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This sort of thing doesn't come off as entirely pleasant.
I think taking it to the level of the Koopalings may be a bit too much, but I could see something along the lines of Alph working out well (assuming they aren't made into last-minute clones like Lucina was).
We've got the placeholders in the 3DS version, and I believe those are all pre ballot characters (Mewtwo, Lucas, Ryu, Roy, Wolf, and someone else). So, 6 pre ballot characters. Depending on how long they support Smash DLC, it's possible we could get more ballot characters then pre ballot.
well there was that one time. . .I don't think I really have a mean tone here, I'm sure I didn't insult anyone here.
The issue is a lot of those lords, even with swords, fought fairly differently.
I fully admit that I absolutely LOATHE Bowser Jr as a character but he's one of my favorite characters in SSB4 because of the Koopaling ALTs and I want to see this implemented more. For example, I also like the idea of all the Pikmin captains being mashed into one character or Paula/Ninten finally being tied in with Ness.
Which means they would get sperate voice clips which makes me wonder, what would Paula and Ninten sound like?
You could replace the Bat with a frying pan, but then there's the yoyo, just for starters.
Which is true but most of Ness''s PK attacks are hers to begin with so there's that.
I had this idea a while ago. Thinking of it now, I'm not sure it'd work out so well in practice; you'd basically be typecasting every Lord that isn't Ike / Roy as a traditional swordfighter, which they certainly are not.
If that's possible I guess. But I don't think Sakurai would make any changes like that for alts.
Some Lords, sure. But some others, not really.
I'm speaking realistically. It doesn't take a formal statement to see Toad probably isn't happening at this point.
I stand by what I said. There are reasons to make them DLC, but I believe there are better reasons from Nintendo's perspective to hold on to them until the next title. Also that first point doesn't really mean that much. It's not whether it's a new IP or not, it's how that IP is received. There are plenty of Nintendo IPs that fall by the wayside, though granted few come from EAD.
Or they'll just release characters that can stand on their own, like the existing ones.
The problem is if you pick unlikely choices you have to keep in mind that they are unlikely choices. Choosing unlikely characters and acting like they're likely doesn't exactly give off the most credible impression.I'm just bringing it up as a noticeable possibility, not saying "my" characters are likely to happen really.
I rather go pick unlikely choices really, because it's boring to play it safe and eventually it'll be proven wrong very easily, I like taking risks.
Oh, from an empirical perspective, you're absolutely right. I wasn't decrying your statement so much as I was curious as to whether Sakurai had ever officially debunked Toad as a viable candidate.
Just cause she has a pretty calm personality doesn't mean she couldn't do what Ness does, she just does it while being calmer than Ness, though since Smash is supposed to be a fun thing for the characters maybe she would be excited to join the fun too
Was Treasure Tracker that successful? I honestly don't know, but I don't think it did that great. Not terrible or anything... just... not great. Regardless, I def could see Captain Toad recurring from time to time, but he'll still have nothing on regular Toad. I'd personally rather have that Toad and several other Mario characters before Captain Toad.
According to Sakurai's opinion on alts. They need to behave exactly the same way as the character they are an alt of. If they get any tweaks, no matter how minor it is. They will get their own roster slot as a clone. This is mostly done for the sake of keeping battle records as accurate as possible. Hence why I thought she'd probably make a more accurate alt with Lucas rather than Ness.
I should clarify, I'm being hypothetical when I say "successful"; as in, if Treasure Tracker in itself does become a successful series, then the Cap would have something to work with. I agree it's a bit too early to say for certain that he's a shoo-in for a future Smash project, but he seems to have the potential to at least get his stubby fungoid foot in the door.
The other thing to note, though, is that Lucina, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario originally WERE this. They then decided that making some minor changes to differentiate them late in development to keep them more to character wouldn't hurt much, but they could decide to change them back again later as well.
I wasn't trying to do that the whole time, just bringing up that they have a chance because there are people here who just flat-out say certain characters have no chance here, which is un-true.
It was still a nice debate though.
That could be one option, but they can also do a discounted bundle deal with an unpopular character in addition so that they can sell well.
I think most people will concede that such characters have at least a small chance.
I suppose so. Although in the end. I think I'd rather she just gets included as her own character so she can actually be portrayed more accurately to the way she is as well as use her weapons such as the frying pan and all.
I agree with this viewpoint as well.
That's an idea...
I dunno about that. As a huge YLink fan that would rather see him in over TLink, there's not much he can do in the game other than be a Link clone which has been taken be TLink and his MM moveset is restricted by 3DS limitations.
They are ways around it, like how Sonic turns into his ball form in certain attacks, like how Pac-Man turns into his classic form in his recovery/side-B/N-Air, and how Kirby turns into his stone form with Down-B. It doesn't have to be a full-on transformation, just make it temporary and it can work out pretty well.
That would be a tad bit difficult for him to do that no? I mean the transition between his MM masks would be a bit awkward if that were to happen.
