Character Discussion Thread

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Does anyone hate it when people say "Smash doesn't need anymore Pokemon/Mario characters."
Seriously, what's the problem with them. They say "They have too many reps"
You know why, because they are the two best selling franchises that Nintendo has and in video game history. That's why they have 6 (Pokemon) 7 (Mario unless you include Yoshi).

 

[A Distant Demon]

Does anyone hate it when people say "Smash doesn't need anymore Pokemon/Mario characters."
Seriously, what's the problem with them. They say "They have two many reps"
You know why, because they are the two best selling franchises that Nintendo has and in video game history. That's why they have 6 (Pokemon) 6 (Mario unless you include Yoshi).

Yes because i hate the reps things in general

But those 2 especially because they are so big that they could easily have plenty of characters that fit perfectly

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Does anyone hate it when people say "Smash doesn't need anymore Pokemon/Mario characters."
Seriously, what's the problem with them. They say "They have two many reps"
You know why, because they are the two best selling franchises that Nintendo has. That's why they have 6 (Pokemon) 6 (Mario unless you include Yoshi).

Here's my take on that.

I don't agree with the propaganda that Mario and Pokemon don't need more reps, but I highly doubt that they'd get more reps anyway.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Yes because i hate the reps things in general

But those 2 especially because they are so big that they could easily have plenty of characters that fit perfectly

Mario - Captain Toad (I don't really want anyone else but there's also Paper Mario)
Pokemon - Meowth (Team Rocket), Gardevoir (Lots of people like this Pokemon), Grovyle (Pokemon Mystery Dungeon), The other Pokemon that are people's favorites that they'll request even if it isn't possible.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Does anyone hate it when people say "Smash doesn't need anymore Pokemon/Mario characters."
Seriously, what's the problem with them. They say "They have too many reps"
You know why, because they are the two best selling franchises that Nintendo has and in video game history. That's why they have 6 (Pokemon) 6 (Mario unless you include Yoshi).

Mario has 7.

 

[StormC]

I remember someone saying they're fine with Fire Emblem getting more characters but not Mario. Which makes me wonder how objective folks can really be with these things.

Well judging from how Nintendo treats Megaman and looking at how Capcom has been treating Mega Man the reality of the situation is pretty clear. Nintendo does a better job, looks at Street Fighter X Tekken.

Nintendo should probably try their hand at making a Mega Man game first.

Regardless, there's way too many logistics involved for it to be as simple as Nintendo buys Mega Man and saves the day.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Mario has 7.

Ugh, Dr Mario. I hate him.

 

[TimidKitsune129]

Does anyone hate it when people say "Smash doesn't need anymore Pokemon/Mario characters."
Seriously, what's the problem with them. They say "They have two many reps"
You know why, because they are the two best selling franchises that Nintendo has and in video game history. That's why they have 6 (Pokemon) 6 (Mario unless you include Yoshi).

There's eight Mario characters actually.

(Yes, I count Yoshi as a Mario character).

I don't really care about "muh reps" either. I prefer having characters that are fun and unique rather than focusing on which series "needs" more characters.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

There's eight Mario characters actually.

(Yes, I count Yoshi as a Mario character).

I don't really care about "muh reps" either. I prefer having characters that are fun and unique rather than focusing on which series "needs" more characters.

I care about which characters are important to the series their from which is why I want Captain Toad/Toad and Meowth. The needs more characters kind of makes sense considering DK is Nintendo's 4th biggest franchise and they BARELY have any representation (2 characters, no assist trophies, only stages are jungle based). Same with Metroid only having Samus and Samus with less clothes on as playable characters.

 

[Kenith]

If we're judging characters as "reps" rather than characters than no, Yoshi is a Yoshi's Island "rep".

 

[Aetheri]

11...Just sayin...Diddy's a bit of a grey area here but that makes it at least 10 if you don't count Diddy...and if you want to be extra generous there's the Koopalings who have their own voices animations models and names...

 

[EmceeEspio]

I care about reps. No, no... Hear me out.

What I mean is that series should get repels proportional to other series based on how much more important they are to Nintendo.

Example: Donkey King and Metroid deserve more reps than Kid Icarus and MOTHER/Eartbound because they are a bigger part of Nintendo history.

