Character Discussion Thread

[Burruni]

Honestly, the whole "Ridley is too big" argument bugs me on many levels; not just as a Ridley fan, but as a scientific person. In fact, if we use animals as a baseline, Ridley doesn't even get over 700 lbs; here's the best approximation I can get as to Ridley's dimensions;

If Ridley is 12 feet tall, that means he's most likely double that in both length and wingspan (as this is generally how saurians work); this means we have the following dimensions for Ridley;

• 12 feet tall.
• 24 feet long.
• 24 foot wingspan.

In order for Ridley to properly fly in Earth-like gravity (which I used to make the analysis easier), he must be the same weight as or lighter than the largest volant animals on Earth; that being the pterosaur Quetzalcoatlus. Quetzalcoatlus weighs about 440-550 lbs (200-250 kilograms) with a 10-11 foot wingspan , so if we have Ridley play by those rules, he'd be about that weight or at most a little heavier due to his stockier proportions.

So here's the overall dimensions of Ridley, going by this analysis;

• 12 feet tall.
• 24 feet long.
• 24 foot wingspan
• 550-600 lbs (250-300 kg)/440-550 lbs (200-250 kg), depending on musculature.

To put this in perspective, Tyrannosaurus rex (the closest dinosaur in size to Ridley at 13 feet) is up to 6.8 metric tonnes (14,991.4 lbs). Ridley is between 24.98 and 27.25 times as light as a Tyrannosaurus. He ain't no heavyweight, that's for damn sure.

As for his height and width....well, that's why proper scaling exists.

Scaling.
You scale his arms or neck down and they'll become 2D they're so thin.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Using earth science on a Purple space dragon being inserted into a different videogame isnt exactly the most logical endeavor.

True, but this is actually more about canonical Ridley (the one from the main series) and not so much Smash itself. And, of course, physics apply to anything no matter what it is even when fictional, unless explicitly stated that it does not.

EDIT:

Scaling.
You scale his arms or neck down and they'll become 2D they're so thin.

That's not quite how scaling works, actually; "scaling" in a scientific sense (which is how I used it) is more defined as being "to adjust in amount according to a fixed scale or proportion". If you shrink Ridley's body, everything else must be shrunk at the same time in accordance, otherwise the result is disproportionate.

Basically, Ridley retains the same dimensions if scaled down, it's only his size in relation to other organisms that is changed by scaling; if he is scaled down to 8 feet tall, he retains the exact proportions he'd have at, say, 20 feet tall, but his overall height is reduced. Scientific scaling is basically like resizing a picture in a picture-editing software, really; everything stays the same but the size itself.

 

[A Distant Demon]

, physics apply to anything no matter what

no. . .no they do not.
ex double jumping and pretty much everything else nintendo.
videogames and logic tend not to mix.

 

[Schnee117]

A lot of headaches would be saved if they actually bothered to make the Scan Visor like a PokeDex and give weights, heights, wingspans etc.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

no. . .no they do not.
ex double jumping and pretty much everything else nintendo.
videogames and logic tend not to mix.

That's why there's such a thing as "suspension of disbelief", though; we can accept these things because of the fact that we have no solid base for which to base them on, or they're simply gameplay mechanics to enhance gameplay. We don't know if the Space Jump or Varia Suit would work in our worlds, but we can suspend disbelief in order to let it go.

Having an animal that should be/is 6.8 metric tonnes being able to fly makes no sense logically, as the largest flying animals we have don't even break the 1,000 pound mark, especially since Ridley is (as of Other M) far bulkier than any flying animal his size has ever been. And Metroid is grounded far more than other Nintendo franchises are, so it's logical to conclude that real-life physics can apply to that universe about as well as it does to ours.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

While I do believe Ridley being midweight at max would be a good way of balancing, I don't want to talk about Ridley here anymore, been burned by Fed ****up foo much now

 

[Burruni]

True, but this is actually more about canonical Ridley (the one from the main series) and not so much Smash itself. And, of course, physics apply to anything no matter what it is even when fictional, unless explicitly stated that it does not.

EDIT:

That's not quite how scaling works, actually; "scaling" in a scientific sense (which is how I used it) is more defined as being "to adjust in amount according to a fixed scale or proportion". If you shrink Ridley's body, everything else must be shrunk at the same time in accordance, otherwise the result is disproportionate.

Basically, Ridley retains the same dimensions if scaled down, it's only his size in relation to other organisms that is changed by scaling; if he is scaled down to 8 feet tall, he retains the exact proportions he'd have at, say, 20 feet tall, but his overall height is reduced. Scientific scaling is basically like resizing a picture in a picture-editing software, really; everything stays the same but the size itself.