Would the Pikmin Captains work? I mean Charlie, The president, and Louie have very different body types from Olimar, Alph, and Brittany. Also seeing as how they aren't in vehicles you can't fudge the proportions, because with them if it's not a matter of height it's a matter of width. Louie being the tallest, while Charlie is muscular and the therefore wide; same goes for the Pres, but he's wide due to being hefty.
Yes.
as the original plan for DLC was a MASSIVE support Veteran whose moveset remained fairly-to-mainly unique who remained as a major factor to his series. and were quite differentiated clones with some of the largest outcries of any cut character. and remain very unique characters hand-chosen by Sakurai for specific purposes but have steep issues between the two. and were two less popular thirds to the most unique as a whole character Smash had seen yet, . is one of the more polarizing veterans to be brought back as DLC but still holds several matters that kept him unique including the entire blade having different the basis of where the sweet and sourspots were that kept his playstyle more up front and aggressive to the more spacing-heavy variant held. has his weird little gimmick. He has his role as a joke character. An underdog for veteran DLC for almost every ground. but giving them an overhaul to their moveset and, frankly, playstyle that turns them into more of a Newcomer.
I'd think it look natural, Shulk brings up his Monado from his back very quickly every time he's using it for an attack, it's just a matter of getting used to it.
I wouldn't really call it alienating since Toon Link already has a very similar playstyle to Young Link and people can just use him if they need it.Yes.
It can. And would be a creative way of getting around the problem.
And the point of bringing back a veteran is bringing the moveset that they had more than anything else, judging by Sakurai's interviews and talking about not wanting to alienate players of veterans.
Having a more MM inspired moveset, including one I saw on your thread of keeping the fire aerials, the directional specials being the 3 other form masks, and then taking various other changes to the standard moves, would be this weird and un-matched situation of bringing back a
IDK, I suppose it can work maybe. YLink's popularity has to be big enough for that to happen though. If Sakurai is true to his word about getting as much as DLC as possible, I don't think it's as unlikely as people might make it out to be.I'd think it look natural, Shulk brings up his Monado from his back very quickly every time he's using it for an attack, it's just a matter of getting used to it.
I'd like the Bombchu idea if MM3D isn't being used for moves.
I wouldn't really call it alienating since Toon Link already has a very similar playstyle to Young Link and people can just use him if they need it.
The only moves that are getting changed really are just the special moves.
From, my moveset, The Side-B is basically the boomerang, only two small versions of them are thrown in the air.The Neutral-B remains the same. The only two moves that need adjusting would be his Down-B and Recovery. He's still the light-weighted somewhat powerful Young Link he's always been, only with a few new tools. It's not a drastic change to his playstyle really.
I don't see how Lilina would work that well as a Robin alt considering the fact that she's strictly a mage, not a mage knight. Frankly, Celica is a better option, since she's a mage knight as well (Swords and Magic), and it represents another branch of FE. Leif and Anna are, additionally, better choices for Robin, though Celica is the best.
This is a good breakdown, really.My brother and I were discussing the different types of clone character, and we've devised this essential "clone tier list" for defining the distinct strata of clones. Note that this is very much a subjective perspective and just something we did for fun. If you have any issues with it, please feel free to mention them, just remember that this is not intended to be an authentic quantification of a character's inherent "cloneness". In descending order, from least clone-like to most clone-like, we have:
F TIER - NOT EVEN A CLONE
Very vague similarities in certain areas (character model, a small number of standard attacks), but otherwise totally distinct. Not even remotely a clone, though sometimes jokingly or fallaciously compared to one.
E TIER - LUIGIFIED CLONE
A character that was originally a clone of an existed character, but whom has since evolved into their own character. They may possess certain similarities in terms of moveset elements (for example, Luigi's neutral-b and up-b are variations of Mario's), but their overall playstyle and stats are so vastly different as to render the term "clone" largely redundant. In short: once a clone, and a clone no longer.
D TIER - SEMI-CLONE
A character with a few noticeable similarities to their original counterpart, yet whose differences are distinct enough to separate them and render them mostly unique. Most often, their specials are similar in concept to the original character's, yet they have different applications and almost all of their standard moves are unique or at least function differently. Their stats are also usually quite different.
C TIER - NOT QUITE FULL CLONE
A character whose overall moveset is very similar to the original character's, yet whose unique moves are enough to set them apart. Their specials are, for the most part, almost identical, and they have many standard moves of a similar nature as well; what moves they have of their own, while few, are nevertheless distinct enough to stand out of their own accord. Their stats are also usually very different, offering a totally unique playstyle.
B TIER - ALMOST FULL CLONE
A character whose moveset is almost identical to the original character's, with only a few key differences setting them apart. Essentially, they're somewhere in between C tier and A tier: not quite identical, yet not that different. Usually it's only a few subtle moveset differences and / or stat alterations that set them apart.
A TIER - FULL CLONE
A character whose abilities are only very subtly distinct from the original character's. Their moveset and stats are, overall, unaffected, with only very minor differences setting them apart.
The "Luigified" thing is principally about de-cloning, but Luigi is maybe the character that show this is his major glory, creating the "derivate character" most different from the original source, having in general a completely different play style but still share moves with the original one.
