Character Discussion Thread

[MagnesD3]

Now let me clarify that this is not about the 3 biggest series having to be equal.
This is about the 3 biggest series each deserving newcomers.

Both Mario and Pokémon have full-fledged newcomers, and I feel that if they get ones, Zelda should too.

As for why Tingle, he is a recurring character, and is very unique and has a wide variety of moveset potential.
He could be vastly different from any other fighter we've seen, and could bring something completely new to Smash. And considering we got Rosalina and Greninja over other potential newcomers, it seems that this is what Sakurai is looking for.


About Lip, I chose her over Takamaru as a retro character because uniqueness again.
Greninja brought a lot of Samurai aspects with him to Smash, and it would be kind of pointless to bring in samurai when you already have a Water Frog-Samurai, especially with Sakurai liking uniqueness.

I feel shieks new slot and a ganon revamp will count as the zelda newcomers, personally id love demise to take that spot but technically zelda really doesnt need a newcomer. As for retro's we may or may not get one, takamaru is adored in japan especially when compared to lip, also lips main weapon has been itemized again.

 

[The Black mage]

I feel shieks new slot and a ganon revamp will count as the zelda newcomers, personally id love demise to take that spot but technically zelda really doesnt need a newcomer. As for retro's we may or may not get one, takamaru is adored in japan especially when compared to lip, also lips main weapon has been itemized again.

Hopefully they will make Ganondorf useful, unlike how he was in Brawl.

 

[Shorts]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

Ridley and K. Rool

 

[Deleted member]

We have now reached the last part of Smash speculation; where the most intense debates occur and the most pressure is felt on remaining newcomers.

Smash Direct was an incredible Direct; in both good ways and bad. It was good because it gave us so much of what we wanted; improved online, awesome gameplay, great content representation, etc. It also introduce Gekkouga (or Greninja as commonly known) to the world, giving us an unexpected Pokémon newcomer, as well as separating Sheik from Zelda and Zero Suit Samus from Samus. However, it also likely spells Ridley's unfortunate fate as a stage hazard and many other characters were outright disconfirmed such as Saki, Samurai Goroh and many others.

With the skies now clearer, the fields have changed dramatically. The Getmatsu's leak, which came right before the Smash Direct, should it be true, has revealed to us the majority of newcomers that will be featured in this game. Not only have Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Villager, Little Mac and Gekkouga made the cut, but it also seems as Pac-Man, Mii, Palutena, Chrom, Shulk and Chorus Guy will also be playable. However, the Getmatsu's leak does not indicate the entire roster has been revealed, as Rosalina was never leaked yet was made playable. It is a sure bet that Rosalina isn't the only non-leaked character that is playable.

It could very well be that we are at twelve newcomers right now. This means that there are only a few spots left for grabs and competition for these spots will be intense. Outside of what's been confirmed/leaked, I feel very strongly on only two additions; Mewtwo's returns and getting a retro newcomer and that's because they have both been hinted at (and in the former case, has everything going for it). Given that this would bring us up to fourteen additions, any possible additions is not guarantee and if so, will be minimal. King K. Rool is probably the most likely one of the bunch due to how much he has going for him and how little he has against him (only real argument now is the possibility of Dixie getting in instead, but the Kremling's appearance in Smash Run gives K. Rool the edge), but even he has a real chance of not showing up due to the possibility of us not getting fifteen or more newcomers. Other characters like Dixie Kong, Isaac, Krystal, Bandanna Dee and pretty much anything that hasn't been disconfirmed are also competing for these spots that may not even exist.

If counting the leaked/confirmed characters, we are looking at only two to five more possible additions left (as we will not get as much as Brawl). The scene has heated up seriously over the past few days and the speculation scene will only continue to burn until the game is released.

Nevertheless, I am extremely excited for this game. For the most part, this is the game Smash fans have been dreaming of and it looks as it could very well be the best yet. And as we ride into the sunset of the pre-game hype, it seems as the best has yet to come...

