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God Robert's Cousin

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Here's another example, following that whole "wireframes and hitboxes only" scenario I gave.

Imagine we had a character where most of the gameplay could come from aerial grapples, where it could place large focus on controlling where the opponent is positioned. It would be an excellent aerial fighter that excels when you control the spacing between you and the opponent. To emphasize the need for this, the character would be very large and would therefore have to make sure it's not left in easy-to-punish situations. Only through controlling positioning would the character do well in fights, lest it be easily comboed otherwise. Not a lot of characters come to mind for what I'm describing. Not many except for one, probably. Despite us supposedly having another character that has many similar visual traits, these two characters would have completely different playstyles in terms of their actual gameplay, as the latter is more of a beat-down heavyweight than an aerial fighter in specific.

If a character can sound appealing on paper before you even know who they are, that's all the more reason to add them into Smash Bros., imo.
 

Gunla

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I'm talking about a potential teleport that can be used for footsies and offense, not just recovering like Mewtwo and Zelda lol.
So more akin to Spinal's teleport in the new KI?
It has a damaging form and a normal form.

I think that having an offensive teleport is always good in fighting games. KIXO is a great example of good teleports that can be used for offensive purposes and setups.

Here's another example, following that whole "wireframes and hitboxes only" scenario I gave.

Imagine we had a character where most of the gameplay could come from aerial grapples, where it could place large focus on controlling where the opponent is positioned. It would be an excellent aerial fighter that excels when you control the spacing between you and the opponent.
So more akin to an aerial version of Squigly's screen control specials? But with less screen control and more "I send you here to begin setups?"
 
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BluePikmin11

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It was shown that her Deep Breathing mechanic actually increases the power of her moves. This gives her a gameplay style that focuses on managing temporary buffs in order to make the most efficient use of her. Considering the closest we've ever had to that is Lucas's moveset in the unofficial Project M, I'd say that is a gameplay niche in its own right in SSB4.
If you want something closest to a playstyle, they could be able to switch into 5 different sports equipment that affects the Mii's stats and moveset. Boxing gloves give them faster priority on punching based moves, golf clubs would increase the range of projectiles but have weak power on melee moves, baseball bat giving extra power on projectile based moves but less range, tennis racket gives extra hitstun on certain attacks but less melee range, and bowling balls give extra strength to the Mii's normals but costs speed. If you take too long on a certain sport equipment, this will pop up next to the Mii, causing the Mii to lose their stats:

So the Mii overall would be all about switching playstyles to create a mindgame for the opponent, that's as far as I can go from a gameplay standpoint.
 

Bowserlick

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Waluigi can star in a game for anger management. Wii Therapy could have different courses for treatment. It comes with the Wii Couch.

I gave up on Paper Mario after the no transformations ordeal. I thought a partner switch that changes his specials would be ideal. Same mechanic could work for King K. Rool with his cosplay. The only Mario character I would root for now is Toad.

But I think Ridley has a BIGGER chance.
 

Gunla

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So the Mii overall would be all about switching playstyles to create a mindgame for the opponent, that's as far as I can go from a gameplay standpoint.
Just noting something, this sounds incredibly similar to a concept from Brawl that failed horribly in execution. :pt:
That concept is good, but forcing someone to switch their tactics is a bad idea in reality. In addition, for timing's sake, it would be much harder to balance. Instead of one moveset, it's like 4.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Waluigi can star in a game for anger management. Wii Therapy could have different courses for treatment. It comes with the Wii Couch.

I gave up on Paper Mario after the no transformations ordeal. I thought a partner switch that changes his specials would be ideal. Same mechanic could work for King K. Rool with his cosplay. The only Mario character I would root for now is Toad.

But I think Ridley has a BIGGER chance.
Partner switching is pretty unlikely, that could be applied to Isaac, Shulk, and other RPG character that has partners in the game. I see that as a generic idea IMO.
 

Spinosaurus

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So more akin to Spinal's teleport in the new KI?
It has a damaging form and a normal form.

I think that having an offensive teleport is always good in fighting games. KIXO is a great example of good teleports that can be used for offensive purposes and setups.
I was actually thinking more like Wesker/Phoenix/Virgil, but yeah Spinal is a good example as well. Tekken's Raven is another good one.

