Character Discussion Thread

[Pacack]

Assist trophy at the very least. It's the oldest thing to appear in a Smash Bros game regardless though, if I recall correctly.
inb4 Pong announced as a fighter in august

That is true.

It's actually what killed my precious Daitoryo ;_;

 

[False Sense]

Assist trophy at the very least. It's the oldest thing to appear in a Smash Bros game regardless, if I recall correctly.
inb4 Pong announced as a fighter in august

This is the part where someone makes a joke about how Alfonzo takes Pong's place as an Assist Trophy when Pong is playable, right?

 

[TitanTeaTime]

This is the part where someone makes a joke about how Alfonzo takes Pong's place as an Assist Trophy when Pong is playable, right?

Oh boy. I would photoshop that myself, if I was good at photoshop.

 

[GrapeEscape]

The definition of a "retro" character in Super Smash Bros. is a character that was born in the NES/Famicom era and never really left it outside of small cameos, if applicable. The Ice Climbers only had one NES game, Pit had Kid Icarus and Kid Icarus II and nothing beyond that. Other characters that fit the bill are Takamaru and Mach Rider, as they too were created during the days of the NES/Famicom but never got any more games past that.

 

[Weeman]

I hate to say this on the Official thread but...
Some Konami rep told Snake fans to tweet Kojima_Hideo_En and Kojima_Hideo and ask nicely for an answer with the hashtag #Snake4Smash4.
If some of you could help out that'd be great after all we just want an answer.

I don't think that would work, i mean even if he knew if Snake is in, he could get in trouble for revealing it. So all you would get from him would be ambiguous answers. And if he is not in Smash then that means Sakurai has not contacted them, wich would probably be the answer he'd give at best, and of course people would take him as a troll and still demand answers that he cannot give.

 

[Rockaphin]

I don't see why Mach Rider would be too much of a problem. He doesn't have to be on his bike 24/7. I think he should use his bike in most of his moveset. Sakurai seems to be interested in his character. I'm fine with Mr. Game & Watch though. As long as he returns, I'll be set for a "retro" character. However, if we're to expect a newcomer, my vote goes to Mach Rider then Lip.

 

[9Volt]

I don't see why Mach Rider would be too much of a problem. He doesn't have to be on his bike 24/7. I think he should use his bike in most of his moveset. Sakurai seems to be interested in his character. I'm fine with Mr. Game & Watch though. As long as he returns, I'll be set for a "retro" character. However, if we're to expect a newcomer, my vote goes to Mach Rider then Lip.

Sry my ignorance but why Sakurai is interested on Mach Rider?

 

[Rockaphin]

Sry my ignorance but why Sakurai is interested on Mach Rider?

I believe there have been interviews with him explaining that he considered the character, but implementing the motorcycle would've been too hard at the time. Also, being in one game, he received a song in Brawl. Which is f*cking' funny how Paper Mario has yet to get a song.

 

[ElPanandero]

I love mach rider, let's get him in the game

 

[GrapeEscape]

I believe there have been interviews with him explaining that he considered the character, but implementing the motorcycle would've been too hard at the time. Also, being in one game, he received a song in Brawl. Which is f*cking' funny how Paper Mario has yet to get a song.

Correction: Melee. I know it's kind of pointless to point it out, but the Mach Rider medley and his trophy originated from Melee. His song (surprisingly) returned as an unlockable in Brawl, along with a Mach Rider sticker.

 

[AEMehr]

I decided to tweak my roster input with the contents that we've gotten from E3 2014.

It's sad to say that I had to give up a few characters while making this. Dixie or K. Rool, and I picked K. Rool. Additionally, I scrapped Chrom, seeing as Ike has returned.

I would feel inclined to agree with your positioning of the Mii Fighters being treated as separate fighters if they were given individual pages on the Character pages on the website. But that is not the case, so I believe they will be sharing one icon on the Character Select Screen.

 

[Croph]

Did Sakurai explain that Mach Rider would be hard to implant? I know he said that to characters like Excitebike at the time...

Some other things to consider:

- Mach Rider looks almost redesigned in its trophy, almost like Sakurai gave Mach Rider extra attention
- Mach Rider was Sakurai's favourite character for Super Smash 2 (Melee)

I do think Sakurai has some sort of interest in Mach Rider, and I wouldn't be surprised if this biker's considered for a fighter, at the very least. I think an AT would be cool if Mach Rider can't get in. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing Mach Rider -- I think he (or she?) could make an interesting fighter, mounted or not.

 

[praline]

If Captain Falcon got to fight on foot I can see the same for Mach Rider.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

If Captain Falcon got to fight on foot I can see the same for Mach Rider.

Then wouldn't you just be playing as Captain Falcon? The motorcycle aspect is the appeal of Mach Rider I feel.

 

[GrapeEscape]

If Captain Falcon got to fight on foot I can see the same for Mach Rider.

