Character Discussion Thread

[ultimatekoopa]

Just curious here: does anyone think Snake's supposed newfound likeliness affects Pac-Man's chances? I remember back before most people lost hope for Snake there was a lot of discussion over how many third party characters were reasonable for the roster. After Snake's support started dropping off, most people just kinda left it at three. If Snake does indeed return, is there still room for Pac-Man, or are they in direct competition with each other? Is four too many, or does it not matter at all?

I think that Snake and Pacman will get in

 

[Bauske]

I'm still thinking Pac-Man's chances are as high as they've ever been, but I wouldn't mind Snake returning. He was certainly a unique addition to the cast.

 

[Deleted member]

Just curious here: does anyone think Snake's supposed newfound likeliness affects Pac-Man's chances? I remember back before most people lost hope for Snake there was a lot of discussion over how many third party characters were reasonable for the roster. After Snake's support started dropping off, most people just kinda left it at three. If Snake does indeed return, is there still room for Pac-Man, or are they in direct competition with each other? Is four too many, or does it not matter at all?

Snake and Pac-Man being in competition with each other is a ridiculous notion considering that they come from different companies. If Snake is in, it won't affect Pac-Man's chances anyway (who's already in if we take the Gematsu leak seriously).

 

[^^Fire^^]

If Pac Man is in then what the heck Sakurai!

 

[Cpt.]

If Pac Man is in then what the heck Sakurai!

Pac-Man is really important to video games in general. Maybe not directly important to Smash, but still. He has also had several Nintendo games. I would welcome Pac-Man. He's not my favorite character or anything, but I'd rather have him than not have him.

 

[^^Fire^^]

Also Ridley is clearly deconfirmed

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Also Ridley is clearly deconfirmed

Finally, people are catching on.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

You know, I've only seen two pieces of "evidence" so far claiming Ridley's a boss. Everything else points to playable.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I don't believe Ridley shall be playable in this game but we'll just have to see what happens at E3.

 

[Cpt.]

Also Ridley is clearly deconfirmed

Clearly you know so much about Sakurai's comments and can decipher his hidden meanings. Please enlighten me with your knowledge oh wise one!

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

Also Ridley is clearly deconfirmed

Lol yup totally

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Are we still seriously saying that Ridley is disconfirmed?!?!?! If PizzaDudeManGuy still has hope for him, so do I! Any questions?

 

[False Sense]

Are we still seriously saying that Ridley is disconfirmed?!?!?! If PizzaDudeManGuy still has hope for him, so do I! Any questions?

You certainly hold Youtube members in high regard, don't you?

Also Ridley is clearly deconfirmed

It's a lot less clear than every other de-confirmation we've had.

 

[Kenith]

Also Ridley is clearly deconfirmed

Oh boy, this again.

First and foremost, you are incorrect. No, saying "Dillion appears as an Assist Trophy" is clearly deconfirmed. Saying "There will bosses on other stages", and showing Ridley's awkwardly moving shadow and Pyrosphere is not very clear.

Most of the evidence points to him being playable. The clip obviously implies he's a boss, but that's why he did it. To confuse us.

Ridley may very well be deconfirmed, but it was not clear.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You certainly hold Youtube members in high regard, don't you?

Well, yes. Except GamesRadar, their predictions are way off.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Just a warning before it starts. If insults are thrown around from any user in regards to Ridley speculation, you will be INFRACTED. This is your warning. Everytime I see Ridley talked about, I see aggressive posts and insults. With that in mind, should I see any, you're getting infracted.

I will say that there isn't anything solid pointing to him being playable either, so I don't see why people keep saying that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Sakurai is frustrating me, I just want Ridley to be revealed so the whole matter is over. ;-;

 

[Kenith]

We've got one week before we have access to the Pyrosphere stage in the demos anyway, can't we wait that long?

 

[Niala]

Just a warning before it starts. If insults are thrown around from any user in regards to Ridley speculation, you will be INFRACTED. This is your warning. Everytime I see Ridley talked about, I see aggressive posts and insults. With that in mind, should I see any, you're getting infracted.

I will say that there isn't anything solid pointing to him being playable either, so I don't see why people keep saying that.

