Character Discussion Thread

[Arcanir]

I'm getting annoyed when people talk about Blaziken and Gardevoir. Mainly because we already have the 2 (and hopefully 3 if Mewtwo is in) most iconic megas. I don't think all pokemon Final Smashes have to be Mega Evolutions, plus what's wrong with Greninja? There really isn't any problem except the Mewtwo situation.

(Edit: I only get annoyed when they say Gard and Blaze should take Greninja's place)

Whoa, when did I say I wanted Greninja to be replaced by either of those two? They were just examples of Pokémon more pushed by the company, not examples of Pokémon I'd prefer over Greninja. I'm very happy he's in, and I'm glad it happened without having to be pushed by GF to do it, I just don't get the reasoning behind "He's only in because GF wanted it."

Key words: Before the games ever came out.

How can he respond to it's popularity before it ever even had the chance to be popular?

How can he pick a character from a game that hadn't come out, unless Game Freak specifically went to him with said character? Do you think they gave him a beta copy of X/Y far before they ever came out and said "have fun with that and come back to us when you've chosen something!"

Sure Sakurai could have picked Greninja, from a small list that Game Freak gave him. Here's a quote from the man himself:

Greninja was not popular when Sakurai was looking for a Pokemon, he wasn't even known yet.
And you can bet that Game Freak have plans for him.

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions that are really unjustified. We don't know when the character was finalized, he could've been done after XY came out, we don't know when it happened.

Similarly, you keep saying "because GF wanted it," then tell me why it didn't happen yet. Blaziken was promoted before his generation, as was Lucario, as was Zoroark, that didn't happen with Greninja. Hell, the majority of the Kalos 'Mons were shown off before the character was even revealed to the public. Also, there hasn't been any change in how the character was promoted even after XY and his massive popularity. So tell me, where's the immediate gain in GF in promoting that character when they haven't so far given it anymore attention then others currently and in the foreseeable future?

Also, what about PT? He wasn't promoted all that much before and after Brawl until XY, so where's his promotion? What about Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur? Where were they? They were all characters that were not heavily pushed by the company at that point in time and got in because of a concept Sakurai himself wanted. Even assuming the choices happened in the past, that could've been the reason for picking the character, it doesn't have to be just because of what GF wants.

The character could've been picked for a lot of other reasons, it doesn't have to be because it catered to the home company.

 

[Starphoenix]

View attachment 11951
If ivysaur is indeed cut, I'm just going to leave this here. Don't mind me

This one is for you rebellious treecko.

Sweet, Dark Pit confirmed!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why should people have to justify having six Pokémon characters if everyone was perfectly fine with having seven before?

Especially if Mario already technically has eight fighters and is expected to have 10.

Technically, technically, technically. Sakurai CLEARLY uses minor details to get around balancing the character select screen. Giving different icons, putting characters into one, regardless of the fact that he acknowledges that there are factually 39 characters total doesn't mean he doesn't acknowledge that there are theoretically 35. It's so obvious that (like I said) you would have to make excuses to make yourself believe otherwise.

What I'm trying to say is: Just because Pokemon has 6 characters total (and not separate) does not mean Sakurai is okay with more than 5 separated characters. Or at least not if there is more than Mario. The point is that there is a difference. This word "technically" is being thrown around to justify what you want. Well, Mario TECHNICALLY has 8 characters despite it clearly not being treated as such in game. Well, if that were true, I have doubts that we would see Rosalina because Sakurai has a thing about not wanting to over represent the Mario universe.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

...look, I'm not arguing that Lip can't or won't be in.

Look at my statement in context. TLMC thought that Sakurai liking Fire Emblem meant it was justifiable for that franchise to have 4 playable characters. I pointed out that, despite considering PDP a "masterpiece," Sakurai has yet to give the franchise much representation outside of minor content(like items, music, and cameos). Lip herself has never even appeared in a Smash game AT ALL.

I knew that. I wasn't going to argue it either. But I was just going to say that depending on what you were going to say that Sakurai has been giving Lip special treatment. Maybe it will never be as major as a character or even an assist trophy. But being referenced in other character's moveset, getting a very staple item and status effect, and a remixed song is something most characters would dream of getting represented by.

Heck, Ballon fighter is just now starting to get that kind of treatment. (Though, I'm clueless on that point as to why).

Also, my comment about Lip was more directed at everybody.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

Whoa, when did I say I wanted Greninja to be replaced by either of those two? They were just examples of Pokémon more pushed by the company, not examples of Pokémon I'd prefer over Greninja. I'm very happy he's in, and I'm glad it happened without having to be pushed by GF to do it, I just don't get the reasoning behind "He's only in because GF wanted it."

