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Character Discussion Thread

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Arcadenik

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You are my inspiration. *insert inevitable Impa emoji*
And you are the reason I support Impa. I really like the idea... and I agree she is deserving (along with Tingle) and I think she can still be different from Sheik even with ninja-like moves. She could be a ninja but with more magic like that barrier thingy... and even with Sheikah items like the Mask of Truth and the Lens of Truth (need to come up with something to somehow make them work in Smash).
 

Ura

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Going to be honest here as I've noticed a growing trend for this out and around the web;

People vocally supporting characters, not because they like them, but rather because they deem them likely.
Are people that desperate to be correct with their support that they'd rather support someone entirely to say "i told you so" than to get a character they genuinely like on the roster?

(before anyone says anything; all the characters in my sig are characters I've adored in their games, they just all happen to be modern characters too)
I've been lobbying for a Golden Sun/Advance Wars rep since before Smash 4's release and K. Rool has been one of my most requested characters since Melee. Snake i've wanted to return since he was cut from Sm4sH.
 
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BluePikmin11

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True, but now we're in a situation where they're directly asking the fans who they'd like to see playable. Isaac is obviously one of the most demanded, so naturally he's an excellent choice for DLC. Saying he's less likely because he didn't make it into Brawl is similar to saying "Well, Mewtwo didn't make it onto the Smash 4 roster despite being at the peak of his popularity. Doubt he'll be made DLC."
So if one is the most demanded that makes him an excellent choice?
Don't we usually bring Miiverse choices when it comes to arguing this?
I see a flaw here.

Saying he's less likely because he didn't make it into Brawl is similar to saying "Well, Mewtwo didn't make it onto the Smash 4 roster despite being at the peak of his popularity. Doubt he'll be made DLC."
Mewtwo is an established character in Smash unlike Isaac though, he doesn't have to go through the hoops a Nintendo newcomer has to go through again.

I'm not sure if Youtube parodies are an accurate way to determine popularity. :ohwell:
I gave you noticeable popularity and those parodies certain show notability, give me some evidence that Golden Sun has a noticeable fanbase outside of Smash then I'll change my mind. Videos, memes, and other notable fan-made work show how notable the franchise is to many people, especially with Mother. I rarely see stuff like that when it comes to Golden Sun. There are remixes out there sure, but not much more than that.
 
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BluePikmin11

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I don't think ballot popularity alone makes him an excellent choice. They are other factors to consider too before saying that Isaac is that kind of choice. Not to mention that Sakurai is not the normal businessman you meet everyday, he looks at it much differently and factors in more things (such as importance to Nintendo, uniqueness, appearing in recent games, and more) before they can be considered for playability.
 
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False Sense

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So if one is the most demanded that makes him an excellent choice?
Don't we usually bring Miiverse choices when it comes to arguing this?
I see a flaw here.
He's an excellent choice because he's one of the most requested characters that's actually a viable choice for the roster.

In other words, he's not Goku.

I really shouldn't have to explain this.

Mewtwo is an established character in Smash unlike Isaac though, he doesn't have to go through the hoops a Nintendo newcomer has to go through again.
That's besides my original point. Mewtwo was neglected on the original Smash 4 roster, despite having virtually everything in his favor. One might conclude that Sakurai had no interest in bringing Mewtwo back based on that, and yet he became the first DLC character not long after the game was released.

Isaac didn't make it into Brawl, but now that DLC is a reality, who's to say that he won't get in now?

I gave you noticeable popularity and those parodies certain show notability, give me some evidence that Golden Sun has a noticeable fanbase outside of Smash then I'll change my mind. Videos, memes, and other notable fan-made work show how notable the franchise is to many people, especially with Mother. I rarely see stuff like that when it comes to Golden Sun. There are remixes out there sure, but not much more than that.
The problem is that these games are of a very different nature. Rhythm Heaven is a naturally comedic game, which makes it much easier to use the original material for parodies and memes. Golden Sun isn't like that, so regardless of popularity, you'e going to see significantly less of that sort of thing. You're more likely to find fan-made work like art and remixes (which you don't seem to count, for some reason).

This is why using Youtube parodies is a poor example to gauge popularity; it's a flawed comparison.
 

RobinOnDrugs

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Isaac has an opportunity to make it in for DLC along with many other characters. It also helps that he's one of the most requested among the Smash community.
 

