Character Discussion Thread

[Maxilian]

Honestly, it's clear that Waluigi will never be playable in Super Smash Bros, unless they come up with Waluigi: The Game.

I don't think Waluigi needs his own game, he just need to appear in any Mario or Wario game and get a big role (Marioparty or any of those things counts! )

 

[Spazzy_D]

Honestly, it's clear that Waluigi will never be playable in Super Smash Bros, unless they come up with Waluigi: The Game.

I'm willing to bet that if he got a major role in a Wario game, like a series of mini-games in Wario Ware or as player 2 in a new Wario Land, he would be in the next Smash as a Wario rep.

 

[Maxilian]

Not necessarily; I already support Waluigi for Smash 5! I will never lose hope for Waluigi or Meowth.

I agree that Waluigi could be a playable character in the next SSB (only if what @ Spazzy_D said happens), but Meowth?.... Nope

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

If I could be that guy for a minute. What niche would Miis have from a gameplay standpoint?

Now notice I said gameplay. I'm not talking about aesthetics like being a sword-user or quirks like being able to choose what your Mii looks like. I'm speaking in terms of, when I pick up the controller to play as them, what will I be doing that's different from anyone else on the roster?

To give examples of what I'm asking, Lucario rewards tenacity with more power, Villager focuses on projectile manipulation, Mega Man is a spacing expert, Little Mac capitalizes on ground-based fighting to an extreme, etc. What gameplay mechanic exists that would make the Mii worth adding to the roster of a fighting game?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I don't think Waluigi needs his own game, he just need to appear in any Mario or Wario game and get a big role (Marioparty or any of those things counts! )

Honestly, I doubt that Waluigi will ever get a huge canonical role in Mario or Wario. Even Shadow has a higher chance at this rate, and I'm shameful to even support him.

 

[Kenith]

My dream is of a sequel to Wario World where Wario, Waluigi, Ashley, and Orbulon are all playable (in 4 player co op)

Then they are have the potential to be in Smash.

 

[Maxilian]

If I could be that guy for a minute. What niche would Miis have from a gameplay standpoint?

Now notice I said gameplay. I'm not talking about aesthetics like being a sword-user or quirks like being able to choose what your Mii looks like. I'm speaking in terms of, when I pick up the controller to play as them, what will I be doing that's different from anyone else on the roster?

To give examples of what I'm asking, Lucario rewards tenacity with more power, Villager focuses on projectile manipulation, Mega Man is a spacing expert, Little Mac capitalizes on ground-based fighting to an extreme, etc. What gameplay mechanic exists that would make the Mii worth adding to the roster of a fighting game?

He could be an utility based character, he appears in many games (or mini-games) doing a lot of things (using bows, swords, bombs, lazer canons, ships, magic, etc...), so in general... they are one of the characters with more chance of being unique

 

[Morbi]

I agree that Waluigi could be a playable character in the next SSB (only if what @ Spazzy_D said happens), but Meowth?.... Nope

I am already aware, but you know, hope is a powerful emotion that disregards logic in place of faith. Let me have this!

If I could be that guy for a minute. What niche would Miis have from a gameplay standpoint?

Now notice I said gameplay. I'm not talking about aesthetics like being a sword-user or quirks like being able to choose what your Mii looks like. I'm speaking in terms of, when I pick up the controller to play as them, what will I be doing that's different from anyone else on the roster?

To give examples of what I'm asking, Lucario rewards tenacity with more power, Villager focuses on projectile manipulation, Mega Man is a spacing expert, Little Mac capitalizes on ground-based fighting to an extreme, etc. What gameplay mechanic exists that would make the Mii worth adding to the roster of a fighting game?

I suppose that would depend on the direction Sakurai takes the character. I mean, no one expected Rosalina to be a marionette based character. I don't really believe that Mii characters would add a lot to game-play though, their merits are more based on aesthetics, as you alluded to. However, some people have stated that weight classes would probably be enough, the same move-set with 3 different weight classes. It would probably play out similar to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf in Melee where they were largely the same except for their physics.