 

[Sonicshuffle]

Forget this post. Didn't realize how old the post was I was responding to.

 

[Starcutter]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

The two newcomers should be mewtwo and K Rool. Not even kidding.

 

[The Black mage]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

Me, the Black mage, and... Errrr....
Hector?

 

[Sonicshuffle]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

Oh that's easy. Big the Cat and Helix Fossil.

 

[The Black mage]

Oh that's easy. Big the Cat and Helix Fossil.

Why Big, again? I can understand that Helix Fossil, though...

 

[Deleted member]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

Of the newcomers (not counting Mewtwo), going with Ridley and K. Rool.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

Outside of what's been confirmed/leaked, I feel very strongly on only two additions; Mewtwo's returns and getting a retro newcomer and that's because they have both been hinted at (and in the former case, has everything going for it).

Out of curiosity, why do you think we're getting those two? I mean, Mewtwo seems fairly obvious (he *was* intended to be in Brawl, after all), but why a retro? Or is it just because Sakurai's added a retro to every game since Melee?

In addition, who do you think the retro would be?

 

[Shorts]

I think Little Mac was our "retro".

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Anyone notice that every item from Brawl minus the fan and cracker launcher have been revealed? It's crazy that they would reveal so many items at once.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I think Little Mac was our "retro".

Does he really count, though? I mean, his last game was on the Wii (and, before that, was on the SNES)...

Whereas people like Ice Climbers, G/W and Pit haven't had (and in the case of the former two, still haven't had) a game since... mid-Gameboy era?

 

[The Black mage]

Anyone notice that every item from Brawl minus the fan and cracker launcher have been revealed? It's crazy that they would reveal so many items at once.

BLUE SHELLLLLL

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, why do you think we're getting those two? I mean, Mewtwo seems fairly obvious (he *was* intended to be in Brawl, after all), but why a retro? Or is it just because Sakurai's added a retro to every game since Melee?

In addition, who do you think the retro would be?

http://www.cubed3.com/news/16920/1/...n-talks-kid-icarus-uprising-nintendo-3ds.html

Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics, MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?

Sakurai-san: I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world.

It should be pretty obvious that Sakurai is planning on bringing back old characters from the past into Smash. I am confident that we will at least see a retro newcomer get in because of this.

As for what I'm going with, it's Mach Rider. Sakurai has visited Mach Rider before back in Melee, recalling how he was his favorite in Smash Bros. 2 (which turned out to be Melee), indicating that he does have interest in Mach Rider. He also hasn't been ruled out before like Balloon Fighter was pre-Melee. And unlike Takamaru, he hasn't been "revived" as a character. I bet Sakurai revisited Mach Rider this time around and gave him serious consideration. I consider him to be the most likely of the pack, though that's not to say that Takamaru or another retro character can't get in instead.

 

[Shorts]

Does he really count, though? I mean, his last game was on the Wii (and, before that, was on the SNES)...

Whereas people like Ice Climbers, G/W and Pit haven't had (and in the case of the former two, still haven't had) a game since... mid-Gameboy era?

Well then let me rephrase it.

I don't think we're gettiing a retro.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So...

Ice Climbers for NES Remix 1+2?

 

[Shorts]

So...

Ice Climbers for NES Remix 1+2?

There not retros anymore. Cut em?

 

[NickerBocker]

Who do you choose?

Protip: Don't choose Mewtwo

Really though, I can't bring myself to not choose Ridley and Dixie, if only for the sake of DK and Metroid having 3 instead of Pokemon having 6.

If were not talking Mewtwo (which I dont know why,) then definitely K Rool has to be one of them. The kremlings being in the game suggests that he has not forgotten the old croc. That is some strange dealings if we get kremlings and no K Rool. His trophy in melee and brawl even mention his overwhelming popularity. Relevance be damned.

The other one should go to Ridley. The lack of major villains has been astonishing, and if all 3 of K Rool, Ridley and Mewtwo (the closest were going to get to a pokemon villain) dont make the cut, I would be very surprised. Sakurai has continuously teased his appearance, playable or not, in this game. It would be a real shame if he was building all this hype just to pass him up.

