Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

You're again ignoring the fact that he chose Roy specifically to have a visually unique clone.

All of those characters could get in with a unique moveset, yes, Chrom could get in with a unique moveset, but you seem to think Roy can't get a new moveset.
He would have no reason to be a clone this time if brought back, he'd be just as unique as Chrom/Lucina could possibly be without looking like Marth to boot.

Perhaps you haven't played Smash recently, maybe you have forgotten about Falcondorf or Falco? Sakurai doesn't necessarily just de-clone characters, the fan-base of said character tends to grow accustomed to that particular play-style. If you alter it too drastically, you desecrate what players enjoyed about the character and alienate them. Project M Roy isn't even really de-cloned to the same extent that Toon Link is, as they want to retain that particular play-style. So if Sakurai wanted a newcomer with a new move-set, his first choice wouldn't be Roy. Roy would be a low priority clone, just like last time, and the time before that.

If we are just looking for a character aesthetically different, again, I believe Robin would be the more ideal choice.

 

[Louie G.]

You cut Lucas?

I think he's returning, but I find Lucas critically overrated.
Almost to Roy status, but not quite.

 

[Morbi]

I think he's returning, but I find Lucas critically overrated.
Almost to Roy status, but not quite.

I am not entirely sure what others say about Lucas, but he is much more fun than Ness in my opinion. I support Lucas as Ness doesn't do it for me. Lucas takes the play-style and alters it into something much more appealing. And like Roy's Fire, Lucas has the hair to be automatically unique. Seriously though, Lucas isn't really even a clone, semi-clone at best.

 

[Kenith]

I think he's returning, but I find Lucas critically overrated.
Almost to Roy status, but not quite.

I don't really care about him, either. But cutting him is not something I would imagine Sakurai is comfortable with, seeing as he added Lucas when most people wouldn't care about him at all.

 

[Golden Icarus]

It looks visually appealing, but you cut Snake for Pacman? You cut Lucas?

What?

I think he's returning, but I find Lucas critically overrated.
Almost to Roy status, but not quite.

I wanted to make at least a few cuts, and Lucas just made the most sense to me. As Louie G. said, he's in a similar position Roy was in: being a clone, unnecessary representation to a well-represented franchise, not hugely popular, etc.

As for Snake, well...I didn't want Lucas to be the only cut, so I flipped a coin between him and Wolf. Snake lost.

 

[Morbi]

I wanted to make at least a few cuts, and Lucas just made the most sense to me. As Louie G. said, he's in a similar position Roy was in: being a clone, unnecessary representation to a well-represented franchise, not hugely popular, etc.

As for Snake, well...I didn't want Lucas to be the only cut, so I flipped a coin between him and Wolf. Snake lost.

You know what is really interesting? You could have just cut Pokemon Trainer and avoided cutting two entirely unique characters with two different fan-bases. Imagine that.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What if Sakurai gave Cranky Kong earth powers like Isaac for a moveset?

That doesn't even make an ounce of sense...

 

[JamesDNaux]

@ JamesDNaux
If Sakurai were to bring back Roy, I would tell him to skip a FE character entirely.
The whole reason I find it likely is because AWAKENING is such an important and successful game.
That being said I have a hard time seeing Roy in Smash 4.

It's just that we aren't going to get a character solely for promotional purposes, he's not going to add Chrom just because he's the newest lord, which was my initial point. I was originally trying to point out that if Sakurai went for an Awakening character, he would pick someone unique rather than Chrom, I was trying to help Anna/Tiki/Robin/whoever else. You seemed to only take Roy out of that though, for whatever reason, even though he was used as an example.

Perhaps you haven't played Smash recently, maybe you have forgotten about Falcondorf or Falco? Sakurai doesn't necessarily just de-clone characters, the fan-base of said character tends to grow accustomed to that particular play-style. If you alter it too drastically, you desecrate what players enjoyed about the character and alienate them. Project M Roy isn't even really de-cloned to the same extent that Toon Link is, as they want to retain that particular play-style. So if Sakurai wanted a newcomer with a new move-set, his first choice wouldn't be Roy. Roy would be a low priority clone, just like last time, and the time before that.

If we are just looking for a character aesthetically different, again, I believe Robin would be the more ideal choice.

