Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I'm to go on the Devil's Advocate here and say that Luma isn't quite in "individual" territory given that Luma is essentially an extension of Rosalina.

 

[Andinus]

What characters are we sure about not returning?

My guess for the cuts are squirtle, ivysaur, snake, wolf, rob, and possibly either ice climbers or game and watch. I think Ike and Lucas could be out too, but if they are they at least will be replaced with a new character from their franchise.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

My friend thinks that shadow is a far more likely newcomer than Palutena... A moment of silence if you please.

As much as I agree that it sounds crazy, I don't consider Shadow as dead at this point, he's just not likely.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Shadow will, fortunately, never be playable.

 

[NickerBocker]

Rosalina and Luma are different characters, in that they are not the same entity. In Smash Bros, they work together and act as a single entity, and take up only 1 slot on the selection screen. From a development standpoint, The two together may have taken extra dev time to really come into fruition, due tot he complexity of the design.

Bottom line is, we shouldn't be worrying about these technicalities. There's 5 Mario slots on the roster currently.

 

[Joe D.]

So I am extremely prepared for the backlash I am about to receive.

As a supporter of Krystal, this direct made me a bit more confident in her possible inclusion. A LOT of potential and circulated characters were de-confirmed, but not her. It may not mean anything, but a lot of potential Roster slots have re-opened, and maybe she might be moving in.

Also, if the bigger roster theory is true, then adding her wouldn't take as much of a character's chance as we thought. Hell, for all we know Mr. Sakurai maybe just plain out say, "let's add another Star Fox character!" Point is, I feel a little bit more confidence, but we shall wait and see.

Of course, i'm just stating my opinion.

 

[Hotfeet444]

My guess for the cuts are squirtle, ivysaur, snake, wolf, rob, and possibly either ice climbers or game and watch. I think Ike and Lucas could be out too, but if they are they at least will be replaced with a new character from their franchise.

I highly doubt Lucas, as far as Japan is concerned, will ever be cut at this point. The only other characters I see even possibly getting the boot aside from Squirtle and Ivysaur are Snake (A rare chance) and Jigglypuff. And considering Wolf was an idea since Melee and is indeed his own character...I highly doubt he'd be cut.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Shadow will, fortunately, never be playable.

He could if Nintendo buys up SEGA, which is by no means impossible.

 

[Deleted member]

My guess for the cuts are squirtle, ivysaur, snake, wolf, rob, and possibly either ice climbers or game and watch. I think Ike and Lucas could be out too, but if they are they at least will be replaced with a new character from their franchise.

Theres no way ROB will get cut...

I don't even know why people think he's up on the chopping block.

 

[N3ON]

Why exactly are people predicting a Lucas cut? It's not like we'd get a new Mother character in his place. Japan still likes him. Now the west likes him to.

The "we don't need Ness and Lucas" argument is extra ridiculous, as if Brawl doesn't exist. It's clear what Sakurai thinks.

 

[Eight Melodies]

He could if Nintendo buys up SEGA, which is by no means impossible.

He still wouldn't get in before Tails or Knuckles.

 

[Sehnsucht]

He could if Nintendo buys up SEGA, which is by no means impossible.

In your view, what is the probability that Nintendo will buy up SEGA within the next five years?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

He still wouldn't get in before Tails or Knuckles.

True, but he could still be in if Nintendo owned SEGA.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Theres no way ROB will get cut...

I don't even know why people think he's up on the chopping block.

Because people think that since you're a toy you're not a real Nintendo character...dumb, I know.

Game & Watch and ROB, as far as I'm concerned, are easily in. We just won't see them until the game releases is all. Same with Falco, Ganondorf, Ness, Captain Falcon and a few others.

 

[FalKoopa]

He could if Nintendo buys up SEGA, which is by no means impossible.

It's still too late for Smash 4 though.

 

[Eight Melodies]

True, but he could still be in if Nintendo owned SEGA.

I guess, but Sonic would have to have as many characters as Mario probably.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

In your view, what is the probability that Nintendo will buy up SEGA within the next five years?

85%
Here, watch this. (And no, this isn't me!)

EDIT: @ FalKoopa
Sadly yes

 

[Eight Melodies]

Why exactly are people predicting a Lucas cut? It's not like we'd get a new Mother character in his place. Japan still likes him. Now the west likes him to.

The "we don't need Ness and Lucas" argument is extra ridiculous, as if Brawl doesn't exist. It's clear what Sakurai thinks.

The general consensus in Japan is that Lucas and Mother 3 are terrible. Still think he's not terribly likely to be cut though.

 

[AEMehr]

I'm to go on the Devil's Advocate here and say that Luma isn't quite in "individual" territory given that Luma is essentially an extension of Rosalina.