Teleports are one of the most fun things in fighting games if done correctly. I don't normally play many with them unfortunately, since Street Fighter is my main fighting game and I main Bison but I never, ever use his teleport lol. One of my biggest beef about Mewtwo was that his teleport was pretty much limited to recovering, and while that didn't stop me from messing with it way too much, the first thing that got me excited about Greninja was "holy **** A TELEPORT".
 
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Gunla

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@ Spinosaurus Spinosaurus
Yeah, Greninja's teleport special appears to be a move that's focused mostly on offensive tactics instead of the typical recovery fare. It's them doing something new.

It's not that great that Mewtwo's special fall restriction and non-damaging teleport made it awkward to really finish air combos. It's similar (oddly enough) to something like Bison or Fulgore's (as they are screen relative) and are more conditional than many wish they were.
I was actually thinking more like Wesker/Phoenix/Virgil, but yeah Spinal is a good example as well. Tekken's Raven is another good one.
Wesker... oh man, those teleports are a great instance of nightmare levels of teleport.
Partly why he was so good during the beginning of the UMVC3 meta.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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So more akin to an aerial version of Squigly's screen control specials? But with less screen control and more "I send you here to begin setups?"
Exactly!
If you want something closest to a playstyle, they could be able to switch into 5 different sports equipment that affects the Mii's stats and moveset. Boxing gloves give them faster priority on punching based moves, golf clubs would increase the range of projectiles but have weak power on melee moves, baseball bat giving extra power on projectile based moves but less range, tennis racket gives extra hitstun on certain attacks but less melee range, and bowling balls give extra strength to the Mii's normals but costs speed. If you take too long on a certain sport equipment, this will pop up next to the Mii, causing the Mii to lose their stats:

So the Mii overall would be all about switching playstyles to create a mindgame for the opponent, that's as far as I can go from a gameplay standpoint.
So they'd be a stance-changing character? That'd be unique, given. The issues I see with that is how the separate of alternate forms like ZSS and Sheik may be a testament to why that wouldn't happen in this Smash Bros. Even if it doesn't, characters like Chrom (or, in less obvious examples, Shulk or a revamped Ganondorf) would potentially share the same niche, putting Miis in direct competition. They could stance-change, but a good number of other potential characters could too.

Still, I applaud the effort. It at least gives some reason to see them as viable from a gameplay standpoint.
 

BluePikmin11

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Just noting something, this sounds incredibly similar to a concept from Brawl that failed horribly in execution. :pt:
That concept is good, but forcing someone to switch their tactics is a bad idea in reality. In addition, for timing's sake, it would be much harder to balance. Instead of one moveset, it's like 4.
The Mii's entire moveset isn't changed (except for maybe the side special), just the equipment that the Mii uses to attack with normals.
That's as far as I can go with Miis having a playstyle. I don't think they need a diverse playstyle to get in, just offer something new that would cater an interesting moveset like using the Wii Remote home button to freeze the opponent or even the ability to angle every single move the Mii has at unlikely directions like for example you could make Mii's F-Smash of the baseball bat hit upwards or being able to do a standard combo downwards.
 

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The Mii's entire moveset isn't changed (except for maybe the side special), just the equipment that the Mii uses to attack with normals.
That's as far as I can go with Miis having a playstyle. I don't think they need a diverse playstyle to get in, just offer something new that would cater an interesting moveset like using the Wii Remote home button to freeze the opponent or even the ability to angle every single move the Mii has at unlikely directions like for example you could make Mii's F-Smash of the baseball bat hit upwards or being able to do a standard combo downwards.
If any character will attack with Nintendo consoles and accessories, it will be Reggie:troll:.
 

Louie G.

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As for unique newcomers, this is how I would list the current ones in order of how unique they look.
1. Rosalina
2. Mega Man
3. Little Mac
4. Villager
5. Greninja
6. Wii Fit Trainer

They all have very unique attributes, and I definitely expect that to keep going with the rest of the newcomers. The real question is what other possible newcomers bring to the table.

We already mentioned Ridley's focus on aerial combat.
Mewtwo's psychic abilities are unlike anything seen in Smash (you know, except for when Mewtwo was in Melee)
Palutena can be defensive and rely on slow but powerful projectiles.
K. Rool is a heavyweight that relies heavily on projectiles, which is uncommon.
Shulk has his foreseeing or whatever.
Miis have a focus in customization I suppose.

