• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

AncientTobacco

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,543
Location
Crocodile Isle
After seeing Ryu and how technical he is (I mean seriously that's almost too much) I can't help but to think that Sakurai was lying about Ridley.
I don't see how those things are connected?

If anything, all the unique inputs and combo stuff Ryu got lends credit to what Sakurai said about "Providing accurate portrayals of characters", which he felt wasn't possible with Ridley were he to be made playable.
 

PushDustIn

Salt Lord
BRoomer
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
4,767
Location
Japan
NNID
PushDustIn
3DS FC
3695-0954-3750
Tbh, I just can;t agree with how much I underestimated Sakurai in the past.

I never thought he would be THAT ambitious on the repping, I never thought he would aim for so much characters and lastly, I never thought he would be much ambitious on the dlc.

I just don;t think only 2 DLC left is likely. The only way is to have them all post ballot, but why they know they will put 2 already if there;s a ballot in the first place? They don;t even know the results yet, it should make sense to wait the result, THEN decide how much and who. Unless the ballot was MORE focused on the future game than the current one....which I highly doubt (it will matter, but currently, smash 4 is the latest, any further game doesn;t exist\).

As for the design constraints, i again don;t want to underestimate Sakurai so I'm just going to say that they might find a way to work this out even if it could require more effort, I just think it's possible.

Considering the time they would put on DLC, I expect AT LEAST one dlc revealed before ballot, but even if only one happens, I just doubt the ballot was only for one character and again, only one sounds arbitrary to decide it before.

Plus, these slots were added when the ballot began, not before, they might just check the ballot and change things. For me, I just don;t expect them to already decide the amount.

I however also don;t know what to expect in terms of numbers, it really depends on the ballot for me. After, we'll see, but I don't think it would have been decided already.
I disagree. Even if they don't know who they will pick for the ballot, they have an idea of how many characters they can make. Making video games a business. They have to balance the needs of the development staff, customers, and the profit of the company. I think we will are approaching the natural end point of Smash DLC soon. Sakurai himself said not to expect a ton of additional stages, which I consider a big hint that the course for the rest of the DLC development has already been decided. I'm sure the characters that are going to win the ballot are known by now. Having it open to October is to ensure they can collect more data for the next game, in my opinion. As I said in my article, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not expecting miracles anymore (And I was one of the few people that predicted that Ryu/Roy/Lucas would all be released during E3).
 
Last edited:

PrettyIvyPearls22

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
781
Location
Houston, Texas
After seeing Ryu and how technical he is (I mean seriously that's almost too much) I can't help but to think that Sakurai was lying about Ridley.
We're still bringing up Ridley? Also, I don't see how you compare Ridley to Ryu and Street Fighter like seriously what's the comparison? Cause I'll admit this got me so confused and lost in a minute.
 

Kamui Nohr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
212
Location
Not in your castle.
Would any of you buy costume packs? Like real costumes, not colors or anything like that.
Yeah, I'd be down for a summer wear costume pack :4shulk:. The only one costume that should been there from the start is

I don't even like Rosalina that much, and that's saying something.
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
I don't see how those things are connected?

If anything, all the unique inputs and combo stuff Ryu got lends credit to what Sakurai said about "Providing accurate portrayals of characters", which he felt wasn't possible with Ridley were he to be made playable.
We're still bringing up Ridley? Also, I don't see how you compare Ridley to Ryu and Street Fighter like seriously what's the comparison? Cause I'll admit this got me so confused and lost in a minute.
Which is an excuse, because if one can alter inputs and give attacks variations of damage based on those inputs, and all that jazz ,for one character mind you. One can figure out how to manage the length of a character's tail and how to manage flight. This situation is akin to someone being able to recite Shakespeare but has difficulty saying their own name. It doesn't add up. As as for the size issues *looks at all the pokemon and Olimar, that shipped sailed out of the realm of being an excuse a long time ago.

It all boils down to if he could do this "the complexity of Ryu" which comes off, at least to me as being significantly harder then why couldn't he "figure out a way to make Ridley work" which by comparison seems significantly easier.


