Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Perhaps. But that doesn't really explain why Jigglypuff got in over Mewtwo in Brawl, I think. Considering how close to completion Mewtwo was, you'd think they could have ditched Jigglypuff in favor of bringing Mewtwo back. After all, Mewtwo was still a very popular Pokemon at that time, and technically more significant than Jigglypuff. The fact that they kept Jigglypuff despite that means something, I think.

I'm sorry, but this really needs to be addressed.

There is nothing that states how close Mewtwo was to be completed. People use the blank victory theme file and the blank Wii Remote sound effect as evidence, but literally none of his data is actually accessible, and the character data he is shown to have is the same size as the data for all the other unfinished characters.
And even then, we've got someone like Wolf, who doesn't even have a blank victory theme file like every other character that isn't the first character of their series in the data or Meta Knight. Mewtwo and Roy had one and Wolf did not, yet Wolf is in the game while they aren't.

And given the order of the low-priority characters' placements in the Instance Slot data:
0x25 PURIN
0x26 MEWTWO
0x27 ROY
0x28 DR_MARIO
0x29 TOONLINK
0x2a TOONZELDA
0x2b TOONSHEIK
0x2c WOLF
0x2d DIXIE

It's clear that Jigglypuff, who made her Smash debut before the other three low-end veterans, was worked on first between the two. And between the two, Jigglypuff took the least amount of work needed in a shorter period of time.

HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that if only one could make it again this time around, Jigglypuff would edge out Mewtwo again.

Remember Sakurai's statement on how Pokémon are chosen?
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1970393/pokemon_in_super_smash_bros_how_theyre_selected.html

During Brawl's development, neither Mewtwo nor Jigglypuff were raking in any promotional material (the recurring Jigglypuff also stopped showing up in the anime).
They were edged out of priority by the Pokémon Trainer (who featured a unique gimmick Sakurai wanted to make) and Lucario, the current "hot topic" of Pokémon.

Now?
Jigglypuff is one of 22 older Pokémon that's been reclassed into the new Fairy type. ....that's it.

Mewtwo is one of 26 Pokémon that's been given a Mega Evolution (28 if the Lati@s count), but is one of only two Pokémon to have been given TWO of them, the other being Charizard. Mewtwo also starred in the latest Pokémon movie introducing the Mega Evolutions before we knew what they were as well as a short prequel special, has both Megas tied to the two-part Mega Evolution special and the upcoming movie, is a major plot aspect of the Origins OVA, is featured as a post-game Legendary event encounter in X/Y, and was given frequent promotion for the games alongside Lucario.
And of course, Mewtwo is one of the most requested characters for Smash 4 if not the most, but that's just icing on the cake.

Between the two, Mewtwo is most likely to be given priority status due to being what Sakurai would define as a "hot" Pokémon again.
That's not to say they can't both make it and we have 6 Pokémon. But in the event there is only 5, Mewtwo is the safer bet.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that Sakurai literally said he was "thinking about it" in regards to Mewtwo having his Y Mega Evolution (at the time, was merely known as an alternate Forme and the only one of Mewtwo's in public knowledge).

 

[Leafeon523]

Kid Icarus: Uprising already has two potential reps.

Pit and Palutena.

Sorry, I didn't clarify correctly. What I meant to say was that I don't think two newcomers will be added from Fire Emblem Awakening. I don't see it happening for KIU either, but with the ridiculous bias we've seen so far I don't view it as impossible.

 

[False Sense]

No, False Sense. This is my decision. I chose this fate.

So, out of curiosity, why would you say Miis are practically de-confirmed?

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

Although I am a big fan of the Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man (everyone thinks he's creepy, I've watched every episode of the show and I actually find him an adorable doofus), I would totally be okay with this version of Pac-Man. It's insanely classic, perfect proportions, and pleasing to everyone, it seems. I don't have a preference; Pac-Man in is a good thing regardless for me. But the version you showed is my second-most wanted version of him.

I actually wouldn't mind a Pac-Man Monsters version of him either.

I would not mind this Pac-Man at all! He actually looks pretty awesome in this picture!

 

[Kenith]

So, out of curiosity, why would you say Miis are practically de-confirmed?

They are featured extensively in the online play section of the Direct, acting as player avatars like I expected instead of being shown playable.

