Character Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

And they will NOT add that many.

For instance my #1 is Viridi. I shouldnt need to tell why she is impossible.

Pessimists! Pessimists everywhere!

 

[ChikoLad]

first of all one post != an entire community. That is textbook cherrypicking.

The other problem? he is basically right. a character with no votes is not going to happen and the vote essentially does go to waste.

its honestly a case of an investment. If i invest in character A i do like who has plenty of votes they might get in. Now I do like character B more. But character B has various issues that make them unlikely/impossible. It would be better for me and others to compromise with what can be done and pick character A to vote for.

For instance my #1 is Viridi. I shouldnt need to tell why she is impossible. So ive spent more time and effort voting for Wonder red, who I do love and actually may have even the smallest of a chance.

Those are extreme examples. I'm just talking in general. It should be pretty obvious a character that has an NPC role won't make it as playable in this game.

Also this is a stickied thread in the community, it's being put on a pedestal as if it's the bible of this community, or an important message, when it isn't. And I know, from experience, that the Smash speculation community exists to dictate what people should ask for, which is stupid.

People should just vote for who they love (within the few barriers that do exist). That way, natural selection runs it's course.

 

[Wolfie557]

These guys can see the future apparently!

Why do people even try to claim the maximum amount of characters Sakurai will make? It's pointless, as long as Nintendo wants to keep supporting Smash, they will continue to add more content, regardless of whatever made up rules the Smash community tries to assign them.

But did I do that?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Actually is anyone else going to take a crack at a prediction of the full roster with all the DLC characters included?

I feel like this could be good fun. Like the old days but with less bloodshed.

 

[Curious Villager]

Considering how open the Ballot is, I don't see why you can't lend some support to both character A and B. I mean, the vast majority of people voting on the ballot are voting multiple times anyway......

 

[A Distant Demon]

People should just vote for who they love (within the few barriers that do exist). That way, natural selection runs it's course.

and people ARE. thats the point. but just because someone loves a character doesnt mean they are likely. or have a chance for that matter. especially if they arent popular. its why we have been arguing character likelihood this whole time and you are taking it like we hate unpopular characters. WE dont. They are just unlikely.

Pessimists! Pessimists everywhere!

I prefer realism. because we both know she isnt happening. even if I voted for her multiple times.

 

[Fatmanonice]

...he's replying to me as much as I'm replying to him. It's a debate. I'm not calling him names or flaming him, and he's not doing such things either. And what we're talking about pertains to characters.

But multiple people were putting him down for the same thing. I'm fine with debates but when you have multiple people against someone with an unpopular opinion or a different perspective, it gets one sided really quickly, This is really no different from how things typically went down with Diddy Kong and Smashchu in the speculation days.

Add in: My original comment wasn't against you. As far as I'm concerned, if you can count on more than one hand the number of people arguing against a single person, it's time for someone to back off.

 

[Wolfie557]

Actually is anyone else going to take a crack at a prediction of the full roster with all the DLC characters included?

I feel like this could be good fun. Like the old days but with less bloodshed.

I'll do it in list form:
*non-dlc characters*, Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Wolf, King K. Rool, Waddle Dee, Inkling. After this point it's too hard to predict if there will be more. For all I know could be someone as unlikely as Bayonetta or Medusa.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Those are extreme examples. I'm just talking in general. It should be pretty obvious a character that has an NPC role won't make it as playable in this game.

Also this is a stickied thread in the community, it's being put on a pedestal as if it's the bible of this community, or an important message, when it isn't. And I know, from experience, that the Smash speculation community exists to dictate what people should ask for, which is stupid.

People should just vote for who they love (within the few barriers that do exist). That way, natural selection runs it's course.

Um..., and until recently (to my knowledge)

I prefer realism. because we both know she isnt happening. even if I voted for her multiple times.

True Viridi isn't very likely, but it's not a 0% chance of her inclusion either. If and are able to jump out of their dead franchises and join Smash, then Viridi has a chance however small it may be.

