Character Discussion Thread

[ChikoLad]

Just to say.

Japan loves bizzare quirky characters to the point that Tingle got 3 of his own games.

If western audiences have really opened up to him due to influences from like Brawl in the Family and ProtonJon who have up-played his comical appeal... so what?

Doesn't say that people don't genuinely like him.

Doesn't Japan hate Waluigi though?

 

[N3ON]

Except characters like Chorus Kids and Shulk weren't all that popular outside of SMashboards and hard-core Smash fans.

I'm pretty much only speaking about Smash communities. The average consumer of Smash isn't aware of most leaks anyway.

 

[Burruni]

Doesn't Japan hate Waluigi though?

...No.

I have NO idea where you got this.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The only Japanese related thing I know about Waluigi is that his name is punny. Waruiijii, Warui=bad, evil. Ruiijii=Luigi, also punny as it means 'similar' iirc

 

[ChikoLad]

...No.

I have NO idea where you got this.

I swear there was some poll about Mario character/Nintendo character popularity or something, and Waluigi didn't even rank.

I'd have to go looking for it, but I don't care enough to do that.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

We could have the excitebiker for a retro rep I guess.

Also hey guys haven't seen you in a while!

Remember me?

I remember you. You're the guy who didn't know that the Smash Social thread existed for a long time, right?

 

[Burruni]

I swear there was some poll about Mario character/Nintendo character popularity or something, and Waluigi didn't even rank.

I'd have to go looking for it, but I don't care enough to do that.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/perception-of-smash-dlc-in-japan/

While Daisy (somehow), Toad, and even Geno holds above him, Waluigi still isn't "hated." He's above even Rayman.

 

[ChikoLad]

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/perception-of-smash-dlc-in-japan/

While Daisy (somehow), Toad, and even Geno holds above him, Waluigi still isn't "hated." He's above even Rayman.

That's not the one I was referring to, I know that one.

 

[El Syd]

I'm pretty much only speaking about Smash communities. The average consumer of Smash isn't aware of most leaks anyway.

Well, then to answer your question (if there was a question - can't be bothered to check tbh ). I'd say it more accurately represents the fickle nature of the masses rather than any genuine desire or popularity.

More like, "flavor of the month" if you catch my drift.

People aren't very good at forming their own opinions, and those same people instead cling to whatever's popular because they can.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

@ ChikoLad

Does it even matter where Waluigi's popularity came from?

People like him and a lot of people at that.

Does it honestly matter whether it came from memes or his games or whatever?

 

[ChikoLad]

@ ChikoLad

Does it even matter where Waluigi's popularity came from?

People like him and a lot of people at that.

Does it honestly matter whether it came from memes or his games or whatever?

He's not this character that people would actually play as though.

He is a character people like to make jokes about.

I guarantee if he actually got in, nobody would care.

Not that it matters though, it's certainly not happening in this game. He's already an AT, and was used as the shining example of "a character that can't make it" by Sakurai himself.

If he was truly beloved, he would be in the game since Brawl.

 

[A Distant Demon]

He's not this character that people would actually play as though.

He is a character people like to make jokes about.

I guarantee if he actually got in, nobody would care.

Not that it matters though, it's certainly not happening in this game. He's already an AT, and was used as the shining example of "a character that can't make it" by Sakurai himself.

If he was truly beloved, he would be in the game since Brawl.

which is totally why a huge amount of people play as him in spin-offs and want him playable in smash

Everyone cares about smash reveals. everyone would care if he was revealed as playable. Hence why he already has a smash fanbase.

If he was truly beloved, he would be in the game since Brawl.

so I guess every character not in smash isnt beloved. Just beacasue Sakurai doesnt want him doesnt mean he isnt beloved. that is a terrible example.

 

[Burruni]

He's not this character that people would actually play as though.

He is a character people like to make jokes about.

I guarantee if he actually got in, nobody would care.

Not that it matters though, it's certainly not happening in this game. He's already an AT, and was used as the shining example of "a character that can't make it" by Sakurai himself.

If he was truly beloved, he would be in the game since Brawl.

I'm sorry.

What credentials do you have to judge if people would play him or not? That nobody would care?

 

[Dinoman96]

Of course Waluigi has his fans. So does Ashley. But that doesn't mean either of them should be playable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He's not this character that people would actually play as though.

He is a character people like to make jokes about.

The two are mutually exclusive?

I enjoy playing as Waluigi because I find him funny. That's a pretty common opinion.

What do you define as a character people actually want to play? What is your logic here?

I guarantee if he actually got in, nobody would care..