Pakky

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When King K Rool is announced, I challenge all of those who supported him to a duel.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I'm not hopeful for any unrepresented franchises in general that haven't got the noticeable amount of popularity, unlike Rhythm Heaven and Splatoon.
a few trophies, a Smash Run enemy and 2 songs that were added in a patch. a costume and a trophy. Golden Sun has 2 songs, one of which being a remix. Golden Sun also sold VERY well, even Dark Dawn! If Isaac is requested enough, Sakurai doesn't have anything to say no at really.
 

BluePikmin11

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He's an excellent choice because he's one of the most requested characters that's actually a viable choice for the roster.

In other words, he's not Goku.

I really shouldn't have to explain this.
Just because he's viable doesn't mean he's an excellent choice either.
He may be a Nintendo character who's easier to get the rights of, but that in addition to popularity doesn't make him an excellent choice either. There other things to account too. Here's a pure example of an excellent with Mewtwo in Melee:
-Had his own movie.
-Being one of the most advertised characters in Pokemon.
-Being from an established franchise whose popularity is soaring high at the time.
-Also being one of the most iconic Pokemon characters.
-Has moveset potential with him being able to take a lot of moves from Pokemon for his moveset.
^^ That shows what makes a character an excellent choices.
Popularity and viability alone is going to convince Sakurai to add Isaac.

That's besides my original point. Mewtwo was neglected on the original Smash 4 roster, despite having virtually everything in his favor. One might conclude that Sakurai had no interest in bringing Mewtwo back based on that, and yet he became the first DLC character not long after the game was released.

Isaac didn't make it into Brawl, but now that DLC is a reality, who's to say that he won't get in now?
Didn't Sakurai provide an explanation as to why Mewtwo is DLC?
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...plains_why_mewtwo_isnt_paid_dlc_in_smash_bros
As for why Mewtwo isn't paid content from the start, releasing that character is an experiment meant to act as a foothold in content distribution; thus it's simply meant as part of the service we're providing to gamers.
He was never neglected, he was being saved on purpose for testing DLC and how successful it could be.

The problem is that these games are of a very different nature. Rhythm Heaven is a naturally comedic game, which makes it much easier to use the original material for parodies and memes. Golden Sun isn't like that, so regardless of popularity, you'e going to see significantly less of that sort of thing. You're more likely to find fan-made work like art and remixes (which you don't seem to count, for some reason).

This is why using Youtube parodies is a poor example to gauge popularity; it's a flawed comparison.
I was never gauging popularity, only notability.
 
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BluePikmin11

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Are you using this as an argument AGAINST Isaac? He literally has near infinite moveset potential to work on, there are no Isaac movesets that are similar outside of Judgment or Megiddo as Final Smashes! Do your research!
No, that wasn't an argument against him (not the main flaw I mentioned earlier that hinders his chances), that was an example of what makes a character an excellent choice. Lots of factors (not just requests and viability) are considered when it comes to playability to be considered an excellent choice.
 
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aldelaro5

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Going to be honest here as I've noticed a growing trend for this out and around the web;

People vocally supporting characters, not because they like them, but rather because they deem them likely.
Are people that desperate to be correct with their support that they'd rather support someone entirely to say "i told you so" than to get a character they genuinely like on the roster?

(before anyone says anything; all the characters in my sig are characters I've adored in their games, they just all happen to be modern characters too)
tbh, I noticed this was a huge problem before dlc, now, I think it at least got a bit lower, I don;t think this will go away, btu for now, it's viable for me.

I only support and only encourage support by wanting. The proof is actually, I'm neutral on everyone, but Paper Mario. It's that simple.
 

Cutie Gwen

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No, that wasn't an argument against him (not the main flaw I mentioned earlier that hinders his chances), that was an example of what makes a character an excellent choice. Lots of factors (not just requests and viability) are considered when it comes to playability to be considered an excellent choice.
Golden Sun sold well, including both sequels. It got positive reviews almost everywhere. There's enough moveset potential for 5 characters minimum. Isaac is a stupidly popular request, reaching next to K.Rool levels of want. By this logic, Isaac should have been a shoe-in back in Brawl!
 