Well those two are kind of bad examples given that Roy wasn't in Brawl, there's a gap between Melee and SSB4 to where we were accustomed to not having Roy at all, I really doubt him coming back with a new moveset would alienate anyone, they'd just be happy as hell to see him even make it again. Even so, there are clear alterations to Bowser and Pit, so you can't say he wouldn't declone Roy, even Ganondorf might finally get his day to shine now. I do agree that Robin would be an ideal choice, the both of you are taking me way out of context here, as I told Weegee up there, I was trying to defend such characters before he brought up Roy.

That said, Roy is in the unique position of having been a Smash veteran who was only lost due to time constraints (he was too slow ), if Sakurai brings back Mewtwo because of fan demand, then it really wouldn't be far fetched to have Roy hitch along for the ride and gain a new moveset along the way.

 

[Dinoman96]

Glad to see the Discussion Thread is back and running. Well, guess it's time that I post my newest roster:

Spoiler

Characters= 50 + transformations
Newcomers=16:
Rosalina
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Mega Man
Dixie Kong
King K. Rool
Samurai Goroh
Palutena
Isaac
Shulk
Ridley
Ray 01
Little Mac
Takamaru
Mii
Pac-Man

Returning Veteran:
Mewtwo

Cut Veterans:
Lucas
Snake

If you have any questions about any specific character choices, feel free to ask them. Any feedback would be nice.

I like Ray 01 but I'm come to accept that he probably won't be in Smash due to Custom Robo being a very minor series. I also don't think a racing series like F-Zero needs a 2nd character.

I also don't see Ridley, Isaac and Shulk being in either, but that's just me. I'd say replace two out of the five with Snake and Lucas. At this point, there really is no need for any cuts.

 

[Autumn ♫]

You know what is really interesting? You could have just cut Pokemon Trainer and avoided cutting two entirely unique characters with two different fan-bases. Imagine that.

Cutting Pokemon trainer is cutting 3 different unique characters, I'd rather see Snake (which I hate see leaving) and Lucas leave.

 

[Golden Icarus]

I like Ray 01 but I'm come to accept that he probably won't be in Smash due to Custom Robo being a very minor series.

Yeah, I added him almost solely out of personal bias.

You know what is really interesting? You could have just cut Pokemon Trainer and avoided cutting two entirely unique characters with two different fan-bases. Imagine that.

Is Lucas more unique than Pokemon Trainer?

 

[Kenith]

As for Snake, well...I didn't want Lucas to be the only cut, so I flipped a coin between him and Wolf. Snake lost.

Flipping a coin? Well, you can't argue with that logic.

Kojima: Mr. Sakurai, will Solid Snake be appearing in the new Smash Bros. game?

Sakurai: Yeah, funny thing about that...you see, I had a bet with the president of Namco. We flipped a coin. If it landed on heads, Snake would appear in the game. If tails, Pacman replaced him.

Kojima: It landed on heads, right?

Sakurai: Nope [laughs].

 

[Morbi]

It's just that we aren't going to get a character solely for promotional purposes, he's not going to add Chrom just because he's the newest lord, which was my initial point. I was originally trying to point out that if Sakurai went for an Awakening character, he would pick someone unique rather than Chrom, I was trying to help Anna/Tiki/Robin/whoever else. You seemed to only take Roy out of that though, for whatever reason, even though he was used as an example.


Well those two are kind of bad examples given that Roy wasn't in Brawl, there's a gap between Melee and SSB4 to where we were accustomed to not having Roy at all, I really doubt him coming back with a new moveset would alienate anyone, they'd just be happy as hell to see him even make it again. Even so, there are clear alterations to Bowser and Pit, so you can't say he wouldn't declone Roy, even Ganondorf might finally get his day to shine now. I do agree that Robin would be an ideal choice, the both of you are taking me way out of context here, as I told Weegee up there, I was trying to defend such characters before he brought up Roy.

That said, Roy is in the unique position of having been a Smash veteran who was only lost due to time constraints, if Sakurai brings back Mewtwo because of fan demand, then it really wouldn't be far fetched to have Roy hitch along for the ride and gain a new moveset along the way.

Speaking of unfair comparisons, are we really associating Roy with Mewtwo? Just kidding (but seriously, they aren't really relate-able for a plethora of obvious reasons).

That being said, I do agree with that sentiment, although Brawl gave characters like Ganondorf and Falco slight adjustments to further de-clone them, one could argue that Roy would have to start at square one if he was included in Smash 4. However, the counter-argument is the initial argument (he could receive an entirely new move-set as he was missing from Brawl). So the reasoning is very circular and arbitrary, only Sakurai knows the "truth."