 

[ChikoLad]

Actually is anyone else going to take a crack at a prediction of the full roster with all the DLC characters included?

I feel like this could be good fun. Like the old days but with less bloodshed.

Without listing those that are already in the game/on the verge of coming out, and ballot winners, the characters I think we will very likely get as DLC, REGARDLESS of the ballot's existence, are:

Ryu: Self explanatory.

Roy: Self explanatory.

Wonder Red: Platinum Games have been teasing a new game lately to be revealed at Nintendo's Digitial Event next week. They have also given clues that hints at it being a sequel to W101. That combined with all of the W101 content in the game already, just makes me think he's incredibly likely.

Wolf: Star Fox hype is building up, and a lot of people were gutted by Wolf not showing up. I think he's a lot like Mewtwo, they just couldn't get him in on time but have every intention of getting him in.

Rayman: We have Rayman trophies already, he's incredibly iconic, Ubisoft is one of the only third parties who even tried to support Nintendo, and of course he got a lot of hype after Artsy Omni fooled us all. Might need a bit more of a push due to being a third party, but I think he may not even need the ballot.

Um..., and until recently (to my knowledge)


True Viridi isn't very likely, but it's not a 0% chance of her inclusion either. If and are able to jump out of their dead franchises and join Smash, then Viridi has a chance however small it may be.

I mean within Smash itself. Viridi is already an NPC in both versions of Smash 4, so she is not going to be a DLC fighter. Same for Assist Trophies and Bosses. They already have their role in the game.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Um..., and until recently (to my knowledge)

in the context of smash.
as
in AT or boss
its why Ridley and the AT wont be playable. not that they arent playable in their own games. Unless you are joking in which case I blame the internet

Without listing those that are already in the game/on the verge of coming out, and ballot winners, the characters I think we will very likely get as DLC, REGARDLESS of the ballot's existence, are:

Ryu: Self explanatory.

Roy: Self explanatory.

Wonder Red: Platinum Games have been teasing a new game lately to be revealed at Nintendo's Digitial Event next week. They have also given clues that hints at it being a sequel to W101. That combined with all of the W101 content in the game already, just makes me think he's incredibly likely.

Wolf: Star Fox hype is building up, and a lot of people were gutted by Wolf not showing up. I think he's a lot like Mewtwo, they just couldn't get him in on time but have every intention of getting him in.

Rayman: We have Rayman trophies already, he's incredibly iconic, Ubisoft is one of the only third parties who even tried to support Nintendo, and of course he got a lot of hype after Artsy Omni fooled us all. Might need a bit more of a push due to being a third party, but I think he may not even need the ballot.



I mean within Smash itself. Viridi is already an NPC in both versions of Smash 4, so she is not going to be a DLC fighter. Same for Assist Trophies and Bosses. They already have their role in the game.

the wondeful 101 content is probaly just becaus eit was easily ported modles. there wasnt a whole lot of work for it. I still think the "oh my god" part implie it wont be W102 especially after it bombed so hard.

 

[N3ON]

But multiple people were putting him down for the same thing. I'm fine with debates but when you have multiple people against someone with an unpopular opinion or a different perspective, it gets one sided really quickly, This is really no different from how things typically went down with Diddy Kong and Smashchu in the speculation days.

I certainly understand intervening when things begin to verge into little more than flaming, and I'm all for not beating a dead horse, but if he's in here defending his points the horse isn't really dead, is it?

 

[ChikoLad]

in the context of smash.
as
in AT or boss
its why Ridley and the AT wont be playable. not that they arent playable in their own games. Unless you are joking in which case I blame the internet

the wondeful 101 content is probaly just becaus eit was easily ported modles. there wasnt a whole lot of work for it. I still think the "oh my god" part implie it wont be W102 especially after it bombed so hard.

But we got music as well though.