This is exactly why I don't think he'll be playable. Certainly, he's not deconfirmed, but there's a complete lack of evidence pointing that he will be playable other than that people really really really really really want him to be, while evidence suggests he won't be playable.

 

[wafflini]

We've got one week before we have access to the Pyrosphere stage in the demos anyway, can't we wait that long?

No.

*edit: But on a more serious note, we dont even know how many or which stages will be playable. And even if stages with boss fights are in it could be that they are disabled due to not being finished.

Not saying its gonna turn out this way, but it is a possibility to keep in mind.

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

What If Bowser Jr. Was Announced For SSB4?

 

[Rockaphin]

You know, I've only seen two pieces of "evidence" so far claiming Ridley's a boss. Everything else points to playable.

What evidence points to him being playable? If anything, I think there's more evidence that he is a boss. And I'm one of those that think he has a chance still.

What If Bowser Jr. Was Announced For SSB4?

That would be awesome, I would love to see Bowser Jr. playable and honestly he deserves to be. However, I'm a huge Paper Mario supporter so that would murder my hope of the possibility of him becoming playable.

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

What evidence points to him being playable? If anything, I think there's more evidence that he is a boss. And I'm one of those that think he has a chance still.

That would be awesome, I would love to see Bowser Jr. playable and honestly he deserves to be. However, I'm a huge Paper Mario supporter so that would murder my hope of the possibility of him becoming playable.

Yeah, I would rather have Paper Mario then Bowser Jr.

 

[NickerBocker]

My issues with the direct where Ridley was "shown as a boss" is that why would Sakurai show just a shadow of the model and not the actual thing if he is deconfirmed? Why does he continue to tease constantly towards a stage hazard instead of just telling us hes not playable?

Of course, this is all theoretical and he wont be playable. I dont really understand why Sakurai would do something like this. He just building up to disappoint fans, not only Ridley fans, but Metroid as well.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

What evidence points to him being playable? If anything, I think there's more evidence that he is a boss. And I'm one of those that think he has a chance still.

Well, his shadow is absolutely tiny.

And it is the regular version of Pyrosphere, so the platforms present could make Boss Ridley irritating to fight.

And for whatever reason, Sakurai isn't telling us about how the lava hazard present in Pyrosphere works, and lava death from below + Ridley death from above would NOT make the Pyrosphere fun to play on. (And there IS a lava stage hazard, why else would it be removed on the FD version?)

And finally, Ridley's model has changed. Why would Sakurai bother to make changes to Ridley's Other M model if he was just going to be a boss?

But to be fair, the lava hazard that's yet to be shown in Pyrosphere is likely more than a simple rising and falling action. The platforms are spaced too far apart to make the hazard manageable.

 

[Aeolia]

My issues with the direct where Ridley was "shown as a boss" is that why would Sakurai show just a shadow of the model and not the actual thing if he is deconfirmed? Why does he continue to tease constantly towards a stage hazard instead of just telling us hes not playable?

Of course, this is all theoretical and he wont be playable. I dont really understand why Sakurai would do something like this. He just building up to disappoint fans, not only Ridley fans, but Metroid as well.

If he isn't playable maybe there will be many versions of him showing up so Sakurai didn't want to show only one.
The more obvious explanation is that Zero Suit Samus' new Final Smash is transforming into Ridley.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ewww Bowser Jr.

Toad, Paper Mario, or any Koopaling before that Nintendo misfire.

 

[Joe D.]

Ridley is deconfirmed guys.....



For being a stage hazard

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Ewww Bowser Jr.

Toad, Paper Mario, or any Koopaling before that Nintendo misfire.

I'd like to actually see Jr...as a boss.

Think about it. He'd fly back and forth in the Clown Car, dropping bombs and summoning weaponry from the Airship Armada and whatever else his old man gave him

 

[Bowserlick]

A boss or AT is fine with me. I would prefer Waluigi over him as a character.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

A boss or AT is fine with me. I would prefer Waluigi over him as a character.

For the next iteration of Smash, it's either Waluigi or Pink Gold Peach to represent the Mario sports spinoffs.

 

[Second Power]

For the next iteration of Smash, it's either Waluigi or Pink Gold Peach to represent the Mario sports spinoffs.