Dude.
I'm just poking a bit of fun.
You should know damn well by now I'm a firm detractor on Ridley as he is working as a fighter, not on his merits on one.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Know what would be awesome? If Ridley, may God allow him to get playable one day, would have a unique gimmick in his moveset with aerial grabbing and grappling. Think Bowser's Side B, but in the air, working like a sort of aerial grab. That could possibly make him the most hype newcomer ever.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Know what would be awesome? If Ridley, may God allow him to get playable one day, would have a unique gimmick in his moveset with aerial grabbing and grappling. Think Bowser's Side B, but in the air, working like a sort of aerial grab. That could possibly make him the most hype newcomer ever.

This was one of the biggest theories that ran around pre-release. Mostly from "ridley grabbed Pikachu" but it was pretty common nonetheless.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Know what would be awesome? If Ridley, may God allow him to get playable one day, would have a unique gimmick in his moveset with aerial grabbing and grappling. Think Bowser's Side B, but in the air, working like a sort of aerial grab. That could possibly make him the most hype newcomer ever.

Outside of using his tail as a Pogo Stick it's one of the most defining traits of Ridley imo, it's because he doesn't just look at you with a scary face like Ganondorf or casually breathes fire all the time but he swoops in and grabs your ass as in to say "You're mine *****"

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Really, Ridley is more about being as brutal as humanly possible over being big; and the Pyrosphere hazard does little to show that; it's more of an savage mindless thing than a thinking being with intelligence.

On the topic of size, I decided to see canon Ridley's size compared to Bagan's Ridley's size and using Samus as a baseline.
Here's what I got;

Bagan's Ridley, unmodified from default size, is waist-height on a canonical-ish Ridley size. Samus is also waist-height to canon-ish Ridley, and shoulder-level to the unmodified Ridley.

Basically, this means that you only need the cut the *******'s height in half to get a decent Smash combatant size (keep in mind both Ridley's have the hunchback; straightened spines makes Bagan's size about stomach/lower chest-level to canon Ridley).

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Really, Ridley is more about being as brutal as humanly possible over being big; and the Pyrosphere hazard does little to show that; it's more of an savage mindless thing than a thinking being with intelligence.

On the topic of size, I decided to see canon Ridley's size compared to Bagan's Ridley's size and using Samus as a baseline.
Here's what I got;
View attachment 57984
Bagan's Ridley, unmodified from default size, is waist-height on a canonical-ish Ridley size. Samus is also waist-height to canon-ish Ridley, and shoulder-level to the unmodified Ridley.

Basically, this means that you only need the cut the *******'s height in half to get a decent Smash combatant size (keep in mind both Ridley's have the hunchback; straightened spines makes Bagan's size about stomach/lower chest-level to canon Ridley).

And thats why i did a ridley vote in the ballot

It had the problems in sakurais reasons ridley failed again.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ive never seen ridley as big. That seems to always go to someone else like kraid. Ive always seen ridley as the the feral one with outright brutality or an agile master (though not at the same time)

But i also dont see metroid as a game of isilation but a game where you are never alone because you're with a world always there to kill you so what do i know.


There ive filled my quota for ridley support for the next 2 months.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

People who think "big" is a character trait of Ridley are in the same group of people who call Samus "Metroid"

 

[Deleted member]

If you're going to do a proper comparison between "canon" Ridley and Bagan's Ridley.....

don't use a scaled up take on Bagan's Ridley to represent "canon" Ridley.

Use the original design. Unaltered tail and wings and all.

 

[POKEMANSPIKA]

I saw some people talking about Excitebiker a few pages ago and you know there is a thread for him.
*cough cough shameless plug*
http://smashboards.com/threads/rev-...h-under-new-ownership-excitetheballot.336105/

 

[aldelaro5]

The advantage of paper mario is that he isn't too small or big.

He's thin, but in smash, it's fine

 

[Ura]

Really, Ridley is more about being as brutal as humanly possible over being big; and the Pyrosphere hazard does little to show that; it's more of an savage mindless thing than a thinking being with intelligence.

On the topic of size, I decided to see canon Ridley's size compared to Bagan's Ridley's size and using Samus as a baseline.
Here's what I got;
View attachment 57984
Bagan's Ridley, unmodified from default size, is waist-height on a canonical-ish Ridley size. Samus is also waist-height to canon-ish Ridley, and shoulder-level to the unmodified Ridley.

Basically, this means that you only need the cut the *******'s height in half to get a decent Smash combatant size (keep in mind both Ridley's have the hunchback; straightened spines makes Bagan's size about stomach/lower chest-level to canon Ridley).

Well TBH, the model on the left looks a bit unfaithful to the character.

