. Smash relevance and popularity/notoriety in the East/West are key aspects of his likelihood. However, a second Ganondorf makes sense as we already have a second Zelda and a second Link. A second Ganondorf is hardly a stretch of the imagination, especially as Ganondorf is a clone. Many want Ganondorf to more accurately represent the franchise he actually derives from. So Ganon, a prominent Legend of Zelda antagonist certainly has a chance.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I really dislike all the possible Zelda newcomers XD
All of them are one time villains, Toon Zelda would be a clone and sounds incredibly unnecessary and Tingle is...Tingle.

Well not ALL of them are one time villains. Vaati did have a few appearances. As did Ganon, but it's upto you whether that would seem redundant(two Links, two versions of Zelda(one is Sheik before you ask) and then two Ganon(dorf)s)

AND THEN THERE'S IMPA...

But no, seriously. I guess Vaati would be the least bad for me...maybe followed by Tingle. Due to appearances.

 

[Deleted member]

Speaking of Zelda characters, I think I've reached the golden standard for my Roster, it's perfect in my eyes.
That being said, I want to include a one-time Zelda character but I have no idea which one.

So, do you guys think Ghirahim or Midna is more likely? Who is a better character? nb4 "Neither".

I think Ghirahim has a slightly stronger chnace, but I've been favoring Midna as of late because she has a lot of moveset potential.

Between the two? Ghirahim.
Only because he's the only of the two that reasonably has a shot at this point.

Some would say Rosalina was the perfect assist.

Kinda different to what I was saying.
I was saying that while Tingle would make sense as a character, his actions as an Assist just fit his quirkiness so well. He's a damned good troll.
Not that he shouldn't be a character, but at least his role suits him unlike some examples.