Also the original not doing well in sales really doesn't mean a whole lot to big, rich companies:

 

[FalKoopa]

To be fair, BluePikmin has been debating/arguing in two different threads on two different topics. He probably is tired...

 

[Baskerville]

I guess it's too much for some to simply, well, not bother.

 

[A Distant Demon]

But we got music as well though.

Also the original not doing well in sales really doesn't mean a whole lot to big, rich companies:

sonic is a huge gaming icon

wonder red is a economic failure.


look W101 is my 3rd favorite game ever but one example doesnt mean that its a good idea especially when the example you chose is from a company that loves to milk things.

 

[A10theHero]

But we got music as well though.

Also the original not doing well in sales really doesn't mean a whole lot to big, rich companies:

In SEGA's defense, only the Sonic Boom video games tanked. The show, comics, etc. have done decently well. And they have a different company developing this game, so it's not like they're repeating the exact same mistake again.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

in the context of smash.
as
in AT or boss
its why Ridley and the AT wont be playable. not that they arent playable in their own games. Unless you are joking in which case I blame the internet

I mean within Smash itself. Viridi is already an NPC in both versions of Smash 4, so she is not going to be a DLC fighter. Same for Assist Trophies and Bosses. They already have their role in the game.

Ah. That makes more sense. However. (If we're not still talking about Viridi then ignore me) These characters cannot be included due to confusion of who is the CPU, and who is the player. Viridi appears waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay in the background, I don't think people are going to be like: "Woah! I'm huge and in the background!" and then die because of it. Also, is both a platform and a character (because you won't get confused as to why you suddenly became 8-bit.)

I certainly understand intervening when things begin to verge into little more than flaming, and I'm all for not beating a dead horse, but if he's in here defending his points the horse isn't really dead, is it?

I know it's a saying but it sounds morbid when you put it like that. lol.

In SEGA's defense, only the Sonic Boom video games tanked. The show, comics, etc. have done decently well. And they have a different company developing this game, so it's not like they're repeating the exact same mistake again.

Give the characters their original design back (Or at least Knuckles) and I will be happy with it.

 

[A10theHero]

Give the characters their original design back (Or at least Knuckles) and I will be happy with it.

It's just a side series, so you can play Sonic Runners or whatever new main series game is being developed if you want the original designs.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Same for Assist Trophies and Bosses. They already have their role in the game.

Little Mac was an Assist Trophy, remember this. ;P

Just because someone already has a role on a stage doesn't automatically make them invalid character picks; otherwise, everyone should have just given up on Toon Link after the Spirit Tracks stage was revealed. Or how we have two characters with the name Donkey Kong in the same game, one of whom is a stage hazard. If they were obscure characters that probably wouldn't sell as DLC like, say, Donkey Kong Jr. (as in the one from the actual game, not the DK from DKC ), then that'd be a more damning flaw. As it is, I really can't see someone like Ridley failing as DLC.

Besides that, Smash is about as canonically strict as Mario Party. Bowser never uses laser guns in the main Mario games, for instance. Zero Suit Samus never had rocket heels. Mewtwo, despite being one of the heaviest playable Pokémon in Smash at 269 pounds, is somehow far lighter than the 119 pound Lucario. Hell, you can make a character fight themselves up to seven times over! Smash pays lipservice to canon in trophy bios and that's about it (oh, and did I mention Ridley's trophy bio almost exclusively mentions his Pyrosphere gimmicks outside of one line?). If we can have eight Bowsers fighting to the death, we can deal with a slightly (notice I said slightly) shrunk Ridley, especially if it's anything better than that godawful duckfaced miniboss.

Seriously, look at Ridley's head in the Pyrosphere whenever he roars, it's basically just a big duckface. And the primary antagonist to Samus herself deserves more than to be a glorified miniboss that behaves like it was programmed in a single lunch break.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's just a side series, so you can play Sonic Runners or whatever new main series game is being developed if you want the original designs.