I don't work in numbers, I work in how each series compares to one another. That's how reps SHOULD work. Not "Muh Fire Emblem series has too many characters because # is too many", but "Maybe series like Kirby or Starfox deserve more characters character because the less iconic Fire Emblem got new characters".

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

11...Just sayin...Diddy's a bit of a grey area here but that makes it at least 10 if you don't count Diddy...and if you want to be extra generous there's the Koopalings who have their own voices animations models and names...

Wario and DK have their own series that don't have to do with Mario anymore ie. WarioWare/Land and DKC
They just are in the same universe. Same with Yoshi.

 

[Aetheri]

Wario and DK have their own series that don't have to do with Mario anymore ie. WarioWare/Land and DKC
They just are in the same universe. Same with Yoshi.

They are still Mario characters that still appear in Mario games...people shouldn't ignore that...

 

[Kenith]

They are still Mario characters that still appear in Mario games...people shouldn't ignore that...

They don't represent those games though. Donkey Kong and Wario's moves, stages, etc. all pulled exclusively from the their own games rather than Mario spin-offs.
Wario Land, as an unfortunate result, has next to no content.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

They are still Mario characters that still appear in Mario games...people shouldn't ignore that...

If anything Mario is a Donkey Kong character. Diddy is a Donkey Kong character because he originated IN Donkey Kong Country not a Mario spinoff title.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Mario is a Donkey Kong character.

 

[aldelaro5]

Does anyone hate it when people say "Smash doesn't need anymore Pokemon/Mario characters."
Seriously, what's the problem with them. They say "They have too many reps"
You know why, because they are the two best selling franchises that Nintendo has and in video game history. That's why they have 6 (Pokemon) 7 (Mario unless you include Yoshi).

the thing is, there;s not much problems most of the time.

See, I keep hearing the infamous "we don;t need another mario rep" or the same without the word rep. While tbh with you, I coudl easilly apply this statement to before rosalina was even announced.

It's simple, the roster tries to expands. As it expands, the additions becomes less big of a deal. Like mario, the main series has less to add because the msot obvious was added already. You have to go deeper to find the additions, the roster expanded so much that the additions are less obvious.

Which gives the impression that such additions are worthless, but that;s not the truth either. I think almost no one had objections when rosalina was announced, but technically, she wasn't as needed as like mario (seriously, if ssb happens without mario, i wonder what the heck would have happened....),

So, basically, I think as the roster expands, people should be more open minded when it comes to additions. They are smaller, but still present and some definitely have interesting values.

....

like Paper Mario! (shameless plug is shameless ).

 

[StormC]

The thing is you can make an interesting fighter out of almost any character. It's a valid point when talking about Smash candidates, but it shouldn't be the only reason someone is considered. Importance to their own series is, well... important, and by extension that series' importance. I've always thought the ideal Smash candidate is someone who has a lot to offer in both representation and fighting style.

I'd feel better about five Fire Emblem characters if they weren't all humanoid sword users of similar builds and heights (with one using magic) three with blue hair, four with lord outfits, and two being cloned from another's moveset. It's not exactly a ringing endorsement of "characters should stand on their own" when there's so much overlap between the five different characters. Pokemon is a better example of a series with tons of characters that has a great variety of different fighters picked out for Smash.

I just get the impression that Fire Emblem fans are really defensive over their series without understanding that yeah, in a game where development resources and time are limited, a cult franchise getting catered to so specially might be kinda silly. I'm a huge fan of Uprising, but I'll be the first to say that Kid Icarus got more than was warranted.

But to go with the current discussion, Mario and Pokemon are video game titans with tons of options for feasible fighters in both uniqueness and representation. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to keep getting more.

 

[BKupa666]

My thoughts: the idea of "reps" is overall stupid. Example, no one is voting for "DK Rep," they just have personal reasons for not singling out specific characters as the ideal one(s) (because you can bet they wouldn't be pleased by, say, a Troff and Scoff duo character as "DK Rep"). And beyond that, characters and sales don't match up proportionately at all, and unless someone is a Mario and Pokemon fanatic, they wouldn't want them to.

