Character Discussion Thread

[Rymi]

While I like Klonoa and think he's a cool character, and would actually enjoy him being playable, there's no way they're going to give the slot to him over Namco's own mascot. Trust me, they can make up a moveset for Pac-Man. It might be what we're all expecting and involve rev-rolling, butt bouncing and Pac-Dot chains, but at the same time, they could be creative about it and pull moves from his history of games (Pac-In-Time, Pac-Man 2, Pac-Land, etc.) or they could pull moves that reference classic Namco games, like Dig Dug, Galaga, Rally X, or Tower of Druaga. I think a lot of people are expecting a boring moveset and a boring character, but knowing how awesome Sakurai is to most of the characters (that aren't clones), I think he'll make Pac-Man a pretty exciting and fun addition.

i know just a thought they could put both in but i highly doubt it and if he does put him in then it's dosent bother me much

 

[Kenith]

I have yet to be convinced Pac-Man will be in this game.

But I can't talk about it because I get treated like a blasphemous fool for either

A) not believing a leak
B) not seeing how Pacman being the "saviour" of the game industry justifies his inclusion in Smash Bros.
C) not caring that Pacman's Shigeru Miyamoto's "favorite" video game icon

 

[Starcutter]

I think that Pacman will be a Special Flag summon.

pretty much because I don't see Namco getting a whole category of assist items AND a playable character. that's too much.

 

[Pacack]

I have yet to be convinced Pac-Man will be in this game.

But I can't talk about it because I get treated like a blasphemous fool for either

A) not believing a leak
B) not seeing how Pacman being the "saviour" of the game industry justifies his inclusion in Smash Bros.
C) not caring that Pacman's Shigeru Miyamoto's "favorite" video game icon

All of those are questionable points.

The fact that Sakurai has literally been confirmed to be in some sort of negotiations with Bandai-Namco isn't something to ignore, though. Nor is the fact that Sakurai is working closely with Bandai-Namco, making this a possible "special case" like Snake in Brawl.

 

[Kenith]

All of those are questionable points.

The fact that Sakurai has literally been confirmed to be in some sort of negotiations with Bandai-Namco isn't something to ignore, though. Nor is the fact that Sakurai is working closely with Bandai-Namco, making this a possible "special case" like Snake in Brawl.

Source?
If you're referring to what we already know, which is Bandai-Namco helping with the game, Sakurai basically said not to get your hopes up for a Namco character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Source?
If you're referring to what we already know, which is Bandai-Namco helping with the game, Sakurai basically said not to get your hopes up for a Namco character.

This doesn't convince you?:

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm not particularly fond of the idea of Pac-Man and I sometimes think that his importance can sometimes be overstated. However there are enough fair points in regards to him that I would at least acknowledge him as a possiblity.

 

[Kenith]

This doesn't convince you?:

This doesn't confirm much, sans that there are Namco Bandai...items? ATs? Do we even know?

Like I said before, this works against him in my opinion because those are Namco properties not related to Pacman, but they are old-school arcade games, assuming there is a pattern, the next one would be Pacman.

 

[Pacack]

Source?
If you're referring to what we already know, which is Bandai-Namco helping with the game, Sakurai basically said not to get your hopes up for a Namco character.

That's my source. You don't get to use Namco's intellectual property unless you've been in some sort of negotiations with Namco.

“Just because the game is being cooperatively developed with Namco Bandai involved, that doesn’t at all mean that they’d be given any special consideration for having characters in the game. Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation.”

“Adding third-party characters should be considered a very special case. In the last game, when we added Sonic and Snake, there were lots of different hoops to jump through as far as getting approvals and making sure all the parties involved were happy with the way things went. You can consider it a very special circumstance for that to happen. Even in cases like adding Pokemon characters, there are a lot of parties involved and there’s a lot of wrangling. It’s much tougher than people can imagine. I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation.”

I'd say the most legendary video game character of all time (bar arguably Mario) is a "very special situation". The characters that this quote affected were Lloyd Irving, Klonoa, and all those other Namco characters that aren't named Pac-Man.