Again, we are using out-dated intent to speculate for and against Chrom and Roy. It isn't going to get us anywhere. A decade ago, he wanted a clone that was aesthetically diverse. Obviously, his intentions have altered and the purpose of Smash is slightly different. So we should just deal in objective fact (both have the potential to be unique as they both have the potential to be clones/similar).

 

[Dinoman96]

Y'know, I really wish people would stop cutting Lucas from their rosters and saying "Well, Mother doesn't need a 2nd character!".

When you think about it, Ness by himself...isn't really that great representation on the series. Mother is a series with inconsistent protagonists, settings, stories, etc, so in a way, I think each game can be looked at individually. Ness just represents Earthbound, which is only 1/3 of the series. By including Lucas, we expand Mother's representation to Mother 3, and now two of the most note worthy games in the series have a spot on the roster (Before you ask, no, I don't think we need to put Ninten in to represent Mother 1, especially when Ness is basically an expy of him). In other words, I wouldn't really look at Ness and Lucas as "The Mother reps", but rather Ness as "The Earthbound rep" and Lucas as "The Mother 3 rep". Make sense?

If you really care about how many characters a series should have, I think Star Fox is the series you should get mad at. It only has five original games, only just barely larger than the likes of Kid Icarus, Mother, and Pikmin, which all have three games, and yet has three characters. The only other series with three characters in Brawl's roster is Kirby, which has 20+ games. Despite this, both SF and Kirby have three characters. Not that I'd want Wolf or Falco to be removed, but still.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah, I added him almost solely out of personal bias.

Is Lucas more unique than Pokemon Trainer?

No. I would assert that Snake is much more unique and diverse than Squirtle or Ivysaur though. Lucas is about as imaginative is Squirtle. So I would honestly assess that as an adequate omission.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Speaking of unfair comparisons, are we really associating Roy with Mewtwo? Just kidding (but seriously, they aren't really relate-able for a plethora of obvious reasons).

That being said, I do agree with that sentiment, although Brawl gave characters like Ganondorf and Falco slight adjustments to further de-clone them, one could argue that Roy would have to start at square one if he was included in Smash 4. However, the counter-argument is the initial argument (he could receive an entirely new move-set as he was missing from Brawl). So the reasoning is very circular and arbitrary, only Sakurai knows the "truth."

Again, we are using out-dated intent to speculate for and against Chrom and Roy. It isn't going to get us anywhere. A decade ago, he wanted a clone that was aesthetically diverse. Obviously, his intentions have altered and the purpose of Smash is slightly different. So we should just deal in objective fact (both have the potential to be unique as they both have the potential to be clones/similar).

Well, they are comparable in that they were Melee vets who were planned for Brawl but ultimately got dropped because of So- I mean time constraints. They are also the two most demanded veterans who were planned for Brawl but ultimately got dropped, though Mewtwo is far higher than Roy, Roy is still the second most requested, while Dr. Mario really lags behind in last place. Though again, my initial point was trying to downplay Chrom and bring up characters like Robin and Tiki. Honestly I'd be happy to see Roy again but wouldn't care if he didn't come back, I'd prefer someone new, but I'd still prefer him over Chrom or Lucina.

Though most think we'll get three FE characters, what if we got four, Marth, Ike, a new guy, and Roy, that would be nice wouldn't it?

If you really care about how many characters a series should have, I think Star Fox is the series you should get mad at. It only has five original games, only just barely larger than the likes of Kid Icarus, Mother, and Pikmin, which all have three games, and yet has three characters. The only other series with three characters in Brawl's roster is Kirby, which has 20+ games. Despite this, both SF and Kirby have three characters. Not that I'd want Wolf or Falco to be removed, but still.

How many games a series has is irrelevant to how many characters they get in Smash, as Lucas can attest to. While I don't particularly care for a fourth Kirby character because they don't have much to pull from (besides Bandana Dee anyway), I do want to see four Star Fox characters because there's still Krystal left. Franchises shouldn't get more or less characters depending on their size, they should just continue adding to whatever ones actually have something left.

 

[Kenith]

Well, they are comparable in that they were Melee vets who were planned for Brawl but ultimately got dropped because of So- I mean time constraints. They are also the two most demanded veterans who were planned for Brawl but ultimately got dropped, though Mewtwo is far higher than Roy, Roy is still the second most requested, while Dr. Mario really lags behind in last place. Though again, my initial point was trying to downplay Chrom and bring up characters like Robin and Tiki. Honestly I'd be happy to see Roy again but wouldn't care if he didn't come back, I'd prefer someone new, but I'd still prefer him over Chrom or Lucina.

