Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

I think many people are already resigned to the good chance that there won't be any Newcomers besides the ones in the Sal leak, so they're already looking ahead to possible DLC as a way to save their favorites' chances.

I expect other characters not pertaining to the Sal leak, that is for certain; but I suppose I could see why others would feel as though their last hope for a decent character would be DLC.

 

[Cobalsh]

That's possible. But what Xenoblaze said was "I don't see Shulk being thrown out." This statement assumes that Shulk is already in the game, despite there being no official word on the matter or definite proof that he is. So while it is possible that Shulk was considered, partially made, and then scrapped, there is no way we could know of such at this point in time.

Just saying.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Nah we got proof thats the gliding is back here. Charizards glide landing animation.

Or that could just be Charizard being knocked down while it's facing downwards.

 

[Cobalsh]

Didn't Sakurai say gliding won't return for Charizard in the Direct?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Didn't Sakurai say gliding won't return for Charizard in the Direct?

He said gliding won't return for Pit.

 

[Cobalsh]

He said gliding won't return for Pit.

Ah. I forgot he glided, too.

 

[False Sense]

So, Brittany is de-confirmed, huh? I guess that rules out a Pikmin 3 rep.

 

[FlareHabanero]

So, Brittany is de-confirmed, huh? I guess that rules out a Pikmin 3 rep.

It wasn't going to happen, considering whatever they were going to do Olimar was going to do it anyway.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He said gliding won't return for Pit.

One still needs to consider if gliding is removed altogether, though this could be problematic for Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop, and its gliding effects.

 

[Baskerville]

One still needs to consider if gliding is removed altogether, though this could be problematic for Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop, and its gliding effects.

It is possible that gliding will only be a part of specials instead of being apart of a character's jump.

 

[OblivionWolf]

Or that could just be Charizard being knocked down while it's facing downwards.

No thats his glide landing animation for sure unless Sakurai took that animation and used it for something else. I doubt that.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

No thats his glide landing animation for sure unless Sakurai took that animation and used it for something else. I doubt that.

Actually, Charizard's glide landing animation ends with the "exact same" animation that Charizard uses when it's knocked down and facing downwards.

The GlideLanding animation switches over to the DownWaitD animation.

 

[OblivionWolf]

Actually, Charizard's glide landing animation ends with the "exact same" animation that Charizard uses when it's knocked down and facing downwards.

The GlideLanding animation switches over to the DownWaitD animation.

Are you sure? I can't find pictures of his animations. I was sure his eyes weren't open when knocked down. I could be wrong.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Are you sure? I can't find pictures of his animations. I was sure his eyes weren't open when knocked down. I could be wrong.

BrawlBox has your answers if you have Charizard's model and animations.

 

[Rymi]

i think they will acully have klonoa in the game if they have a namco character rather then pac-man klonoa has more moves to use then pac-ers i think

 

[Phaazoid]

Spoiler

Let's say that Sakurai plans to have fifty-four characters in the game and these are the characters:

assume that Charizard, Squirtle, and Ivysaur are in Pokémon Trainer now; separating them for convenience sake. also Marshal is Chorus Men.

Once these are decided, Sakurai proceeds with development. Everything is going along okay for the earliest parts, until Sakurai finds serious problems with making the character work with the technical limits surrounding the 3DS version. Eventually, he finds a way around with characters like Olimar and Ice Climbers, but the Pokémon Trainer is not so lucky. Because of how much criticism the Pokémon Trainer received in Brawl for being relatively poorly executed in comparison to the rest of the cast, the Pokémon Trainer is tossed away. Only Charizard survives the transition; Squirtle and Ivysaur are cut due to technical problems surrounding the Pokémon Trainer and it wasn't worth the time fixing them to get them on the initial roster.

Developments then continues with fifty-two characters; without Squirtle or Ivysaur. Unfortunately, however, the reality of time constraints hits. Despite Sakurai's best effort, he will not be able to keep everyone else on the roster. While mostly everyone on the roster are a high priority character, there are four that are not; Bowser Jr., Wolf, Ike, and Jigglypuff. They are characters that are expendable to Sakurai, but could still make it if Sakurai makes time for them. Knowing how much people loathe veteran cuts, Bowser Jr. is axed due to time constraints.