"Muh gender representation"

- Said every Tumblroid ever.
I watched a few videos on that "culture" and looked around, I have to say, those people are filth. I mean that deeply.
 
Last edited:

Ivander

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,788
Would any of you buy costume packs? Like real costumes, not colors or anything like that.
I'm still waiting for Wrecking Crew Mario & Luigi and Balloon Fighter Villager. Also, Priam for Ike.

But I'd be down for Character Costumes. Or even a Palette/Color Editor.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,082
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Making video games a business. They have to balance the needs of the development staff, customers, and the profit of the company.
Here's the thing though. It's a smash game. They could probably throw Dry Bones up there as DLC and have it sell well if it had a unique gimmick. But they are not going to do that, they are going to add characters that are popular of semi-popular, or cater to an audience that hasn't been given anything yet. I'm no expert but as far as money goes I think they are fine.
I'm sure the characters that are going to win the ballot are known by now. Having it open to October is to ensure they can collect more data for the next game.
Why? Why would you end a ballot prematurely? It's not smart. You don't know what could happen in the next few months. someone could shoot up In popularity and break first place by a mile. And then you would be stuck with angry fans that didn't get their favorite character.
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,724
Location
Canada, Quebec (or Rogeuport if you want)
NNID
aldelaro5
3DS FC
3050-7721-6617
Here's the thing though. It's a smash game. They could probably throw Dry Bones up there as DLC and have it sell well if it had a unique gimmick. But they are not going to do that, they are going to add characters that are popular of semi-popular, or cater to an audience that hasn't been given anything yet. I'm no expert but as far as money goes I think they are fine.

Why? Why would you end a ballot prematurely? It's not smart. You don't know what could happen in the next few months. someone could shoot up In popularity and break first place by a mile. And then you would be stuck with angry fans that didn't get their favorite character.
I get his points....and it actually makes sense in a way. Statistically, you coudl try to have accurate conclusion. They COULD do that and it;s not that bad to do it.

But I agree with you that it just sounds weird to me. Like I actually saw someone using paper jam as an argument in his votes, these stuff just can happen.

Both way has a logical meaning, but it;s just a matter of I think the premature ends sounds weird to me.
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
The Wii U CSS and the two remaining Marios are pretty compelling evidence for there only being two characters remaining, and yet, I don't think you can't take Sakurai at face value when he says anything things like "we can't make that many more characters." Remember when he talked about how "we've expanded the roster about as much as is feasible" before release and people took that to mean that the roster would shrink this time around?

If anything, he purposefully sets a low bar, before doing his best to exceed it. That would seem to entail more than just Wolf and a single ballot character, or pessimistically, Wolf BSed as a ballot character plus one other (albeit not more than 2-3 newcomers and not every last one of the bottom-of-the-barrel veterans he replaced/moved past).
 
Last edited:

EmceeEspio

Not the Break Man
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
7,016
Location
The "Skilled" Halidom
NNID
captainlucario
Now, the only real veterans missing are Wolf and Snake, considering the Icies won't be back until Smash 5 for tech reasons. Probably balance reasons too.

Wolf is a clear-cut obvious pick to me. Snake would be great, especially as I'm starting to get into MGS now. (Brawl, Starbomb, Death Battle, too much peaked my interest for me not to try it.) I'm not sure if Snake will be able to get back in though.

After those two the only obvious, popular choice is King K. Rool.
 
Last edited:

[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]

Off floating somewhere
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
5,209
Now, the only real veterans missing are Wolf and Snake, considering the Icies won't be back until Smash 5 for tech reasons. Probably balance reasons too.

Wolf is a clear-cut obvious pick to me. Snake would be great, especially as I'm starting to get into MGS now. (Brawl, Starbomb, Death Battle, too much peaked my interest for me not to try it.) I'm not sure if Snake will be able to get back in though.