So many likely and popular newcomers follow the uniqueness criteria. This is why I have doubt in characters like Dixie Kong (Even though Dixie has her hair, I don't see Sakurai making a unique moveset for someone near identical to an already existing fighter. I could definitely see it being a Wolf situation if she happens to make the cut). I'm interested to see what else Sakurai has in store, but whatever it is it's probably really unique.
 

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Again, the fact that we're struggling to actually come up with a gameplay-based reason to include Mii is what has me against including them. They seem to only appeal towards what they could visually bring to the roster, not what they can do to actually contribute towards the roster's balance--an antithesis of good game design.
You know, I could actually see them as being great trap characters; Miis have a possible tool kit that is huge and diverse as they have had MANY playable appearances. They seem like the perfect type of characters to have a "disorient and keep off balance" style of gameplay, especially because so many of their party games revolve around that sort of thing. I could see them being a bit of a cross between Wario and Game and Watch, maybe with a dash of Metaknight. I am also WAY over thinking this.
 

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You know, I could actually see them as being great trap characters; Miis have a possible tool kit that is huge and diverse as they have had MANY playable appearances. They seem like the perfect type of characters to have a "disorient and keep off balance" style of gameplay, especially because so many of their party games revolve around that sort of thing. I could see them being a bit of a cross between Wario and Game and Watch, maybe with a dash of Metaknight. I am also WAY over thinking this.
Over-thinking is better than under-thinking though. Tell me more of what you had in mind. I honestly want to hear what Miis offer in terms of gameplay.

Like, when you say "disorient and keep off balance", do you mean something like Confusion Fu, where they use an assortment of unpredictable attacks? What would separate them from Mr. Game & Watch and Wario, if that's the case? How do you balance that while staying separate from the rest of the roster?
 

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Over-thinking is better than under-thinking though. Tell me more of what you had in mind. I honestly want to hear what Miis offer in terms of gameplay.

Like, when you say "disorient and keep off balance", do you mean something like Confusion Fu, where they use an assortment of unpredictable attacks? What would separate them from Mr. Game & Watch and Wario, if that's the case? How do you balance that while staying separate from the rest of the roster?
Confusion Fu is exactly what I was getting at. It's hard to pin point an exact move set for Miis (once again, I'm not really a fan) but if you go watch videos of Wii Party, and Wii Play, and other such games, you will see everything from pulling out and using giant mallets, to taking photos, to having trampoline competitions. That's actually a good way to differentiate them from a Game and Watch type of character; the Miis are far more active characters. They are much more "hobbyists," and will therefore have a bigger emphasis on mobility and will feel overall faster. Jumping on a Segway for a dash, using the hang glider from pilot wings for a command glide recovery, taking snap shots that daze or stun as a special, that sort of thing.
 
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Louie G.

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I'm actually becoming more fond of Miis lately. They have the potential to be really fun and interesting characters, although we can't really tell until their inevitable reveal.
I was thinking that Miis may be able to use custom movesets of their own, as in taking other attacks from existing fighters and using them themselves. I'm not sure if this is likely or not, since this would take quite a bit of development time. But I could see this happening, at least.
 

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I'm actually becoming more fond of Miis lately. They have the potential to be really fun and interesting characters, although we can't really tell until their inevitable reveal.
I was thinking that Miis may be able to use custom movesets of their own, as in taking other attacks from existing fighters and using them themselves. I'm not sure if this is likely or not, since this would take quite a bit of development time. But I could see this happening, at least.
So similar to Mortal Kombat Armageddon's character customization? I could see that happening, it wouldn't be out of the question. Just a little OP.
 

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Yeah, speaking of Miis and their "inevitability," I finished writing this up just a while ago and posted it in the Mii thread. I figured I might as well post it here too, if only to see what kind of extreme controversy I'll create by challenging fate.

Well, after some thought, I decided to just go ahead and write up a little analysis of the Miis situation in Smash, and see what kind of evidence we've seen that's for or against their inclusion. Hopefully this will shed some light on the matter. So...

Why Miis?
Before I start analyzing things, I think it's important to get this bit out. Why should Miis be in Smash?