Got it. Sorry, it's just that before I was arguing with some guy that said how Blaziken deserved the spot.

Also, I don't think Greninja was forced into the game, seeing how he hasn't had as much of GF's support as some other pokemons.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, I wasn't there, so...

In all seriousness, I'm still 50/50 on Snake. I guess he would be high priority and Sakurai said no cuts, but Kojima said that he doesn't think Snake is coming back, and cuts are a thing.
So I'm stumped.

Keep in mind that when Sakurai said that he hadn't cut anyone yet (as of June, 2013 when he said that), he did not say that no one from Brawl was cut, but that no one he planned to be in SSB 3DS & Wii U was cut.

 

[Louie G.]

Keep in mind that when Sakurai said that he hadn't cut anyone yet (as of June, 2013 when he said that), he did not say that no one from Brawl was cut, but that no one he planned to be in SSB 3DS & Wii U was cut.

That's a really good point.
So it's a possibility that Snake was left out before the game even started, along with Squirt and Saur.
Well that shakes things up a lot.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think something is seriously wrong when Ridley is still on every roster and Balloon Fighter is "deconfirmed"

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think something is seriously wrong when Ridley is still on every roster and Balloon Fighter is "deconfirmed"

People will still deny it till the end of time.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

I think something is seriously wrong when Ridley is still on every roster and Balloon Fighter is "deconfirmed"

I agree with this, I've seen Ridley on a lot of rosters lately. I guess it's just hope that Sakurai is trolling and not serious about it.

 

[Deleted member]

That's a really good point.
So it's a possibility that Snake was left out before the game even started, along with Squirt and Saur.

That's what I'm betting happened. Sakurai may hates cuts, in fact more so than we do, but whatever cut choice he does make will have a justified reason. There are justifiable reasons to cut Snake, Squirtle and Ivysaur should they be absent; Snake is likely third-party related and the latter two due to game play reasons. It won't be because Sakurai thinks someone isn't "recent" enough to make a return, which is why I fully expect the return of "thin ice" characters like Ike, Lucas, and Wolf.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I think something is seriously wrong when Ridley is still on every roster and Balloon Fighter is "deconfirmed"

Kind of true, since it's still completely possible that Balloon Fighter can be playable, especially now that he has his own logo in the game.

 

[Louie G.]

Kind of true, since it's still completely possible that Balloon Fighter can be playable, especially now that he has his own logo in the game.

Yeah, just like Animal Crossing and Electroplankton, right?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

My Post-Direct Roster

Don't criticize Ridley.
If you have any questions about his inclusion, just see my various arguments on the Ridley thread.
I really don't want to start a flame war.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Yeah, just like Animal Crossing and Electroplankton, right?

Well, Animal Crossing almost got itself a character, and I don't even know what kind of franchise Electroplankton is, so I don't even know if it has a feasable character or not. It helps him some, as if the Balloon Fighter stage had a Smash symbol, we'd know Balloon Fighter is gone for good.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Kind of true, since it's still completely possible that Balloon Fighter can be playable, especially now that he has his own logo in the game.

Except when a character like Link, Sonic, Chrom, or Shrapnel pops his balloons. Let that happen and (drumroll)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
(Sploosh)

 

[MagnesD3]

My Post-Direct Roster

Don't criticize Ridley.
If you have any questions about his inclusion, just see my various arguments on the Ridley thread.
I really don't want to start a flame war.

Lip and tingle seem unlikely to me, everything else looks great.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

My Post-Direct Roster

Don't criticize Ridley.
If you have any questions about his inclusion, just see my various arguments on the Ridley thread.
I really don't want to start a flame war.

Why Tingle? I've seen him quite a bit.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Except when a character like Link, Sonic, Chrom, or Shrapnel pops his balloons. Let that happen and (drumroll)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
(Sploosh)

That's why he has an Air Pump move, kind of simular to Olimar's Neutral B.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I find it a bit odd how stage-only series always have their own symbols, while Assist Trophies don't and only use the Smash icon.

Maybe it's so that people don't mistake the ATs for playable characters or get the idea that a character from said series will appear later.

----

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

That's why he has an Air Pump move, kind of simular to Olimar's Neutral B.