That being said, if series sales/popularity are to be used as rough guidelines, they should be used consistently, rather than just with the Big Three, then Sakurai's favorites, then everyone else as leftovers. And if "unique characters" are to be used, they should come roughly equally from all series, again instead of the above flowchart. Smash doesn't do an overtly BAD job at this, but looking at certain series' treatment, it has a lot of room for improvement.

 

[aldelaro5]

Should I explain my definition of "repping":?

Warning, it;s very complex. Like, it;s a tottally different way to see stuff that is really ambiguous and kinda long to explain.....

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Donkey Kong is still originally a Mario character since Mario was still the protagonist of the Donkey Kong arcade game.

 

[StormC]

You could make pretty good arguments that Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong are all Mario characters, but Diddy is 100% a Donkey Kong character, straight up.

 

[Kenith]

You could make pretty good arguments that Yoshi, Wario and Donkey Kong are all Mario characters, but Diddy is 100% a Donkey Kong character, straight up.

The only reason I could think to argue that Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario are Mario characters is to say Mario has too many characters, which is really silly.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Donkey Kong is still originally a Mario character since Mario was still the protagonist of the Donkey Kong arcade game.

So...

Metroids are Samus characters?
Zelda is a Link character?

 

[StormC]

The only reason I could think to argue that Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario are Mario characters is to say Mario has too many characters, which is really silly.

Well, Yoshi and Wario originated in Super Mario games. Donkey Kong is blurrier; I'd say the arcade Donkey Kong is both a DK and a Mario game.

That being said, if series sales/popularity are to be used as rough guidelines, they should be used consistently, rather than just with the Big Three, then Sakurai's favorites, then everyone else as leftovers. And if "unique characters" are to be used, they should come roughly equally from all series, again instead of the above flowchart. Smash doesn't do an overtly BAD job at this, but looking at certain series' treatment, it has a lot of room for improvement.

This is generally my thoughts on the matter. Sales, popularity and impact are a good starting point, but nothing more. Kirby getting Dedede and Meta Knight and Donkey Kong only getting Diddy in Brawl isn't something to cry about as they aren't that far apart and Metroid doesn't have enough feasible character options to fill out its roster to 5 or so. It's only when you get to Fire Emblem, a series that has never had mainstream success until Awakening, having three unique characters (which is fine), a clone, and a semi-clone as DLC, with people wanting more do I feel things have really gotten out of hand.

"DK rep" really just means "K. Rool or Dixie and maybe Cranky." All three are options for the next Donkey Kong character, though you have three guesses for which one is the most wanted, and the first two don't count.

 

[PrettyIvyPearls22]

My main concern with Nintendo buying the franchises of another company is that they have enough trouble making games for some of their own franchises (Advance Wars, F-Zero, Metroid, etc.) - how would they be able to make games for so many others?

Thank You! Someone who agree with me on this. Should Nintendo really buy these companies just because people aren't satisified with some of these franchises? No, because I hate to say it like this, but Nintendo can barely revive some of their other popular franchises that hasn't gotten good enough attention in years. I think they can only really help out these companies that are in a rut by making deals with them.

 

[Pakky]

can over representation be a thing? because to me when you have over 10 (not talking about Wario or Yoshi because they are their own characters now with games that are far different from the main series )characters from one series in something that is supposed to be celebration of nintendo and associates things start to get silly. Pokemon is a different matter but people don't get so I'll stop talking about it

 

[StormC]

can over representation be a thing? because to me when you have over 10 (not talking about Wario or Yoshi because they are their own characters now with games that are far different from the main series )characters from one series in something that is supposed to be celebration of nintendo and associates things start to get silly.

...what series has over 10 characters?

 

[Pakky]

...what series has over 10 characters?

None, hypothetical scenario. Basically, how much is too much?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

None, hypothetical scenario. Basically, how much is too much?

It depends on how much other franchises have

 

[StormC]

None, hypothetical scenario. Basically, how much is too much?

If Mario or Pokemon went over 10 yeah, that would be pretty over-the-top. But @ Cutie Gwen makes a good point about how it compares to other franchises; 5mash could easily have 70-75 characters, and eventually oh god there's going to be so many god damn characters in the next Smash.