He topped Smash polls.

That's just wrong.

If he was truly beloved, he would be in the game since Brawl.

You can say this about literally anyone.

Regardless, **** this notion that smash fans have that imply that a series or character isn't worthwhile if they aren't playable characters in Smash.

I hate it.

 

[ChikoLad]

which is totally why a huge amount of people play as him in spin-offs and want him playable in smash

Everyone cares about smash reveals. everyone would care if he was revealed as playable.

Carry on, my wayward son...

Also how can you prove a "huge" amount of people play as him in spin-offs? I rarely see him in MK8 online. Heck, Waluigi is statistically in the BEST CLASS in the game in MK8. Yet nobody uses him. When people want to play that class, they always pick Rosalina or Link, maybe DK on occasion. I never see Waluigi though. And when I do, it's only 1 per race.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Carry on, my wayward son...

Also how can you prove a "huge" amount of people play as him in spin-offs? I rarely see him in MK8 online. Heck, Waluigi is statistically in the BEST CLASS in the game in MK8. Yet nobody uses him. When people want to play that class, they always pick Rosalina or Link, maybe DK on occasion. I never see Waluigi though. And when I do, it's only 1 per race.

Did you just use an anecdote as evidence?

 

[Burruni]

Carry on, my wayward son...

Also how can you prove a "huge" amount of people play as him in spin-offs? I rarely see him in MK8 online. Heck, Waluigi is statistically in the BEST CLASS in the game in MK8. Yet nobody uses him. When people want to play that class, they always pick Rosalina or Link, maybe DK on occasion. I never see Waluigi though. And when I do, it's only 1 per race.

I'm sorry.

But what does Pac-Man's reveal have anything to do about people caring about characters getting revealed? Because A lot of people got HYPED over Pac-Man even if he was leaked.

 

[False Sense]

He's not this character that people would actually play as though.

He is a character people like to make jokes about.

I guarantee if he actually got in, nobody would care.

I guarantee that if Waluigi actually got in, a significant number of people would care.

If he was truly beloved, he would be in the game since Brawl.

Shall I list every fan-favorite character that hasn't made it into Smash for one reason or another?

 

[ChikoLad]

Did you just use an anecdote as evidence?

When everyone has the same anecdote, yes, it counts.

I'm sorry.

But what does Pac-Man's reveal have anything to do about people caring about characters getting revealed? Because A lot of people got HYPED over Pac-Man even if he was leaked.

>"HEY GUYS I LOVE PAC-MAN HE OLD SKOOL AND 2COOL HE SHOULD BE IN SMASH"
>"OH HEY HE'S IN THAT'S GREAT"
>game comes out
>barely anyone plays as him, even casually
>his amiibo is now more common than some amiibos that were produced more than him, because nobody is buying it
>in Europe, they straight up barely produced any amiibos of him because they knew nobody would buy him, while Sonic and Mega Man, and IKE, actually got a decent amount. Even Pit and Captain Falcon were better produced.

"People care about Pac-Man."

I guarantee that if Waluigi actually got in, a significant number of people would care.



Shall I list every fan-favorite character that hasn't made it into Smash for one reason or another?

I wouldn't mind you saying this, only I gave you the benefit of the doubt on this exact same point pre-release with Pac-Man. You said the exact same thing with him.

And look what happened.

 

[Burruni]

When everyone has the same anecdote, yes, it counts.



>"HEY GUYS I LOVE PAC-MAN HE OLD SKOOL AND 2COOL HE SHOULD BE IN SMASH"
>"OH HEY HE'S IN THAT'S GREAT"
>game comes out
>barely anyone plays as him, even casually
>his amiibo is now more common than some amiibos that were produced more than him, because nobody is buying it
>in Europe, they straight up barely produced any amiibos of him because they knew nobody would buy him, while Sonic and Mega Man, and IKE, actually got a decent amount. Even Pit and Captain Falcon were better produced.

"People care about Pac-Man."

was garbage.

I rarely see played but it doesn't mean people don't care about them, and that's just newcomers of this game.

Edit: Following this logic, & are some of the absolute best choices for Smash.

 

[False Sense]

I wouldn't mind you saying this, only I gave you the benefit of the doubt on this exact same point pre-release with Pac-Man. You said the exact same thing with him.

And look what happened.

You mean that a number of people play him on both a casual and competitive level, and that his presence on the roster is, for many, a dream come true?

 

[A Distant Demon]

When everyone has the same.

anecdote, yes, it counts.



