Character Discussion Thread

[Burruni]

I really want to hear why you don't expect high-demand characters with bigger credentials like...

isaac (golden sun)
Bandana Dee (Kirby)
RAYMAN
Inkling (Splatoon)

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

Seriously though.

We can't/shouldn't have Ganon because we have Ganondorf?

They'd share as much as does with her Ninja self
with his Bad Self (oh puns).

They's both big and heavy, yes.

But does and play anywhere near the same?

Seriously, Ganon is the more abundantly present and arguably more iconic form of the Gerudo King who has been in double the damn games and has been on an upswing of usage (Nintendo Land's Attraction, Link Between Worlds) while hasn't been touched by Nintendo since Twilight Princess for the series.

And it certainly isn't like the series he comes from has gotten by with having multiple forms of the same character before.

Well technically, Link, Toon Link, and Young Link are all different Links.
That design of Zelda is TP
I don't know if that's the scrapped TP Sheik design.
Ganondorf is the same character as Ganon since they are incarnations of each other


Than again ****ing Dr Mario.

Spoiler

this is a joke

 

[Wintropy]

Honestly, the only reason I wouldn't have considered Ganon before is because...

I...don't really care for Ganon?

I have no reason to think he isn't a viable choice.

I just honestly never considered it.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I really want to hear why you don't expect high-demand characters with bigger credentials like...

isaac (golden sun)
Bandana Dee (Kirby)
RAYMAN
Inkling (Splatoon)

*cough cough Wolf*

 

[Burruni]

*cough cough Wolf*

I said Like
not Limited To

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I said Like
not Limited To

When did you say that...

 

[Burruni]

Well technically, Link, Toon Link, and Young Link are all different Links.
That design of Zelda is TP
I don't know if that's the scrapped TP Sheik design.
Ganondorf is the same character as Ganon since they are incarnations of each other


Than again ****ing Dr Mario.

Spoiler

this is a joke

1) It is the scrapped TP Sheik design
2) Same. Exact. Person. 7 years apart. At least with Ganondorf and "Wizpig" Ganon you have one die to incarnate into the other.
3) There has never been a game in which Ganondorf and the normal big blue bacony Lord of Porkness have appeared. Ganondorf transforms into the primal, boarlike Beast Ganon in both Twilight Princess and Hyrule Warriors, and of course in Ocarina of Time when he became the twinswordsman "Ganon" with some weird lizardlike tail.
4) CLEARLY since this is TP timeline Ganondorf, he is in a totally different timeline as the Ganon who appears in LTTP/Oracles/Awakening/Zelda I&II/LBW

And what's the point? They're two incredibly visually distinct characters that would have movesets that may share certain basic moves like d-air (which would make as close to ) but would be incredibly different in attacks with separated names.

 

[Burruni]

When did you say that...

I really want to hear why you don't expect high-demand characters with bigger credentials like...

I listed some examples. I could've tossed out Wolf, Krystal, Paper Mario, Chorus Kids, Ray, hell even Shantae.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

1) It is the scrapped TP Sheik design
2) Same. Exact. Person. 7 years apart. At least with Ganondorf and "Wizpig" Ganon you have one die to incarnate into the other.
3) There has never been a game in which Ganondorf and the normal big blue bacony Lord of Porkness have appeared. Ganondorf transforms into the primal, boarlike Beast Ganon in both Twilight Princess and Hyrule Warriors, and of course in Ocarina of Time when he became the twinswordsman "Ganon" with some weird lizardlike tail.
4) CLEARLY since this is TP timeline Ganondorf, he is in a totally different timeline as the Ganon who appears in LTTP/Oracles/Awakening/Zelda I&II/LBW

And what's the point? They're two incredibly visually distinct characters that would have movesets that may share certain basic moves like d-air (which would make as close to ) but would be incredibly different in attacks with separated names.

It was a joke dude. That's TP Link, Young Link is from OoT.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I don't think he's a troll guys. Not everyone knows what goes into selecting a Smash character and how roster building works. He probably just wants to see his favorite characters added.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm gonna add onto my thoughts from a moment ago:

The only reservation I have with Ganon is really that I'm not a fan of his design. I think the blue skin looks silly, and the red armour with the horns and spikes is obnoxious. I also think his personality isn't quite as fleshed out as his human form's, though that may be because he's either depicted as a savage beast (Oracles, Ocarina of Time) or appeared in games where character development wasn't really a thing (every game prior to Ocarina of Time).