 

[Kenith]

You guys are literally proving my point.

 

[Morbi]

That's my source. You don't get to use Namco's intellectual property unless you've been in some sort of negotiations with Namco.

“Just because the game is being cooperatively developed with Namco Bandai involved, that doesn’t at all mean that they’d be given any special consideration for having characters in the game. Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation.”

“Adding third-party characters should be considered a very special case. In the last game, when we added Sonic and Snake, there were lots of different hoops to jump through as far as getting approvals and making sure all the parties involved were happy with the way things went. You can consider it a very special circumstance for that to happen. Even in cases like adding Pokemon characters, there are a lot of parties involved and there’s a lot of wrangling. It’s much tougher than people can imagine. I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation.”

I'd say the most legendary video game character of all time (bar arguably Mario) is a "very special situation". The characters that this quote affected were Lloyd Irving, Klonoa, and all those other Namco characters that aren't named Pac-Man.

I do agree with this sentiment; Pac-Man would be one of the special situations and Namco co-developing the game only reaffirms this notion. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Pac-Man is all but confirmed. I feel as though one of the most detrimental aspects of the characters is an uninspired move-set. He doesn't have a lot of unique characteristics to draw from in my opinion. If Sakurai doesn't think of something decent, he probably wont advocate for the character.

 

[Pacack]

You guys are literally proving my point.

Tell me how so by actually responding to the post I made instead of being pretentious and ignoring it entirely.

 

[Kenith]

Tell me how so by actually responding to the post I made instead of being pretentious and ignoring it entirely.

I read your entire post. You just copy-pasted and re-instated what Sakurai said.

You don't have to let your Pac-Man love reduce you to name-calling and accusations.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You guys are literally proving my point.

No they're not, PacMan is likely, you're just grasping at straws

 

[Morbi]

I have yet to be convinced Pac-Man will be in this game.

But I can't talk about it because I get treated like a blasphemous fool for either

A) not believing a leak
B) not seeing how Pacman being the "saviour" of the game industry justifies his inclusion in Smash Bros.
C) not caring that Pacman's Shigeru Miyamoto's "favorite" video game icon

A) The leak doesn't have anything to do with Pac-Man's chance as a playable character.
B) Apparently R.O.B was added for being the "savior" of the gaming industry, so there is a precedent to support that premise.
C) No one cares that it is his "favorite" video game icon.

 

[Kenith]

A) The leak doesn't have anything to do with Pac-Man's chance as a playable character.
B) Apparently R.O.B was added for being the "savior" of the gaming industry, so there is a precedent to support that premise.
C) No one cares that it is his "favorite" video game icon.

I'm just re-instating what people have used to support his inclusion.
I know they're all ridiculous.

 

[Pacack]

I do agree with this sentiment; Pac-Man would be one of the special situations and Namco co-developing the game only reaffirms this notion. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Pac-Man is all but confirmed. I feel as though one of the most detrimental aspects of the characters is an uninspired move-set. He doesn't have a lot of unique characteristics to draw from in my opinion. If Sakurai doesn't think of something decent, he probably wont advocate for the character.

Note: I never said he was all but confirmed. There is indeed the possibility of him being merely a summon or something.

(Though I do think it's far more likely that Sakurai went through negotiations that he's mentioned having difficulty with before to get Pac-Man as a character and to get Namco an item than Sakurai doing the same thing for an item and nothing more.)

I read your entire post. You just copy-pasted and re-instated what Sakurai said.

You don't have to let your Pac-Man love reduce you to name-calling and accusations.

You are ignoring my commentary on said points. Would you be kind enough to explain how I am "literally proving [your] point"? I wouldn't be upset if you didn't brush off my comments entirely.

 

[Kenith]

I'm not doing this today.
I'm not doing this tomorrow, or the next day, or the next week.

No one ever agrees on anything. Everyone gets fired up over nothing.

I have better things to do than argue about a character I liked five months ago.