The thing is that Captain Falcon uses a relatively large zero gravity race car; far too big to be used in battle. That's why he fights on foot. Mach Rider's motorcycle, on the other hand, is small enough to be feasibly used constantly throughout battle and has tons of functions. If Mach Rider were to be a playable character I'm sure he'd always be on his motorcycle, and I'd prefer it to be that way.

 

[CroonerMike]

I would feel inclined to agree with your positioning of the Mii Fighters being treated as separate fighters if they were given individual pages on the Character pages on the website. But that is not the case, so I believe they will be sharing one icon on the Character Select Screen.

I am pretty sure someone on the Treehouse said they share a slot.

 

[Deleted member]

Then wouldn't you just be playing as Captain Falcon? The motorcycle aspect is the appeal of Mach Rider I feel.

No, you would be playing as Mach Rider.

Only if Mach Rider was a clone would it be playing as Captain Falcon.

 

[AEMehr]

I am pretty sure someone on the Treehouse said they share a slot.

Well yes, that too suggest that the separate classes of the Mii Fighters will not have separate selection icons.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Isn't Mach Rider a girl?

 

[Neerb]

Isn't Mach Rider a girl?

It's unclear whether or not that's Mach Rider, as there's no text to specify and it only appears in the arcade version, not the original.

What's more, Mach Rider's Melee trophy refers to it as a "he."

Wouldn't mind either way, though; either it's Captain Falcon with guns or an even grittier version of Samus [on a motorcycle].

 

[Rockaphin]

Correction: Melee. I know it's kind of pointless to point it out, but the Mach Rider medley and his trophy originated from Melee. His song (surprisingly) returned as an unlockable in Brawl, along with a Mach Rider sticker.

Ah yes, how could I forget especially after just hearing it in Melee.

 

[Deleted member]

What's more, Mach Rider's Melee trophy refers to it as a "he."

Brawl's K. Rool trophy claims "Kaptain K. Rool" is K. Rool's brother.

And while not in Smash, the manual for Metroid referred to Samus as a "he".

 

[Starbound]

Oh boy, don't get me started on the "recentness" argument people abuse. I used to see it brought up a lot against Roy, for example.

While no one likes the recentness arguement being brought up, I've been noticing something for a while now regarding the newcomer selection and the remaining Gematsu characters.

Rosalina, Greninja, Palutena and Chrom are the only newcomers from existing IPs. All of the remaining characters are from new IPs. A trend can be seen between these four which is that each of these four are from, or heavily based on in Palutena's case, a recent game, being Mario Galaxy (2007), Pokemon XY (2013), Kid Icarus Uprising (2011) and Fire Emblem Awakening (2012). Is this trend coincidental or intentional?

Continuing on from that trend, the remaining new IPs are also recent IPs.
- Miis have been everywhere since 2006
- Wii Fit is from 2007
- Animal Crossing's been on every Nintendo console since the N64 in 2001
- Punch-Out Wii is from 2009
- 2010 had Xenoblade
- Rhythm Heaven Fever came out in 2011.

In fact, all of these new IPs are from the 2000s or later (with the exception of Little Mac). Again, did Sakurai intend for this to happen when he planned out the newcomers or is this pure coincidence?

If I am on to something, which I'm probably not but that's how theories work, this would mean that characters would indeed have had to appear in a recent game to be on the table. In terms of existing Smash IPs, all that comes to mind for me is Skyward Sword, Other M, Return to Dreamland, Triple Deluxe, Pikmin 3 and Tropical Freeze. For new IPs, I can think of Golden Sun (2010), Pushmo (2011) and Brain Age (2005).

Like I've said above, I have no idea if this is intentional or not. Relevancy has usually never meant anything in terms of roster selection but this trend with all of our newcomers so far is making me think that it is actually meaning something this time.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Just to correct you, Kid Icarus Uprising was out on 2012. /nitpicking

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, you would be playing as Mach Rider.

Only if Mach Rider was a clone would it be playing as Captain Falcon.

Not that that wouldn't work or anything... Mach Rider being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Mach Rider should have an attack where he explodes into that cloud of pixely chunks and then comes back together. Just saying.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not to mention, the quote can also be taken as "old characters," as in, why we got Classic Mega Man, Classic Pac-Man, and Wire-Frame Mac. In that sense, he did bring back "old characters."

No, because those designs (specifically Pac-Man's and Megaman's) are the designs people wanted them to have in Smash 4, not because of "retro" context.

 

[ElPanandero]

Mach Rider should have an attack where he explodes into that cloud of pixely chunks and then comes back together. Just saying.

Up-B confirmed.

 

[Vickand]

What if Mach Rider gimmick is that he is in his bike at the start of the match and after recieving some damage he lose his bike and it changes his playstyle obviously making him weaker without the bike, but still a good character

 

[Louie G.]

What if Mach Rider gimmick is that he is in his bike at the start of the match and after recieving some damage he lose his bike and it changes his playstyle obviously making him weaker without the bike, but still a good character

That's a little unnecessary.

Just keep him on the bike.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

That's a little unnecessary.

Just keep him on the bike.