If you feel strongly against either of these picks, I woukd say Isaac then. The lack of him appearing as an AT really does question his status I suppose.

EDIT: also, concerning veterans, who do you think will show up in the next couple of months?

 

[AEMehr]

There's no reason to justify anything, Pokemon is more than enough in its rights to keep its numbers at six.


It's still entirely possible to lose a number, however. It's something to keep in mind.

That's completely likely, but what bothers me is that people have to "Justify" having six characters.
Whether we get 6 or not is a different story.

Slots, man. The slots.

#rosterbalance

Technically, technically, technically. Sakurai CLEARLY uses minor details to get around balancing the character select screen. Giving different icons, putting characters into one, regardless of the fact that he acknowledges that there are factually 39 characters total doesn't mean he doesn't acknowledge that there are theoretically 35. It's so obvious that (like I said) you would have to make excuses to make yourself believe otherwise.

What I'm trying to say is: Just because Pokemon has 6 characters total (and not separate) does not mean Sakurai is okay with more than 5 separated characters. Or at least not if there is more than Mario. The point is that there is a difference. This word "technically" is being thrown around to justify what you want. Well, Mario TECHNICALLY has 8 characters despite it clearly not being treated as such in game. Well, if that were true, I have doubts that we would see Rosalina because Sakurai has a thing about not wanting to over represent the Mario universe.

Considering that Mewtwo was planned to be in Brawl as well, with Dr. Mario assumingly being scrapped earlier in development due to having much less developed than Mewtwo, this argument is practically pointless. At that point, Pokémon would have 5 / 7 Playable Characters while Mario would remain at 4. So I heavily doubt he cares at all.
When it comes to Mario technically currently having 8 characters, that is more of a opinion rather than fact. Since three of the cast of eight are marked to be from separate franchises, despite from being generally seen as Mario characters.
Either way, the Super Mario Franchise currently has 6 fighters.

Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Rosalina, and Luma.
These six all have unique movesets and are controlled by the player. Not that it matters in the end though, because Sakurai could probably care less about franchise balance being that controlled. If the fans worldwide want Mewtwo, which should be obvious to him, why not make the exception? Because he's supposedly following rules he's broken in the past?
---

I'd be fine with six Pokemon guys, but SEVEN? That just looks off!

To be fair, We were expecting seven beforehand anyways.

 

[Starbound]

Either way, the Super Mario Franchise currently has 6 fighters.

Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Rosalina, and Luma.
These six all have unique movesets and are controlled by the player.

It'll be interesting to see how Luma's files look in the game data when the Wii U is inevitably cracked. Given that Luma's moveset is totally different from Luma, I could see it getting its own file and Sakurai then counting it as its own character.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think Sakurai cares too much about the Super Mario series and its subseries' classification.

Waluigi is classified under the Wario series.

Perhaps he fiddled with this to keep them all "Mario."

 

[Baskerville]

I don't think Sakurai cares too much about the Super Mario series and its subseries' classification.

Waluigi is classified under the Wario series.

Perhaps he fiddled with this to keep them all "Mario."

I still question why Waluigi was labeled under Wario series despite never being in a Wario game.
Not that I have any problem with it, I'm just generally curious.

 

[Staarih]

I see Rosalina and Luma closer to Olimar and Pikmin, as apparently the Luma just wanders around when you shoot it out, so we can't really move as Luma even if we can attack with it. It's a bit weird really, but I'd count them as one character. Sakurai might disagree though.

Not that it really matters, I don't feel there's any "character cap" to certain series, though balancing it out even a little is always good.

Oh, and I really hope for a villain trailer at E3 giving us K. Rool, Ridley and Mewtwo.

 

[Sharkarat]

Either way, the Super Mario Franchise currently has 6 fighters.

Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Rosalina, and Luma.
These six all have unique movesets and are controlled by the player. Not that it matters in the end though, because Sakurai could probably care less about franchise balance being that controlled. If the fans worldwide want Mewtwo, which should be obvious to him, why not make the exception? Because he's supposedly following rules he's broken in the past?
---
To be fair, We were expecting seven beforehand anyways.

Even if it has more moves I think Rosalina & Luma would count as one, like Olimar and Ice Climber.

 

[AEMehr]

I see Rosalina and Luma closer to Olimar and Pikmin, as apparently the Luma just wanders around when you shoot it out, so we can't really move as Luma even if we can attack with it. It's a bit weird really, but I'd count them as one character. Sakurai might disagree though.

Even if it has more moves I think Rosalina & Luma would count as one, like Olimar and Ice Climber.

The problem here is that Pikmin are basically Glorified items, the Luma is a fighter with a complete moveset* that dies after taking a certain amount of damage and can't be grabbed. It's basically another playable character, with some different aspects. Sakurai's noted how the Luma and Rosalina have different movesets before in the direct and in previous pics of the day. The Luma is essentially it's own character, it just isn't under the total control of the player. But it pretty much does have an entire unique moveset*, so it did take separate playable character development time. It should count as another playable character because it's much more "playable" than: the Pikmin, Pokémon Trainer, and Phantom since it actually fights alongside Rosalina and on it's own.

*Barring some specials and grabs

 

[Staarih]

Hmm, I guess so. I actually feel like Rosalina and Luma are much like Pokemon Trainer in Brawl: some counted him as one character, some as three separate ones. I don't recall what the official definition (as in Sakurai's opinion) was. When talking about character slots though Sakurai has made it easier to count them now with no transformation characters, but rather them being on their own and having own slots. Rosalina and Luma are, in this sense, still listed as one. But technically they are indeed two characters. I guess it depends on how you look at it really.

 

[AEMehr]

Well either way, saying Pokémon isn't justified to have 6 characters is completely asinine when everyone was perfectly fine with having 7 before Transformation characters were removed so bleh. Sakurai hasn't shown interest in complete franchise balance before so there is no reason for him to do so now.

 

[dezeray112]

So I guess it is safe to say that we will know the entire roster once the 3DS version comes out?

 

[AEMehr]

So I guess it is safe to say that we will know the entire roster once the 3DS version comes out?

Yes. That is the case.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I still question why Waluigi was labeled under Wario series despite never being in a Wario game.
Not that I have any problem with it, I'm just generally curious.

Probably because he is Wario's "brother" and Waluigi is not the kind of guy to call them his groupies.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Either way, the Super Mario Franchise currently has 6 fighters.

Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Rosalina, and Luma.
These six all have unique movesets and are controlled by the player. Not that it matters in the end though, because Sakurai could probably care less about franchise balance being that controlled. If the fans worldwide want Mewtwo, which should be obvious to him, why not make the exception? Because he's supposedly following rules he's broken in the past?
---
To be fair, We were expecting seven beforehand anyways.

Huh. Would Luma really be counted by Sakurai as a separate character from Rosalina due to its different moves and the fact that it can be slightly controlled?

Luma is more independent than the Pikmin, but not quite at the level of the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon.

----

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I seriously doubt that Rosalina and Luma are two separate characters

 

[The Black mage]

I seriously doubt that Rosalina and Luma are two separate characters

Sakurai already addressed that they are one character. Luma is part of her specials.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

[/quote]

Yes. That is the case.

Though its probably true, free updates as things are announced for the wii U version haven't been ruled out.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Pos-Direct roster:

-Ridley: I'll believe till they show his entire body as a boss.
-Grass type: If we got Greninja, every thing in pokémon is possible. And don't touch my Ivysaur!

For the others, the reasons are obvious.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Quote me if you will, but I think the next veteran will be the Ice Climbers, and the next Newcomer will be Krystal.

 

[Kenith]

Quote me if you will, but I think the next veteran will be the Ice Climbers, and the next Newcomer will be Krystal.

This community would riot in the streets if Krystal gets in before Ridley or K Rool.