 

[Morbi]

Note: I never said he was all but confirmed. There is indeed the possibility of him being merely a summon or something.

(Though I do think it's far more likely that Sakurai went through negotiations that he's mentioned having difficulty with before to get Pac-Man as a character and an item rather than an item and nothing more, but; hey, what do I know?)


You are ignoring my commentary on said points. Would you be kind enough to explain how I am "literally proving [your] point"? I wouldn't be upset if you didn't brush off my comments entirely.

Technically you were inadvertently supporting his argument as he asserts that classic arcade characters are merely summon characters. It is irrefutable that classic Pac-Man is the most iconic variant of Pac-Man, so he probably believes that 2D Pac-Man is more logical as an item rather than 3D Pac-Man as a playable character. That way Pac-Man is represented in the game in another way than "playable," but he is still acknowledged. Not only that, but most people want him in for his Final Smash, if he was an item, Sakurai wouldn't have to bother with making a move-set, he could just run around and eat players and pellets.

 

[Starcutter]

That's my source. You don't get to use Namco's intellectual property unless you've been in some sort of negotiations with Namco.

“Just because the game is being cooperatively developed with Namco Bandai involved, that doesn’t at all mean that they’d be given any special consideration for having characters in the game. Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation.”

“Adding third-party characters should be considered a very special case. In the last game, when we added Sonic and Snake, there were lots of different hoops to jump through as far as getting approvals and making sure all the parties involved were happy with the way things went. You can consider it a very special circumstance for that to happen. Even in cases like adding Pokemon characters, there are a lot of parties involved and there’s a lot of wrangling. It’s much tougher than people can imagine. I know lots of people have requests and their own ideas about third-party characters that would work, but I want people to understand that adding a third-party character like Mega Man is a very special situation.”

I'd say the most legendary video game character of all time (bar arguably Mario) is a "very special situation". The characters that this quote affected were Lloyd Irving, Klonoa, and all those other Namco characters that aren't named Pac-Man.

I think that Pacman will be a Special Flag summon.

pretty much because I don't see Namco getting a whole category of assist items AND a playable character. that's too much to be given to a third party.

like I said here, the special flag actually HINDERS pacman, because it shows Sakurai isn't thanking Namco with a character, but instead with an item. it's really just something to say thanks. they wouldn't be doing this if pacman was in.

 

[Kenith]

Technically you were inadvertently supporting his argument as he asserts that classic arcade characters are merely summon characters. It is irrefutable that classic Pac-Man is the most iconic variant of Pac-Man, so he probably believes that 2D Pac-Man is more logical as an item rather than 3D Pac-Man as a playable character. That way Pac-Man is represented in the game in another way than "playable," but he is still acknowledged. Not only that, but most people want him in for his Final Smash, if he was an item, Sakurai wouldn't have to bother with making a move-set, he could just run around and eat players and pellets.

Thank you, that's exactly what I mean to say, it's just far to exhausting to explain it because I assume it was obvious what I mean.

 

[Richard Nixon]

I don't think the special flag item necessarily impacts Pac-Man in one way or the other. Or, rather, that it's just too ambiguous to tell what it means for Pac-Man. With a situation like this, it's not as simple as item = playable character. For all we know, the special flag could be Sakurai's way of giving thanks/recognition to Namco - it could be the only thanks/recognition Namco is getting in this game, and I'd say that's certainly fair enough. Playable Pac-Man could come with the item, but he could just as easily not.

However, if Namco does get a playable character in Smash 4, there's no way it'll be anyone other than Pac-Man. I wish I could argue otherwise, since I love Klonoa to bits, but realistically Pac-Man is the only Namco character with any chance whatsoever.

 

[Pacack]

I'm not doing this today.
I'm not doing this tomorrow, or the next day, or the next week.

No one ever agrees on anything. Everyone gets fired up over nothing.

I have better things to do than argue about a character I liked five months ago.

Again, you're ignoring my points entirely and not explaining anything to me.

