Character Discussion Thread

[The Black mage]

This community would riot in the streets if Krystal gets in before Ridley or K Rool.

Can't agree more, even if I honestly don't support them as much as others.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Biased predictions don't work out too well.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

This community would riot in the streets if Krystal gets in before Ridley or K Rool.

Just exactly what makes you think that? That's kinda ridiculous

 

[Shalashaska]

I honestly don't know what to expect anymore after the Greninja reveal.

 

[9Volt]

Quote me if you will, but I think the next veteran will be the Ice Climbers, and the next Newcomer will be Krystal.

If Krystal is in she will gonna be secret like Falco and Wolf.
Probably the next newcomer is Palutena or KI Related...

 

[Kenith]

Just exactly what makes you think that? That's kinda ridiculous

....you haven't spent a lot of time here, have you?

This community collectively hates Krystal for many different reasons.

 

[The Black mage]

I honestly don't know what to expect anymore after the Greninja reveal.

And how.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Guys! The next newcomer will likely be shown at E3! We will get probably 3 newcomers!

 

[9Volt]

I love Krystal! Don´t know why people hate her.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

....you haven't spent a lot of time here, have you?

This community collectively hates Krystal for many different reasons.

I've been here for over a month, but you must know that hating is no excuse.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Guys! The next newcomer will likely be shown at E3! We will get probably 3 newcomers!

Seems reasonable. Bonus points if they share the same Trailer video.

For the three that could be shown, I say:

Palutena

Isaac

Ridley (because Sakurai has not shown his model off completely)

 

[Kenith]

I've been here for over a month, but you must know that hating is no excuse.

I'm sorry, but in this case, I think it is justified.
Star Fox getting four characters before F Zero gets two...that would be sad.

 

[MagnesD3]

Quote me if you will, but I think the next veteran will be the Ice Climbers, and the next Newcomer will be Krystal.

I wish for Krystal I truly do

 

[AEMehr]

Huh. Would Luma really be counted by Sakurai as a separate character from Rosalina due to its different moves and the fact that it can be slightly controlled?

Luma is more independent than the Pikmin, but not quite at the level of the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon.

My point was that it probably took roughly the same amount of development time as a separate character. That said, I'm it counts for something.

I seriously doubt that Rosalina and Luma are two separate characters

They both have different moves and are different enough. You're not going to play as the Luma alone anytime soon, but as far as Sakurai may be concerned, the Luma is practically another playable character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Seems reasonable. Bonus points if they share the same Trailer video.

For the three that could be shown, I say:

Palutena

Isaac

Ridley (because Sakurai has not shown his model off completely)

I hope so.

 

[NickerBocker]

I love Krystal! Don´t know why people hate her.

Not all of us hate Krystal. I dont hate her, I'm just going to be realistic. Theres a few reasons why she wont be included. Mainly, Starfox not needing or warranting another addition, combined with Krystal not having as big an impact on Nintendo as characters like K Rool and Ridley, who have both had big impact amongst their respective series.

Starfox this time around should be mainly focusing on differentiating themselves from eachother. While I dont mind similarities, there needs to be some changeups, especially their final smashes. The one way Krystal could have her chances improved would be if Wolf is cut (which I doubt. )

 

[MagnesD3]

Not all of us hate Krystal. I dont hate her, I'm just going to be realistic. Theres a few reasons why she wont be included. Mainly, Starfox not needing or warranting another addition, combined with Krystal not having as big an impact on Nintendo as characters like K Rool and Ridley, who have both had big impact amongst their respective series.

Starfox this time around should be mainly focusing on differentiating themselves from eachother. While I dont mind similarities, there needs to be some changeups, especially their final smashes. The one way Krystal could have her chances improved would be if Wolf is cut (which I doubt. )

If we get a new star fox at e3 she could get in tho, but that's a sadly big if...

Also wolf should never be cut.

 

[AEMehr]

Three newcomers at E3 would probably be a likely situation, with (hopefully) a handful of veterans.
If the previous E3 was anything to go by, we'll at least get two newcomers I'd say.

But I agree with CliffJumper on half of his future predictions, it would be the perfect time to reveal the Ice Climbers later this month with NES/Famicom Remix 1+2 releasing in Japan on the 24th this month.

 

[The Light Music Club]

In regards to Pac-Man and the namco AT, I still don't think it proves anything. Had it been a character from his series like Ms. Pacman or Blinky then I would say, yes for sure he is in, but every third party that has been in smash, all three have gotten there very own AT from their series. A Galga item in my eyes doesn't mean too much, especially since Sonic I think still doesn't have an item himself.

 

[EddyBearr]

I wasn't really surprised at all by independent Charizard nor by Greninja. I expected Ridley's perceived delegation.
Still expecting R.O.B. to be cut.

 

[MangoTwist]

The two newcomers should be mewtwo and K Rool. Not even kidding.

This roster is definitely the most likely one at this point.

