Character Discussion Thread

[The Suit-less Ace]

I'm just saying it seems hypocritical to me to add a Kid Icarus newcomer, but remove an Earthbound and Star Fox character on the basis that the series isn't large enough, when:

a.) Star Fox has more games then either
b.) The MOTHER series had consistent releases, while Kid Icarus was forgotten for many years before a reboot
c.) The MOTHER series has an equal number of games to Kid Icarus

True, but then again I don't support cutting Lucas, Falco, or Wolf.

 

[TumblrFamous]

If I put in Wolf, I'd take out Falco(Which is something I've considered). I object to Star Fox getting 3 characters on principle, I just don't think it is big enough. I removed Lucas for the smae reason.
I have come really close to putting in Bandanna Dee, so maybe in the future. But now, I'd like more new series characters.
I Love Paper Mario, but putting in him AND Rosalina AND Toad would be kind of Mario Overkill.

I don't think Earthbound and StarFox need to lose characters, but rather just stay where they are.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

It would be lame if a series were to go down in reps, but if they do it's not going to be because the series didn't warrant that many characters, if the series didn't warrent that many characters then they wouldn't have gotten that many characters to begin with.

 

[Zzuxon]

Hear, Hear.
That's the main reason I was disappointed in the De-confirmation of Saki.
I mean in my sig there's not a single rep who's game has been represented before.
I was disappointed in the Rosalina reveal, but I was heartbroken from the Greninja reveal.
They're both cool but that kinda seems like series overload to me.

I'm Ok with giving big series like mario and Pokemon more characters, they actually deserve more, at least in my view. I don't like giving smaller series like Star Fox and Mother a bunch of characters.

It would be lame if a series were to go down in reps, but if they do it's not going to be because the series didn't warrant that many characters, if the series didn't warrent that many characters then they wouldn't have gotten that many characters to begin with.

Wolf and Ness were both last minute additions to buff up the roster before Brawl's release. So was Falco, but I think 2 characters for star fox is warranted.

 

[9Volt]

Okay, pizza. I did it.
View attachment 11932
Chibi-Robo instead of Takamaru. So there.

There is not a retro char in this roster...Sakurai will resurrect a lost soul, I think gonna be a underground one like Ice Climbers because he didn´t show yet like the other cool example: Pit.

 

[Arcanir]

Game Freak.

Some people try to say that Sakurai picks characters solely on his own, and that Game Freak doesn't tell him anything, even after he's said that he specifically has trouble working with them to get characters. Some say he just played X/Y and thought Greninja was a good choice, kind of odd of him to be playing a game that wasn't even out yet until far after the roster was decided. Sure it's ultimately his say, but you better believe that they pushed Greninja on him hard.

Why would they push for a character they haven't even promoted yet? You have Sylveon, Blaziken, hell, even Gardevoir that are much better choices in that aspect then Greninja, so it's highly questionable they'd push for a character that isn't tried and true with them.

It's much more likely that Sakurai saw the character, liked him and potentially saw how popular he was rather then GF pushing for a character that hasn't (and still isn't) being promoted by them.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Should characters in the game have a Classic Mode rival that always shows up at the end? I think I would like that idea.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Should characters in the game have a Classic Mode rival that always shows up at the end? I think I would like that idea.

What about the Master hand though?

 

[Hotfeet444]

It would be lame if a series were to go down in reps, but if they do it's not going to be because the series didn't warrant that many characters, if the series didn't warrent that many characters then they wouldn't have gotten that many characters to begin with.

Let's just hope that we don't lose any actual franchises in terms of representation. We already know Mother and F-Zero characters are coming back (Samurai Goroh and Franklin Badge)...the better question now is...how many characters won't we see until the game actually releases?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Wolf and Ness were both last minute additions to buff up the roster before Brawl's release. So was Falco, but I think 2 characters for star fox is warranted.

Ness and Falco were not last minute additions in Brawl.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

Should characters in the game have a Classic Mode rival that always shows up at the end? I think I would like that idea.

Maybe in adventure? Like how Bowser would show up?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Why would they push for a character they haven't even promoted yet? You have Sylveon, Blaziken, hell, even Gardevoir that are much better choices in that aspect then Greninja, so it's highly questionable they'd push for a character that isn't tried and true with them.