Or pull a Crusade on him. Works just fine in there.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Or just, y'know.

Add Takamaru instead.

 

[Twin Shot]

Weren't they considering having an Excitebiker Character but couldn't figure out how it would work?

Reminds me of this Mach Rider Convo.

Not saying it's not possible, look what they did for the ice climbers =)

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Isn't Mach Rider a girl?

He/she looks like a yellow power ranger. lol

 

[Louie G.]

Or pull a Crusade on him. Works just fine in there.

Eh.

I find Mach Rider's potential to be the possibility of a mount character.
There are some characters that I really want in the game, but I wouldn't care for if they were done a certain way.
If Mach Rider was Crusade Rider, it'd be a little meh.
But a mount character really fits in with the uniqueness that Sakurai is going for this time around, and it could be really cool and fun.

Smash 4 is the time to think big, think outside the box.
Considering Sakurai was thinking about a mount character back in Melee, I find that to be the only way Mach is getting in.
Off the bike he'd play a lot like a certain Captain.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Or just, y'know.

Add Takamaru instead.

Enough Counters already.

 

[Croph]

While no one likes the recentness arguement being brought up, I've been noticing something for a while now regarding the newcomer selection and the remaining Gematsu characters.

Rosalina, Greninja, Palutena and Chrom are the only newcomers from existing IPs. All of the remaining characters are from new IPs. A trend can be seen between these four which is that each of these four are from, or heavily based on in Palutena's case, a recent game, being Mario Galaxy (2007), Pokemon XY (2013), Kid Icarus Uprising (2011) and Fire Emblem Awakening (2012). Is this trend coincidental or intentional?

Continuing on from that trend, the remaining new IPs are also recent IPs.
- Miis have been everywhere since 2006
- Wii Fit is from 2007
- Animal Crossing's been on every Nintendo console since the N64 in 2001
- Punch-Out Wii is from 2009
- 2010 had Xenoblade
- Rhythm Heaven Fever came out in 2011.

In fact, all of these new IPs are from the 2000s or later (with the exception of Little Mac). Again, did Sakurai intend for this to happen when he planned out the newcomers or is this pure coincidence?

If I am on to something, which I'm probably not but that's how theories work, this would mean that characters would indeed have had to appear in a recent game to be on the table. In terms of existing Smash IPs, all that comes to mind for me is Skyward Sword, Other M, Return to Dreamland, Triple Deluxe, Pikmin 3 and Tropical Freeze. For new IPs, I can think of Golden Sun (2010), Pushmo (2011) and Brain Age (2005).

Like I've said above, I have no idea if this is intentional or not. Relevancy has usually never meant anything in terms of roster selection but this trend with all of our newcomers so far is making me think that it is actually meaning something this time.

I was more or less referring to the fact that sometimes people twist and abuse the recentness argument. But I do agree with your observation.

Something interesting to note:

When they’re all lined up like this, it becomes obvious that there is roughly 6-year blank before and after Pikmin. While there have been big series since then like "Animal Crossing," "Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day," and "Wii Sports" it does seem that coming up with a completely new character-driven series has gotten more difficult recently.

I have no idea if these newcomers coming from more recent series is intentional or not, as Sakurai has taken note that Pikmin was the only recent series in Brawl (6 year gap between Pikmin and Pokemon). I wouldn't be surprised if they put some attention to the newer series, and considered a fighter from them (like Xenoblade or Rhythm Heaven), as Sakurai seemed to be disappointed with the newer series included in Brawl.

I don't think all characters HAVE to appear in a recent series/game, nor should be the deciding factor, though. And it shouldn't be the only rule this time, because we have had exceptions in the past (I don't even know if Sakurai mentioned recentness in his criteria).

That being said, Sakurai has said something about deciding on Pokemon characters:

"For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward.

"But it’s not just that – going back to just what we talked about, what’s unique about them? Where do they fit in with the rest of everything else? What do they have? It’s a combination of those things."

He talked about Pokemon being "hot" before, but also mentioned longevity. Could we also apply this to other characters? That Sakurai is looking for interesting, popular, and memorable characters?

So, does Greninja fit in, with what Sakurai said?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Or just, y'know.

Add Takamaru instead.

yespls

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Enough Counters already.

Why would Takamaru have Counter?

 

[Louie G.]

@ Croph
I agree that Xenoblade certainly can get a character due to the facts you mentioned.
It's a brand new character-driven series, which Sakurai is looking for and Nintendo doesn't come out with too often.

Rhythm Heaven, on the other hand, has no real main characters. Chorus Kids are the stars of two minigames. They appear throughout the game and make cameos in Fever and Game and Wario, however.
But the series can be comparable to Wii Sports, Animal Crossing, and Wii Fit: popular franchises with no true main character.
Although Sakurai wasn't too keen on them during Brawl's days, it seems he's taking a liking to characters from these series now.

So I agree with your thinking.
Whenever I talk about Rhythm Heaven I get into it. Gotta stop myself from rambling on.