People who think "big" is a character trait of Ridley are in the same group of people who call Samus "Metroid"

So Sakurai's in that group as well?

 

[DustyPumpkin]

So Sakurai's in that group as well?

No he's done his research, he knows who's Samus and who isn't

.....That's it though

 

[Kenith]

I saw some people talking about Excitebiker a few pages ago and you know there is a thread for him.
*cough cough shameless plug*
http://smashboards.com/threads/rev-...h-under-new-ownership-excitetheballot.336105/

This.
All aboard the hype train for the most Exciting newcomer.

 

[Champ Gold]

No he's done his research, he knows who's Samus and who isn't

.....That's it though

That's the only thing Sakurai has to know. But I think he knows more about Samus than most people say about him.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

That's the only thing Sakurai has to know. But I think he knows more about Samus than most people say about him.

Well he definitely knows Samus isn't Metroid
and That Samus is a Girl
and that she has a Zero Suit , And the Other M look for it was terrible so if she's going to get some giantass heels she might as well have ones that are useful

 

[A Distant Demon]

No he's done his research, he knows who's Samus and who isn't

.....That's it though

Based on ZSS's moveset im not really sure TBH

 

[Pakky]

Well he sure doesn't know who Ganondorf is.

 

[BKupa666]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm happy Ridley fans are keeping him a part of the conversation in terms of character discussion. There's no shortage of people pontificating on how his fans should "accept him as a boss and move on because I personally have, and you should do as I do" which probably wouldn't be the case with any other character. It'd be a shame for him to potentially miss out on future titles if the developers get the sense that, because his fans are more subdued now, they actively like Stage Hazardley.

On a different note, I forgot to bring it up last night when people were talking about only two DLC characters being left, but there's more evidence in favor of additional characters in the form of the 3DS' bonus All-Star stage graphics. If I remember correctly, there's like three additional stages left in the coding, leaving room for at least two more dozen characters or so. Not that that'd ever happen, but when no new stages would be needed for just Wolf and a ballot choice, this is pretty important IMO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

People who think "big" is a character trait of Ridley are in the same group of people who call Samus "Metroid"

But Ridley can be legitimately called 2 big, Samus cannot be called 2 Metroid.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm Ridley fans are keeping him a part of the conversation in terms of character discussion. There's no shortage of people pontificating on how his fans should "accept him as a boss and move on because I personally have, and you should do as I do" which probably wouldn't be the case with any other character. It'd be a shame for him to potentially miss out on future titles if the developers get the sense that, because his fans are more subdued now, they actively like Stage Hazardley.

On a different note, I forgot to bring it up last night when people were talking about only two DLC characters being left, but there's more evidence in favor of additional characters in the form of the 3DS' bonus All-Star stage graphics. If I remember correctly, there's like three additional stages left in the coding, leaving room for at least two more dozen characters or so. Not that that'd ever happen, but when no new stages would be needed for just Wolf and a ballot choice, this is pretty important IMO.

I think we're getting at least 3 ballot characters, honestly. Whether the extra Mario slot is part of that or not I don't know, but I don't think there's only two characters left. At the same time, I don't think we'll get TOO many more, no more than topping the roster off at 60 (which I believe is 5 more characters...?)

 

[Ura]

While I don't really support Ridley or anything, I can sorta understand where his fans are coming from. The whole "he's not playable and he never will be" hate reminds me a lot of Roy from back in the post-Brawl days. A lot of people were adamant that he was only a cheap plug for FE6 (which is nonsensical seeing as he's in the Brawl files) and that Japan hated him which is the farthest thing from the truth. They went on and on about how he never stood a chance of returning back to Smash Bros but fans such as myself never gave up hope and continued supporting him and here he is in the game right now.

Of course, the situations do differ in a way. Sakurai made no stance towards Roy whereas he pretty much buried Ridley by saying he couldn't get in because of his height and that led to the situation he's in now. It's going to take a lot but fans either need to convince Sakurai via the Ballot that Ridley can work or hope that Ridley in the new Metroid Prime game (which is going to be on the NX apparently) resizes him and can change Sakurai's mind.

 

[Pakky]

Unrelated but is "Mii2king" "Mew2king?"

 

[Kenith]

I think we're getting Wolf and then King K. Rool and Isaac next year.
Inklings and Dixie Kong are also pretty likely.
Also, I really want to have faith in Excite Bike...

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think we're getting Wolf and then King K. Rool and Isaac next year.
Inklings and Dixie Kong are also pretty likely.
Also, I really want to have faith in Excite Bike...

That's about what I see at this point. I can't think of much more. Though I don't think we're getting Inklings anymore.