>"HEY GUYS I LOVE PAC-MAN HE OLD SKOOL AND 2COOL HE SHOULD BE IN SMASH"
>"OH HEY HE'S IN THAT'S GREAT"
>game comes out
>barely anyone plays as him, even casually
>his amiibo is now more common than some amiibos that were produced more than him, because nobody is buying it
>in Europe, they straight up barely produced any amiibos of him because they knew nobody would buy him, while Sonic and Mega Man, and IKE, actually got a decent amount. Even Pit and Captain Falcon were better produced.

"People care about Pac-Man."



I wouldn't mind you saying this, only I gave you the benefit of the doubt on this exact same point pre-release with Pac-Man. You said the exact same thing with him.

And look what happened.

Pac man was one of my most wanted. But I hate his moveset.
Paluitena and little mac were my 2nd and third most wanted. But I hate macs playstyle and palutena's without customs so I dont play them. But Ill be damned if I am not happy they are plaayable.

Same reason im happy, and basically everyone, is happy that pac man is playable

saying people dont care about pac man is ignorant at best

 

[ChikoLad]

You mean that a number of people play him on both a casual and competitive level, and that his presence on the roster is, for many, a dream come true?

That just isn't true. I actually know some of the most ardent Pac-Man fans you'll meet, and even they won't try to deny that he's a character people just bandwagoned for who ultimately isn't that popular, definitely not in Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mega Man isn't popular in competitive play and lots of people don't like his playstyle. Remember how everyone went "OH MY GOD IT'S MEGAMAN! THEY PUT MEGA MAN IN! THEY CARE FOR MEGA MAN!" Besides, lots of people were expecting Pac-Man, scratch that, people expected Pac-Man to be in. The thing is, Pac-Man got in as Namco worked on the game. Characters like Mega Man and Sonic got in solely on fan popularity. Hell, almost everyone said that they'd prefer Lloyd or some other Namco character

 

[Burruni]

Mega Man isn't popular in competitive play and lots of people don't like his playstyle. Remember how everyone went "OH MY GOD IT'S MEGAMAN! THEY PUT MEGA MAN IN! THEY CARE FOR MEGA MAN!" Besides, lots of people were expecting Pac-Man, scratch that, people expected Pac-Man to be in. The thing is, Pac-Man got in as Namco worked on the game. Characters like Mega Man and Sonic got in solely on fan popularity. Hell, almost everyone said that they'd prefer Lloyd or some other Namco character

Was Pac-Man as popular as our 2 other present 3rd Parties? No.

But is he friggin iconic and people were & still are happy that he's in Damn straight.

 

[ChikoLad]

Was Pac-Man as popular as our 2 other present 3rd Parties? No.

But is he friggin iconic and people were & still are happy that he's in Damn straight.

They didn't show it with their wallets...

And he's one of the only characters there was a noticeable "WHY IS HE HERE?" outcry for at all, mainly the younger fans.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Was Pac-Man as popular as our 2 other present 3rd Parties? No.

But is he friggin iconic and people were & still are happy that he's in Damn straight.

I remember lots of people who didn't want Pac-Man (myself included) who were joyed that they used his Pac Man World design

They didn't show it with their wallets...

And he's one of the only characters there was a noticeable "WHY IS HE HERE?" outcry for at all, mainly the younger fans.

...Smash 4 is the best selling Wii U game to date, and the 3DS version has even more sales...What are you saying with "They didn't show it with their wallets?"

Want to know why? Kids. Are. Dumb. They want characters like Eren Jaeger, Kirito, Goku, Ben 10, etc.

 

[False Sense]

And he's one of the only characters there was a noticeable "WHY IS HE HERE?" outcry for at all, mainly the younger fans.

One of the ONLY characters?



Don't even kid yourself.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am just happy that Pac-Man is in the game. I liked the original game, Ms. Pac-Man, Pac-Attack, Pac-Mania, and Pac-Man World 2.

 

[Burruni]

They didn't show it with their wallets...

And he's one of the only characters there was a noticeable "WHY IS HE HERE?" outcry for at all, mainly the younger fans.

"Why is he here" Outcry....



Those curveballs are a fair amount of what Smash Bros is founded on.

 

[ChikoLad]

I remember lots of people who didn't want Pac-Man (myself included) who were joyed that they used his Pac Man World design

...Smash 4 is the best selling Wii U game to date, and the 3DS version has even more sales...What are you saying with "They didn't show it with their wallets?"

Want to know why? Kids. Are. Dumb. They want characters like Eren Jaeger, Kirito, Goku, Ben 10, etc.

I'm talking about Pac-Man's Amiibo. It hasn't sold very well at all.