It's still another character that has probably taken roughly the same amount of development time as any other character.
Whether Luma is seen by fans as a separate entity or not does not matter, the character took the same amount of development time as any other fighter just like each transformation character in previous games. Those characters are seen as separate entities and, for Sakurai, count towards the full roster. This situation is no different.
Mario "technically" sits at 6 fighters: just as Pokémon was seen as "technically" having 6 in Brawl, Zelda having 5 in Melee / Brawl, Metroid having two in Brawl, and everyone expecting 7 playable Pokémon characters in this game if transformation characters were still a thing.

This entire argument started with the notion that it's not okay to have more than 5 Pokémon character, and my point was that there has never been an issue with 7 Pokémon characters before. Now several people are against having 6 (the same amount we had in Brawl) for reasons Sakurai has never cared for before.

He could if Nintendo buys up SEGA, which is by no means impossible.

Even if that happened (which I heavily doubt it will) Tails is the obv next choice like srsly

My guess for the cuts are rob, and possibly either ice climbers or game and watch..

R.O.B.? Mr. Game & Watch? Ice Climbers?
Maybe R.O.B. has a miniscule chance of being cut, but Ice Climbers are practically confirmed at this point. As is Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[N3ON]

The general consensus in Japan is that Lucas and Mother 3 are terrible. Still think he's not terribly likely to be cut though.

If that were the case there wouldn't be so many requests for Kumatora, Porky, Claus, and even occasionally Flint and Duster coming from them.

 

[Deleted member]

The general consensus in Japan is that Lucas and Mother 3 are terrible. Still think he's not terribly likely to be cut though.

Ah-waitwaitwaitwait what, Japan thinks Lucas & Mother 3 are terrible?!

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Ah-waitwaitwaitwait what, Japan thinks Lucas & Mother 3 are terrible?!

Please tell me you're joking.

http://earthboundcentral.com/2013/04/mother-3-and-japanese-fans-revisited/

It's gotten more praise in the West despite it not even being officially released here.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You can continue believing in your pipe dream all you want, but it's not gonna happen.

You've completely ignored my reasoning and backup about the chance of Nintendo buying SEGA this whole time, haven't you?

 

[Deleted member]

It's still another character that has probably taken roughly the same amount of development time as any other character.
Whether Luma is seen by fans as a separate entity or not does not matter, the character took the same amount of development time as any other fighter just like each transformation character in previous games. Those characters are seen as separate entities and, for Sakurai, count towards the full roster. This situation is no different.
Mario "technically" sits at 6 fighters: just as Pokémon was seen as "technically" having 6 in Brawl, Zelda having 5 in Melee / Brawl, Metroid having two in Brawl, and everyone expecting 7 playable Pokémon characters in this game if transformation characters were still a thing.

This entire argument started with the notion that it's not okay to have more than 5 Pokémon character, and my point was that there has never been an issue with 7 Pokémon characters before. Now several people are against having 6 (the same amount we had in Brawl) for reasons Sakurai has never cared for before.

I still find it hard to count Luma at even pre-Wii U/3DS Sheik and Zero Suit level.

 

[Joe D.]

.....aaaaaaand everyone ignored my post

 

[Sehnsucht]

You've completely ignored my reasoning and backup about the chance of Nintendo buying SEGA this whole time, haven't you?

If we consider a scenario in which SEGA is acquired by Nintendo, how many Sonic characters would a post-acquisition Smash game have?

And how many other non-Sonic SEGA characters would warrant playable status?

 

[Hotfeet444]

http://earthboundcentral.com/2013/04/mother-3-and-japanese-fans-revisited/

It's gotten more praise in the West despite it not even being officially released here.

Still makes no sense considering Lucas was still one of the top three requested characters for Brawl IN JAPAN.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Still makes no sense considering Lucas was still one of the top three requested characters for Brawl IN JAPAN.

What was the source for this poll?

 

[Hotfeet444]

What was the source for this poll?

A giant poll held pre-brawl to ask what characters they want in Smash Bros. Accordingly, almost every single character wanted by Japan made it into the game, save for a few such as Toad and King K.Rool. Dedede, Lucas, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Olimar, etc. They all scored really high on this list. Not saying this effected anything, but to say that Mother 3's hate is enough to cut Lucas...would've already been a factor against his initial inclusion in Brawl in terms of requesting numbers.

 

[AEMehr]

You've completely ignored my reasoning and backup about the chance of Nintendo buying SEGA this whole time, haven't you?

Well it's kinda unrelated to Smash 4 Character discussion, so yes I've scrolled over it.

Either way Shadow isn't getting in over Tails and Knuckles, if it did happen.

I still find it hard to count Luma at even pre-Wii U/3DS Sheik and Zero Suit level.

Obviously it isn't at the same level, but it is close enough.