Also, the Mii in the cage in the Find Mii stage, but that is less substantial evidence, so I would disregard it for now.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

54 Character roster.
While I am here, I figured I might as well post this.

View attachment 14550

I think I may cut Mach Rider for Pacman, honestly. It will be on my own terms, however. I would rather cut no one.

Ghirahim and Anna aren't going anywhere.

Anna and Chrom? 0/10 for poor Fire Emblem taste

 

[Kenith]

Anna and Chrom? 0/10 for poor Fire Emblem taste

Better than just Chrom though.

And I would prefer, if someone criticized me for "poor" taste, that they clarify what constitutes "good" taste.

 

[Morbi]

Better than just Chrom though.

And I would prefer, if someone criticized me for "poor" taste, that they clarify what constitutes "good" taste.

Their opinion constitutes "good" taste. Or maybe just non-Awakening characters because they are hipsters.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Figured I'd post my absolute final roster before E3. Sal Leak + Ridley. Ridley could very easily be anyone else, though, like King K. Rool or Mewtwo. I'm merely waiting to see if I'm red-marking him come E3 or if his ambiguity really was made for a reason. Placing my bets on the former, but we'll see soon enough.

 

[domokl]

They are featured extensively in the online play section of the Direct, acting as player avatars like I expected instead of being shown playable.

Also, the Mii in the cage in the Find Mii stage, but that is less substantial evidence, so I would disregard it for now.

miis have been both before. and dont get me started on the cage mii.

 

[Morbi]

Figured I'd post my absolute final roster before E3. Sal Leak + Ridley. Ridley could very easily be anyone else, though, like King K. Rool. I'm merely waiting to see if I'm red-marking him come E3 or if his ambiguity really was made for a reason. Placing my bets on the former, but we'll see soon enough.

What do the green squares represent; and what do the black and gray squares represent?

 

[Deleted member]

They are featured extensively in the online play section of the Direct, acting as player avatars like I expected instead of being shown playable.

No, they're only used in comical demonstration on how Global Smash Power works and through the player's online name being linked to their Nintendo Network ID (which always uses the player's Mii as the picture; it's not optional). Neither of which being presented in the actual game (though the Network ID thing will).

This is horrible evidence.

 

[Kenith]

No, they're only used in comical demonstration on how Global Smash Power works and through the player's online name being linked to their Nintendo Network ID (which always uses the player's Mii as the picture; it's not optional).

This is horrible evidence.

So, they used exactly how I said they were used. Right.

Whether or not it's optional doesn't matter.

 

[Leafeon523]

miis have been both before. and dont get me started on the cage mii.

No, they're only used in comical demonstration on how Global Smash Power works and through the player's online name being linked to their Nintendo Network ID (which always uses the player's Mii as the picture; it's not optional).

This is horrible evidence.

Please, let's not have another mii discussion... why not talk about Shulk instead?

 

[Bauske]

I would not mind this Pac-Man at all! He actually looks pretty awesome in this picture!

Yeah! The art style in this game is absolutely wonderful. I hope Namco takes it and expands it in the future in a full 3D 3DS or Wii U game or something. It's seriously great seeing little Pac people in action poses and doing cool fantasy stuff.

Figured I'd post my absolute final roster before E3. Sal Leak + Ridley. Ridley could very easily be anyone else, though, like King K. Rool. I'm merely waiting to see if I'm red-marking him come E3 or if his ambiguity really was made for a reason. Placing my bets on the former, but we'll see soon enough.

Personal preference: Remove Ike or Ridley (not because I dislike them, I just don't see them as likely) and replace with either K. Rool or Mewtwo and that's pretty much the roster I'm expecting.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Please, let's not have another mii discussion... why not talk about Shulk instead?

Total shoo-in, a new series I hoped that would get the deserving character treatment as Mother, now that the Gematsu leak seals the deal, I'm probably not too hyped about him anymore.

 

[Kenith]

miis have been both before. and dont get me started on the cage mii.

So was Toad.

 

[Deleted member]

So, they used exactly how I said they were used. Right.

Whether or not it's optional doesn't matter.

Yes, it actually does.

Being optional would mean that, just like Brawl, they aren't actually featured in-game and just serve as online avatars a player can use for online.

Not being optional, especially due to being the Nintendo Network ID (the actual important thing to focus on), gives absolutely zero evidence on whether they'll be featured in-game or not. Especially so because, again, Nintendo Network ID, which isn't something tied specifically to Smash like Brawl's Online Profiles.