After those two the only obvious, popular choice is King K. Rool.
Of course with Snake you have Konami:glare: Wolf has a really good shot and Krool is also poised to win the ballot. However if Snake can't come back, then I suggest porting some of his moves over to Sami (Advance Wars) while also giving her some original moves. (Though in her official artwork she does have a rocket launcher) Not to mention the Wars series would finally get a rep. Plus she's my second most wanted DLC character, Wolf's my first in case you couldn't tell:smirk:.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,926
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
NNID
Ridleylash
3DS FC
1736-1657-3905
We're still bringing up Ridley? Also, I don't see how you compare Ridley to Ryu and Street Fighter like seriously what's the comparison? Cause I'll admit this got me so confused and lost in a minute.
> Sakurai says Ridley would be too hard to adapt into Smash
> Puts Ryu in the game with his moveset almost totally unchanged aside from being adapted into Smash

It's sort of like a double standard; why is a traditional fighter able to make it in virtually unscathed in his mechanics, but a highly requested character from a franchise headed by the man who made the Game Boy considered "too difficult"? If it's because of tails, look at Charizard and Mewtwo's tails. If it's a matter of height, than I guess Ganondorf's out of scale, too; he's shorter than he is canonically. If it's a matter of looking awkward, than does anybody really care about one slightly awkward look in a game where you can have 9 Donkey Kongs in the same stage, 8 of which are canonically sons of the 9th?

If Ryu's fine to make it, there's no logical excuse to keep Ridley out of the game at this point. That'd be like saying "Well, Wolf's a clone, and nobody liked the clones in Smash 4, so let's cut Wolf from this game and never add him back!"; it's stupid to cut someone just because of opinions on their role.
 

Champ Gold

Smash Scrublord
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
12,024
Location
Houston
3DS FC
1779-2820-4833
Switch FC
SW-1452-9841-1035
> Sakurai says Ridley would be too hard to adapt into Smash
> Puts Ryu in the game with his moveset almost totally unchanged aside from being adapted into Smash

It's sort of like a double standard; why is a traditional fighter able to make it in virtually unscathed in his mechanics, but a highly requested character from a franchise headed by the man who made the Game Boy considered "too difficult"? If it's because of tails, look at Charizard and Mewtwo's tails. If it's a matter of height, than I guess Ganondorf's out of scale, too; he's shorter than he is canonically. If it's a matter of looking awkward, than does anybody really care about one slightly awkward look in a game where you can have 9 Donkey Kongs in the same stage, 8 of which are canonically sons of the 9th?

If Ryu's fine to make it, there's no logical excuse to keep Ridley out of the game at this point. That'd be like saying "Well, Wolf's a clone, and nobody liked the clones in Smash 4, so let's cut Wolf from this game and never add him back!"; it's stupid to cut someone just because of opinions on their role.

Here's something about Ryu that you didn't figure out, his moveset can fit into ANY fighting game. That is something Ridley has never had before.

That isn't a detriment to Ridley but an asset to Ryu. Play more fighting games than Smash, you'll see why I said his moveset can transverse to any fighter. It's been like that even for Smash for 15 years :mariomelee:
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,926
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
NNID
Ridleylash
3DS FC
1736-1657-3905
Here's something about Ryu that you didn't figure out, his moveset can fit into ANY fighting game. That is something Ridley has never had before.

That isn't a detriment to Ridley but an asset to Ryu. Play more fighting games than Smash, you'll see why I said his moveset can transverse to any fighter. It's been like that even for Smash for 15 years :mariomelee:
Smash also doesn't play like a traditional fighting game normally, so saying that is ignoring that they still needed to adapt Ryu into the Smash roster, and that meant letting him do things he normally cannot do. I seriously doubt a character who couldn't dash or double jump would go over well in Smash play. :p

Traditional fighters work a hell of a lot differently than Smash, so saying that Ryu "can fit into any fighting game" is like saying that Mario "can fit into any fighting game". There's still the glaring issue of adapting them to the mechanics of the game they're in. Just porting something over doesn't work, because then the ported fighter is either at an innate disadvantage due to the new mechanics or is considered ridiculously good because it isn't balanced into the roster and thus could become dominant. And if you've never had the chance to appear as a fighter in a fighting game, there's no way to tell if you're moveset is good, because it has never been put to the competetive scene.