But late in development, one more cut must be made to meet the deadline. This time, he can't cut anymore newcomers; Pac-Man, Mii, Chrom, Shulk, Palutena, Chorus Men, Mewtwo, Mach Rider, and King K. Rool are all high priority newcomers that have to be in the game. He is forced to cut another veteran, a decision Sakurai wished never had to be made. It is a very difficult decision between cutting Wolf, Ike, and Jigglypuff. All of these characters were worthy additions in Brawl and Sakurai clearly felt they should all return, but they can't. Sakurai realizes that he will not be able to finish both Wolf and Ike due to it being so close to when the roster must be finalized, so he first picks Jigglypuff. Afterwards, Sakurai and his team debates intensely between which one of the two characters to cut. When the time finally came, they eventually went with Wolf. Sakurai is then force to axe Ike only a few months before development is finished...

A week before Nintendo's E3 2014, Sal Romano's tipper gives Sal the rest of the roster. Unlike previous leaks, this came from very late in development:

This leak revealed just two more newcomers; King K. Rool and Mach Rider. But an even more important development came; Sal had the final veteran roster. It had everyone on it but Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Ike and it included Mewtwo. Despite the addition of Mewtwo and King K. Rool, people denied Sal Romano's roster even more than ever. There was no Ridley, no Isaac, no Snake, and no Ike. Most of the community swore up and down that Sal Romano was a fake because these characters weren't in it. How could he not include Ridley; a character he seemingly hyped up? Where was Isaac, despite being a highly wanted character like Little Mac? Why would Sakurai and Kojima not bring back Snake? And how dare Ike was cut for Chrom; that goes against Sakurai's philosophy on uniqueness! There was booing, hissing, moaning, complaining directly to Sal/Sakurai and even sending them death threats because they refused to add their favorite character.

Then came E3 2014. It was a magnificent showing for Nintendo. Characters such as Wario and Ganondorf are seen receiving considerable changes with Wolf finally taking up an entirely unique move set (inspired by Snake's move set since he was long gone). Characters such as Palutena, Shulk, Mewtwo, and King K. Rool also generated a massive amount of hype while Mach Rider surprised mostly everyone who didn't know of the leak/didn't believe it. The roster hit a magic number of fifty, the roster number Sakurai seemed to talk about all the time. Everyone is screaming with excitement and declares Smash 3DS & Wii U to be the best title of the year, if not the generation. Massive hype surrounds the game and it seems as Nintendo was beginning to climb back to the top again.

The next day, reality hit. While people were playing in the demos of their favorite character in Best Buy, a group of four people decided to do a match between Luigi, Mega Man, Palutena, and Ice Climbers. Accidentally, they choose Pyrosphere. While fighting in the stage, they then saw something that horrified them; Ridley was a stage hazard. A massive uproar then started and everyone then demanded to know the fate of Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, and Ike. When asked by an interviewer what happened, Sakurai stated that they were cut and that the characters revealed at E3 2014 were all the characters in the game. Suddenly, the Nintendo fan base went into a rage. People threaten to not only buy the game, but also sell their Wii U because they felt betrayed by Sakurai. It was PR disaster for Nintendo as suddenly, everyone forgot how amazing yesterday was for Nintendo. Knowing how badly this would reflect on Nintendo, they would be forced to announced something they intended to keep hidden until after release...

Sakurai had realize that he said that universal roster was going to happen, no ifs, ands, or buts. Yet eventually, when he was cutting Ike, he then found out a way to return not only Ike, but also Squirtle, Ivysaur, and add back Bowser Jr. to the roster. Sakurai then proposed a plan to the group; finish up development on Squirtle, Ivysaur, Ike, and Bowser Jr. and have them ready for the initial roster on the Wii U Day 1 and at the same time, add them as free DLC on the same day. It would keep the concept of universal roster consist while still adding all the planned characters Sakurai wanted to add in the game. The plan was approved by Namco Bandai and Nintendo and as a result, they proceeded.

At the end of E3, Sakurai announced that DLC characters were going to happen and that additional characters would be on the Wii U version and at the same time, made free DLC. Despite criticism that Sakurai was selling out to the bad trends of the modern game industry, it turns out that all they had to do was to wait until the Wii U version was released. Between the release of the 3DS & Wii U version, Sakurai confirmed Ike, Ivysaur, Squirtle, and Bowser Jr. to be in the Wii U version as well as DLC at the same day. When asked, Sakurai explained that additional development time between the 3DS & Wii U version allowed them to include the remaining planned characters in the game, thus keeping the concept of universal roster consistent. The planned roster that Sakurai wanted for once, came true.

Got carried away with the story, so you don't have to read it. But yes, the way Shorts described it can definitely happen.