Liked for that one sentence.

 

[Dinoman96]

How many games a series has is irrelevant to how many characters they get in Smash, as Lucas can attest to. While I don't particularly care for a fourth Kirby character because they don't have much to pull from (besides Bandana Dee anyway), I do want to see four Star Fox characters because there's still Krystal left. Franchises shouldn't get more or less characters depending on their size, they should just continue adding to whatever ones actually have something left.

Meh, I don't believe the amount of characters a series gets should be 100% exact to how many games they have, that's just what a lot of people seem to believe. But even if I did, Lucas still would make sense to me.

At the very least, I could obviously see why a series like Kid Icarus would never get away with like, five characters on the roster.

 

[Starcutter]

HEY GUYS A GOOD ROSTER FOR ONCE! (also just don't mind quote and beedrill down there that's mostly to signify I made it)

I added palutena and shulk from my last roster, and I cut mona. everyone else stayed virtually the same. I didn't even update the artwork. rob, you lazy butt.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Here is my new roster!

Notes:

• Mii is off to the side because I feel he will be treated seperatrley from the rest of the characters, like he is in the Mario & Sonic Olympic Games.
• And the Newcomer Icon is a placeholder for Captain N (The Game Master).

 

[Kenith]

HEY GUYS A GOOD ROSTER FOR ONCE! (also just don't mind quote and beedrill down there that's mostly to signify I made it)

I added palutena and shulk from my last roster, and I cut mona. everyone else stayed virtually the same. I didn't even update the artwork. rob, you lazy butt.

I'm surprised there's no Kamek.

Yay for Tetra and Isaac, nay for Robin and Dixie.

I don't like the idea of having both Isaac and Robin. Seems kind of redundant. Also Isaac is Robin in Japan.

 

[Starcutter]

View attachment 8100

Here is my new roster!

Notes:​

• Mii is off to the side because I feel he will be treated seperatrley from the rest of the characters, like he is in the Mario & Sonic Olympic Games.
• And the Newcomer Icon is a placeholder for Captain N (The Game Master).

NO YOU DON'T BE STEALING MUH SPOTLIGHT I OnLY UPDARE ONCE A MONTH




*sobs in corner*

Spoiler

also what's up with the newcomer icon? you couldn't think of anybody?

 

[Autumn ♫]

View attachment 8100

Here is my new roster!

Notes:​

• Mii is off to the side because I feel he will be treated seperatrley from the rest of the characters, like he is in the Mario & Sonic Olympic Games.
• And the Newcomer Icon is a placeholder for Captain N (The Game Master).

It doesn't have Bidoof, you have failed me.

 

[Dinoman96]

Second Yoshi character

How could a thing possibly even exist?

I feel Yoshi, alongside series like Animal Crossing, Wario, F-Zero, and Pikmin, is a series that really is just sufficiently represented with its main character alone.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Spoiler

also what's up with the newcomer icon? you couldn't think of anybody?

• And the Newcomer Icon is a placeholder for Captain N (The Game Master).

 

[Morbi]

I'm surprised there's no Kamek.

Yay for Tetra and Isaac, nay for Robin and Dixie.

I don't like the idea of having both Isaac and Robin. Seems kind of redundant. Also Isaac is Robin in Japan.

The notion of Robin and Isaac doesn't seem as redundant as Robin, Isaac and Shulk though.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

It doesn't have Bidoof, you have failed me.

As much as I want Bidoof (I just did a HUGE update to the OP thanks to @PsychoIncarnate) he is criminally unlikely for Smash 4.

Maybe I could become popular on YouTube and raise awareness for Bidoof by Smash 5.

 

[Starcutter]

I'm surprised there's no Kamek.

Yay for Tetra and Isaac, nay for Robin and Dixie.

I don't like the idea of having both Isaac and Robin. Seems kind of redundant. Also Isaac is Robin in Japan.

A. Yoshi character is basically Kamek anyways. Shy Guy is deconfirmed, and I'm pretty sure they won't include babies because being politically correct.
B. I want robin to use more lightning and fire, but ALSO concentrate an a mechanic based on the actual moving around of units, since it's the tactitians job. Issac I want to have more earth and Djinn. also his giant psynergy hand. also, they could just call Robin "Tactician" it's my favorite name for him, as there's more than one tactician among the series.
C.I forgot to switch dixie to just "DK Rep" I had honestly forgot to switch it. my bad.