Well since you've put it that way, I'm fine with Balloon Fighter now

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

Update Wish Roster.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

• Technically Zelda had less than Pokemon in 64. So it's okay now.
• Technically Pokemon had 6 characters, 3 of which were integrated into one. So it's okay to have 6 separated ones.
• Yoshi and Donkey are technically Mario, so the game treats them as such because we do.

All these things just make me not even want to bother arguing. They are clearly excuses that people won't drop so they can get the character they want. And all I can say is that, like I was in the past, you'll be disappointed when you find out that stuff in Smash doesn't go by the rules we say they should. Just like we say that Mario doesn't need more reps and we get Rosalina after we argued how low priority she'd be compared to our lord and savior: Bowser Jr.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

View attachment 11955
Update Wish Roster.

I'd be fine with six Pokemon guys, but SEVEN? That just looks off!

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

View attachment 11955
Update Wish Roster.

This is cool. I'd like to see Septile even though it probably would not happen.

 

[Autumn ♫]

You know, I'm not quite as opposed to having Sheik in a seperate roster slot than I would have thought I would, because I've always figured that if Sheik gets seperated from Zelda, than Sheik should just be cut for Impa.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Again, you're making a lot of assumptions that are really unjustified. We don't know when the character was finalized, he could've been done after XY came out, we don't know when it happened.

Finalized? No, he's probably not finalized yet even since the game is still in development. But we know that Sakurai was looking for characters a long time ago, before Greninja ever showed up. Tell me how he's going to pick a character he knows nothing about unless Game Freak showed it to him? When a character is picked =/= when it is finalized, there's a giant gap of development between that.

Similarly, you keep saying "because GF wanted it," then tell me why it didn't happen yet. Blaziken was promoted before his generation, as was Lucario, as was Zoroark, that didn't happen with Greninja. Hell, the majority of the Kalos 'Mons were shown off before the character was even revealed to the public. Also, there hasn't been any change in how the character was promoted even after XY and his massive popularity. So tell me, where's the immediate gain in GF in promoting that character when they haven't so far given it anymore attention then others currently and in the foreseeable future?

http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/lucario.html
You're making as many assumptions as me, so don't try to just pin it down on me. Why wasn't Blaziken chosen for Brawl? Hello again, Lucario. Why not Zoroark now? Zoroark isn't new, Greninja is. No change in how Greninja is promoted? Why would they need to if he's already gotten so popular alone? How do you know they aren't? That's a big assumption there right? You don't know what role he'll play in the next movie, hell, Ash has a Froakie in the anime, it was apparently the first Pokemon he caught in Kalos even, he's already getting promotion.

Also, what about PT? He wasn't promoted all that much before and after Brawl until XY, so where's his promotion? What about Charizard, Squirtle and Ivysaur? Where were they? They were all characters that were not heavily pushed by the company at that point in time and got in because of a concept Sakurai himself wanted. Even assuming the choices happened in the past, that could've been the reason for picking the character, it doesn't have to be just because of what GF wants.

The character could've been picked for a lot of other reasons, it doesn't have to be because it catered to the home company.

The Trainer got in alongside the heavily promoted Pokemon, see Lucario above.
Again, it is Sakurai's choice in the end, but they still suggest things to him and he still asks them for the suggestions in the first place. He probably asked about the Pokemon Trainer after they shoved Lucario off on him, yes, an assumption.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

This may seem totally random, but I'm predicting a character reveal tomorrow

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

View attachment 11955
Update Wish Roster.

I'm still keeping my expectations low, but I can't help but grin at how people suddenly think Sceppy has a remote chance at Smash Bros now.

----

 

[Sehnsucht]

• Technically Zelda had less than Pokemon in 64. So it's okay now.
• Technically Pokemon had 6 characters, 3 of which were integrated into one. So it's okay to have 6 separated ones.
• Yoshi and Donkey are technically Mario, so the game treats them as such because we do.

All these things just make me not even want to bother arguing. They are clearly excuses that people won't drop so they can get the character they want. And all I can say is that, like I was in the past, you'll be disappointed when you find out that stuff in Smash doesn't go by the rules we say they should. Just like we say that Mario doesn't need more reps and we get Rosalina after we argued how low priority she'd be compared to our lord and savior: Bowser Jr.

This would be a problem if there was a standard to which we were being accountable.

But we're just a gaggle of Internet jagoffs passing the time until the game is released. At least, I am, anyway.

That said, I'd be interested in your thoughts on what objective rules there might be, divorced from the sentiments and preconceptions of the fanbase. If we're making up rules and criteria that don't reflect reality, then what is the reality?

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

I'd be fine with six Pokemon guys, but SEVEN? That just looks off!