 

[Kenith]

Yes, it actually does.
Being optional would mean that, just like Brawl, they aren't actually featured in-game and just serve as online avatars a player can use for online.
Not being optional, especially due to being the Nintendo Network ID (the actual important thing to focus on), gives absolutely zero evidence on whether they'll be featured in-game or not. Especially so because, again, Nintendo Network ID, which isn't something tied specifically to Smash like Brawl's Online Profiles.

That doesn't say anything about the fact they were used in the Direct to represent the players.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Better than just Chrom though.

And I would prefer, if someone criticized me for "poor" taste, that they clarify what constitutes "good" taste.

Would still prefer Chrom or Lucina over Anna. Anna isn't a Lord dammit

 

[Kenith]

Would still prefer Chrom or Lucina over Anna. Anna isn't a Lord dammit

You want a Lord? WHY??

 

[Deleted member]

That doesn't say anything about the fact they were used in the Direct to represent the players.

Oh, for a demonstration outside the game to explain the concept of Global Smash Power?

What else was he going to use to visually demonstrate something that reflects the actual players rather than the characters or the game itself? Octoroks?

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

What do the green squares represent; and what do the black and gray squares represent?

Helps to actually examine which characters are green. They're all the confirmed characters.

Personal preference: Remove Ike or Ridley (not because I dislike them, I just don't see them as likely) and replace with either K. Rool or Mewtwo and that's pretty much the roster I'm expecting.

I literally said in my post that you could replace Ridley with someone else. Very likely we'll see Mewtwo instead of Ridley. Not changing a thing either way considering how I said this is my final roster before E3. Not letting myself or anyone else change that!

 

[Kenith]

Oh, for a demonstration outside the game to explain the concept of Global Smash Power?

What else was he going to use to visually demonstrate something that reflects the actual players rather than the characters or the game itself? Octoroks?

It doesn't matter whether or not it is obvious; it still represents the player, rather than a character.

Which has historically been what disconfirmed characters in the past.

 

[Bauske]

Helps to actually examine which characters are green. They're all the confirmed characters.

I literally said in my post that you could replace Ridley with someone else. Very likely we'll see Mewtwo instead of Ridley. Not changing a thing either way considering how I said this is my final roster before E3. Not letting myself or anyone else change that!

I know. And I wasn't ignoring that. I was just saying in inclusion to Ridley, Ike seems on the fence as well. No ill will intended!

 

[Kenith]

I know. And I wasn't ignoring that. I was just saying in inclusion to Ridley, Ike seems on the fence as well. No ill will intended!

I will just quote myself.

"I don't expect Ike to go anywhere. He has absolutely no reason too. Protagonist of two games, his descendant's in a third (and he is also DLC in that game), a unique playstyle...cut just to be replaced by someone with none of those traits who is a clone of him?"

Assuming you expect Chrom instead.

 

[Morbi]

I will just quote myself.

"I don't expect Ike to go anywhere. He has absolutely no reason too. Protagonist of two games, descendant in a third, a unique playstyle...cut just to be replaced by someone with none of those traits who is a clone of him?"

Assuming you expect Chrom instead.

Basically this. The only justification for Ike's removal is a fallacious arbitrary fan pattern.

 

[Second Power]

Here's a new roster, but it has a twist. It includes DLC characters *gasp*

Spoiler: Long as hell

Color coding for main roster:
Blue = Veteran
Red = Confirmed Newcomer
Green = Sal Newcomer
Yellow = Unconfirmed Newcomer (Ganondorf is now Swordorf)

Color coding for DLC:
Blue = Completely unique character
Red = Semi clone (mostly same A-attacks as another character, and mostly different specials).
Green = Semi clone (mostly same specials as another character, and mostly different A-attacks).
Yellow = Full clone

I picked DLC characters based on 3 criteria.

1. Is popular but not main roster material.
2. Will be featured in an incoming game (made a couple assumptions).
3. Was cut prior.