 

[Starphoenix]

Pac-Man, Mii and Shulk would be my likely guesses for newcomers at E3.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I wasn't really surprised at all by independent Charizard nor by Greninja. I expected Ridley's perceived delegation.
Still expecting R.O.B. to be cut.

Any reasoning behind this? Is it because R.O.B. is unimpressive as a character?

 

[Gune]

Still expecting R.O.B. to be cut.

Why?

 

[MagnesD3]

....you haven't spent a lot of time here, have you?

This community collectively hates Krystal for many different reasons.

Not really, Krystal is very popular and very hated so its a strange situation.

 

[The Black mage]

I am neutral on this Krystal buisness...
I honestly would say we got all we need from Star fox, but it still feels a bit empty, with 3 clones in such a mix.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Little Mac was our "retro".

Thank you.
It's pretty damn clear that despite Punch-Out having a new game in modern times, Mac's being milked as a classic character with multiple references to the original Arcade game. Even though he wasn't even in that game.

 

[MagnesD3]

The 3 E3 newcomers I feel we will be seeing are Ridley, Shulk or Mii and Pacman.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Thank you.
It's pretty damn clear that despite Punch-Out having a new game in modern times, Mac's being milked as a classic character with multiple references to the original Arcade game. Even though he wasn't even in that game.

Back when he was revealed, there was some kind of thread or article posted where Japanese fans didn't seem to be as excited as Western fans. I think most of them saw Mac as a retro.

----

 

[Substitution]

I am neutral on this Krystal buisness...
I honestly would say we got all we need from Star fox, but it still feels a bit empty, with 3 clones in such a mix.

But they aren't.
Falco is a semi-clone at best. And Wolf isn't even that, he's his own character.

 

[N3ON]

The entirety of Wolf's special moveset is based on Fox's, even if it doesn't function in the exact same way.
No one is calling him a direct clone, or even as cloney as Falco, but a semi-clone? Yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

I would say Wolf is a space animal before a clone. It's a small distinction; he's "cloned" from a formula that every StarFox character follows to a tee. He is more-or-less his own character as though he does follow that formula, the way he does follow it isn't remotely similar to Fox or Falco. Same as Lucas.

 

[N3ON]

Thank you.
It's pretty damn clear that despite Punch-Out having a new game in modern times, Mac's being milked as a classic character with multiple references to the original Arcade game. Even though he wasn't even in that game.

Though Sakurai did say the classic character he had in mind this time around could potentially be revived as Pit was. Considering Mac has already been revived, I doubt that's who Sakurai was referring to.

I would say Wolf is a space animal before a clone. It's a small distinction; he's "cloned" from a formula that every StarFox character follows to a tee. He is more-or-less his own character as though he does follow that formula, the way he does follow it isn't remotely similar to Fox or Falco. Same as Lucas.

As I see it, being cloned from the formula originated by Fox makes him a clone, and deviating from that formula in the notable way he does makes him only a partial, or semi-clone. But he is still made from the same formula as Fox was... so that's why I still see him as a cloned (but very different) character.

Others do see things differently though.

 

[EddyBearr]

Any reasoning behind this? Is it because R.O.B. is unimpressive as a character?

Why?

Not the most popular, not a popular Nintendo character, not from a noteworthy franchise by any definition, doesn't seem to fit in with character theme very well (far better as an assist trophy or regular enemy [a-la fighting wire frames]), poor perception in beginning that didn't see much rejuvenation, only recognition stems from "video game historians" or hardcore Brawl fan, etc.

We're gonna have cuts, and I see R.O.B. as among the top contenders because he's not really a "Nintendo character" like the others are (which is largely the source of the majority of my contentions.) Conceptual clones, R.O.B., and Snake are who I consider the most likely to go. Unique & popular/recognizable Nintendo characters only.

The entirety of Wolf's special moveset is based on Fox's, even if it doesn't function in the exact same way.
No one is calling him a direct clone, or even as cloney as Falco, but a semi-clone? Yeah.

I call them full-blown [conceptual] clones.

I would say Wolf is a space animal before a clone. It's a small distinction; he's "cloned" from a formula that every StarFox character follows to a tee. He is more-or-less his own character as though he does follow that formula, the way he does follow it isn't remotely similar to Fox or Falco. Same as Lucas.

Ergo, conceptual clone. The more concepts we can fit into smash bros, the better (I'd assume.) If we waste 3/50 slots on "space animals" or 4/50 on "fast, pretty boy swordsmen" then I think that's a huge waste of potential given the context that smash bros is a game so dynamic that "fire breathing spike turtles" and "iron-tailed electric rats" are utilized concepts.

As I see it, being cloned from the formula originated by Fox makes him a clone, and deviating from that formula in the notable way he does makes him only a partial, or semi-clone. But he is still made from the same formula as Fox was... so that's why I still see him as a cloned (but very different) character.