Well, for starters, Miis are near omnipresent nowadays. Ever since their introduction as avatars on the Wii, they've had recurring roles in numerous Nintendo games, to the point where it's difficult to keep track of them all. Aside from just games, Miis have become an icon for Nintendo as of late, with their prominence on the Wii being expanded upon on the 3DS (which is notable, considering that the 3DS has nothing to do with the Wii and didn't need to incorporate Miis, especially since there's no pun to be made) and the Wii U, the latter of which they are particularly prominent in through Miiverse, a new feature introduced that allows players to discuss games using their Miis. There's simply no denying the prominence Miis have now. So, when you have a game like Smash, a game that is known for bringing together Nintendo All-Stars together into one title, Miis seem like a good choice for being playable, as at this point they could certainly be considered Nintendo All-Stars. Of course, being an icon for Nintendo alone is not enough; characters also have to be capable of fighting it out with the other All-Stars on the roster. In other words, they need to have a move set to use. Fortunately for Miis, the numerous titles they've appeared in give them plenty of material to make a coherent move set out of, ranging from the sporting equipment from Wii Sports to magic and swordplay from Find Mii. Overall, Miis have a lot of good characteristics that would make them perfectly reasonable additions to the Smash roster.

Yeah, just wanted to get that part out of the way early. I do legitimately think that Miis are a justified addition to the Smash roster. Now obviously there is a ton of controversy regarding Miis being in Smash, with a lot of people hating the very concept of Miis being playable, and others who think that Miis would be too much of a technical challenge. Now, personally, I don't believe that either of these things would keep them out of Smash. Just as there are a lot of people who dislike Miis, there are a number of people who like them, and would enjoy seeing them in Smash (the existence of this thread is proof enough of that). And considering how Miis have been implemented into numerous other games at this point with no apparent difficulty, and considering how there are already very complex characters in Smash, a little bit of technical issues probably wouldn't stop Sakurai. So, the bottom line of all this is that Miis are justified, reasonable inclusions in Smash, and the reasons against their inclusion, while not beneficial to their chances, do in no way rule them out.

However, the main focus of this analysis isn't why Miis should be playable, or anything like that. The focus of this is to analyze what evidence we've actually seen in Smash 4 that supports or goes against the idea that Miis are playable in Smash.
Supporting Evidence
+ A stage based on Pilot Wings is present in the Wii U version of the game. This is notable due to the fact that the stage prominently features Wuhu Island, the setting for multiple "Wii" titles that heavily feature Miis. Miis have not been seen on the island thus far.

+ A stage based on Find Mii is present in the 3DS version of the game. As Find Mii is a game that's entirely based on Miis (compared to the Pilot Wings stage, which comes from a series that existed long before Miis), this is an ideal home stage for the Miis if they are playable.

+ A stage based on Tomodachi Life is present in the 3DS version of the game. Tomodachi Life is another game that focuses on Miis, in this case using them as citizens in a life-simulation game. Like the other stages before it, the presence of this stage in the game may hint at the appearance of playable Miis.

Well, I believe that's everything. If I left something out, do let me know. Now then...

Damaging Evidence
- The Pilot Wings stage, despite featuring Wuhu Island, may not mean much for the Miis being playable, as the Pilot Wings series has existed long before Miis have, and may simply be referencing the latest installment in the series as well as the older ones.

- The Miis appear as icons for players in Online mode, representing players and their "Global Smash Power." While not a de-confirmation by any means, this is an instance of Miis appearing in Smash in a role other than that of a playable character.

- One of the Miis biggest titles is Wii Sports, which many fans thought would be an ideal source to pull material from to make a move set for the Miis. However, another character on the roster, the Villager, already uses items like a bowling ball and boxing gloves in his own move set. Now, again, this obviously doesn't de-confirm Miis, as Little Mac was revealed sometime after the Villager, despite both utilizing boxing gloves for their move sets. However, it is something worth noting, especially considering that both the Villager and Miis are avatar characters who (would) use random props and items from their games to make a move set out of.

- A Mii appears in the cage of the Find Mii stage. As Toon Link has shown us, characters who appear in the background of stages are not necessarily de-confirmed. However, like with the Miis appearing in Online mode, this is an instance of Miis appearing in a role other than that of a playable character. While it's far from a de-confirmation, it is a strike against them.