 

[Kenith]

Unrelated but is "Mii2king" "Mew2king?"

Is that a user here?
It's not him.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm Ridley fans are keeping him a part of the conversation in terms of character discussion. There's no shortage of people pontificating on how his fans should "accept him as a boss and move on because I personally have, and you should do as I do" which probably wouldn't be the case with any other character. It'd be a shame for him to potentially miss out on future titles if the developers get the sense that, because his fans are more subdued now, they actively like Stage Hazardley.

On a different note, I forgot to bring it up last night when people were talking about only two DLC characters being left, but there's more evidence in favor of additional characters in the form of the 3DS' bonus All-Star stage graphics. If I remember correctly, there's like three additional stages left in the coding, leaving room for at least two more dozen characters or so. Not that that'd ever happen, but when no new stages would be needed for just Wolf and a ballot choice, this is pretty important IMO.

I think you're missing a couple words in the beginning of your post.
I agree with both of your points.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I like the optimism around here in regards to the number of additional DLC characters we are likely to see.

Over in the Nzone social thread (the successor to the leaks group social thread) the majority of the group has settled in on "we're probably just going to see two more characters as DLC."

I'm hoping we at least get Wolf and two newcomers.

 

[N3ON]

I think carrying on with the Ridley support would be a lot more worthwhile if that's what had caused Sakurai to come around on Villager, but it wasn't.

It's a question of feasibility, not popularity. Ridley is definitely popular enough, Sakurai has acknowledged as much. I think there's like no chance he's going to make it in Smash 4, but as far as the future of the series goes, I think at this point it's out of the fans' hands, and all in Sakurai's. The supporters have done all they can, and for most other characters it would've been enough to cause their inclusion, but now it's just a matter of whether Sakurai will come around on the idea of Ridley.

I don't think he will short of Ridley getting smaller in an actual Metroid game, but you never know. That said, I don't think continuing demand is going to effect anything going forward at this point.

I know that might not be the most popular opinion.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I like the optimism around here in regards to the number of additional DLC characters we are likely to see.

Over in the Nzone social thread (the successor to the leaks group social thread) the majority of the group has settled in on "we're probably just going to see two more characters as DLC."

I'm hoping we at least get Wolf and two newcomers.

Wolf and two newcomers is all I want really. Wolf, K. Rool, and Isaac? I'm good.

 

[Kenith]

Things like Ridley are one of the reasons I want to see a new director. I want to see Smash Bros. go in a different direction.
Note that I'm NOT saying Sakurai should never touch Smash again because he didn't want Ridley playable.
Disclaimer so people won't infer that's what I'm saying.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Things like Ridley are one of the reasons I want to see a new director. I want to see Smash Bros. go in a different direction.
Note that I'm NOT saying Sakurai should never touch Smash again because he didn't want Ridley playable.
Disclaimer so people won't infer that's what I'm saying.

I want to see the geme go in a new direction as well.

Im just worried that direction isnt as good

 

[Akira213]

I like the optimism around here in regards to the number of additional DLC characters we are likely to see.

Over in the Nzone social thread (the successor to the leaks group social thread) the majority of the group has settled in on "we're probably just going to see two more characters as DLC."

I'm hoping we at least get Wolf and two newcomers.

As far as I'm concerned we can expect DLC for most of Smash 4's lifetime. Nintendo is a business and Smash DLC is going to be extremely profitable. I'm yet to hear of a business not opting for what is extremely profitable.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I like the optimism around here in regards to the number of additional DLC characters we are likely to see.

Optimism on the number of DLC characters. lol.
Actually it does seem people aren't as doom and gloom about DLC at the moment.
What we need is... three veterans released (at once or otherwise), and watch as people start thinking we are getting more because we haven't got any ballot characters yet. (That would probably just cause more people to think we are only getting one ballot character though.)

Also, I really want to have faith in Excite Bike...

I think it's likely that the Excitebiker was one of the characters planned for ssb4. If so, that would be a wasted opportunity not to include him.

Things like Ridley are one of the reasons I want to see a new director. I want to see Smash Bros. go in a different direction.
Note that I'm NOT saying Sakurai should never touch Smash again because he didn't want Ridley playable.
Disclaimer so people won't infer that's what I'm saying.

I wonder if a new developer would allow for more 3rd parties. (Or Brawlesque story mode.)
I hope it wouldn't mean R.I.P. surprise characters like .

 

[Kenith]

I still hope that Isaac and Excite Bike were cut as Assist Trophies because they were planning them as DLC.
It would confirm that Midna/Wolf Link isn't happening, but...
WHATEVER. It's worth the sacrifice for Isaac and Excitebike.