That said, those are superficial concerns at most. As a newcomer, he doesn't really have any reasons not to appear, save that he has tepid demand at best. The fact that Sakurai seems to consider every Ganon a different Ganon just helps the case, as it definitely wouldn't clash with Ganondorf's Final Smash - which, to be honest, I would have thought is a rather absurd argument, akin to "Palutena can't be a character because she's already a statue".

Really, the only valid reason I have for not actively supporting Ganon is that I've never liked him as much as Ganondorf, who happens to be one of my favourite villains in any media. He has all the credentials to be an interesting character, though I have to ask: why is it only now that demand for him has become in any way vocal?

 

[Burruni]

It was a joke dude. That's TP Link, Young Link is from OoT.

It was OoT Link when OoT Young Link was added. (And before you argue it's MM Young Link, he has the Deku Shield which isn't in that game and has the 7 Years event).
That was moreso my point.
There's nothing that stops Ganon from happening because Ganondorf existing on the roster.

Edit:

I'm gonna add onto my thoughts from a moment ago:

The only reservation I have with Ganon is really that I'm not a fan of his design. I think the blue skin looks silly, and the red armour with the horns and spikes is obnoxious. I also think his personality isn't quite as fleshed out as his human form's, though that may be because he's either depicted as a savage beast (Oracles, Ocarina of Time) or appeared in games where character development wasn't really a thing (every game prior to Ocarina of Time).

That said, those are superficial concerns at most. As a newcomer, he doesn't really have any reasons not to appear, save that he has tepid demand at best. The fact that Sakurai seems to consider every Ganon a different Ganon just helps the case, as it definitely wouldn't clash with Ganondorf's Final Smash - which, to be honest, I would have thought is a rather absurd argument, akin to "Palutena can't be a character because she's already a statue".

Really, the only valid reason I have for not actively supporting Ganon is that I've never liked him as much as Ganondorf, who happens to be one of my favourite villains in any media. He has all the credentials to be an interesting character, though I have to ask: why is it only now that demand for him has become in any way vocal?

I didn't really support him because of how little he had been used as of late (since Ganondorf appeared, Ganon as a "WizPig" appeared in FSA and... NintendoLand, not really that much in his series. With Link Between Worlds starting to bring him back, I've realised how badly he should be in.
Hell, I wasn't really aware of how well K. Rool fit until like a month before Smash 4 came out.

Double Edit: I was also REALLY tunnel visioned about Leaks. By the time I gave up on Gematsu, like a month later we got the ESRB Leak. I got really honed in on my hopes for Bandana Dee and Marshal (Rhythm Heaven)

 

[Kenith]

Because to me it kinda feels like no accurate form of Ganon is in Smash, I feel that "WizPig" is, objectively the best newcomer for Zelda, and one of the best in general.
He's a central part of the series that isn't well represented at all, which is really sad. You could classify him as a character to represent A Link to the Past, which I think is very warranted.

On the topic of Zelda characters, it annoys me when people say Toon Link should get a new moveset because all of the items he uses in Smash are the most important items in The Wind Waker anyway; you use Bombs, Boomerangs, Arrows, and the Hookshot far more than anything else in that game.

If anything, Twilight Princess Link warrants different item selections more, which would honestly be okay by me. Bomb Arrows and the Ball and Chain over the Bow and Bombs would be very welcome and would fit adult Link's power over speed design.

 

[Burruni]

Because to me it kinda feels like no accurate form of Ganon is in Smash, I feel that "WizPig" is, objectively the best newcomer for Zelda, and one of the best in general.
He's a central part of the series that isn't well represented at all, which is really sad. You could classify him as a character to represent A Link to the Past, which I think is very warranted.

On the topic of Zelda characters, it annoys me when people say Toon Link should get a new moveset because all of the items he uses in Smash are the most important items in The Wind Waker anyway; you use Bombs, Boomerangs, Arrows, and the Hookshot far more than anything else in that game.

If anything, Twilight Princess Link warrants different item selections more, which would honestly be okay by me. Bomb Arrows and the Ball and Chain over the Bow and Bombs would be very welcome and would fit adult Link's power over speed design.

I just wish T-Link got a better recovery using the Deku Leaf.
Normal Link? Bomb Arrows would be a good "upgrade" to his Neutral B but I feel like the down B should be something that's a little more universal to the series than the Ball & Chain if it'd be changed. Like "Bomblings" or Bombchus acting like 's Mechakoopas.

Edit: In hindsight, moving bomb types really were just in OoT, MM, & TP. SS if you count bowling them.
Still.. it feels like something could be done.