To elaborate on it, I think of differentiating between conceptual clones and fighting style clones, because what seems the same might fight differently, and what seems different might fight the same. Past that, I try to look at fighting style from an "intermediate" perspective, for players who play often enough, mostly know the movesets, but don't know the optimization that Smashboard users might know (EX: using falco's pillaring.) At a high skill level, fox and falco are greatly different in fighting style, but at a more intermediate level, they're just clones. At a high level, they're "semi-clones".

 

[Deleted member]

Ergo, conceptual clone. The more concepts we can fit into smash bros, the better (I'd assume.) If we waste 3/50 slots on "space animals" or 4/50 on "fast, pretty boy swordsmen" then I think that's a huge waste of potential given the context that smash bros is a game so dynamic that "fire breathing spike turtles" and "iron-tailed electric rats" are utilized concepts.

Conceptual clone is a good term for it, but I don't think it's necessarily all that bad to have a few. Some characters necessitate similarities to other characters but can be fun in their own right simply by adding a spin to the formula that created its predecessor. See: Wolf, Lucas, Roy, Dr. Mario. I agree I'd rather have unique sets, but there is any worth in clones. I'd say while Roy and Dr. Mario lean towards waste, Wolf and Lucas do enough on their own to be worthy characters, so they don't deserve the "clone" label. Even then, I'd agree a roster full of them would be bad, but a few isn't going to ruin anything.

 

[N3ON]

^Wasn't me who said what you're quoting.

But yeah, conceptual clone is a good term. Personally I think both conceptual clones and gameplay clones fit under the umbrella of semi-clone (assuming there are still some differences in gameplay with the gameplay clones - like most of the clones in Brawl).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I just relized something

You know items and enemy's make some character obvious now


Samari gorah = captain falcon

The polar pear with the pink speedos as a enemy = ice climbers

Mr Saturn/franklin badge = ness/lucas/both

Halberd stage = meta knight

You there's a couple of more for other veterans and newcomers but

Isn't this correct

Super scope = R.O.B

I mean I know that gun was there since melee but it is a nes accessory and so is rob so I think the gun and him are connect

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Not the most popular, not a popular Nintendo character, not from a noteworthy franchise by any definition, doesn't seem to fit in with character theme very well (far better as an assist trophy or regular enemy [a-la fighting wire frames]), poor perception in beginning that didn't see much rejuvenation, only recognition stems from "video game historians" or hardcore Brawl fan, etc.

We're gonna have cuts, and I see R.O.B. as among the top contenders because he's not really a "Nintendo character" like the others are (which is largely the source of the majority of my contentions.) Conceptual clones, R.O.B., and Snake are who I consider the most likely to go. Unique & popular/recognizable Nintendo characters only.

And yet he got in nonetheless. Shouldn't that tell you that R.O.B. will very much follow Mr. Game & Watch in being an unexpected, very-retro character that will recur in multiple Smash Bros.? We're not talking about adding him for the first time, we're talking about him returning. Characters are likely to be cut if they're hard to develop (i.e. Pokemon Trainer) or hard to gain license to (i.e. Snake). R.O.B. doesn't seem necessarily difficult to re-add at all.

R.O.B. is otherwise very much a "Nintendo character". Between having various cameos and being essentially the thing that got video games as a whole started up once again after the Video Game Crash of 1983, he doesn't have a series to speak of, but he sure is an important Nintendo figure, I'd say.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

And yet he got in nonetheless. Shouldn't that tell you that R.O.B. will very much follow Mr. Game & Watch in being an unexpected, very-retro character that will recur in multiple Smash Bros.? We're not talking about adding him for the first time, we're talking about him returning. Characters are likely to be cut if they're hard to develop (i.e. Pokemon Trainer) or hard to gain license to (i.e. Snake). R.O.B. doesn't seem necessarily difficult to re-add at all.

R.O.B. is otherwise very much a "Nintendo character". Between having various cameos and being essentially the thing that got video games as a whole started up once again after the Video Game Crash of 1983, he doesn't have a series to speak of, but he sure is an important Nintendo figure, I'd say.

And in my opinion for one more thing that helps him

Not to mention the super scope is a item again a item from the nes accessories just like R.O.B

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not the most popular, not a popular Nintendo character, not from a noteworthy franchise by any definition, doesn't seem to fit in with character theme very well (far better as an assist trophy or regular enemy [a-la fighting wire frames]), poor perception in beginning that didn't see much rejuvenation, only recognition stems from "video game historians" or hardcore Brawl fan, etc.

We're gonna have cuts, and I see R.O.B. as among the top contenders because he's not really a "Nintendo character" like the others are (which is largely the source of the majority of my contentions.) Conceptual clones, R.O.B., and Snake are who I consider the most likely to go. Unique & popular/recognizable Nintendo characters only.

He is a unique character? Having distinct moves such as laser eyes, spin attack, Gyromite projectile, and a jet boost. Is that not unique. "Doesn't seem to fit" and "not really a Nintendo character" is only your opinion, but why do you think he added him in the first place?