BluePikmin11

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Golden Sun sold well, including both sequels. It got positive reviews almost everywhere. There's enough moveset potential for 5 characters minimum. Isaac is a stupidly popular request, reaching next to K.Rool levels of want. By this logic, Isaac should have been a shoe-in back in Brawl!
Yet, despite this, he didn't make Isaac playable for the base game of Smash 4 and in Brawl. If he couldn't get in either of those games despite the merits GS had, Isaac probably won't get in as DLC either, the ballot won't make much of difference other than him seeing the demand being bigger than before.
 

oZzIIgk

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Since we have a chance for Namco characters, why haven't I seen many suggestions for SoulCalibur characters? I would love to play Smash as one of the extremes of SoulCalibur. Any SoulCalibur character has a lot of options for moves, anyways, since they're already from fighting games.
Personally I would really want Voldo, but that's so unlikely that I've settled with Nightmare.
 

BluePikmin11

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He can make fans happy in other ways that doesn't contradict his philosophy with deciding newcomers for DLC.
That quote is too vague to say that only popular characters get in the game.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Since we have a chance for Namco characters, why haven't I seen many suggestions for SoulCalibur characters? I would love to play Smash as one of the extremes of SoulCalibur. Any SoulCalibur character has a lot of options for moves, anyways, since they're already from fighting games.
Personally I would really want Voldo, but that's so unlikely that I've settled with Nightmare.
Nightmare's the most popular SC character I've seen, Lloyd is more popular iirc
He can make fans happy in other ways that doesn't contradict his philosophy with deciding newcomers for DLC.
That quote is too vague to say that only popular characters get in the game.
He outright said it's to make fans happy and again, GS sold well, Isaac has more than enough potential and most importantly: IMMENSE POPULARITY. Also, do you honestly think Sakurai cares about whether he contradicts himself or not? We ALL know he loves contradicting himself
 
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BluePikmin11

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Contradicting himself on the types of characters he chooses, sure, but definitely not his philosophy with deciding newcomers.
Just because he said he said he wants fans to be happy doesn't mean he's only going to add popular newcomers in the game. I would be agreeing you if he was more specific on popular newcomers, but he wasn't.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Contradicting himself on the types of characters he chooses, sure, but definitely not his philosophy with deciding newcomers.
Just because he said he said he wants fans to be happy doesn't mean he's only going to add popular newcomers in the game. I would be agreeing you if he was more specific on popular newcomers, but he wasn't.
And that is precisely why we decided not only to distribute Mewtwo, but to also reintroduce Lucas, the protagonist of Mother 3, as a playable character. In other words, we plan to release premium DLC (downloadable content) for Sm4sh.
Notice he says 'premium DLC'
but it’s all about making players happy.
Which is why Young Link will NEVER come back and Isaac might very well join the battle. Honestly, you're just saying popular characters aren't likely in something that's essentially a popularity contest just to be a ****ing hipster at this point
 

JaidynReiman

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Golden Sun sold well, including both sequels. It got positive reviews almost everywhere. There's enough moveset potential for 5 characters minimum. Isaac is a stupidly popular request, reaching next to K.Rool levels of want. By this logic, Isaac should have been a shoe-in back in Brawl!
Dark Dawn's sales we don't have accurate numbers on. We can't say that game sold well. Whether it sold enough to make a profit or not, it certainly did not sell anywhere close to the first two. But the first two are more than enough.
 

BluePikmin11

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I hate being called a hipster man, can we just have one civil conversation that I'm not called that.

And that is precisely why we decided not only to distribute Mewtwo, but to also reintroduce Lucas, the protagonist of Mother 3, as a playable character. In other words, we plan to release premium DLC (downloadable content) for Sm4sh.
Notice he says 'premium DLC'
but it’s all about making players happy.
Which is why Young Link will NEVER come back and Isaac might very well join the battle. Honestly, you're just saying popular characters aren't likely in something that's essentially a popularity contest just to be a ****ing hipster at this point
Premium DLC means he's not going to make just cheap easy to produce content that would be considered a rip-off to fans. Lots of games nowadays do that with DLC and people hate the concept of it more because of that, but Sakurai isn't cheap at all. Him including fully fledged characters, stages, and costumes show he's willing to go all out on making DLC that's worth buying.
 
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Megadoomer

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I'm pretty sure any DLC character will make fans happy. Bringing back Lucas made fans happy, even though he was unchanged from Brawl and there was absolutely no reason why he was cut in the first place. I'm sure that even bringing back Pichu would make people happy, so I'm not sure how useful that is as a criteria.