I don't know why but it seem wired not adding a grass type starter pokemon.

 

[Deleted member]

This may seem totally random, but I'm predicting a character reveal tomorrow

I dunno, kind of seems a bit too soon after the Direct happened.

I'd probably wait another week or so.

 

[Joe D.]

I'm gonna be optimistic and say that the seperated characters and newcomers are hinting at a nice, comfy, big, diverse roster. (Please don't hurt me.)

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I dunno, kind of seems a bit too soon after the Direct happened.

I'd probably wait another week or so.

I know, but I've just got this weird feeling inside of me. I don't know who it would be, but I feel like someone will step into the spotlight tomorrow.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Lip and tingle seem unlikely to me, everything else looks great.

Why Tingle? I've seen him quite a bit.

Now let me clarify that this is not about the 3 biggest series having to be equal.
This is about the 3 biggest series each deserving newcomers.

Both Mario and Pokémon have full-fledged newcomers, and I feel that if they get ones, Zelda should too.

As for why Tingle, he is a recurring character, and is very unique and has a wide variety of moveset potential.
He could be vastly different from any other fighter we've seen, and could bring something completely new to Smash. And considering we got Rosalina and Greninja over other potential newcomers, it seems that this is what Sakurai is looking for.


About Lip, I chose her over Takamaru as a retro character because uniqueness again.
Greninja brought a lot of Samurai aspects with him to Smash, and it would be kind of pointless to bring in samurai when you already have a Water Frog-Samurai, especially with Sakurai liking uniqueness.

 

[Kenith]

This may seem totally random, but I'm predicting a character reveal tomorrow

You know, I find it funny that every time I hear someone say that, there isn't a reveal.

 

[Arcanir]

Finalized? No, he's probably not finalized yet even since the game is still in development. But we know that Sakurai was looking for characters a long time ago, before Greninja ever showed up. Tell me how he's going to pick a character he knows nothing about unless Game Freak showed it to him? When a character is picked =/= when it is finalized, there's a giant gap of development between that.

Assuming that, same reason as any other character, he was presented with options, went with the ones he liked. There's nothing saying they have a complete say over what he chooses, if he didn't like what he saw, he may've not have picked him, simple as that.

http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/lucario.html
You're making as many assumptions as me, so don't try to just pin it down on me. Why wasn't Blaziken chosen for Brawl? Hello again, Lucario. Why not Zoroark now? Zoroark isn't new, Greninja is. No change in how Greninja is promoted? Why would they need to if he's already gotten so popular alone? How do you know they aren't? That's a big assumption there right? You don't know what role he'll play in the next movie, hell, Ash has a Froakie in the anime, it was apparently the first Pokemon he caught in Kalos even, he's already getting promotion.

You missed the point, all three of them were examples of characters promoted before their games release. Greninja is not under the same circumstance, he was not promoted before XY's release so he never had the push they had prior to his reveal, SSB-wise or Pokémon-wise.

The role he plays is the same as Delphox as far as advertising is concerned, so again, he's being treated the same way as the others.

Ash had a Turtwig as well, and it wasn't the most promoted of the three lines, in fact it was the least. Also, Blaziken is the most popular in Hoenn, but he was instead given Treecko while the cute little chick was given to May. Froakie being chosen doesn't dictate that he was destined to be the most promoted, otherwise those two would've been.

Again, it is Sakurai's choice in the end, but they still suggest things to him and he still asks them for the suggestions in the first place. He probably asked about the Pokemon Trainer after they shoved Lucario off on him, yes, an assumption.

And again, suggestions he doesn't have to listen to. PT is an example of a character that wasn't pushed that he chose for his own reasons. Also, we don't know the full circumstances of Lucario either, we do know he's the hot Pokémon that he typically looks at, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's all that played into that choice, there could be other reasons there that we don't know as he hasn't expanded why he chose Lucario.

In short, nothing you've given has really proven that GF had a complete say in the choice. The character is not pushed, he's still not being pushed currently, and there's not any information to say that GF had that much influence. So it's haphazard at this point to suggest that it was the main reason.

 

[The Black mage]

Augggghhh... I have been gone for awhile...
So... what's up? Any interesting discussion here?

 

[Starcutter]

Augggghhh... I have been gone for awhile...
So... what's up? Any interesting discussion here?

A while? You saw the direct, right?

 

[The Black mage]

A while? You saw the direct, right?

YES.
But excuse me for while, I am still trying to find the fragments of my mind. I think they are still scattered after it exploded from smash overload.