And I don't think Ryu's moveset can work well in something like, say, Killer Instinct or Bloody Roar, so the "his moveset works in any fighting game" thing is wrong anyways. :p
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Have we seriously gone so low as to use ****ing Ryu as reason to complain about Ridley?
 

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
Tbh, I still don't see a relation.

The point seems to be that if Ryu could be this faithful to Street Fighter, there's no reason Ridley couldn't be made faithful enough. Hmm... hard to say. I don't think Sakurai mentioned his moveset being the factor, moreso his proportions being awkward for a playable fighter. Well, opinions do change over time, so who knows.

:231:
 

Burruni

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
9,408
Location
Some Netherworld
Yeah, I'd be down for a summer wear costume pack :4shulk:. The only one costume that should been there from the start is

I don't even like Rosalina that much, and that's saying something.
HOW ABOUT THE 4 OUTFITS WARIO LOST BETWEEN BRAWL AND SMASH 4?!
LET'S RESTORE LOST COSTUMES FIRST.
 

Champ Gold

Smash Scrublord
Joined
Aug 11, 2014
Messages
12,024
Location
Houston
3DS FC
1779-2820-4833
Switch FC
SW-1452-9841-1035
Smash also doesn't play like a traditional fighting game normally, so saying that is ignoring that they still needed to adapt Ryu into the Smash roster, and that meant letting him do things he normally cannot do. I seriously doubt a character who couldn't dash or double jump would go over well in Smash play. :p

Traditional fighters work a hell of a lot differently than Smash, so saying that Ryu "can fit into any fighting game" is like saying that Mario "can fit into any fighting game". There's still the glaring issue of adapting them to the mechanics of the game they're in. Just porting something over doesn't work, because then the ported fighter is either at an innate disadvantage due to the new mechanics or is considered ridiculously good because it isn't balanced into the roster and thus could become dominant. And if you've never had the chance to appear as a fighter in a fighting game, there's no way to tell if you're moveset is good, because it has never been put to the competetive scene.

And I don't think Ryu's moveset can work well in something like, say, Killer Instinct or Bloody Roar, so the "his moveset works in any fighting game" thing is wrong anyways. :p
I meant from his inputs, style and how almost most fighting game characters based certain designs off of him.

Plus are you saying Mario couldn't fit into fighters? He has a fireball and uppercut
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 16, 2013
Messages
10,909


Is roy ever going to get the love and repsect he deserves in this?

(Aka it looks like katie doesn't want to stop teasing roy.) (and yes i am aware katie is a roy fan.)
 
Last edited:

DustyPumpkin

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
1,860
NNID
DustyPumpkin
3DS FC
4038-5990-1614
Switch FC
0550-6678-6601
I don't see how those things are connected?

If anything, all the unique inputs and combo stuff Ryu got lends credit to what Sakurai said about "Providing accurate portrayals of characters", which he felt wasn't possible with Ridley were he to be made playable.
Yeah cause that stage hazard has a real lot of love and effort when it comes to Providing an accurate portra-HUR.... an accurate portra-GUH...

Jeeze, No, I can't even say that out loud, let alone write it down without loosing lunch
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
I meant from his inputs, style and how almost most fighting game characters based certain designs off of him.

Plus are you saying Mario couldn't fit into fighters? He has a fireball and uppercut
Not all fighters have fireballs and if one does that doesn't necessarily mean they're as plentiful as they are in Street Fighter. Take DOA or Tekken for example, if I recall Devil Jin from Tekken is like the only character that can really perform something similar to a fire ball. In DOA,as far as I know, no one can, Soulcalibur very few depending on the game, and in Virtual Fighter there aren't any that I recall having one. Also in some cases Mario might have to be scaled up because he is too short.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,639
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Not all fighters have fireballs and if one does that doesn't necessarily mean they're as plentiful as they are in Street Fighter. Take DOA or Tekken for example, if I recall Devil Jin from Tekken is like the only character that can really perform something similar to a fire ball. In DOA,as far as I know, no one can, Soulcalibur very few depending on the game, and in Virtual Fighter there aren't any that I recall having one. Also in some cases Mario might have to be scaled up because he is too short.
Ridley had fireballs in DOA, that counts, right?
 