How could a thing possibly even exist?

I feel Yoshi, alongside series like Animal Crossing, Wario, F-Zero, and Pikmin, is a series that really is just sufficiently represented with its main character alone.

you don't know what you are getting in to, man. just leave it be.

The notion of Robin and Isaac doesn't seem as redundant as Robin, Isaac and Shulk though.

THEY ARE DIFFERENT, OKAY GUYS *sobs*

 

[UltimateWario]

-calls K. Rool irrelevant, includes Victini-

-complains about people cutting Lucas because Mother deserves more reps, doesn't think Metroid needs/deserves Ridley-

You're all hilarious.

 

[Kenith]

-calls K. Rool irrelevant, includes Victini-
-complains about people cutting Lucas because Mother deserves more reps, doesn't think Metroid needs Ridley-
You're all hilarious.

This is why I like you.

 

[Starcutter]

-calls K. Rool irrelevant, includes Victini-

-complains about people cutting Lucas because Mother deserves more reps, doesn't think Metroid needs/deserves Ridley-

You're all hilarious.

who is this?

 

[Kenith]

who is this?

He's referring to all of us.

We should all feel ashamed of ourselves.

 

[UltimateWario]

who is this?

ALL OF YOU. IT'S EVERYONE, EVEN ME.

/mnightshyamalan

He's referring to all of us.

We should all feel ashamed of ourselves.

Get out of my head, spaceman.

 

[JamesDNaux]

New roster time! Note: This isn't a replacement for my regular roster, nor is it a prediction roster. Just kind of a hypothetical thing.

Still no cuts, but some of my newcomer choices are different: Only K. Rool, no Dixie, fifth Zelda character (put whoever you want where the Salesman is), Tiki instead of Roy (making this 14 newcomers instead of 13), still has Ridley, Palutena, Krystal, Isaac, Takamaru, Lip, and Pac-Man. Still no Little Mac.

[collapse=] Bonus 100 character just for fun roster with obligatory RareWare section! But for this one, I need input from you guys.

I need five characters from unrepped series to fill in the middle, that's five different series, so only one main character each.
Two Pokemon reps, one from gen two, one from three, I really can't think of any of them that would fit well, but I'm sure the lot of you are creative enough.
Four third party reps, but only one per company, so no more Sonic characters and no Simon (sadly). Note: Geno counts as the Squeenix rep.
There's also the option of two reps per third party, in which case Geno would be dropped in favour of Simon and someone from Sega/Namco/Capcom/Ubisoft.
[/collapse]

 

[Starcutter]

ALL OF YOU. IT'S EVERYONE, EVEN ME.

hey, I'm funny, but not in a dumb way.









........alright, in a dumb way, but not all the time.


I like to think as myself as smart.

 

[Kenith]

New roster time! Note: This isn't a replacement for my regular roster, nor is it a prediction roster. Just kind of a hypothetical thing.

Still no cuts, but some of my newcomer choices are different: Only K. Rool, no Dixie, fifth Zelda character (put whoever you want where the Salesman is), Tiki instead of Roy (making this 14 newcomers instead of 13), still has Ridley, Palutena, Krystal, Isaac, Takamaru, Lip, and Pac-Man. Still no Little Mac.

[collapse=] Bonus 100 character just for fun roster with obligatory RareWare section! But for this one, I need input from you guys.

I need five characters from unrepped series to fill in the middle, that's five different series, so only one main character each.
Two Pokemon reps, one from gen two, one from three, I really can't think of any of them that would fit well, but I'm sure the lot of you are creative enough.
Four third party reps, but only one per company, so no more Sonic characters and no Simon (sadly). Note: Geno counts as the Squeenix rep.
There's also the option of two reps per third party, in which case Geno would be dropped in favour of Simon and someone from Sega/Namco/Capcom/Ubisoft.
[/collapse]

It's sad all the characters I want only fit on a 100 character roster.

 

[Autumn ♫]

If I may ask, how do you guys see Tiki as a playable character moveset wise?

 

[Morbi]

If I may ask, how do you guys see Tiki as a playable character moveset wise?

I envision Tiki to be like Ridley, only she isn't Ridley when she isn't a manakete.

It's sad all the characters I want only fit on a 100 character roster.

It would probably take Sakurai 100 characters until he finally got around to adding the main antagonist of Pokemon, so I am in the same boat.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I envision Tiki to be like Ridley, only she isn't Ridley when she isn't a manakete.

So she's a manakete the whole time?

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]