If you think I "proved your point" by "treating you like a blasphemous fool", please keep in mind that I have not treated any of your counterpoints as blasphemous because you literally have not given me a single counterpoint.

Technically you were inadvertently supporting his argument as he asserts that classic arcade characters are merely summon characters. It is irrefutable that classic Pac-Man is the most iconic variant of Pac-Man, so he probably believes that 2D Pac-Man is more logical as an item rather than 3D Pac-Man as a playable character. That way Pac-Man is represented in the game in another way than "playable," but he is still acknowledged. Not only that, but most people want him in for his Final Smash, if he was an item, Sakurai wouldn't have to bother with making a move-set, he could just run around and eat players and pellets.

like I said here, the special flag actually HINDERS pacman, because it shows Sakurai isn't thanking Namco with a character, but instead with an item. it's really just something to say thanks. they wouldn't be doing this if pacman was in.

Here's the thing, though. Whether Sakurai includes Pac-Man as an item or a character, he has to go through the "hoops" of getting the rights to use that character, which he has stated was the most difficult part of his job before. Why would he do that for anything less than a playable character?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

like I said here, the special flag actually HINDERS pacman, because it shows Sakurai isn't thanking Namco with a character, but instead with an item. it's really just something to say thanks. they wouldn't be doing this if pacman was in.

Oh quit gripin', Sakurai's just waiting for the right time to announce him.

 

[Kenith]

Here's the thing, though. Whether Sakurai includes Pac-Man as an item or a character, he has to go through the "hoops" of getting the rights to use that character, which he has stated was the most difficult part of his job before. Why would he do that for anything less than a playable character?

Because Bandai Namco is partly working on the game themselves, unlike Sega and Capcom, or possibly Konami.
There's a lot less hassle involved with including an old sprite as an item as opposed to including a company mascot as a fighter.

 

[Morbi]

Again, you're ignoring my points entirely and not explaining anything to me.

If you think I "proved your point" by "treating you like a blasphemous fool", please keep in mind that I have not treated any of your counterpoints as blasphemous because you literally have not given me a single counterpoint.




Here's the thing, though. Whether Sakurai includes Pac-Man as an item or a character, he has to go through the "hoops" of getting the rights to use that character, which he has stated was the most difficult part of his job before. Why would he do that for anything less than a playable character?

It isn't as difficult as it would be under normal circumstances because Namco is co-developing the game. I am not even sure if he has to acquire the license to be honest, Namco already has it. But lets pretend he did, he is clearly acquiring the right to use the license for all of these other iconic 2D arcade characters, they are clearly not playable. Thus, there is precedent to show that he "would do that for anything less than a playable character."

 

[Pacack]

Because Bandai Namco is partly working on the game themselves, unlike Sega and Capcom, or possibly Konami.
There's a lot less hassle involved with including an old sprite as an item as opposed to including a company mascot as a fighter.

I understand that viewpoint even if I disagree with it. Thank you for explaining your opinion.

It isn't as difficult as it would be under normal circumstances because Namco is co-developing the game. I am not even sure if he has to acquire the license to be honest, Namco already has it. But lets pretend he did, he is clearly acquiring the right to use the license for all of these other iconic 2D arcade characters, they are clearly not playable. Thus, there is precedent to show that he "would do that for anything less than a playable character."

Character+Item > Character > Item

That's what I mean by "anything less than a playable character".

 

[Louie G.]

I believe that Pac-Man will be in the game because he is Namco-Bandai's mascot.
There, I said it. That's the main reason I find him so likely and I believe that everyone else feels this way too. If NB was not working on the game I probably wouldn't consider Pac, but they are so there's that.
You could bring up the "special treatment" argument but I feel that was directed towards characters like Lloyd Irving and Klonoa rather than Pac-Man. Pac is a gaming icon, and having him fight against Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man isn't doing Namco a favor, but doing Nintendo a favor. A battle between 4 of the biggest gaming icons of all time would be incredible and it's one of the big reasons why Pac-Man should be included.