Also, if the bigger roster theory is true, then adding her wouldn't take as much of a character's chance as we thought. Hell, for all we know Mr. Sakurai maybe just plain out say, "let's add another Star Fox character!" Point is, I feel a little bit more confidence, but we shall wait and see.

Well see the problem here is that Sakurai says he hasn't added any of the new characters for cheap novelty or something along those lines, he's added them for what they bring to that table.
So I heavily doubt he'll say anything like, "let's add another Star Fox character!".

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A giant poll held pre-brawl to ask what characters they want in Smash Bros. Accordingly, almost every single character wanted by Japan made it into the game, save for a few such as Toad and King K.Rool. Dedede, Lucas, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Olimar, etc. They all scored really high on this list. Not saying this effected anything, but to say that Mother 3's hate is enough to cut Lucas...would've already been a factor against his initial inclusion in Brawl in terms of requesting numbers.

Interesting.

 

[Joe D.]

Well it's kinda unrelated to Smash 4 Character discussion, so yes I've scrolled over it.

Either way Shadow isn't getting in over Tails and Knuckles, if it did happen.
Obviously it isn't at the same level, but it is close enough.
Well see the problem here is that Sakurai says he hasn't added any of the new characters for cheap novelty or something along those lines, he's added them for what they bring to that table.
So I heavily doubt he'll say anything like, "let's add another Star Fox character!".

Haha I figured that. Still, what do you think on what I posted? I was expecting more responses :/

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Haha I figured that. Still, what do you think on what I posted? I was expecting more responses :/

I myself was expecting both Falco and Krystal to be revealed at that Direct believe it or not.

 

[N3ON]

Mother 3 still didn't do poorly in Japan even if some fans over there complain about it. Regardless of the reception though, Lucas is and was a popular character over there. I don't think he was in the top 3 most requested... but he was certainly up there.

Even if games receive lackluster reception, their characters can still find popularity. Look at Ike and his games.

A giant poll held pre-brawl to ask what characters they want in Smash Bros. Accordingly, almost every single character wanted by Japan made it into the game, save for a few such as Toad and King K.Rool. Dedede, Lucas, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, Olimar, etc. They all scored really high on this list. Not saying this effected anything, but to say that Mother 3's hate is enough to cut Lucas...would've already been a factor against his initial inclusion in Brawl in terms of requesting numbers.

One would think a poll of this supposed magnitude would be fairly well known or at least easy to link to...

However, if Lucas really did land among the top three, one can attribute that to a popularity spike. This poll either took place before Mother 3 launched or in the month and a half afterwards if Meta-Knight is on it.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

If we consider a scenario in which SEGA is acquired by Nintendo, how many Sonic characters would a post-acquisition Smash game have?

And how many other non-Sonic SEGA characters would warrant playable status?

If such case happened, we'd probably see as much Sonic characters as Mario

Heck, I'd probably say three other Non-Sonic SEGA characters could make it.

 

[Sharkarat]

85%
Here, watch this. (And no, this isn't me!)

The thing is, Nintendo and Sega is so close that there's no need to buy Sega, because they're already giving them games.

 

[Joe D.]

I myself was expecting both Falco and Krystal to be revealed at that Direct believe it or not.

I honestly think that if she is included, she would just be in the game for us to find out. Too much backlash on the game if she was shown off early, let everyone besides us get upset after they buy it

 

[BlindFox]

I don't know if this have been already posted here, but anyway.

-images removed, please don't post memes-

I can't stop laughing. That facial expression xD

Sorry.

 

[Hotfeet444]

One would think a poll of this supposed magnitude would be fairly well known or at least easy to link to...

However, if Lucas really did land among the top three, one can attribute that to a popularity spike. This poll either took place before Mother 3 launched or in the month and a half afterwards if Meta-Knight is on it.

Well, if we're being techinical, it wasn't a "Poll" per-se, it was an invitation to Japanese Smash Bros fans to write in ideas for characters, stages, items, etc. Accordingly, many of the Brawl newcomers were amongst the top requested choices in said email/invitations.

 

[N3ON]

The thing is, Nintendo and Sega is so close that there's no need to buy Sega, because they're already giving them games.

Having a mutual partnership and having exclusive control over aren't quite the same thing.

I honestly think that if she is included, she would just be in the game for us to find out. Too much backlash on the game if she was shown off early, let everyone besides us get upset after they buy it

Literally the exact same thing could've been said about WFT. At least Krystal has a strong following even if she also has a strong hatebase.

Well, if we're being techinical, it wasn't a "Poll" per-se, it was an invitation to Japanese Smash Bros fans to write in ideas for characters, stages, items, etc. Accordingly, many of the Brawl newcomers were amongst the top requested choices.

But there still had to be results posted if you know Lucas's placement...

Also, that sounds quite a bit like the official poll, are you sure you aren't referring to that?