Keep in mind that Amiibos usually are always sold out day one unless they are the really common ones. Pac-Man isn't even really common, yet, he's still easy to buy in the US and Japan. Europe straight up got none of him, probably because nobody actually cares about him here.

 

[Johnknight1]

That's funny, because I actually enjoy Murasame Castle more than the original Zelda. In fact, I don't really even like the first Zelda that much, but I understand it was influential. Murasame Castle was much more fun for me, even if it was almost impossibly hard. I wouldn't say it's a bad game at all, it's just probably not your thing. The game demanded a lot from the player, and you had to basically be perfect if you wanted to beat it, but I kind of find that fun in it's own kind of way. Hard game? Yes. Bad game? I don't think so.

Enjoyment doesn't mean "better." The game has a tedious and linear design. It also has certain mechanics that are way too strong. While you may think "man, this game is hard," if you exploit one particular mechanic and the way the game flows linearly, it's too easy to beat. And yes, that linearity makes it even easier. That is non-intuitive bad game design. If you want to beat the game without much challenge, you just use one mechanic, otherwise, yes, it is very, very hard.

If it were well made, it wouldn't be easy with any specific one-track tactics, and it would have a moderate difficulty if you adjusted how you played and used a variety of tactics. You know, like how the original Legend of Zelda functions?

(For the record, I have speed run experience in both games)

I would like 's new F-Smash if the move just came out quicker.

So like the Wario boot, aka the Project M fSmash=???

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm talking about Pac-Mans Amiibo. It hasn't sold very well at all.

Keep in mind that Amiibos usually are always sold out day one unless they are the really common ones. Pac-Man isn't even really common, yet, he's still easy to buy in the US and Japan. Europe straight up got none of him, probably because nobody actually cares about him here.

Pac-Man isn't that popular of a character, not to mention that there isn't much you can do with him. Also, I haven't seen a Pac-Man amiibo in my country. Not even on our version of ebay, which has the likes of Shulk, Lucina, Villager, WFT, etc. You're comparing one of the most popular Mario characters to a character not a lot of people really liked

 

[A Distant Demon]

I cant believe we are arguing about pac man's popularity.

one of the top contender's in popularity and most beloved characters and one of the father's of gaming. . .

like what?

 

[Baskerville]

So like the Wario boot, aka the Project M fSmash=???

In terms of speed, yeah.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm talking about Pac-Man's Amiibo. It hasn't sold very well at all.

Keep in mind that Amiibos usually are always sold out day one unless they are the really common ones. Pac-Man isn't even really common, yet, he's still easy to buy in the US and Japan. Europe straight up got none of him, probably because nobody actually cares about him here.

Unless you have actual sales data that proves this, you can't prove that Pac-Man's not selling. Just because you can find him doesn't mean that people aren't buying him, otherwise Link would be the worst selling Amiibo right now.

 

[Starcutter]

I didn't like pac man before his reveal because of this

Spoiler

but him in smash is alright.

 

[Johnknight1]

Am I seriously reading a comparison of Waluigi's situation to Pac-Man's situation?

No, just no. Say what you will good or bad about Waluigi, but he didn't change gaming. Pac-Man did.

Pac-Man made gaming mainstream. And not just mainstream, but something of a global obsession. It was such an obsession it that was cool. The game Pac-Man was so mainstream, so global, and so cool that the first major American record holder for Pac-Man got a letter of congratulations from then-U.S. President Ronald Reagan.

Pac-Man additionally is, according to several polls, more recognizable and/or popular than any gaming character, including Mario, Pikachu, and Sonic.

So yeah, Pac-Man's reveal was a big deal. Pac-Man is easily the most well-known newcomer in Smash 4, and it isn't even close.

 

[ChikoLad]

One of the ONLY characters?



Don't even kid yourself.

The only one's there who got a noticeable one were Greninja and WFT. Everyone else was well received. Some small backlash =/= a big one.

Rosalina's reveal trailer has the second most amount of "Yeahs" of all of Sakurai's Miiverse posts, and is one of the only two to pass the 19,000 Yeahs mark (it has over 21,000).

The other post is the group shot of the big four, but that's appreciating the sentiment of them being there TOGETHER, not by principle. Pac-Man's "need" to be in Smash Bros was based on the existence of other characters, not his own merits. Personally, I think he deserved it on his own merits, but most other people didn't.

So statistically, Rosalina is Miiverse's favourite character reveal, and Pac-Man was liked more IN RELATION to three other characters, than on his own merits (as his reveal post didn't receive near the amount of Yeahs):