- The Find Mii stage has a Find Mii crown for its series symbol (here we go...). This is a small but rather interesting detail that could mean a lot for the Miis chances. Within Smash, series that have representation through characters or stages are given a symbol to identify themselves with. The symbol for a series is usually something generic that can encompass whatever series it stands for as a whole (for example, the Mario series is represented by a mushroom symbol). The symbol of a series is then applied to any characters or stages that originate from that series. The Find Mii stage's symbol is rather interesting because of this. The stage is represented by a crown, which is clearly based on the crown worn by the King Mii that you work towards saving within Find Mii. In terms of representing Find Mii as a series, this fits in perfectly with the previous examples of symbols we've seen. However, if Miis were to be included as playable characters, the Find Mii stage would be an obvious choice for a home stage, as it comes from a game focused entirely on Miis. Given how closely the Miis and Find Mii are tied together, it would make sense that the stage would share a symbol with the Miis if they were playable. However, the crown symbol makes little to no sense as a symbol for the Miis. For one, the crown is distinctly based on Find Mii. If the Miis used this symbol, it would tie them to that specific game and that one alone, despite them appearing in numerous other titles aside from that (like Tomodachi Life, which is also getting a stage). Also, it is highly unlikely that the Find Mii stage will appear on the Wii U version of the game; thus, the symbol used by the Miis would have no meaning on that version of the game. Now, it could be argued that the Miis have no real series, and that the stages based on the Miis games could have their own symbol while the Miis have one of their own. However, this still doesn't make much sense. Despite not being part of the same series, the games based on Miis are still based on Miis. The games are all connected by the appearance of the Miis, thus making them "Mii" games. This is, in a way, similar to the Mario games. Games like Mario Kart, Luigi's Mansion, and Paper Mario aren't really part of the same series as, say, Super Mario Galaxy, being completely different genres and having multiple titles within that genre. Yet those games are still Mario games due to the presence of Mario characters and themes. Similarly, this translates into Smash, where stages based on Mario Kart and Luigi's Mansion share the same mushroom symbol that the rest of the Mario stages and characters do. Going off of that, it makes very little sense for the Find Mii stage to have a different symbol than that of the Miis if they are playable, considering that, even if it is distinct from other "Mii" games, Find Mii is still a "Mii" game. The most logical explanation for why the stage has a symbol different from that of the Miis is quite simple; Miis are not playable, and thus there is nothing to tie the "Mii" stages together, and each stage simply represents its own small series.



Well, I think that about sums it up. So, basically, what the Miis have going for them at this point are some stages based on games that Miis have featured prominently in. What they have going against them is them appearing in Smash in ways that aren't as playable characters, possible move set options being implemented in other characters, and the stages based on the "Mii" games possibly not associating themselves with any playable character.

In my mind, the negatives outweigh the positives. I find the Miis unlikely at this point.
 

jweb22

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With all this talk about how certain newcomers could be unique it had me thinking about Isaac/Matthew’s uniqueness it they got in (hopefully one of them does)!

Anyways, the one thing that separates Isaac from every other newcomer is his ability to manipulate Earth, with that in mind he could have a moveset that features creating breakable walls and breakable platforms.

Special moves:

  • Down B – Isaac would create a breakable wall. Pressing Down B again will cause the wall to break apart and fling darts of rock that Isaac is unaffected by. (only one wall can be on the field at a time)
  • Up B – Works differently depending on if Isaac is on the ground or in the air. If on the ground a breakable platform appears above Isaac’s head which can be used by anyone. If in the air, the platform will appear under his feet, which can be used by anyone, allowing his 2 jumps again. But hitting Up B again the platform will break apart shooting darts of rock that Isaac is unaffected by. (only one platform can be on the field at a time)
  • Neutral B – Isaac could have four circles above his damage counter (similar to how Little Mac’s KO meter is by the damage counter) using this move sets an Earth Djinn to you (four is the max obviously) The more Djinn you set makes Isaac’s Smash attacks stronger and his walls and platforms more durable and shoot stronger darts when they break apart.
  • Side B – Works similar to Little Mac’s “flying haymaker” (uses one of your set Djinn). A yellow colored image of an Earth Djinn glows around Isaac as he grabs the sword on his back and leaps forward causing an explosion where he lands. (Looks like the animation for using the Djinn Flint in game)

I think this would make Isaac a very unique character. Thoughts???
 

Morbi

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With all this talk about how certain newcomers could be unique it had me thinking about Isaac/Matthew’s uniqueness it they got in (hopefully one of them does)!