No way, we obviously need all seven Koopalings to represent them.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

For the next iteration of Smash, it's either Waluigi or Pink Gold Peach to represent the Mario sports spinoffs.

More suitable as something referenced by an alt colour for Peach.

No way, we obviously need all seven Koopalings to represent them.

Why trollface?

 

[andimidna]

For the next iteration of Smash, we need Pink Gold Waluigi to represent the Mario sports spinoffs.

Much better.

 

[Niala]

My issues with the direct where Ridley was "shown as a boss" is that why would Sakurai show just a shadow of the model and not the actual thing if he is deconfirmed? Why does he continue to tease constantly towards a stage hazard instead of just telling us hes not playable?

Of course, this is all theoretical and he wont be playable. I dont really understand why Sakurai would do something like this. He just building up to disappoint fans, not only Ridley fans, but Metroid as well.

The point of introducing Ridley as a silhouette wasn't necessarily intended as disguising what form Ridley will take, but just disguising Ridley. Yes, we here as analysts will understand immediately what's being hinted, however, a good portion of the people watching the direct wouldn't. There are gamers who have never even played a Metroid game, there are young kids who don't know who he is yet. In my opinion, trying to argue otherwise is an over-analysis.

1.Well, his shadow is absolutely tiny.

2.And it is the regular version of Pyrosphere, so the platforms present could make Boss Ridley irritating to fight.

3.And for whatever reason, Sakurai isn't telling us about how the lava hazard present in Pyrosphere works, and lava death from below + Ridley death from above would NOT make the Pyrosphere fun to play on. (And there IS a lava stage hazard, why else would it be removed on the FD version?)

4.And finally, Ridley's model has changed. Why would Sakurai bother to make changes to Ridley's Other M model if he was just going to be a boss?

But to be fair, the lava hazard that's yet to be shown in Pyrosphere is likely more than a simple rising and falling action. The platforms are spaced too far apart to make the hazard manageable.

1. How can you judge the size of a shadow based on it's object if you don't know the source of the light? When you're walking down a street late at night and pass by a street lamp, your shadow can extend three times your body length. That doesn't mean you're that size. The size of the shadow is completely irrelevant.

2. I don't see how that's a relevant point. Not only do we know nothing about how Ridley would act on the stage if he were a boss, we hardly know anything about the mechanics of bosses on stages as hazards at all. There's so little information present that it's impossible to infer whether or not the platforms would be irritating, and even then that's an entirely subjective notion.

3. The lava hazard, which I'm still not entirely sure is a hazard and could just be a background effect, doesn't need to be shown. Besides, it wouldn't be the first time a stage has had multiple hazards. Even Gerudo Valley has Kotake and Koume, as well as the bridge exploding. Norfair in Brawl had lava appear from the bottom, side, and rear of the arena. And again, whether or not that's fun is entirely subjective.

4. You can attribute the model changing to Sakurai having good attention to detail and taking pride in his work. He has an injured arm/shoulder, and he still takes it upon himself to make the game, he's clearly dedicated and hard-working. Lastly, why wouldn't he make changes to the model? Why not just never change models? We could be fighting with 2D Mario and polygonal Link still. The model could just be changed so it looks more appropriate. It's not really up to us to decide what roles deserve a change of design and which don't.

None of these are arguments are very strong. The fact of the matter is we've only seen him on that stage, and he was hinted at being a boss on that stage. I won't dismiss the possibility that he is playable since we have no concrete evidence he won't be, be we certainly have absolutely no evidence he will be, either.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Assuming Ridley is playable right now is not the wise choice to make.

He COULD be, but who knows. Considering Sakurai HINTED towards him being a boss, it's better to just go with that, lest you end up heavily disappointing yourself if he actually does end up as a boss.

EDIT: And yes, we can't accurately determine Ridley's size from the shadow without knowing the source of light and the height he's flying at.

 

[NickerBocker]

The point of introducing Ridley as a silhouette wasn't necessarily intended as disguising what form Ridley will take, but just disguising Ridley. Yes, we here as analysts will understand immediately what's being hinted, however, a good portion of the people watching the direct wouldn't. There are gamers who have never even played a Metroid game, there are young kids who don't know who he is yet. In my opinion, trying to argue otherwise is an over-analysis.