 

[StormC]

I used to think Ganon was a silly idea but during the ballot period I've done a complete 180 on him. I think when you actually sit down and think about what he has to offer, as both a Zelda newcomer and a fighter in general, it's hard to deny how great he'd be as a choice.

I don't feverishly want him, but he's my most wanted newcomer after K. Rool for sure.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I want Wizpig Ganon because playing as him would be another way to play as my favorite Zelda character who is not a cheap imitation that's essentially comic relief.

 

[Kenith]

I just wish T-Link got a better recovery using the Deku Leaf.
Normal Link? Bomb Arrows would be a good "upgrade" to his Neutral B but I feel like the down B should be something that's a little more universal to the series than the Ball & Chain if it'd be changed. Like "Bomblings" or Bombchus acting like 's Mechakoopas.

Twilight Princess Link doesn't use Bombchus and Bomblings are only an optional item in TP while the Ball and Chain is required and is very useful in the game.
Also, a point in the Ball and Chain's favor is...it's ****ing cool.
coincidentally it's found in the ice dungeon

Actually, now that I think about it, Link exclusively using Twilight Princess items in his moveset would be cool.
Neutral B is Bomb Arrows, arrows that explode on contact, but explode on you if you hold them too long.
Side B is Gale Boomerang, the same.
Up B is Spinner, which has poor vertical distance but hits many times and goes far horizontally.
Down B is Ball and Chain. Hold the button to ready it then toss it for massive damage. Pressing the button again pulls it back to hit twice.

Again it fits Link's focus on power, but lacking recovery.

Also it'd be cool to see some of the hidden skills incorporated. Like the Helm Splitter, Mortal Draw, Finishing Blow, and Jump Strike.

 

[Burruni]

I used to think Ganon was a silly idea but during the ballot period I've done a complete 180 on him. I think when you actually sit down and think about what he has to offer, as both a Zelda newcomer and a fighter in general, it's hard to deny how great he'd be as a choice.

I don't feverishly want him, but he's my most wanted newcomer after K. Rool for sure.

This is kinda what happened to me.

Once you actually look down at it, he's the best (credentially) character for Zelda to get.

I just wish he got Impa's popularity....

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

He has all the credentials to be an interesting character, though I have to ask: why is it only now that demand for him has become in any way vocal?

I think a large part of the reason is that a lot of people have finally come to accept that human Ganondorf in Smash will always remain a Captain Falcon (half-) clone, whether they like it or not.

In Melee, many were dumbfounded that Ganondorf was, of all things, a clone of Captain Falcon instead of being his own character. This especially stood out because he was (and remains) the ONLY clone of a character from a different series. When people heard that he was a last-minute inclusion, some people assumed that in the next Smash he'd become more unique to counteract his Melee incarnation.

Come Brawl and they were...kinda right, kinda not. He DID become more unique, but not to the extent that he was no longer related in any way to Captain Falcon in moveset terms. Plenty of people got frustrated, which I can understand, but this split Ganondorf's future in two--this was either a very, VERY slow decloning process to make players naturally adjust to a unique Ganondorf in the next game, or this was as far as Sakurai was taking it with differentiating him, since he might not have wanted to alienate any current fans of Ganondorf's current Captain Falcon-derived moveset that came about from his last-minute inplementation. Many of Ganondorf's fans were not fond of the latter option, so they held onto the very, VERY slim chance that the former would be what happened.

And now, with Smash 4 out, we can finally confirm the latter is what happened. While many Ganondorf fans were heartbroken, having had their favored character derive much of his abilities from Captain Falcon instead of mostly using his own abilities from Zelda games for 3 entries straight, it gave many of them a sense of closure on the whole ordeal. No need to hope for the possibility of a changed Ganondorf since it's been proven beyond a doubt that it will never happen no matter what, right?

This is where Ganon comes in. Pig Ganon I mean.

If Ganondorf fans won't see a version of his HUMAN form be unique, then they can hope that his more monstrous form can be a fresh, interesting character instead. This wouldn't affect Falcondorf's current fans, and it would finally service those who loved his incarnations from Zelda games proper. So his current (unfortunately tepid) demand, I think, correlates to many Smash fans getting over the grief of the confirmation of never having a unique human Ganondorf. Might as well look to new horizons and move on in new ways, right?

Personally if he were in Smash I'd like Ganon to mostly take inspiration from his A Link to the Past and Four Swords Adventures incarnations, with a bit of Yuga Ganon from A Link Between Worlds sprinkled in. A spear, fire bats, and eerie teleportation sounds really cool to me.