 

[Spazzy_D]

My dream is of a sequel to Wario World where Wario, Waluigi, Ashley, and Orbulon are all playable (in 4 player co op)

Then they are have the potential to be in Smash.

Nabbit should be Wario's Toad. I just thought of this, but now I need it to happen. (He even has the whole greed thing going on.)

 

[Morbi]

Honestly, I doubt that Waluigi will ever get a huge canonical role in Mario or Wario. Even Shadow has a higher chance at this rate, and I'm shameful to even support him.

That is going too far, it isn't rational to compare a second 3rd party character from a series already represented to ANY Nintendo character.

 

[Maxilian]

Honestly, I doubt that Waluigi will ever get a huge canonical role in Mario or Wario. Even Shadow has a higher chance at this rate, and I'm shameful to even support him.

I'm pretty sure he will... so i will prepare myself to tell you "TOLD YA! " (not saying he's going to be a playable character in SSB but i'm pretty sure he will get a big role or at least a decent role in one Wario or Mario game -most likely in a Wario game-)

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

He could be an utility based character, he appears in many games (or mini-games) doing a lot of things (using bows, swords, bombs, lazer canons, ships, magic, etc...), so in general... they are one of the characters with more chance of being unique

Now notice I said gameplay. I'm not talking about aesthetics like being a sword-user or quirks like being able to choose what your Mii looks like. I'm speaking in terms of, when I pick up the controller to play as them, what will I be doing that's different from anyone else on the roster?

Using swords and bombs (Hi, Link!) does not tell me anything about how they'd be unique from a gameplay standpoint. Two characters can share the same weapon and still have entirely different playstyles (Link, Ike, and Meta Knight all exude this). I'm not talking about how they do something, I'm talking about what you, the player, is supposed to do to make use of it.

Let me simplify it down to this: Say that every character is nothing but wireframes and hitboxes. We have no visuals to represent a character for who they are, only for what they do. Mega Man could be identified for his vast amount of projectile moves. Rosalina could be identified for managing a "puppet" of sorts as well. Under the same circumstances, where we have no idea who this wire-framed prototype of Mii is even supposed to be, what playstyle would it have that only the Mii is capable of?

 

[Morbi]

Using swords and bombs (Hi, Link!) does not tell me anything about how they'd be unique from a gameplay standpoint. Two characters can share the same weapon and still have entirely different playstyles (Link, Ike, and Meta Knight all exude this). I'm not talking about how they do something, I'm talking about what you, the player, is supposed to do to make use of it.

Let me simplify it down to this: Say that every character is nothing but wireframes and hitboxes. We have no visuals to represent a character for who they are, only for what they do. Mega Man could be identified for his vast amount of projectile moves. Rosalina could be identified for managing a "puppet" of sorts as well. Under the same circumstances, where we have no idea who this wire-framed prototype of Mii is even supposed to be, what playstyle would it have that only the Mii is capable of?

When I start thinking about that, I remember Villager. I mean, if they were intending to use Miis they really should have saved the boxing gloves and bowling ball for the Mii character. Not only that, but it would have been cool to see Mii adopting moves from retro Nintendo characters that couldn't make it into Smash, such as Balloon Fighter.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

That is going too far, it isn't rational to compare a second 3rd party character from a series already represented to ANY Nintendo character.

Yeah, but even if Shadow wasn't 3rd party, Waluigi still has absolutely no merit.

 

[Maxilian]

Using swords and bombs (Hi, Link!) does not tell me anything about how they'd be unique from a gameplay standpoint.

Let me simplify it down to this: Every character is nothing but wireframes and hitboxes. We have no visuals to represent a character for who they are, only for what they do. Mega Man could be identified for his vast amount of projectile moves. Rosalina could be identified for managing a "puppet" of sorts as well. Under the same circumstances, where we have no idea who this wire-framed prototype of Mii is even supposed to be, what playstyle would it have that only the Mii is capable of?

I know i was just pointing out that we have seen the Miis do way too many things so... there are more places where you can take abilities, more places to take items, to take looks, etc..., in general... they have more options so... is easier to make them unique, as @ Morbi said, it depends on what Nintendo come ups with... look at Rosalina, she's unique and i'm pretty sure not many people expected to see her like that, also we have Ganondorf and i'm pretty sure most people don't expected to have Falcondorf but that's what we got...