Sakurai being the huge troll that he is, may just in the end pull a switcharoo. We have seen it twice already as big surprises. For example:

Toon Link is the train conductor, therefore he cant be playable. Several months later hes playable.

"I'm afraid that [ZSS] wont be returning foe this game.... nah just kidding, here she is."

Point is, the fact that he hasnt blatantly deconfirmed him convinces me he isnt deconfirmed (go figure.) In the first example with TL, the "over-analyzers" were right in the end, because they identified that conductor Link and Toon Link are not the same.

I dont think this is over analyzing, just simply analyzing. Were taking what we know about the situation and weighing the odds. We all have access to the same amount of evidence, we just interpret it differently. I personally think Sakurai was merely teasing Ridley in general, not as playable or a stage hazard. In the coming months we will see what happens.

I will remain neutral on the subject until we see more evidence, I am actually happy with either outcomr because there is more than one character in the game.

I dont want anyone to be bitter, but I know it will happen, that If Ridley is not included, detractors will state that he "never had a chance anyways." When in reality he is probably one of the biggest Nintendo stars not in Smash. Same is true for the other side if he is confirmed, saying "I knew hed be in, and you all thought he wasnt a guarantee," when in reality no one is a guarantee.

 

[Niala]

Sakurai being the huge troll that he is, may just in the end pull a switcharoo. We have seen it twice already as big surprises. For example:

Toon Link is the train conductor, therefore he cant be playable. Several months later hes playable.

"I'm afraid that [ZSS] wont be returning foe this game.... nah just kidding, here she is."

Point is, the fact that he hasnt blatantly deconfirmed him convinces me he isnt deconfirmed (go figure.) In the first example with TL, the "over-analyzers" were right in the end, because they identified that conductor Link and Toon Link are not the same.

I dont think this is over analyzing, just simply analyzing. Were taking what we know about the situation and weighing the odds. We all have access to the same amount of evidence, we just interpret it differently. I personally think Sakurai was merely teasing Ridley in general, not as playable or a stage hazard. In the coming months we will see what happens.

I will remain neutral on the subject until we see more evidence, I am actually happy with either outcomr because there is more than one character in the game.

I dont want anyone to be bitter, but I know it will happen, that If Ridley is not included, detractors will state that he "never had a chance anyways." When in reality he is probably one of the biggest Nintendo stars not in Smash. Same is true for the other side if he is confirmed, saying "I knew hed be in, and you all thought he wasnt a guarantee," when in reality no one is a guarantee.

You are correct in saying he could pull a switcheroo on us, for sure. I don't think he will, though. That's why I think it's over-analyzing it. I would rather accept the likelier outcome than cling to a infinitesimal piece of hope only to be more let down later. Like I said, I don't think he's deconfirmed, I just don't see any evidence stating that he is playable, while there is some evidence pointing that he won't be.

The situation with Toon Link is slightly different, though. As far as I'm aware, the train conductor doesn't have an active role in the stage apart from being there as a visual interest, whereas bosses take part in the outcome of the fight. I think it's hard to argue their fates could be the same when their circumstances are different.

On top of that, Sakurai showed us Alfonzo would be driving the train when Toon Link was being played-- the simplest explanation for this, of course, would be to avoid confusion. Now, not that I'm the most active Metroid fan, but I don't know of any characters who could take Ridley's place on the stage while he's being played, to avoid the confusion of whether you're attacking a player or the boss. There are obvious work-arounds, like changing the model or a considerable size differences, but I'm not sure those are viable solutions.

I hate to say it, but you have it right. In the end, people will gloat over what they believed being correct, instead of just accepting people have different opinions and not everybody is going to be correct. The whole point of the forum is to share our opinions together, but people tend to be competitive instead of collaborative.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

The point of introducing Ridley as a silhouette wasn't necessarily intended as disguising what form Ridley will take, but just disguising Ridley. Yes, we here as analysts will understand immediately what's being hinted, however, a good portion of the people watching the direct wouldn't. There are gamers who have never even played a Metroid game, there are young kids who don't know who he is yet. In my opinion, trying to argue otherwise is an over-analysis.