 

[StormC]

I could see Ganon becoming a more popular choice in 5mash speculation, especially if he appears again in a prominent role.

 

[Burruni]

I could see Ganon becoming a more popular choice in 5mash speculation, especially if he appears again in a prominent role.

With him being brought back for NintendoLand's attraction and Link Between Worlds... I really hope that we have full 3D glory piggy for Z-U.

 

[Kenith]

Kinda off topic but relevant to Ganondorf...
Why is he so ugly in Smash 4? He's got this weird fish mouth thing going on, his colors are somehow even more dull than in Brawl, and his hair is poorly modelled compared to the rest of him (on Wii U).
I know he's not supposed to be super handsome, but he looks kinda gross and doofy.

 

[Zoljinx]

And I want:
Goomba (Mario)
Bibarel (Pokemon)
James McCloud (from F-Zero, NOT fox's dad)
Knuckles (Sonic)
only one of these characters i actually see as actually being sensible/possible, i'll let you guys decide which one i'm talking about.

the thing is. the choices that i listed are "dream" choices, never in my wildest imagination would i expect characters like this to actually become DLC. which is why i only voice my opinion on characters that both me and other people see as likely/possible, otherwise i'd just become a laughing stock, but i would still be happy with characters i secretly want in my heart.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Kinda off topic but relevant to Ganondorf...
Why is he so ugly in Smash 4? He's got this weird fish mouth thing going on, his colors are somehow even more dull than in Brawl, and his hair is poorly modelled compared to the rest of him (on Wii U).
I know he's not supposed to be super handsome, but he looks kinda gross and doofy.

I dunno if this is true but it might be that they just rigged his facial animations to Captain Falcon's, which were sillier this time, so it looks off on Ganondorf considering they didn't give him custom facial animations as a result. It might be why his up taunt face is so awkward and joke bait-y.

As for his skin, it's probably supposed to look like a pale mix of green and brown anyway, though his hair being improperly modeled is kind of a let down.

Edit: at least his eyes look alright to me. I think they're bigger and it's nice to see such a strong shade of red in his irises.

 

[MoveMan1]

> expecting Sakurai to give Ganondorf dignity in any form
> Expecting Ganon to be any other than a Bowser clone

 

[Kenith]

It seems weird that they'd cut corners by rigging Captain Falcon's expressions to Ganondorf, but it would explain it.
I think Ganondorf was a rushed character.
The quality of his model and the fact he has no changes from Brawl - whatsoever - reinforce this theory for me.

 

[StormC]

The quality of his model and the fact he has no changes from Brawl - whatsoever - reinforce this theory for me.

He has a lot of changes from Brawl - for one, Warlock Punch has super armor.

 

[Kenith]

He has a lot of changes from Brawl - for one, Warlock Punch has super armor.

I meant the actual moves. They are all the same.
Although I believe some of the animations are altered. But he still has the same moveset.

 

[StormC]

Well, anyway, for reference: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Ganondorf_(SSB4)#Changes_from_Brawl

 

[Burruni]

> expecting Sakurai to give Ganondorf dignity in any form
> Expecting Ganon to be any other than a Bowser clone

Give me a single valid reason why he would be a Bowser clone.
Because people claim the same thing out of K. Rool for no reason.
At the time Ganondorf was made into the first cross-series clone, his fight consisted of punching down into the ground and flinging a few balls of light and even then was because he was horribly last-minute.

Ganon has a long-established arsenal of moves.

 

[Kenith]

Okay, so no, Ganondorf's moveset is exactly the same and the only new animation is Dark Dive. I stand by my theory.

Anyway, on to another character! I have actually warmed up to the idea of Impa but only as a semi-clone of Sheik. Mainly because, as she is somewhat of a clean slate like Sheik, she could use some original, but ninja inspired, moves in her moveset.

First, her Smash attacks. Sheik has a fancy dagger but never uses it. It would cool if Impa had two magic knives and used them both her Smash attacks. Ergo, her forward smash is a two-hit combo, up smash is a basically the same but she swipes with the knives, and maybe a couple other moves.

Also, I think a cool idea is for her up special to create a smoke screen when used on the ground, possibly in exchange for some kill power. It could have the effect of hiding Impa, but not her opponents, fitting with the theme of shadows and stealth. It would not last long, otherwise it would be pretty broken and annoying.

Side special and down special can honestly be completely unique for all I care. I don't like either move. Suggestion for side special is a reflective magic barrier like the one used in Skyward Sword.