And it's entirely possible that Sonic and Mega Man get items that we haven't seen yet, for the record.

 

[Kenith]

I believe that Pac-Man will be in the game because he is Namco-Bandai's mascot.
There, I said it. That's the main reason I find him so likely and I believe that everyone else feels this way too. If NB was not working on the game I probably wouldn't consider Pac, but they are so there's that.
You could bring up the "special treatment" argument but I feel that was directed towards characters like Lloyd Irving and Klonoa rather than Pac-Man. Pac is a gaming icon, and having him fight against Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man isn't doing Namco a favor, but doing Nintendo a favor. A battle between 4 of the biggest gaming icons of all time would be incredible and it's one of the big reasons why Pac-Man should be included.

And it's entirely possible that Sonic and Mega Man get items that we haven't seen yet, for the record.

Why would that statement be directed at those characters? Pacman was brought up into the discussion immediately before Sakurai said that. Or after. I don't remember.

 

[Pacack]

I believe that Pac-Man will be in the game because he is Namco-Bandai's mascot.
There, I said it. That's the main reason I find him so likely and I believe that everyone else feels this way too. If NB was not working on the game I probably wouldn't consider Pac, but they are so there's that.
You could bring up the "special treatment" argument but I feel that was directed towards characters like Lloyd Irving and Klonoa rather than Pac-Man. Pac is a gaming icon, and having him fight against Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man isn't doing Namco a favor, but doing Nintendo a favor. A battle between 4 of the biggest gaming icons of all time would be incredible and it's one of the big reasons why Pac-Man should be included.

And it's entirely possible that Sonic and Mega Man get items that we haven't seen yet, for the record.

Pac-Man had no chance of becoming playable until Sakurai and Namco-Bandai started working together. Even I recognize that.

Why would that statement be directed at those characters? Pacman was brought up into the discussion immediately before Sakurai said that. Or after. I don't remember.

Neither, actually. If so, it would be more than reasonable for that statement to be applying to Pac-Man. But the two quotes I gave were all he said in the interview about Namco.

 

[Morbi]

I believe that Pac-Man will be in the game because he is Namco-Bandai's mascot.
There, I said it. That's the main reason I find him so likely and I believe that everyone else feels this way too. If NB was not working on the game I probably wouldn't consider Pac, but they are so there's that.
You could bring up the "special treatment" argument but I feel that was directed towards characters like Lloyd Irving and Klonoa rather than Pac-Man. Pac is a gaming icon, and having him fight against Mario, Sonic, and Mega Man isn't doing Namco a favor, but doing Nintendo a favor. A battle between 4 of the biggest gaming icons of all time would be incredible and it's one of the big reasons why Pac-Man should be included.

And it's entirely possible that Sonic and Mega Man get items that we haven't seen yet, for the record.

I would like to believe that a character needs more merit than just their prominence; but perhaps you are right. I wouldn't put it past Sakurai.

 

[Rymi]

Why would that statement be directed at those characters? Pacman was brought up into the discussion immediately before Sakurai said that. Or after. I don't remember.

And just becaause he's the posterboy dosent mean he gets in the game sakuraisaid himself namco doesent get much of a say in characters for the game it's just up to the team

 

[Louie G.]

Why would that statement be directed at those characters? Pacman was brought up into the discussion immediately before Sakurai said that. Or after. I don't remember.

We'll again, Pac-Man wouldn't be "special treatment" since he's a deserving video game character in his own right.
Sakurai said that Namco characters don't get special treatment, which is overencompassing. Even if they brought up Pac-Man in the interview, he wouldn't be a case of special treatment since it would pretty much be an honor to have Pac-Man in the game to begin with, and Namco is literally right there with the rights to Pac.
I'd be surprised if Sakurai didn't jump on the opportunity to have the most iconic video game character ever in Smash Bros. Pac-Man doesn't need special treatment to be a Smash Bros character: he's a legend, which is what Sakurai wants in his 3rd parties.