Oh ok.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Little Mac was an Assist Trophy, remember this. ;P

that was brawl. this is smash 4.

oh, and did I mention Ridley's trophy bio almost exclusively mentions his Pyrosphere gimmicks outside of one line?

but that one line and what games it states he comes from says more than enough

and regardless sakurai has said he does not want to make Ridley playable. He doesnt see it as feasible. So he isnt going to do it. The end.

 

[ChikoLad]

sonic is a huge gaming icon

wonder red is a economic failure.


look W101 is my 3rd favorite game ever but one example doesnt mean that its a good idea especially when the example you chose is from a company that loves to milk things.

Sonic Boom: Shattered Crystal was the worst selling handheld Sonic game (and one of the worst selling Sonic games in general) ever. Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice is a direct sequel to that coming out way before the critical backlash to the Sonic Boom games (well mainly the Wii U one) has even subsided, and exactly a year after the original.

Compare that to W101, which although it also sold poorly, it at least has gained popularity through Smash, and was critically very well received anyway. It warrants one more try. And putting a character from Smash in it as a fighter would boost it's popularity even more.

In SEGA's defense, only the Sonic Boom video games tanked. The show, comics, etc. have done decently well. And they have a different company developing this game, so it's not like they're repeating the exact same mistake again.

So kids and adults will just keep watching the show and ignore the game.

Personally I think it actually looks like a good game and Shattered Crystal was not terrible either, but most people are blinded by the Wii U game.

Little Mac was an Assist Trophy, remember this. ;P

Just because someone already has a role on a stage doesn't automatically make them invalid character picks; otherwise, everyone should have just given up on Toon Link after the Spirit Tracks stage was revealed. Or how we have two characters with the name Donkey Kong in the same game, one of whom is a stage hazard. If they were obscure characters that probably wouldn't sell as DLC like, say, Donkey Kong Jr. (as in the one from the actual game, not the DK from DKC ), then that'd be a more damning flaw. As it is, I really can't see someone like Ridley failing as DLC.

Besides that, Smash is about as canonically strict as Mario Party. Bowser never uses laser guns in the main Mario games, for instance. Zero Suit Samus never had rocket heels. Mewtwo, despite being one of the heaviest playable Pokémon in Smash at 269 pounds, is somehow far lighter than the 119 pound Lucario. Hell, you can make a character fight themselves up to seven times over! Smash pays lipservice to canon in trophy bios and that's about it (oh, and did I mention Ridley's trophy bio almost exclusively mentions his Pyrosphere gimmicks outside of one line?). If we can have eight Bowsers fighting to the death, we can deal with a slightly (notice I said slightly) shrunk Ridley, especially if it's anything better than that godawful duckfaced miniboss.

Seriously, look at Ridley's head in the Pyrosphere whenever he roars, it's basically just a big duckface. And the primary antagonist to Samus herself deserves more than to be a glorified miniboss that behaves like it was programmed in a single lunch break.

Little Mac was an Assist trophy in Brawl and was promoted in the sequel. That's different.

However, Viridi, Ridley, etc, are not going to be DLC fighters. Simply put, if they wanted to put them in Smash 4 as fighters, they would have done it to begin with.

 

[Schnee117]

Time to stop lurking me thinks

Little Mac was an Assist Trophy, remember this. ;P

Just because someone already has a role on a stage doesn't automatically make them invalid character picks; otherwise, everyone should have just given up on Toon Link after the Spirit Tracks stage was revealed. Or how we have two characters with the name Donkey Kong in the same game, one of whom is a stage hazard. If they were obscure characters that probably wouldn't sell as DLC like, say, Donkey Kong Jr. (as in the one from the actual game, not the DK from DKC ), then that'd be a more damning flaw. As it is, I really can't see someone like Ridley failing as DLC.