Dixie Kong falls under criteria one. Is based on Diddy Kong.
Bowser Jr. falls under criteria one.
Dr. Mario falls under criteria three.
Masked Link (criteria 3 and maybe 2) has unique mechanics. He transforms with his specials, and from there, can do one of three attacks based on directional input, giving him 10 specials in total. Has the same A-attacks as YL.
Impa (criteria 2) pulls moves from both Sheik and Link (because she has a sword now?), with magic based specials.
Sylux (criteria 2, teaser at the end of Prime 3) gets its moves from Samus.
Lucina (criteria 1) doesn't have a single original move... Instead, she pulls moves from both Marth and Chrom, forming a unique amalgamation.
Masked Man doesn't really fall under a criteria, but could be one I guess. Just needed another Mother rep because it made my organization look pretty.
Medusa (criteria 1 but only because I don't see KI getting two newcomers) takes her A-attacks from Palutena (restyled with dark effects).
Dark Pit (criteria 1, with bias) takes A-attacks from Pit.
Black Shadow (criteria 1) takes Falcondorf, but gets revamped to be more grab orientated. Straight Falcondorf simply won't work in an enviroment without L-Canceling and wave landing.
Newcomer (criteria 2) from Miyamoto's new IP. Or whatever else newly released character they want to put.
Sceptile falls under criteria 2.
Pichu falls under 3.
Bandanna Dee falls under 1.

I forgot Ivy + Squirtle, so just imagine them there. I've already made three revisions while typing this.

inb4 no ridley 0/10

Critique? I recognize that there's a lot of bias, but when there's 66 character in total, you start to struggle with picks, so if you have better ideas, please tell me (100% sincere).

 

[Spinosaurus]

My roster would be the confirmed characters + Sal leak + all Brawl veterans (+Mewtwo and yes including Snake) + Bowser Jr./Takamaru.

Funny how this roster could be considered safe as hell, but hey I'm making a prediction here.

 

[Kenith]

My roster would be the confirmed characters + Sal leak + all Brawl veterans (+Mewtwo and yes including Snake) + Bowser Jr./Takamaru.

Funny how this roster could be considered safe as hell, but hey I'm making a prediction here.

I don't make straight predictions anymore. Mainly because you are talked down to if you don't conform.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I will just quote myself.

"I don't expect Ike to go anywhere. He has absolutely no reason too. Protagonist of two games, his descendant's in a third (and he is also DLC in that game), a unique playstyle...cut just to be replaced by someone with none of those traits who is a clone of him?"

Assuming you expect Chrom instead.

I'll argue because, why not?
Shouldn't matter much at the decision of bring veterans back
May I point out: who are most likely cut now and Ivysaur will probably not have his moveset passed to a newcomer.
Do you have more valuable reasons, I still think he's low priority.

My roster would be the confirmed characters + Sal leak + all Brawl veterans (+Mewtwo and yes including Snake) + Bowser Jr./Takamaru.

Funny how this roster could be considered safe as hell, but hey I'm making a prediction here.

Good luck to you then, you'll most likely get a big strike on your prediction roster when E3 arrives.

 

[Deleted member]

Personal preference: Remove Ike or Ridley (not because I dislike them, I just don't see them as likely) and replace with either K. Rool or Mewtwo and that's pretty much the roster I'm expecting.

Why is Ike unlikely? I mean, he was the lord of the past two games and he's extremely popular in Smash. Plus I don't see Sakurai outright replacing Ike; that'd go against Sakurai's uniqueness philosophy.

 

[Morbi]

Here's a new roster, but it has a twist. It includes DLC characters *gasp*

Spoiler: Long as hell

Color coding for main roster:
Blue = Veteran
Red = Confirmed Newcomer
Green = Sal Newcomer
Yellow = Unconfirmed Newcomer (Ganondorf is now Swordorf)

Color coding for DLC:
Blue = Completely unique character
Red = Semi clone (mostly same A-attacks as another character, and mostly different specials).
Green = Semi clone (mostly same specials as another character, and mostly different A-attacks).
Yellow = Full clone

I picked DLC characters based on 3 criteria.

1. Is popular but not main roster material.
2. Will be featured in an incoming game (made a couple assumptions).
3. Was cut prior.

Dixie Kong falls under criteria one. Is based on Diddy Kong.
Bowser Jr. falls under criteria one.
Dr. Mario falls under criteria three.
Masked Link (criteria 3 and maybe 2) has unique mechanics. He transforms with his specials, and from there, can do one of three attacks based on directional input, giving him 10 specials in total. Has the same A-attacks as YL.
Impa (criteria 2) pulls moves from both Sheik and Link (because she has a sword now?), with magic based specials.
Sylux (criteria 2, teaser at the end of Prime 3) gets its moves from Samus.
Lucina (criteria 1) doesn't have a single original move... Instead, she pulls moves from both Marth and Chrom, forming a unique amalgamation.
Masked Man doesn't really fall under a criteria, but could be one I guess. Just needed another Mother rep because it made my organization look pretty.
Medusa (criteria 1 but only because I don't see KI getting two newcomers) takes her A-attacks from Palutena (restyled with dark effects).
Dark Pit (criteria 1, with bias) takes A-attacks from Pit.
Black Shadow (criteria 1) takes Falcondorf, but gets revamped to be more grab orientated. Straight Falcondorf simply won't work in an enviroment without L-Canceling and wave landing.
Newcomer (criteria 2) from Miyamoto's new IP. Or whatever else newly released character they want to put.
Sceptile falls under criteria 2.
Pichu falls under 3.
Bandanna Dee falls under 1.