As for Isaac, I don't see why he shouldn't be included. I feel like King K. Rool and the Brawl veterans should take priority (the Brawl vets because they're unique characters who already have a large basis for their moves (even if they can't be copied directly from Brawl) and already have an established fanbase in Smash Bros.; K. Rool because Donkey Kong is bizarrely under-represented given that it had two major releases since Brawl, quite a few characters who could be used, and of those characters, K. Rool seems to stand head and shoulders above the rest in terms of having material to draw from), but all of the content from Golden Sun was removed from Smash Bros. for no apparent reason, and Isaac's certainly one of the more popular choices as far as newcomers go.
 

Cutie Gwen

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It is, but to say Sakurai is only trying to make the fans happy for DLC AND to say that means we only get popular newcomers is a bit of a overreaction.

I think popularity just as big,maybe slightly bigger, factor for DLC as the base game.
Considering the ballot is essentially "Who do you want? Tell us!" it's got a much bigger factor, especially as you have to keep in mind not everyone will be DLC
I hate being called a hipster man, can we just have one civil conversation that I'm not called that.


Premium DLC means he's not going to make just cheap easy to produce content that would be considered a rip-off to fans. Lots of games nowadays do that with DLC and people hate the concept of it more because of that, but Sakurai isn't cheap at all. Him including fully fledged characters, stages, and costumes show he's willing to go all out on making DLC that's worth buying.
This is literally the first time you've been called a hipster by me, not to mention it's your own fault as you think Young Link has more chance than K.Rool. Sakurai IS being cheap for 8 reasons: Special moves! Why do the DLC characters lack custom moves?
I'm pretty sure any DLC character will make fans happy
but all of the content from Golden Sun was removed from Smash Bros. for no apparent reason, and Isaac's certainly one of the more popular choices as far as newcomers go.
HEY SMASH FANS GIVE US MONEY HERE'S KAEPORA GAEPORA AS DLC!
Except the remix from Brawl is back and Dark Dawn's got a music track too
 

Cutie Gwen

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You really shouldn't be calling me that in the first place then. :L
Except you believe only unpopular obscure as hell characters have a shot while the most requested characters aren't likely, meaning you're kind of a hipster
Then clearly, Shrek, Spongebob, and Goku should be in Smash. :awesome: it's good for business. :troll:
Except Isaac is not only stupidly popular, but doesn't break the rule "video game characters only"
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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When King K Rool is announced, I challenge all of those who supported him to a duel.
You will be battling forever if you battle everyone. :p

Anyway, I left for a couple hours, and I come back to
Sakurai: DLC is about making fans happy
...........I approve. :4pacman:
Show me that list, and I meant in general. Seriously, Prince Sable owes you money because you're the only reason people here knew who the he was
Cus nobody knew about his assist trophy status. :p
 
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Blue, you are kinda being a hipster. When you think a clone that got replaced with a better version has more of a chance than one of the most requested Ballot fighters of all, that is so obviously being a hipster. What really makes Young Link any more likely than K.Rool outside of being easy to make? Why should Sakurai bring Young Link back when not many people would use him anyways, there's characters far more people want than him, thus more profitable, and he's already been replaced by a better version? Toon Link is a better Young Link, and since Toon Link's back, there's no reason to drag the inferior of the two back because he's "popular" right now thanks to MM3D.

If we get Ballot fighters, they need to be unique from characters in the base game in order to stand out enough for someone to consider dropping money on them. Ridley and K.Rool would sell amazingly well, but Young Link probably wouldn't. He's a veteran, but Toon Link already is everything Young Link was, but better. And the whole mask gimmick's dead because, guess what, kinda can't do transformations in this game. Did you see the ****storm that erupted when Roy got leaked? Young Link would cause the same reaction.

And if we get any other vets back, I'd think Wolf and Snake would be most likely, not Young Link or Pichu.
 

BluePikmin11

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Didn't you have Harry in your prediction roster sometime before the game was released?
Yes, but I have changed my way of predicting characters and his obscurity from his franchise makes him very big longshot.

Blue, you are kinda being a hipster. When you think a clone that got replaced with a better version has more of a chance than one of the most requested Ballot fighters of all, that is so obviously being a hipster. What really makes Young Link any more likely than K.Rool outside of being easy to make? Why should Sakurai bring Young Link back when not many people would use him anyways, there's characters far more people want than him, thus more profitable, and he's already been replaced by a better version? Toon Link is a better Young Link, and since Toon Link's back, there's no reason to drag the inferior of the two back because he's "popular" right now thanks to MM3D.
I only put YL at a 25% chance, I also put King K. Rool at 25% too, which isn't saying much or likely.
 
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