1. How can you judge the size of a shadow based on it's object if you don't know the source of the light? When you're walking down a street late at night and pass by a street lamp, your shadow can extend three times your body length. That doesn't mean you're that size. The size of the shadow is completely irrelevant.

2. I don't see how that's a relevant point. Not only do we know nothing about how Ridley would act on the stage if he were a boss, we hardly know anything about the mechanics of bosses on stages as hazards at all. There's so little information present that it's impossible to infer whether or not the platforms would be irritating, and even then that's an entirely subjective notion.

3. The lava hazard, which I'm still not entirely sure is a hazard and could just be a background effect, doesn't need to be shown. Besides, it wouldn't be the first time a stage has had multiple hazards. Even Gerudo Valley has Kotake and Koume, as well as the bridge exploding. Norfair in Brawl had lava appear from the bottom, side, and rear of the arena. And again, whether or not that's fun is entirely subjective.

4. You can attribute the model changing to Sakurai having good attention to detail and taking pride in his work. He has an injured arm/shoulder, and he still takes it upon himself to make the game, he's clearly dedicated and hard-working. Lastly, why wouldn't he make changes to the model? Why not just never change models? We could be fighting with 2D Mario and polygonal Link still. The model could just be changed so it looks more appropriate. It's not really up to us to decide what roles deserve a change of design and which don't.

None of these are arguments are very strong. The fact of the matter is we've only seen him on that stage, and he was hinted at being a boss on that stage. I won't dismiss the possibility that he is playable since we have no concrete evidence he won't be, be we certainly have absolutely no evidence he will be, either.

1. I cannot judge the size of a shadow. I can however, guess that the shadows can only get bigger, not tinier. Also, because Ridley grabbed Pikachu, I can extrapolate his shadow relative to Pikachu's shadow.

Ridley's tail is 1/6th Pikachu's tail. Ergo, Ridley can be these range of sizes.

2. Bosses have a precedent of either being fought on a flat plane or an FD-style platform. Ridley, if he was a boss, would have platforms obstructing both his and the player's attacks. The Yellow Devil is also fought on an FD-style platform.

3. Why remove the lava flow? Why change the cages of the purple domes? You can't argue "distraction" when we have this on vanilla Final Destination.

 

[NickerBocker]

You are correct in saying he could pull a switcheroo on us, for sure. I don't think he will, though. That's why I think it's over-analyzing it. I would rather accept the likelier outcome than cling to a infinitesimal piece of hope only to be more let down later. Like I said, I don't think he's deconfirmed, I just don't see any evidence stating that he is playable, while there is some evidence pointing that he won't be.

The situation with Toon Link is slightly different, though. As far as I'm aware, the train conductor doesn't have an active role in the stage apart from being there as a visual interest, whereas bosses take part in the outcome of the fight. I think it's hard to argue their fates could be the same when their circumstances are different.

On top of that, Sakurai showed us Alfonzo would be driving the train when Toon Link was being played-- the simplest explanation for this, of course, would be to avoid confusion. Now, not that I'm the most active Metroid fan, but I don't know of any characters who could take Ridley's place on the stage while he's being played, to avoid the confusion of whether you're attacking a player or the boss. There are obvious work-arounds, like changing the model or a considerable size differences, but I'm not sure those are viable solutions.

I hate to say it, but you have it right. In the end, people will gloat over what they believed being correct, instead of just accepting people have different opinions and not everybody is going to be correct. The whole point of the forum is to share our opinions together, but people tend to be competitive instead of collaborative.

My point about Toon Link was that we didn't know he could switch out with Alfonzo, so most assumed that TL simply wouldnt return. Its kind of like when we found out transformation characters werent returning. Had we known this, more people probably would have predicted a Solo Charizard more frequently.

Youre probably right that nobody could replace Ridley, but there is the chance that there is the Other M Ridley as a playable character, and the Super Metroid version as the boss, for example.

Again, I dont think this is over analyzing. Youre free to accept any theory, and you have chosen that Ridley wont be playable. Fair enough, because that is how you interpreted the evidence, which isnt wrong by any means. I have chosen to look beyond the curtain and try to reason why Sakurai has chosen such an odd way to show a character as a boss. It is what it is, lets agree to disagree, and your points are pretty solid I must say.