 

[Kenith]

Neither, actually. If so, it would be more than reasonable for that statement to be applying to Pac-Man. But the two quotes I gave were all he said in the interview about Namco.

Regardless, he is still likely referring to Pacman, as is the most speculated and asked about Namco character.

 

[Cobalsh]

Because Bandai Namco is partly working on the game themselves, unlike Sega and Capcom, or possibly Konami.
There's a lot less hassle involved with including an old sprite as an item as opposed to including a company mascot as a fighter.

You know, you haven't given any good reasons he can't be a playable character, just reasons you don't like him. It's kind of hard to agree to what you're saying with all the bias involved in it.

 

[Morbi]

The special treatment quote was most likely directed at these people:
"If you thought that Nintendo’s collaboration for Namco Bandai with the new Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS games would open the floodgates for all sorts of third-party characters, you’ll be disappointed to hear that this isn’t the case. Chances are we won’t be seeing any characters from Tekken, Tales, or any other series."

People who wanted multiple Namco representatives, people that wanted obscure Namco representatives and people that wanted multiple obscure Namco representatives.

I HIGHLY doubt that was directed at Pac-Man.

 

[Kenith]

We'll again, Pac-Man wouldn't be "special treatment" since he's a deserving video game character in his own right.
Sakurai said that Namco characters don't get special treatment, which is overencompassing. Even if they brought up Pac-Man in the interview, he wouldn't be a case of special treatment since it would pretty much be an honor to have Pac-Man in the game to begin with, and Namco is literally right there with the rights to Pac.
I'd be surprised if Sakurai didn't jump on the opportunity to have the most iconic video game character ever in Smash Bros. Pac-Man doesn't need special treatment to be a Smash Bros character: he's a legend, which is what Sakurai wants in his 3rd parties.

Wait; are you seriously saying that because Pacman is a game legend, that he automatically gets in? Bypassing all criteria for playable characters because he's freaking Pacman and it's an honor to have him?

What?

 

[Starcutter]

Here's the thing, though. Whether Sakurai includes Pac-Man as an item or a character, he has to go through the "hoops" of getting the rights to use that character, which he has stated was the most difficult part of his job before. Why would he do that for anything less than a playable character?

To thank the company that is helping him by doing HOURS upon HOURS of work for a project that has little to do with the company.


Counterpoint! why would Sakurai go through all the hoops for the Galaga aliens, which are confirmed in the game, to be only an item?! It must not be nearly as hard as you are saying to obtain copyrights from a business partner, correct?

Oh quit gripin', Sakurai's just waiting for the right time to announce him.

wow, really? no counterpoint?

A true gentleman always accepts the facts, as long as they are solid enough. Therefore, one usually has proof backing up their personal hypothesis. Tell me, why are you so certain of this?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wait; are you seriously saying that because Pacman is a game legend, that he automatically gets in? Bypassing all criteria for playable characters because he's freaking Pacman and it's an honor to have him?

What?

Well, it helped Sonic.

 

[Louie G.]

Wait; are you seriously saying that because Pacman is a game legend, that he automatically gets in? Bypassing all criteria for playable characters because he's freaking Pacman and it's an honor to have him?

What?

Alright, let's go through why Pac-Man deserves it, then.

Ever since the arcade days, Pac-Man has been alongside Nintendo machines. Ever see Class of 81 arcade machines? Donkey Kong is prominently featured among Ms. Pac-Man and Galaga, two games directly tied to Pac-Man (Galaga and Pac-Man go hand in hand).
Namco was also a supporter of the NES. Many Namco games were included on the NES, among them an arcade port of Pac-Man. Cut to many years later, when a Pac-Man game had appeared in nearly every Nintendo console created and still continues to do so (don't complain about quality or else I'll bring up Sonic ).
Pac-Man appeared in a Mario Kart arcade game, and Pac-Man Vs for the GameCube was developed by none other than Shigeru Miyamoto.
And now Smash is being co-developed by Namco, which is essentially icing on the cake.

But he could very well get in anyway because he's freaking Pac-Man.