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I suppose that would depend on the direction Sakurai takes the character. I mean, no one expected Rosalina to be a marionette based character. I don't really believe that Mii characters would add a lot to game-play though, their merits are more based on aesthetics, as you alluded to. However, some people have stated that weight classes would probably be enough, the same move-set with 3 different weight classes. It would probably play out similar to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf in Melee where they were largely the same except for their physics.

So in terms of actual gameplay, they'd offer little else beyond having multiple weight-classes?

Popularity and visual customization aside, that sounds incredibly bland for a character. If there's no clear distinct direction to be had with actually playing as Mii, I don't see the appeal in adding it in the first place.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, but even if Shadow wasn't 3rd party, Waluigi still has absolutely no merit.

Waluigi is probably the most prominent Mario spin-off character; and by birthright, he is a Mario Brother. Not only that, but again, based on what God Robert's Cousin was asserting, characters in a game are really just wire-frames with a hit-box, Waluigi's model would be one of the most unique BY FAR. As of current, he now has more Smash relevance than any other Mario character, more than most Nintendo characters. Not only that, but he is popular in the same way Luigi was prior to the Year of Luigi. Everyone loves him because no one loves him.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I know i was just pointing out that we have seen the Miis do way too many things so... there are more places where you can take abilities, more places to take items, to take looks, etc..., in general... they have more options so... is easier to make them unique, as @ Morbi said, it depends on what Nintendo come ups with... look at Rosalina, she's unique and i'm pretty sure not many people expected to see her like that, also we have Ganondorf and i'm pretty sure most people don't expected to have Falcondorf but that's what we got...

I'm aware it's what Nintendo comes up with. What I'm asking is what Nintendo can come up with that would make their inclusion worthwhile in terms of playability. That's my question right now.

When I start thinking about that, I remember Villager. I mean, if they were intending to use Miis they really should have saved the boxing gloves and bowling ball for the Mii character. Not only that, but it would have been cool to see Mii adopting moves from retro Nintendo characters that couldn't make it into Smash, such as Balloon Fighter.

All of which were transferred into Villager. Either way, that still does not answer the question!

Remember, if they were wireframes and hitboxes only, there would be no such thing as "bowling balls" or "boxing gloves". No visuals at all, only mechanical function. I'm asking about, if they were in that gameplay-only standpoint, what they would do.

 

[Spinosaurus]

My dream is of a sequel to Wario World where Wario, Waluigi, Ashley, and Orbulon are all playable (in 4 player co op)

Then they are have the potential to be in Smash.

Keep Warioware to Warioware.
Keep Waluigi out of the Wario series. (I wouldn't mind a Wario & Waluigi RPG or something, though.)

 

[Morbi]

I'm aware it's what Nintendo comes up with. What I'm asking is what Nintendo can come up with that would make their inclusion worthwhile in terms of playability. That's my question right now.

All of which were transferred into Villager. Either way, that still does not answer the question!

Remember, if they were wireframes and hitboxes only, there would be no such thing as "bowling balls" or "boxing gloves". No visuals at all, only mechanical function. I'm asking about, if they were in that gameplay-only standpoint, what they would do.

I was just taking a stab at it; I already stated that I don't believe that they would offer anything vastly unique in terms of game-play.

 

[Spazzy_D]

If I could be that guy for a minute. What niche would Miis have from a gameplay standpoint?

Now notice I said gameplay. I'm not talking about aesthetics like being a sword-user or quirks like being able to choose what your Mii looks like. I'm speaking in terms of, when I pick up the controller to play as them, what will I be doing that's different from anyone else on the roster?

To give examples of what I'm asking, Lucario rewards tenacity with more power, Villager focuses on projectile manipulation, Mega Man is a spacing expert, Little Mac capitalizes on ground-based fighting to an extreme, etc. What gameplay mechanic exists that would make the Mii worth adding to the roster of a fighting game?

I get where you are going with this... but what does Greninja add that we didn't already have? (As far as Mii go, I personally think a lot of the mechanics that would make Mii unique have already been covered by Villager, as @ Morbi already mentioned.)