It's much more likely that Sakurai saw the character, liked him and may've saw how popular he was rather then GF pushing for a character that hasn't (and still isn't) being promoted by them.

It's interesting to think about. Assume that GameFreak and The Pokemon Company did in fact suggest Greninja to Sakurai.
Do you think it took place in mid 2012, shortly after SSB4 started development? That would be a bold move. They'd be counting on the fans to like Greninja and have him/it become popular before revealing him/it for Smash.

Let's just hope that we don't lose any actual franchises in terms of representation. We already know Mother and F-Zero characters are coming back (Samurai Goroh and Franklin Badge)...the better question now is...how many characters won't we see until the game actually releases?

I'm worried about Metal Gear.
The game will be great even without it, but I'll still miss it.

Should characters in the game have a Classic Mode rival that always shows up NEAR the end? I think I would like that idea.

You mean like in Playstation All Stars? I'd be okay with it, I think.

----

 

[Oracle_Summon]

What about the Master hand though?

The rival would be the character before you fight Master Hand, always.

Maybe in adventure? Like how Bowser would show up?

Like that, but you fight them before Master Hand.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I'm worried about Metal Gear.
The game will be great even without it, but I'll still miss it.

----

I'm sure Snake will come back, that ambiguous response by Kojima is easily because of an agreement clause to not speak about the game before release. I mean c'mon, did you see the goofy smile on his face?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Why would they push for a character they haven't even promoted yet? You have Sylveon, Blaziken, hell, even Gardevoir that are much better choices in that aspect then Greninja, so it's highly questionable they'd push for a character that isn't tried and true with them.

It's much more likely that Sakurai saw the character, liked him and potentially saw how popular he was rather then GF pushing for a character that hasn't (and still isn't) being promoted by them.

Some say he just played X/Y and thought Greninja was a good choice, kind of odd of him to be playing a game that wasn't even out yet until far after the roster was decided.

I even addressed this in the exact post you quoted.

Why would they push for him? Marketing is a powerful thing, and Greninja fit the bill. Blaziken and Gardevoir aren't new Pokemon, can't say for Sylveon.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

The rival would be the character before you fight Master Hand, always.

That's not a bad idea. I can imagine matches like these happening:

Shulk vs Issac
Ganondorf vs Link
Ridley (meh) vs. Samus
Bowser vs. Mario

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

Like that, but you fight them before Master Hand.

This sounds like Soul Caliber. The game I played during my childhood (and i sucked at).

 

[Zzuxon]

Ness and Falco were not last minute additions in Brawl.

I should have secified that Falco was last minute in Melee.
If you recall, Ness was practically removed in favor of Lucas, but both ended up in.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

That's not a bad idea. I can imagine matches like these happening:

Shulk vs Issac
Ganondorf vs Link
Ridley (meh) vs. Samus
Bowser vs. Mario

Greninja vs. Sheik

Zero Suit Samus vs. Rosalina

Fox vs. Pikachu

Little Mac vs. Lucario

Villager vs. Luigi

I personally think Ridley's rival should be:

Charizard

And that is my take thus far.

This sounds like Soul Caliber. The game I played during my childhood (and i sucked at).

Except no spamming Nightmare's OP attacks.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

I even addressed this in the exact post you quoted.

Why would they push for him? Marketing is a powerful thing, and Greninja fit the bill. Blaziken and Gardevoir aren't new Pokemon, can't say for Sylveon.

I'm getting annoyed when people talk about Blaziken and Gardevoir. Mainly because we already have the 2 (and hopefully 3 if Mewtwo is in) most iconic megas. I don't think all pokemon Final Smashes have to be Mega Evolutions, plus what's wrong with Greninja? There really isn't any problem except the Mewtwo situation.

(Edit: I only get annoyed when they say Gard and Blaze should take Greninja's place)

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

He's also a big fan of Panel de Pon, yet look where that got Lip.

Not deconfirmed?

There is no evidence ever suggesting an item existing, even as a weapon of choice, has deconfirmed a character. On the contrary, there is some, (even if weak), evidence that suggest that items have nothing to do with.

That being Pokemon Trainer coexisting with Pokeballs. The weapon of choice for him.

I'll state again it is not foolproof. But, the argument against Lip doesn't have any proof. The only thing you have is a semi-resaonable logic, but look where reasonable logic has gotten us now. We are literally arguing whether or not Mewtwo is coming back when we were all so very confident he would be.