Besides that, Smash is about as canonically strict as Mario Party. Bowser never uses laser guns in the main Mario games, for instance. Zero Suit Samus never had rocket heels. Mewtwo, despite being one of the heaviest playable Pokémon in Smash at 269 pounds, is somehow far lighter than the 119 pound Lucario. Hell, you can make a character fight themselves up to seven times over! Smash pays lipservice to canon in trophy bios and that's about it (oh, and did I mention Ridley's trophy bio almost exclusively mentions his Pyrosphere gimmicks outside of one line?). If we can have eight Bowsers fighting to the death, we can deal with a slightly (notice I said slightly) shrunk Ridley, especially if it's anything better than that godawful duckfaced miniboss.

Seriously, look at Ridley's head in the Pyrosphere whenever he roars, it's basically just a big duckface. And the primary antagonist to Samus herself deserves more than to be a glorified miniboss that behaves like it was programmed in a single lunch break.

Little Mac was an assist trophy in Brawl. He got promoted in this game.
Ridley has himself a role in this game, his trophy has Other M Ridley and appearances listed as games Clone Ridley wasn't in and Sakurai's said his piece on him. Even if I disagree I've moved on from it. Ridley has a snowball's chance in Hell for getting into Smash 4 as DLC. Time to accept that really.

However that's not to say you can't vote for him because the Ballot also effects future titles though Sakurai has already acknowledged Ridley's popularity.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

but that one line and what games it states he comes from says more than enough

and regardless sakurai has said he does not want to make Ridley playable. He doesnt see it as feasible. So he isnt going to do it. The end.

0/10 doesn't start with "Once upon a time"

 

[A Distant Demon]

However, Viridi, Ridley, etc, are not going to be DLC fighters. Simply put, if they wanted to put them in Smash 4 as fighters, they would have done it to begin with.

I find it hilarious you just berated me about not voting for popular characters but now are saying that predetermined characters have no shot.

I honestly dont feel like arguing about W102 because it isnt even on topic on the first place. . .

 

[Deleted member]

Actually is anyone else going to take a crack at a prediction of the full roster with all the DLC characters included?

I feel like this could be good fun. Like the old days but with less bloodshed.

Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Wolf, and King K. Rool. Nothing more, nothing less and I am willing to seriously bet on this (within reasons).

 

[ChikoLad]

I find it hilarious you just berated me about not voting for popular characters but now are saying that predetermined characters have no shot.

I honestly dont feel like arguing about W102 because it isnt even on topic on the first place. . .

How is it ironic? I didn't even berate for that, I just disagreed that we should vote for what community figureheads, or anyone else tells us to vote for. Just follow our hearts.

However, characters that already have a clear, expansive role in the game/s, are not going to be DLC. If Sakurai wanted Viridi playable and could come up with a moveset for her, I'm sure he would have made her playable from the get go, especially since she's his personal favourite Uprising character. Same goes for any other NPCs.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I guess it's too much for some to simply, well, not bother.

I'd prefer people bother and come up with something that's interesting to discuss even if it's spectacularly wrong.

At least Blue put forth something to critique which spawned all this conversation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Wolf, and King K. Rool. Nothing more, nothing less and I am willing to seriously bet on this (within reasons).

Well someone doesn't expect much. lol

 

[A Distant Demon]

However, characters that already have a clear, expansive role in the game/s, are not going to be DLC.

neither are unpopular characters. but according to you I shouldnt "follow my heart" for Ridley or Viridi.

 

[ChikoLad]

neither are unpopular characters. but according to you I shouldnt "follow my heart" for Ridley or Viridi.

But I never mentioned anything about popularity, that was you. Why are you shoving the word in my face?

 

[Deleted member]

Well someone doesn't expect much. lol

A couple of months ago I was expecting 8-9 characters. But I've decided that it's best to take the five "Marios" as face value and use Occam's Razor; five remaining DLC characters after Mewtwo.

I'm not pessimistic thought, because I don't anticipate anything good if I'm pessimistic.