I forgot Ivy + Squirtle, so just imagine them there. I've already made three revisions while typing this.

inb4 no ridley 0/10

Critique? I recognize that there's a lot of bias, but when there's 66 character in total, you start to struggle with picks, so if you have better ideas, please tell me (100% sincere).

Sworddorf? 0/10

I am confused on Masked Link in addition to the notion that Legend of Zelda would get 2 DLC characters.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't make straight predictions anymore. Mainly because you are talked down to if you don't conform.

I don't like doing that either, but eh E3 is close and we'll like know the full roster this summer so I figured at the very least go with something pretty safe.

Though there's gonna be some eye shifting at Bowser Jr/Takamaru over K.Rool or whoever else. I'm doing this for fun and see if I actually get it right lol.

 

[Morbi]

My straight predictions are: Mewtwo and Ridley as they are completely and utterly obvious choices.

After that, just one of these would be great: Ganon, Hades, or Black Shadow

 

[Second Power]

Sworddorf? 0/10

I am confused on Masked Link in addition to the notion that Legend of Zelda would get 2 DLC characters.

2 DLC characters does make sense if Majora's Mask 3D ever gets announced. Masked Link is basically Young Link cashing in on MM's popularity. Of course, all this is predicated on MM getting remake. Like I said, assumptions. Not only that, but the only other series I can put in that slot without ****ing the organization is a second Xenoblade rep. Actually, with X coming out, that might work. Use the protagonist from that. Should I change it?

 

[Morbi]

2 DLC characters does make sense if Majora's Mask 3D ever gets announced. Masked Link is basically Young Link cashing in on MM's popularity. Of course, all this is predicated on MM getting remake. Like I said, assumptions. Not only that, but the only other series I can put in that slot without ****ing the organization is a second Xenoblade rep. Actually, with X coming out, that might work. Use the protagonist from that. Should I change it?

I am not sure; Masked Link just seems odd as transformations aren't happening (and 3rd Link blah blah), and even if you transformed in a different way (such as what I believe you were insinuating), that is a lot of development time for one DLC character. I would change it, but what do I know?

 

[Deleted member]

Although I am a big fan of the Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man (everyone thinks he's creepy, I've watched every episode of the show and I actually find him an adorable doofus), I would totally be okay with this version of Pac-Man. It's insanely classic, perfect proportions, and pleasing to everyone, it seems. I don't have a preference; Pac-Man in is a good thing regardless for me. But the version you showed is my second-most wanted version of him.

I actually wouldn't mind a Pac-Man Monsters version of him either.

Pac-Man has...brown arms?!? Its Sonic Boom all over again! Why does he have brown arms?!

In all seriousness, I'd actually be OK with that. I'd be OK with anything not Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man (You already know that by now though)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Please, let's not have another mii discussion... why not talk about Shulk instead?

Shulk is a generic RPG protagonist from a one-shot RPG that sold horribly and is too recent, a no name guy like him will never work!

Also he's British. Those silly men with their tea, top hats, and rotting teeth, NOBODY wants to play as that crap!

 

[Second Power]

I am not sure; Masked Link just seems odd as transformations aren't happening (and 3rd Link blah blah), and even if you transformed in a different way (such as what I believe you were insinuating), that is a lot of development time for one DLC character. I would change it, but what do I know?

To go more into depth: You start the special, the model changes accordingly, input a second directional for the actual attack you do in that form, go through with the attack, and change back. Getting hit at any point during this process 'knocks the mask off', and you go back to YL. You don't have full movesets in the other forms, just get to choose between three attacks (think Little Mac's F-Smash). It really isn't multiple movesets, just an extended (rules lawyering to get past 'no transformations') one. I can see the point about the work however. I'll change it (not going to reupload for the time being).