I have no idea what her Final Smash would be. Probably something similar to Greninja's "Maximum Ninja", which, honestly, if done right would be pretty cool.

Overall I would think Impa is a slower but more magic based semi-clone of Sheik, with a few other differences (like the daggers).

 

[Burruni]

Okay, so no, Ganondorf's moveset is exactly the same and the only new animation is Dark Dive. I stand by my theory.

Anyway, on to another character! I have actually warmed up to the idea of Impa but only as a semi-clone of Sheik. Mainly because, as she is somewhat of a clean slate like Sheik, she could use some original, but ninja inspired, moves in her moveset.

First, her Smash attacks. Sheik has a fancy dagger but never uses it. It would cool if Impa had two magic knives and used them both her Smash attacks. Ergo, her forward smash is a two-hit combo, up smash is a basically the same but she swipes with the knives, and maybe a couple other moves.

Also, I think a cool idea is for her up special to create a smoke screen when used on the ground, possibly in exchange for some kill power. It could have the effect of hiding Impa, but not her opponents, fitting with the theme of shadows and stealth. It would not last long, otherwise it would be pretty broken and annoying.

Side special and down special can honestly be completely unique for all I care. I don't like either move. Suggestion for side special is a reflective magic barrier like the one used in Skyward Sword.

I have no idea what her Final Smash would be. Probably something similar to Greninja's "Maximum Ninja", which, honestly, if done right would be pretty cool.

Overall I would think Impa is a slower but more magic based semi-clone of Sheik, with a few other differences (like the daggers).

If we got Ganon.
And Impa had a major active role in more than ONE Zelda game
I'd be far more accepting of her.

 

[Swampertrulz]

Masahiro Sakurai Said:
"What Not Chrom?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite Popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina and I will elaborate on my reasoning."
"I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means. At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another PLAIN-OLD-SWORD-WIELDER like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics."
"Plain old Sword wielder"? Sakurai-San really?

 

[Kenith]

If we got Ganon.
And Impa had a major active role in more than ONE Zelda game
I'd be far more accepting of her.

Well see, that's the thing.
The only reason I'm okay with her as a semi-clone is because in the long run I don't really see her as a threat to future/better additions.

 

[Ura]

Masahiro Sakurai Said:
"What Not Chrom?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite Popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina and I will elaborate on my reasoning."
"I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means. At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another PLAIN-OLD-SWORD-WIELDER like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics."
"Plain old Sword wielder"? Sakurai-San really?

It's simple.

was a much better choice than Chrom because of his uniqueness as a fighter (not being a pure sword fighter) and was a very easy to make clone that took no dev time from other characters.

And before you bring up , he's a veteran and what Sakurai said pertained to newcomers. Not to mention he had a previous established playstyle that was different from Marth along with having unique fire properties.

 

[Swampertrulz]

It's simple.

was a much better choice than Chrom because of his uniqueness as a fighter (not being a pure sword fighter) and was a very easy to make clone that took no dev time from other characters.

And before you bring up , he's a veteran and what Sakurai said pertained to newcomers. Not to mention he had a previous established playstyle that was different from Marth along with having unique fire properties.

Ok den.

 

[Ura]

It's true tho

 

[Kenith]

I think it'd be cool if they further differentiated the four sword-wielding Fire Emblem characters and gave all of them other Fire Emblem characters as alts.
Roy is exactly how I expected Chrom would play with a bit more fire, so having Chrom as his alt would be fine by me. Maybe reskin his fire to be a different color, maybe blue like Ike.

 

[Deleted member]

was a very easy to make clone that took no dev time from other characters.

You forgot a very important detail; Lucina wasn't initially planned as a clone. She was supposed to be a specialized costume for Marth.
She was made separate from Marth when Sakurai realized that the alternate characteristics that were applied to the Lucina costume could potentially affect match outcomes.

 

[Aetheri]

And I want:
Goomba (Mario)
Bibarel (Pokemon)
James McCloud (from F-Zero, NOT fox's dad)
Knuckles (Sonic)
only one of these characters i actually see as actually being sensible/possible, i'll let you guys decide which one i'm talking about.

the thing is. the choices that i listed are "dream" choices, never in my wildest imagination would i expect characters like this to actually become DLC. which is why i only voice my opinion on characters that both me and other people see as likely/possible, otherwise i'd just become a laughing stock, but i would still be happy with characters i secretly want in my heart.

Obviously Bibarel...we need a pokemon to represent the unfortunate but essential HM Slaves...