I'm not going to start forcing people to start coming back to supporting Lip. But, I'm personally tired of everyone being so sure that her flower is evidence of her exclusion and telling others to not support her. It makes being a supporter more difficult then it needs to be.

And one more thing since I know it will brought up. Yes, her chances of being in at all were low to begin with. I know people will tell me to not get my hopes up. I don't care about disappointment. It doesn't affect me one bit. I'll continue supporting.

(Btw, I do have two more reason why the flower doesn't deconfirm Lip. See right here. http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...arok-has-started.343290/page-40#post-16599354

(Also, I don't know how to do that thing where you put links inside of words...)

 

[Arcanir]

It's interesting to think about. Assume that GameFreak and The Pokemon Company did in fact suggest Greninja to Sakurai.
Do you think it took place in mid 2012, shortly after SSB4 started development? That would be a bold move. They'd be counting on the fans to like Greninja and have him/it become popular before revealing him/it for Smash.

Pretty much, basically everyone's assuming that GF had a lot of foresight and predicted this Pokémon will definitely become popular without even having to push it.

I even addressed this in the exact post you quoted.

Why would they push for him? Marketing is a powerful thing, and Greninja fit the bill. Blaziken and Gardevoir aren't new Pokemon, can't say for Sylveon.

They're still examples of much more pushed characters then Greninja, even ignoring them, Sylveon still fits.

Regardless, you're making a lot of assumptions based on little knowledge, and the assumptions in question are not really supported. Again, for a Pokémon they're supposingly "pushing," they haven't done a good job of it. It didn't show up at all before the game came out (and there's no excuse, Blaziken did beforehand), and even now they haven't pushed it at all. Why is it impossible to believe either Sakurai responded to its popularity, or if it was earlier, picked it out himself because he liked the character? It's much more plausible then believing GF relied on a character they had no intention of promoting beforehand.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I should have secified that Falco was last minute in Melee.
If you recall, Ness was practically removed in favor of Lucas, but both ended up in.

Well Sakurai probably didn't think multiple Starfox characters was very necessary during Melee's time seeing how it only had two games at the time, only adding Falco after coming up with the idea of making clones, same for Mother which is probably why Lucas was originally planned to replace Ness in Melee, but when Brawl came around he felt no need in doing that and added them both around the same time.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

-lip stuff-

Even if Lip is somehow in this game, the fact is it's taken her 3 games to get represented by anything more than an item.

Hell I don't think she even got a trophy in Melee or Brawl.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I even addressed this in the exact post you quoted.

Why would they push for him? Marketing is a powerful thing, and Greninja fit the bill. Blaziken and Gardevoir aren't new Pokemon, can't say for Sylveon.

Why the push? Because he's the most famous of the three, although I have no idea by how much. Also, he's basically everywhere in the competitive game because he can be used with so many damn mix-ups thanks to Protean.

Even if Lip is somehow in this game, the fact is it's taken her 3 games to get represented by anything more than an item.

She got her own music in Brawl.

...as well as Kirby's Garbage Block Stone form...AND she had stickers.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Even if Lip is somehow in this game, the fact is it's taken her 3 games to get represented by anything more than an item.

Hell I don't think she even got a trophy in Melee or Brawl.

She got a sticker.

A sticker that was actually depicting Furil mislabled as Lip.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

She got her own music in Brawl.

...as well as Kirby's Garbage Block Stone form...AND she had stickers.

The point stands, Sakurai liking PDP has gotten Lip jack squat in the way of special treatment.

 

[MasterMushroom]

If ivysaur is indeed cut, I'm just going to leave this here. Don't mind me

This one is for you rebellious treecko.

 

[9Volt]

I would like a WTF retro char like sheriff or Duck Hunt Dog

 

[Louie G.]

did you see the goofy smile on his face?

I mean, I wasn't there, so...

In all seriousness, I'm still 50/50 on Snake. I guess he would be high priority and Sakurai said no cuts, but Kojima said that he doesn't think Snake is coming back, and cuts are a thing.
So I'm stumped.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sea Monster Reggie for Tomodachi Life Boss.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

I mean, I wasn't there, so...

In all seriousness, I'm still 50/50 on Snake. I guess he would be high priority and Sakurai said no cuts, but Kojima said that he doesn't think Snake is coming back, and cuts are a thing.
So I'm stumped.