 

[A Distant Demon]

But I never mentioned anything about popularity, that was you. Why are you shoving the word in my face?

excuse me I did misread one of your posts.
but you did say this

I hope you realise that I'm saying people should vote for who they want

I'd much rather vote for characters I want, rather than the characters the community thinks make sense.

if ridley and viridi are the characters I want then I should be able to vote for them, regardless of whether you think or the community "thinks makes sense" (in your own words)

yet you, after berating me, then proceeded to berate Viridi and Ridley.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

that was brawl. this is smash 4.

Yes, but still we all know Little Mac ONLY got into Smash 4 via fan demand, specifically in the West. If Ridley gets similar demand, they'll have to reconsider on it at some point, no matter what Sakurai has stated. Money is money, after all. And if Ridley fighter = big bucks, they'll do it.

It makes sense from a business perspective, and if the Revolution does it's job well enough, Sakurai's tune could completely change his mind on it.

but that one line and what games it states he comes from says more than enough

For casual fans, maybe; but to fans of the character, it comes off as not nearly enough. A trophy of the character should focus on the character, not the gimmicks it's role has in the game. That's like making a King K.Rool boss, and it's trophy only has "Donkey Kong's arch nemesis and leader of the Kremlings" in regards to the character, with the entire description otherwise being all about his gimmicks as a stage boss.

and regardless sakurai has said he does not want to make Ridley playable. He doesnt see it as feasible. So he isnt going to do it. The end.

He also didn't see Villager as feasible, even outright stating that Villager would be ill-suited for Smash. A few years later, guess who's among the first newcomers revealed for Smash 4? Villager. Sakurai can say they won't work, but that can always change later on. Opinion is subjective, and can be changed, after all.
And we're already working on making Sakurai aware of the complaints about Ridley's role in a professional manner. I don't doubt that Sakurai will change his tune when he sees how determined we are to see this majorly requested Metroid villain become a playable character. It'd be one thing to simply have a lot of votes in a ballot, but it's a totally different beast to have fans of this character send a full, exhaustive book on how much they want Ridley as a fighter right to Nintendo and Sakurai himself. That usually indicates that you have a lot of support.

 

[A Distant Demon]

. And if Ridley fighter = big bucks, they'll do it.

Ridley would already make big bucks. sakurai knew he was popular. He even said he knew he was. nothing has changed. He doesnt have to do anything he doesnt want

He also didn't see Villager as feasible, even outright stating that Villager would be ill-suited for Smash. A few years later, guess who's among the first newcomers revealed for Smash 4? Villager. Sakurai can say they won't work, but that can always change later on. Opinion is subjective, and can be changed, after all.

well it hasnt been a few years later has it now?
is it possible he will change his mind? yes. but he specifically went on record to say why Ridley will not be playable after making Ridley a boss. He isnt going to do that and instantly do a 180 when nothing has changed. maybe a subtle and slow nagging feeling will slwoly be brought to the front of his mind of how to make him playable by smash 5, but the idea isnt going to pop into his head and all of a sudden we have Ridley.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A couple of months ago I was expecting 8-9 characters. But I've decided that it's best to take the five "Marios" as face value and use Occam's Razor; five remaining DLC characters after Mewtwo.

Not sure what this means except that you ultimately decided to ultimately decided to lower your expectations.

 

[Wolfie557]

In SEGA's defense, only the Sonic Boom video games tanked. The show, comics, etc. have done decently well. And they have a different company developing this game, so it's not like they're repeating the exact same mistake again.

it does look better this time imo.

 

[AncientTobacco]

Considering how open the Ballot is, I don't see why you can't lend some support to both character A and B. I mean, the vast majority of people voting on the ballot are voting multiple times anyway......

I guess I'm the only one here who has only sent in one vote.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not sure what this means except that you ultimately decided to ultimately decided to lower your expectations.

Occam's Razor is that the simplest solution is the most likely one.

It's a flawed concept as many solutions as quite complicated.

Here, Fuzzy is just saying that since there were six Marios, there will be six characters.