 

[Pakky]

It depends on how much other franchises have

Wha?...

If Mario or Pokemon went over 10 yeah, that would be pretty over-the-top. But @ Cutie Gwen makes a good point about how it compares to other franchises; 5mash could easily have 70-75 characters, and eventually oh god there's going to be so many god damn characters in the next Smash.

True but not every franchise has 3 let alone 5 good characters available to balance out that much bulk.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wha?...

true but not every franchise has 3 let alone 5 characters availabl to balance out that much bulk.

Imagine if Pokemon had 15 characters. Does that sound like too much? Now imagine if every other franchise had about 13 characters alongside these 15. Doesn't seem like much anymore

 

[StormC]

True but not every franchise has 3 let alone 5 good characters available to balance out that much bulk.

Like I said with Metroid, not every franchise has enough feasible character options to reach that quota, and that's fine. It changes, too. When Brawl came out, Dedede and Meta Knight were the only characters really needed for the Kirby roster. Come Smash 4/DLC though, Bandana Dee has turned into quite the upstart and has joined the main cast as the fourth major character.

 

[Pakky]

Imagine if Pokemon had 15 characters. Does that sound like too much? Now imagine if every other franchise had about 13 characters alongside these 15. Doesn't seem like much anymore

That is an impossible scenario though.

take F-zero for example and how Sakurai treats characters that are remotely similar

You're gonna end up with

Fat falcon
faster falcon
light falcon
weak falcon

And for series that barely have two characters like Yoshi, what do you do?

Like I said with Metroid, not every franchise has enough feasible character options to reach that quota, and that's fine. It changes, too. When Brawl came out, Dedede and Meta Knight were the only characters really needed for the Kirby roster. Come Smash 4/DLC though, Bandana Dee has turned into quite the upstart and has joined the main cast as the fourth major character.

Okay so what's all this about "It depends on how many character each series has? Other than Pokemon and Mario no other series has an abundance of unique and or important characters that could be added without being variants of characters that already exist. When you do that you run into a street fighter type problem in which half the roster are just variants of Ryu.

 

[StormC]

Okay so what's all this about "It depends on how many character each series has? Other than Pokemon and Mario no other series has an abundance of unique and or important characters that could be added without being variants of characters that already exist.

Well, it isn't just characters from other series, but new series, too.

 

[Pakky]

Well, it isn't just characters from other series, but new series, too.

That's also very true, but that amount of characters present does not soften the blow of the over representation.

For example look at a pie chart

Spoiler

just because there are multiple categories doesn't take away from the fact that almost half of the chart is taken over by one category.

But eh, whateves this is probably nonsensical to most of you.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes, Mario is the flagship series, but other series (both the ones featured in Smash and the ones that are not) should be considered before the Mario series gets more than it already has.

Only when there is no reasonable alternative should Smash dig back into the Mario pile.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That's also very true, but that amount of characters present does not soften the blow of the over representation.

For example look at a pie chart

Spoiler

just because there are multiple categories doesn't take away from the fact that almost half of the chart is taken over by one category.

But eh, whateves this is probably nonsensical to most of you.

Considering how this is implying that only 1 franchise has a stupidly large potential roster, this is a nono

That is an impossible scenario though.

take F-zero for example and how Sakurai treats characters that are remotely similar

You're gonna end up with

Fat falcon
faster falcon
light falcon
weak falcon

And for series that barely have two characters like Yoshi, what do you do?

Okay so what's all this about "It depends on how many character each series has? Other than Pokemon and Mario no other series has an abundance of unique and or important characters that could be added without being variants of characters that already exist. When you do that you run into a street fighter type problem in which half the roster are just variants of Ryu.

Goro has a sword, Jody Summers has dem fiiiine legs, pretty sure some characters use guns. It's not as impossible as you say. You are also implying that we simply don't have enough moveset potential. Considering how many unique sword wielders we have and characters who have no moveset potential like Falcon and DHD, it's also a bad argument. Overrepresentation depends on how much other franchises have. One can argue DK is underrepresented as it's got 2 characters and no AT. One CAN'T argue about Kirby being overrepresented, as it's got 3 characters, which is kind of average for such a big franchise