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Waluigi is probably the most prominent Mario spin-off character; and by birthright, he is a Mario Brother. Not only that, but again, based on what God Robert's Cousin was asserting, characters in a game are really just wire-frames with a hit-box, Waluigi's model would be one of the most unique BY FAR. As of current, he now has more Smash relevance than any other Mario character, more than most Nintendo characters. Not only that, but he is popular in the same way Luigi was prior to the Year of Luigi. Everyone loves him because no one loves him.

Well, one of Sakurai's MOST IMPORTANT REQUIREMENTS for playable characters is having importance to the franchise canonically. Waluigi doesn't fit that requirement, and I doubt he will anytime soon.

 

[Pazzo.]

Keep Warioware to Warioware.
Keep Waluigi out of the Wario series. (I wouldn't mind a Wario & Waluigi RPG or something, though.)

Or how about this... a two-player successor to the Wario Land series?

 

[Joe D.]

Or Devil.

Or Devil Kawashima as a final smash if he gets in

NO. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. I WILL BURY EVERY COPY OF SMASH 4 IN THE SAME DESERT ET WAS IN.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What is the purpose of asking the Mii gameplay question @ God Robert's Cousin ?

 

[Rockaphin]

Waluigi is probably the most prominent Mario spin-off character; and by birthright, he is a Mario Brother.

What about Daisy? I believe she appeared in more spin-offs and at least appeared in a main game(Mario Land).

 

[Spinosaurus]

I bet Miis will have Ryu's moveset.

In seriousness though, I thought one of the coolest things PS All Stars did was have Toro, who doesn't really fight and is sort of an avatar, be a stance character, with his stances each based on the main character of a popular fighting game. Normal stance - Jin from Tekken. Oni stance - Ryu/Akuma from Street Fighter. Ninja stance - Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. It wasn't executed well (just like the design of the whole game, unfortunately), but I'd LOVE if Miis incorporated this. I loved the idea, and it would give use a stance character that Smash could use and could have had with Lil Mac.

 

[Morbi]

Well, one of Sakurai's MOST IMPORTANT REQUIREMENTS for playable characters is having importance to the franchise canonically. Waluigi doesn't fit that requirement, and I doubt he will anytime soon.

Importance is subjective; I interpret Waluigi as one of the most important Mario characters myself, Sakurai apparently believed Falco important to Star Fox prior to Melee. Falco was behind the ever so annoying Slippy and Peppy was one of the first Memes in general. It wasn't even a meme, it was just a reference, that is how old school he was. All of Team Star Fox was more important than Falco, they actually contributed to the plot. Falco only got in because he didn't aesthetically look like Fox. So I would say Waluigi has a pretty fair chance given that the criteria is more loose than an inappropriate joke.

I get where you are going with this... but what does Greninja add that we didn't already have? (As far as Mii go, I personally think a lot of the mechanics that would make Mii unique have already been covered by Villager, as @ Morbi already mentioned.)

Greninja doesn't really offer anything we haven't already had... but HYPE! You know what I am saying?

 

[Spinosaurus]

Greninja doesn't really offer anything we haven't already had... but HYPE! You know what I am saying?

Teleportation and possibly having a fast footsie character. He actually reminds me of SF's Bison from what we've seen. Hell he has the headstomp and everything.

 

[FalKoopa]

I bet Miis will have Ryu's moveset.

In seriousness though, I thought one of the coolest things PS All Stars did was have Toro, who doesn't really fight and is sort of an avatar, be a stance character, with his stances each based on the main character of a popular fighting game. Normal stance - Jin from Tekken. Oni stance - Ryu/Akuma from Street Fighter. Ninja stance - Scorpion from Mortal Kombat. It wasn't executed well (just like the design of the whole game, unfortunately), but I'd LOVE if Miis incorporated this. I loved the idea, and it would give use a stance character that Smash could use and could have had with Lil Mac.

Sakurai has stated he wants the player to concentrate on a single moveset throughout the entire match, so I think a stance character is unlikely.