Let's say that they they end up having to cut a few characters (newcomers and veterans included) on the 3DS version due to technical problems or time constraints. However, because of the additional amount of time between the 3DS & Wii U version, Sakurai is able to finish up on the cut characters and include said cut characters on the Wii U version from the start while at the same time, offering them as free DLC on the 3DS version. This way, Sakurai would remain consistent with the concept of universal roster while still being able to have more characters on both versions at the end of the day. I'm not saying we'll get 5+ more characters once the Wii U is released, but two or three characters is definitely not as unlikely as people think.

Well, you definitely thought out that story a lot, but I felt like I was reading fanfiction of how you wanted the next month to go rather than a serious topic. I'll ignore all the bias (rosterisbiggerthanridley, salisliterallyjesus, ect) because that obv wasn't what you were trying to argue in your post. I'll stick to the relevant info on roster cuts.

First of all, lets... faulty assumption seems too harsh, mainly because I'm speculating as well, but lets hit a point you didn't entertain any thought in your fanfick

1. The 3DS version and the Wii U version will have a lot more exclusives than just stages

Remember the whole Smash Run thing? With the powerups and that big stage thingy and the fact that it's 3DS only? Do you expect the Wii-U version to not have it's own single player mode, that the 3DS will exclude? Because while this may still be unconfirmed, I think it is extremely likely. (and yes I know a campaign mode isn't happening, but that didn't stop smash run. I'm talking other stuff) I would bet on that more than any character inclusion, even unnanounced vets. This is what is going to be developed between versions, not characters.

2. The characters are already finished, in terms of physically working.

Let me quote a Sakurai PotD

"Mario Bros., your days are numbered! Donkey Kong in the current build is super strong...but we'll be looking at the battle records when balancing out the characters, so nobody knows how he will turn out in the end.» 02.Sep.2013"

Back in 2013, Sakurai commented on the iterative development scheme his team uses to balance the game. They playtest. They analyze results. They change characters fittingly. They playtest more. If one version of the game is coming out before the other, and the rosters are going to be the same, this means that the character development pipeline has to stop after the first game goes gold. excluding the possibility of patches (which is possible), Sakurai won't even change the current characters, let alone make new ones.

If they want to even start this process in a meaningful way, most of the characters have to be playable fairly early, which isn't hard to do, if you focus on that in development. On top of that, think to why Brawl was pushed back. Sakurai didn't cite the roster, he cited online play.

Now, Sakurai announced the rosters are going to be the same between both versions long before the release dates were put out. He simply confirmed it again in this Nintendo direct. So why split the release dates? He must have been extremely confident by this direct that he could be 100% finished with the roster by the 3DS' launch. There must be some other feature (3ds/wii u connectivity might be more intensive on the wii u end, wii u exclusive single player elements) that is pushing the Wii U version back.


And these points don't even touch Nintendo's lack of comfort with the area of DLC in general. Not that that makes it impossible, but is makes me severely doubt it.

I remain unconvinced.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

He never leaked Rosalina either. There's more to the roster than what he's revealed.

I was pointing out the fact that Sal never said Ridley, yet the person said Ridley & the other Sal-leaked characters. He was not one of them

 

[DraginHikari]

The comments that Sakurai made to Gliding was specifically towards Pit, it may not mean that the concept has been removed entirely, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if it were changed for different characters that use it.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm hoping gliding wasn't removed. As a Charizard main, it was a decent way to avoid his awful Up Special recovery.

 

[Dedede Fan!!!]

/9-Volt
Dixie,K. Rool
Kamek,Baby Bros
Vaati
Bandana Dee

Krystal
Sylux

Palutena
Chrom
Sherrif, Nester
Chibi-Robo,Marshal,Shulk
Pac-Man OR Sora

So That's It.​

Why is nobody liking this?

 

[Maxilian]

I'm hoping gliding wasn't removed. As a Charizard main, it was a decent way to avoid his awful Up Special recovery.

Well now you can use the side special and the up special to recover

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

So, Brittany is de-confirmed, huh? I guess that rules out a Pikmin 3 rep.

I always thought it should have been Alph, but Sakurai saying Brittany was his favourite could've meant something.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I say we can probably lay any more Pikmin characters in their graves now.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I always thought it should have been Alph, but Sakurai saying Brittany was his favourite could've meant something.