Anyways, the one thing that separates Isaac from every other newcomer is his ability to manipulate Earth, with that in mind he could have a moveset that features creating breakable walls and breakable platforms.

Special moves:

  • Down B – Isaac would create a breakable wall. Pressing Down B again will cause the wall to break apart and fling darts of rock that Isaac is unaffected by. (only one wall can be on the field at a time)
  • Up B – Works differently depending on if Isaac is on the ground or in the air. If on the ground a breakable platform appears above Isaac’s head which can be used by anyone. If in the air, the platform will appear under his feet, which can be used by anyone, allowing his 2 jumps again. But hitting Up B again the platform will break apart shooting darts of rock that Isaac is unaffected by. (only one platform can be on the field at a time)
  • Neutral B – Isaac could have four circles above his damage counter (similar to how Little Mac’s KO meter is by the damage counter) using this move sets an Earth Djinn to you (four is the max obviously) The more Djinn you set makes Isaac’s Smash attacks stronger and his walls and platforms more durable and shoot stronger darts when they break apart.
  • Side B – Works similar to Little Mac’s “flying haymaker” (uses one of your set Djinn). A yellow colored image of an Earth Djinn glows around Isaac as he grabs the sword on his back and leaps forward causing an explosion where he lands. (Looks like the animation for using the Djinn Flint in game)

I think this would make Isaac a very unique character. Thoughts???
I have always thought that Isaac was the most unique character possible, if Sakurai was honestly looking for someone with overt raw move-set potential; it would undeniably be Isaac. The suggested moves you listed are obviously super unique, having the ability to create breakable platforms and walls is fairly unprecedented.
 

Louie G.

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So similar to Mortal Kombat Armageddon's character customization? I could see that happening, it wouldn't be out of the question. Just a little OP.
Exactly.
The best outcome in this case is that they are banned from online play and tournaments.
Just like the custom moves that have been shown off so far.
 

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Fire Emblem should have more representation than Metroid because who else could they put in from Metroid. Fire Emblem has more good characters than almost every other series in smash.

And how would Ridley work at all?!
 
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Morbi

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Exactly.
The best outcome in this case is that they are banned from online play and tournaments.
Just like the custom moves that have been shown off so far.
That would actually be an interesting way to "monitor" online, they wouldn't have to deal with "offensive" Miis. That is a very interesting idea, something that I would support.

Yeah, speaking of Miis and their "inevitability," I finished writing this up just a while ago and posted it in the Mii thread. I figured I might as well post it here too, if only to see what kind of extreme controversy I'll create by challenging fate.
Thank you for the write-up. I wasn't really aware of anything in regards to the stages they appear on. So I suppose there is more evidence against their inclusion, despite their staggering prominence. They could always be represented in other ways, such as assist trophies. It seems like that might be the case.
 

Louie G.

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Fire Emblem should have more representation than Metroid because who else could they put in from Metroid. Fire Emblem has more good characters than almost every other series in smash.
Ridley and Dark Samus.

Seriously though, just because a franchise has more "good characters" doesn't mean that it deserves tons of representation for that. In that case we would have every Pokemon ever and all the Mario characters. I could see Metroid having as many characters as Fire Emblem though.

And yes I know Dark Samus is an assist trophy.

Welcome to the boards.

And how would Ridley work at all?!
A character slightly larger than Bowser that relies on aerial combat.
The polar opposite of Little Mac.
 
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False Sense

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Thank you for the write-up. I wasn't really aware of anything in regards to the stages they appear on. So I suppose there is more evidence against their inclusion, despite their staggering prominence. They could always be represented in other ways, such as assist trophies. It seems like that might be the case.
I swear, you have to be the first person I've made that argument to who didn't shrug me off or call me an idiot after reading it.

Also, I think we may already know how they're represented; as a background detail on the Find Mii stage, and as player icons in Online mode.
 
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Gunla

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I swear, you have to be the first person I've made that argument to who didn't shrug me off or call me an idiot after reading it.
Make that two.
And how would Ridley work at all?!
Well, that's what people said about Wii Fit Trainer.
Whatever the newcomer is, they'll make it work.

Welcome to the Boards, By the By.
 

Morbi

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Fire Emblem should have more representation than Metroid because who else could they put in from Metroid. Fire Emblem has more good characters than almost every other series in smash.
I do agree to an extent, there are so many ideal characters from Fire Emblem. The only problem is that most people want some semblance of proportional representation.