 

[Morbi]

Teleportation and possibly having a fast footsie character. He actually reminds me of SF's Bison from what we've seen. Hell he has the headstomp and everything.

Um.. as a Zelda main, I am disgusted. We have had teleportation for over a decade.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

While we are on the topic of possible reps for 5MASH, here are my character to support so far.
Dillon
Wonder Red
Ashley
Waluigi
Balloon Figher

I'm sure there are more, those are just a few.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I get where you are going with this... but what does Greninja add that we didn't already have? (As far as Mii go, I personally think a lot of the mechanics that would make Mii unique have already been covered by Villager, as @ Morbi already mentioned.)

I was just taking a stab at it; I already stated that I don't believe that they would offer anything vastly unique in terms of game-play.

Greninja seems to have a heavy emphasis on deception-based fighting. Where as Meta Knight focuses on aerial combos and Sheik attempts to deny enemies of an opportunity to attack with his/her various multi-strike and projectile moves, Greninja relies on a type of gameplay that benefits from information control--the player can move quickly and unpredictably to rack up various combo-into-guerilla hits. I'd say Zoroark would have the same niche, but that's an irrelevant point when Zoroark isn't even a part of the roster (and likely won't be on part of being implied to be a Poke Ball Pokemon in Greninja's trailer).

Again, the fact that we're struggling to actually come up with a gameplay-based reason to include Mii is what has me against including them. They seem to only appeal towards what they could visually bring to the roster, not what they can do to actually contribute towards the roster's balance--an antithesis of good game design.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah, but even if Shadow wasn't 3rd party, Waluigi still has absolutely no merit.

Well Waluigi is a WARIO assist trophy now, rather than Mario like he used to be.
Which gives him less competition for Smash 5, where I can definitely see him make it in as a Wario rep.
And there's bound to be Wario Ware/Land games between then, so that's more than enough time to establish Waluigi.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

What is the purpose of asking the Mii gameplay question @ God Robert's Cousin ?

The purpose is that, since we're talking about a video game's roster, it would only make sense for the roster to actually adhere to gameplay alongside user request, yes? If Miis don't have anything to offer that hasn't already been done in Smash Bros. in terms of gameplay, it doesn't make sense to turn them into a character when characters themselves are the main gameplay of Smash Bros.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Greninja seems to have a heavy emphasis on deception-based fighting. Where as Meta Knight focuses on aerial combos and Sheik attempts to deny enemies of an opportunity to attack with his/her various multi-strike and projectile moves, Greninja relies on a type of gameplay that benefits from information control--the player can move quickly and unpredictably to rack up various combo-into-guerilla hits. I'd say Zoroark would have the same niche, but that's an irrelevant point when Zoroark isn't even a part of the roster (and likely won't be on part of being implied to be a Poke Ball Pokemon in Greninja's trailer).

Again, the fact that we're struggling to actually come up with a gameplay-based reason to include Mii is what has me against including them. They seem to only appeal towards what they could visually bring to the roster, not what they can do to actually contribute towards the roster's balance--an antithesis of good game design.

What about Wii Fit Trainer then? Did she bring anything in terms of a gameplay aspect. I myself don't think she brought a new playstyle.

 

[Will]

Yesterday I made a moveset for a Ghost type Pokemon. I'm currently using my moveset-creating powers to create one from a BUG type. I'll be back in a give-or-take 10 minutes

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

What about Wii Fit Trainer then? Did she bring anything in terms of a gameplay aspect. I myself don't think she brought a new playstyle.

It was shown that her Deep Breathing mechanic actually increases the power of her moves. This gives her a gameplay style that focuses on managing temporary buffs in order to make the most efficient use of her. Considering the closest we've ever had to that is Lucas's moveset in the unofficial Project M, I'd say that is a gameplay niche in its own right in SSB4.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Um.. as a Zelda main, I am disgusted. We have had teleportation for over a decade.

I'm talking about a potential teleport that can be used for footsies and offense, not just recovering like Mewtwo and Zelda lol.

 

[Dark Phazon]

I'm talking about a potential teleport that can be used for footsies and offense, not just recovering like Mewtwo and Zelda lol.

Thst would be to good imo..........way to good.....