Not that I think Alph has a chance, but didn't Sakurai mean the trophy itself was a favorite, and not necessarily the character? The way he goes on to say the details on the model is well-designed made it seem that way.

Plus we all know Charlie is everyone's favorite.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Not that I think Alph has a chance, but didn't Sakurai mean the trophy itself was a favorite, and not necessarily the character? The way he goes on to say the details on the model is well-designed made it seem that way.

Plus we all know Charlie is everyone's favorite.

Charlie sux

Alph MasterRace

 

[Warzenschwein]

Because of shameless advertising.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Charlie sux

Alph MasterRace

Talk to me once Alph gets his own Rubber Duck.

 

[Deleted member]

@ Phaazoid - Considering that all I can do is cherry-pick your second point, might as well say you're right.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

So, looks like the Koppai Trio is dead now.
Wasn't really supporting them but sorry to the supporters.
I think we are probably getting 1 trophy each week.
I mean, Wonder Red's trophy was last week correct? And we got Dillon as an AT.
So if I'm correct, we might get a deconfirmation/trophy each week.

 

[Dairz]

Why is nobody liking this?

I don't know. Maybe because Bayleef is an atrocious choice?

 

[OblivionWolf]

Why is nobody liking this?

Sylux over Ridley. Ewwww......

 

[BluePikmin11]

Whoa there, Bayleef and other personal Pokemon you have Dedede Fan!!! is pretty unlikely unless it's a really popular Pokemon.

 

[Rockaphin]

Why is nobody liking this?

• Paper Mario, Bowser Jr., Toad > Dr. Mario. ✘
• Kamek
• Baby Bros. is a little much. ✘
• Vaati
• Mona, Captain Syrup, Orbulon > 9-Volt. ✘
• Bayleef is a strange addition. ✘
• Bandana Dee
• 4 Star Fox reps is a little much. ✘
• Sylux is kind of strange, but then again, Ridley's chances are all over there place. So sure I guess.
• Two Fire Emblem characters is rough, I think they deserve 3. ✘
• Sherrif and Nester aren't my cup of tea. I'd prefer Mach Rider or even Takamaru. ✘
• The rest is ok, Sora isn't likely at all in my eyes.

I respect who you'd like to see, but these are my opinions on your roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm hoping gliding wasn't removed. As a Charizard main, it was a decent way to avoid his awful Up Special recovery.

If gliding is altogether removed, the logical route to take is to compensate for the loss. Charizard having Flare Blitz will probably help it move across the screen, but it won't substitute gliding 100%.

 

[Niko Mar]

It is possible that gliding will only be a part of specials instead of being apart of a character's jump.

That's what I was thinking, like making Charizard's Up-B go into a glide a la Meta Knight.

 

[Phaazoid]

Why is nobody liking this?

This is the wrong thread for posting rosters, there is a designated thread for that.

@ Phaazoid - Considering that all I can do is cherry-pick your second point, might as well say you're right.

I however, hope that they decide to have downloadable content later on. As much as Nintendo doesn't generally do that, they have for some 3DS games, and fighting games are generally known for getting extra characters. Of course, on this front, anyone's guess is as good as mine, I don't think there's been any evidence one way or another that can be directly tied to it.

 

[Rockaphin]

This is the wrong thread for posting rosters, there is a designated thread for that.

It's in the Roster Prediction Thread. Well, his roster is at least.

 

[Phaazoid]

It's in the Roster Prediction Thread. Well, his roster is at least.

Oh. I saw it quoted here and assumed it was posted it here. My bad.

 

[Kalimdori]

Why is nobody liking this?

Because nobody likes it

Nah, that's mean, but your choices are... bizarre, to say the least.

 

[Bauske]

i think they will acully have klonoa in the game if they have a namco character rather then pac-man klonoa has more moves to use then pac-ers i think

While I like Klonoa and think he's a cool character, and would actually enjoy him being playable, there's no way they're going to give the slot to him over Namco's own mascot. Trust me, they can make up a moveset for Pac-Man. It might be what we're all expecting and involve rev-rolling, butt bouncing and Pac-Dot chains, but at the same time, they could be creative about it and pull moves from his history of games (Pac-In-Time, Pac-Man 2, Pac-Land, etc.) or they could pull moves that reference classic Namco games, like Dig Dug, Galaga, Rally X, or Tower of Druaga. I think a lot of people are expecting a boring moveset and a boring character, but knowing how awesome Sakurai is to most of the characters (that aren't clones), I think he'll make Pac-Man a pretty exciting and fun addition.