If Pac-Man is in, Snake probably will have a lower chance.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm getting annoyed when people talk about Blaziken and Gardevoir. Mainly because we already have the 2 (and hopefully 3 if Mewtwo is in) most iconic megas. I don't think all pokemon Final Smashes have to be Mega Evolutions, plus what's wrong with Greninja? There really isn't any problem except the Mewtwo situation.

(Edit: I only get annoyed when they say Gard and Blaze should take Greninja's place)

Err, he brought them up, not me. I don't care much for either of them, or Greninja.

They're still examples of much more pushed characters then Greninja, even ignoring them, Sylveon still fits.

Regardless, you're making a lot of assumptions based on little knowledge, and the assumptions in question are not really supported. Again, for a Pokémon they're "supposingly" pushing, they haven't done a good job of it. It didn't show up at all before the game came out (and there's no excuse, Blaziken did beforehand), and even now they haven't pushed it at all. Why is it impossible to believe either Sakurai responded to its popularity, or if it was earlier, picked it out himself because he liked the character? It's much more plausible then believing GF relied on a character they had no intention of promoting beforehand.

Key words: Before the games ever came out.

How can he respond to it's popularity before it ever even had the chance to be popular?

How can he pick a character from a game that hadn't come out, unless Game Freak specifically went to him with said character? Do you think they gave him a beta copy of X/Y far before they ever came out and said "have fun with that and come back to us when you've chosen something!"

Sure Sakurai could have picked Greninja, from a small list that Game Freak gave him. Here's a quote from the man himself:

“For example, X and Y are coming out – of course, we haven’t done any market research because they’re not out yet, but we look at the animated series or movies and anything like that and again, find out which ones are going to be central to any of conversations in Pokemon going forward."

Greninja was not popular when Sakurai was looking for a Pokemon, he wasn't even known yet.
And you can bet that Game Freak have plans for him.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I mean, I wasn't there, so...

In all seriousness, I'm still 50/50 on Snake. I guess he would be high priority and Sakurai said no cuts, but Kojima said that he doesn't think Snake is coming back, and cuts are a thing.
So I'm stumped.

Sakurai said he'd try to get in as many characters as he can, not that there will be no cuts. I knew there would be at least some cuts, and I don't think anyone saw a "No transforming" clause happen to put Squirtle and Ivysaur away. My question is...can we still get Ike at the end of the month? I'm hoping for yes...

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

The point stands, Sakurai liking PDP has gotten Lip jack squat in the way of special treatment.

Before I can continue, what would you define as special treatment?

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

Err, he brought them up, not me. I don't care much for either of them, or Greninja.

Yeah I know it wasn't you who was bringing it up.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

View attachment 11951
If ivysaur is indeed cut, I'm just going to leave this here. Don't mind me

This one is for you rebellious treecko.

...Not a very good fake.

I think those are toys rather than action figures.

7/10. Got hyped for a split second before I started thinking rationally.

----

 

[Hotfeet444]

Err, he brought them up, not me. I don't care much for either of them, or Greninja.

Key words: Before the games ever came out.

How can he respond to it's popularity before it ever even had the chance to be popular?

How can he pick a character from a game that hadn't come out, unless Game Freak specifically went to him with said character? Do you think they gave him a beta copy of X/Y far before they ever came out and said "have fun with that and come back to us when you've chosen something!"

Sure Sakurai could have picked Greninja, from a small list that Game Freak gave him. Here's a quote from the man himself:

Greninja was not popular when Sakurai was looking for a Pokemon, he wasn't even known yet.
And you can bet that Game Freak have plans for him.

If that quote is indeed real...Mewtwo's chances haven't even budged, and I think we all know that there's no way in hell Game Freak didn't bring up a list of possible pokemon and NOT put Mewtwo on it.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I'm sure Snake will come back, that ambiguous response by Kojima is easily because of an agreement clause to not speak about the game before release.

Hopefully

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Before I can continue, what would you define as special treatment?

...look, I'm not arguing that Lip can't or won't be in.

Look at my statement in context. TLMC thought that Sakurai liking Fire Emblem meant it was justifiable for that franchise to have 4 playable characters. I pointed out that, despite considering PDP a "masterpiece," Sakurai has yet to give the franchise much representation outside of minor content(like items, music, and cameos). Lip herself has never even appeared in a Smash game AT ALL.