And how would Ridley work at all?!
You could always check out the Ridely thread, they are obviously obsessed with the notion.
 

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I have always thought that Isaac was the most unique character possible, if Sakurai was honestly looking for someone with overt raw move-set potential; it would undeniably be Isaac. The suggested moves you listed are obviously super unique, having the ability to create breakable platforms and walls is fairly unprecedented.
Yeah, there were a lot of options to choose from for Isaac but I thought this was the best way to separate him from every other character in the series. Plus the fact that I still come across the silly "Shulk vs Isaac" argument but this is something that shows clear difference between what the 2 of them can bring to Smash.
 

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Fire Emblem should have more representation than Metroid because who else could they put in from Metroid. Fire Emblem has more good characters than almost every other series in smash.
I do think FE deserves at least 3 fighters due its large variety of characters, but it seems hard to add variety in movesets or playstyles, since many protagonists are so-called "generic sword users".

Some people have suggested Marth, Anna (FE's mascot), and Robin. I'd like Ike and Roy to return too, but some might think they are too generic.

And Metroid also needs a third character. That isn't another form of Samus.

-----
 
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I gave up on Paper Mario after the no transformations ordeal. I thought a partner switch that changes his specials would be ideal. Same mechanic could work for King K. Rool with his cosplay. The only Mario character I would root for now is Toad.
I think Paper Mario has a lot of potential to do many different stuff so I wouldn't rule him out just quite yet. I do think he's very unlikely though.
 

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I think Paper Mario has a lot of potential to do many different stuff so I wouldn't rule him out just quite yet. I do think he's very unlikely though.
I just feel as though Game and Watch is already our 2D representative; as a Paper Mario supporter, it is probably the most redundant argument in the book. However, it really attenuates my desire to have him as a character.
 

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I just feel as though Game and Watch is already our 2D representative; as a Paper Mario supporter, it is probably the most redundant argument in the book. However, it really attenuates my desire to have him as a character.
I personally would like to simply see more Paper Mario elements in the game. Music, stages, etc... I understand that Paper Mario and G&W both are flat, but I think it's two different variations of flat if you follow. G&W cannot move in the 3rd dimension, while Paper Mario is literally paper that is able to flip in 3D. I have no idea how to explain it sadly, but hopefully that makes some sense. Paper is a 3D object unlike G&W, which he is strictly 2D.
I like both characters though :3
 
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Richard Nixon

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I guess I'm late to the Mii discussion. I did want to say, though, that I think their established role as player avatars for the online mode is a lot more damaging to their chances than anything else. This is a large and very fitting role for them. Regardless of whether they're playable or not, they will most likely be prominent and apparent to anyone who plays online. While Miis are huge and important to Nintendo and certainly worthy of representation in Smash, I think people tend to forget that there's more ways to represent a series than giving it a playable character. Between their numerous stages and non-playable avatar status, Miis are already very well represented in Smash 4. I'm not saying they couldn't end up being playable anyways, since there's definitely a decent chance of that happening, but I just can't shake the thought that they don't really need to be playable at this point.
 

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I still think Miis are in.

Miis often get special treatment in several of the games they're in.

Normal rules may not apply.
 

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I still think Miis are in.

Miis often get special treatment in several of the games they're in.

Normal rules may not apply.
Until we know for sure that they work under a different set of rules, I will continue thinking based off of logic and past precedents.
 

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Until we know for sure that they work under a different set of rules, I will continue thinking based off of logic and past precedents.
Basically this; the precedent that Miis usually get special treatment isn't applicable to Smash as of current. It would be more logical to assume that Miis are treated the same as everybody else until something indicates the contrary.
 

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Until we know for sure that they work under a different set of rules, I will continue thinking based off of logic and past precedents.
Basically this; the precedent that Miis usually get special treatment isn't applicable to Smash as of current. It would be more logical to assume that Miis are treated the same as everybody else until something indicates the contrary.
Their special treatment in Mario Kart and NSMBU isn't enough to even entertain the possibility?
 

False Sense

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Their special treatment in Mario Kart and NSMBU isn't enough to even entertain the possibility?
Entertain the possibility? Of course, it's certainly possible. But assuming that it is the case when nothing in this game would indicate so is, I believe, illogical.
 
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