EmceeEspio

Not the Break Man
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
7,016
Location
The "Skilled" Halidom
NNID
captainlucario
Not all fighters have fireballs and if one does that doesn't necessarily mean they're as plentiful as they are in Street Fighter. Take DOA or Tekken for example, if I recall Devil Jin from Tekken is like the only character that can really perform something similar to a fire ball. In DOA,as far as I know, no one can, Soulcalibur very few depending on the game, and in Virtual Fighter there aren't any that I recall having one. Also in some cases Mario might have to be scaled up because he is too short.
Mario is five foot tall.

Just proportioned weird.
 
Joined
Feb 14, 2015
Messages
1,926
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
NNID
Ridleylash
3DS FC
1736-1657-3905
Honestly, the whole "Ridley is too big" argument bugs me on many levels; not just as a Ridley fan, but as a scientific person. In fact, if we use animals as a baseline, Ridley doesn't even get over 700 lbs; here's the best approximation I can get as to Ridley's dimensions;

If Ridley is 12 feet tall, that means he's most likely double that in both length and wingspan (as this is generally how saurians work); this means we have the following dimensions for Ridley;
  • 12 feet tall.
  • 24 feet long.
  • 24 foot wingspan.
In order for Ridley to properly fly in Earth-like gravity (which I used to make the analysis easier), he must be the same weight as or lighter than the largest volant animals on Earth; that being the pterosaur Quetzalcoatlus. Quetzalcoatlus weighs about 440-550 lbs (200-250 kilograms) with a 10-11 foot wingspan , so if we have Ridley play by those rules, he'd be about that weight or at most a little heavier due to his stockier proportions.

So here's the overall dimensions of Ridley, going by this analysis;
  • 12 feet tall.
  • 24 feet long.
  • 24 foot wingspan
  • 550-600 lbs (250-300 kg)/440-550 lbs (200-250 kg), depending on musculature.
To put this in perspective, Tyrannosaurus rex (the closest dinosaur in size to Ridley at 13 feet) is up to 6.8 metric tonnes (14,991.4 lbs). Ridley is between 24.98 and 27.25 times as light as a Tyrannosaurus. He ain't no heavyweight, that's for damn sure.

As for his height and width....well, that's why proper scaling exists. :p
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
19,183
Location
An elevator
Honestly, the whole "Ridley is too big" argument bugs me on many levels; not just as a Ridley fan, but as a scientific person. In fact, if we use animals as a baseline, Ridley doesn't even get over 700 lbs; here's the best approximation I can get as to Ridley's dimensions;

If Ridley is 12 feet tall, that means he's most likely double that in both length and wingspan (as this is generally how saurians work); this means we have the following dimensions for Ridley;
  • 12 feet tall.
  • 24 feet long.
  • 24 foot wingspan.
In order for Ridley to properly fly in Earth-like gravity (which I used to make the analysis easier), he must be the same weight as or lighter than the largest volant animals on Earth; that being the pterosaur Quetzalcoatlus. Quetzalcoatlus weighs about 440-550 lbs (200-250 kilograms) with a 10-11 foot wingspan , so if we have Ridley play by those rules, he'd be about that weight or at most a little heavier due to his stockier proportions.

So here's the overall dimensions of Ridley, going by this analysis;
  • 12 feet tall.
  • 24 feet long.
  • 24 foot wingspan
  • 550-600 lbs (250-300 kg)/440-550 lbs (200-250 kg), depending on musculature.
To put this in perspective, Tyrannosaurus rex (the closest dinosaur in size to Ridley at 13 feet) is up to 6.8 metric tonnes (14,991.4 lbs). Ridley is between 24.98 and 27.25 times as light as a Tyrannosaurus. He ain't no heavyweight, that's for damn sure.

As for his height and width....well, that's why proper scaling exists. :p
Using earth science on a Purple space dragon being inserted into a different videogame isnt exactly the most logical endeavor.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom