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Character Discussion Thread

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Fatmanonice

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But you also have to consider that most of those people probably want Ice Climbers AS THEY ARE. Ice Climbers were never a big thing for Nintendo. They were popular more for how they played, not who they were. If they bring back the Ice Climbers but completely change how they played, I'd say most of those fans would probably hate it. Honestly, I don't think many would argue "Ice Climbers no matter what it takes."


Ice Climbers were liked for the dual character gameplay mechanic being extremely viable in the metagame. When people vote for Ice Climbers, they're assuming Ice Climbers as they've played in past games.



I'm not denying that people want them back. But you're trying to make an invalid argument, because "SoPo" is something only being suggested by a small minority and it doesn't exist except in concept.


Plus, do recall that these lists say Ice ClimberS.
There would still be two of them but they may be separate or in summon form or maybe they can hammer (see what I did there?) out a solution that makes both work together. Both Nana and Popo would still exist in the form of ALTs, afterall. As I mentioned, their viability was largely because of chain grabs and wobbling and they're noticeably different without them. Separate from that, I don't think most fans would really care that much if they changed because god knows characters like Falco and Marth still have legions of fans despite being practically crippled in this game. Granted, some competitive players might be irked but that's just simply the ebb and flow of things and people learn to adjust from game to game. Look at Pikachu, for example. He's gone from god-like to painfully bad to decent to really good again and Kirby players have either moved on or simply adjusted to the changes. Yes, people like the characters but the characters wouldn't really be going anywhere. At the end of the day, it's kind of inconsequential anyways because they're likely to come back in Smash 5 anyways but the point is that there is enough people who want them back in some form in this game and I can see it happening.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Oh you mean that one enemy from a minigame in Super Star?

Yeah let me know when that stops becoming Sakurai's likely opinion of him.
"Isaac isn't playable because he was an Npc in Dark Dawn" Something I fear hearing that this relates too
Oops!

*Looks around*

Exit beats lances.

*Smoke Bombs away*

Speaking about Smoke Bombs, how bout that Takamaru?
I consider Takamaru a shoe in next time
 

Kenith

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Yes, you are.

What, you think I don't about that game? You wound me.
I have wanted Jill and a Queen Zenobia stage since before Smash 4 was ever released.
Oh, right, that zombie from the first game. Certainly an iconic character.
Zombie for Smash 4 DLC.
Moveset:
Bite: A multi-hitting bite like (Wario's)
Acid Bile: projectile vomit that acts as a projectile
Zombie Dog: Zombie sends out a zombie dog to pounce on enemies
Crow: Zombie grabs onto a zombie crow and flies up
Final Smash: Crimson Head: Zombie turns red and gains claws and the ability to run

You're welcome.
 

WeirdChillFever

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What, you think I don't about that game? You wound me.
I have wanted Jill and a Queen Zenobia stage since before Smash 4 was ever released.

Zombie for Smash 4 DLC.
Moveset:
Bite: A multi-hitting bite like (Wario's)
Acid Bile: projectile vomit that acts as a projectile
Zombie Dog: Zombie sends out a zombie dog to pounce on enemies
Crow: Zombie grabs onto a zombie crow and flies up
Final Smash: Crimson Head: Zombie turns red and gains claws and the ability to run

You're welcome.
Remembers me of an old Chain Chomp moveset somebody made:

B: Bite
Side B: Bite to the Side
Up B: bite upwards
Down B: Bite down
Final Smash: Bite Hard
 

Fatmanonice

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On the exhaustive topic of the Ice Climbers, I don't think I've heard many people say that they would absolutely not accept the Ice Climbers as separate or summons. I've heard a few people say they wouldn't like it (myself included) but I've heard most of those people say they'd roll with it just to have the Ice Climbers back. It's not the ideal situation but I would still pay for them anyways if it was just "Ice Climber" with Nana Alts. Again, I feel the situation is the same as other characters who have changed, the biggest fans will just stick with them anyways while other people will just move on. To loop around, I haven't heard many people speak absolute outrage and scream heresy over the Ice Climbers getting a major reworking for this game if they were DLC. That's sort of the thing too, if the fans don't like the changes, they don't have to download them so only the people who actually want them will be effected in the long run anyways.
 

BaganSmashBros

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Idea: Piggyback in team battles. The player who gets mounted on basically becomes Gogoat. Example of what could happen, Ganondorf riding on Sonic, he does Warlock Punch and Sonic runs to enemies. Drawback is both players take some extra damage
...
...
...Imagine Bowser or Dedede riding Olimar/Kirby...It won't help, but people will do that.
There would still be two of them but they may be separate or in summon form or maybe they can hammer (see what I did there?) out a solution that makes both work together. Both Nana and Popo would still exist in the form of ALTs, afterall. As I mentioned, their viability was largely because of chain grabs and wobbling and they're noticeably different without them. Separate from that, I don't think most fans would really care that much if they changed because god knows characters like Falco and Marth still have legions of fans despite being practically crippled in this game. Granted, some competitive players might be irked but that's just simply the ebb and flow of things and people learn to adjust from game to game. Look at Pikachu, for example. He's gone from god-like to painfully bad to decent to really good again and Kirby players have either moved on or simply adjusted to the changes. Yes, people like the characters but the characters wouldn't really be going anywhere. At the end of the day, it's kind of inconsequential anyways because they're likely to come back in Smash 5 anyways but the point is that there is enough people who want them back in some form in this game and I can see it happening.
People want Ice Climbers. Not Popo and Nana. They want them as they always were. Nerfs and buffs don't really matter. Chain grabbing wasn't the reason they were liked anyway.
But completly reworking a character is a different thing. Its a very bad idea when its not asked for and even worse when character reworked is liked only because of how that character was done before and not because of who they are. For example, Ganondorf being Ganondorf saved him from being completly avandoned in SSBB. If he would be "that one guy from whatever that game was called" (like Ice Climbers), you wouldn't see him getting used or staying for SSB4. Hell, i doubt IC would be included if Sakurai wouldn't like their concept since Ice Climber franchise died shortly after Super Mario Bros. release or even earlier.
I don't think this is going anywhere.
Remembers me of an old Chain Chomp moveset somebody made:

B: Bite
Side B: Bite to the Side
Up B: bite upwards
Down B: Bite down
Final Smash: Bite Hard
I made a better moveset for The Baby that this. Gotta dig it up though.
 
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N3ON

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"Isaac isn't playable because he was an Npc in Dark Dawn" Something I fear hearing that this relates too
The difference being that theory really has no evidence past pure speculation while it's pretty evident Sakurai pays little attention to everything that's happened in the Kirby series past Air Ride.
 

Burruni

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Oh you mean that one enemy from a minigame in Super Star?

Yeah let me know when that stops becoming Sakurai's likely opinion of him.
Return to Dreamland got :4kirby: a new final smash, trophies and music in Smash 4... its grounds for him to at least be "That one 4th player character in Kirby."

Ballot Popularity is a bit of a long shot, I'm well aware.

But with the series using BanD as an established, nonrecurring, and major character... we have hopes. Being a major character in more than 2 Kirby games is something that very few can hold grounds to. We can hope. And really that's all that anyone can do for a character at this stage.
 

N3ON

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He did have involvement with Amazing Mirror iirc, explains why that game got a remixed track
Well there is the odd bit of content here and there from post-Air Ride, most notably Kirby's FS. But it's clear where Sakurai stands on content from the series regardless.

Also, y u no see joke?
prolly cuz this is text and there was no emoticon or nuffin
 

Wintropy

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It's interesting to think how contextually-sensitive and ever-shifting the Smash roster is. Things change, old characters are usurped, new fighters join the fray in their stead, nothing is predictable and everything is open to interpretation, dissection, interjection and intervention; for better or for worse, it really is impossible to predict, and it's amazing just how different things could hypothetically be if anything was even a little bit altered. From the unexpected arrival of Ness and Captain Falcon in 64 to the clones of Melee, the Forbidden Seven of Brawl and the promoted alts of Smash 4, nothing is expected and everything is subject to the whims of Sakurai.

With that in mind, here's a fun game~

Let's suppose that Melee's development took a decidedly different turn. Rather than expand the roster with last-minute clones, Sakurai decided to go with his original plan and add Dedede as a playable fighter. In this hypothetical scenario, this is our roster:

:mariomelee::luigimelee::peachmelee::bowsermelee::yoshimelee::dkmelee::linkmelee::zeldamelee::sheikmelee::pikachumelee::jigglypuffmelee::mewtwomelee:
:kirbymelee::dedede::foxmelee::nessmelee::falconmelee::marthmelee::icsmelee::gawmelee:

Consequently, these characters never appeared in Smash:

:drmario::falcomelee::ganondorfmelee::pichumelee::roymelee::younglinkmelee:

How would this have affected future rosters? Would clones even be a recurring thing at this point, since Luigi (initially the only true clone) had been altered substantially in this game? Would Ganondorf have appeared in Brawl? Would Fire Emblem still be the breakout success it is?

Personally, I think it would affect Brawl's development in a number of subtle, yet not indistinct ways:

- Ganondorf would likely be a top candidate for a potential newcomer, as Twilight Princess demonstrated that he is indeed here to stay. Consequently, he would no doubt have a unique moveset, probably based around the use of a sword with some magic. This may have affected Ike's playstyle slightly, as Sakurai thought Ike would make a good "heavy" swordfighter, or Ike could have come first and Ganondorf would be considered a low-priority newcomer, and it's possible (albeit hilariously ironic) that Ganondorf could have ended up as an Ike clone. This is presuming Fire Emblem took off at all: if it didn't, Ike very likely wouldn't be a thing, leaving Ganondorf to fill the niche and round out the Zelda cast.

- Meta Knight would have been top priority if Dedede was already in the roster. Not much change there.

- Wolf would probably have stuck around, as he ended up being different enough from Fox that they wouldn't be considered true clones. It's also likely that Falco would appear as a newcomer and inherit what would be Wolf's moveset, in an ironically appropriate rehash of what actually happened in Melee. Either way, I think we'd only see one and not the other.

- Lucas would probably be safe. He was added because of Mother 3 hype, and as long as Ness exists, I don't think that'd change.

- Toon Link may or may not have appeared, and he may or may not have his own moveset if he didn't essentially inherit Young Link's playstyle. It's also very likely he just wouldn't have appeared at all, or he could be added due to Wind Waker's success as a semi-clone.

- The Forbidden Seven likely wouldn't exist as we know it: Doc and Roy wouldn't have existed in the first place, and Tetra / Toon Zelda would be in an obscure situation, considering Toon Link may not even have existed in this case. It's also possible they would represent Wind Waker in place of Toon Link, so it's just as vindicated to say that their chances would actually be better as a result. It's difficult to say how Mewtwo would have been affected - since I can't imagine it was clones that kept him out, I'd say he'd still be scrapped, unless Sakurai felt like there weren't enough characters to beef up the roster.

And as for Smash 4's development:

- Lucina and Dark Pit more than likely wouldn't be separate characters, as Doc's Melee playstyle was one of the big reasons they were separated in the first place. It's also possible that, without Doc, alternate characters wouldn't exist, which means Alph wouldn't exist either.

- If Wolf was added over Falco, he'd probably be in the base roster. If Falco was added over Wolf, I don't think Wolf would really be considered to the same extent. Alternatively, with Star Fox U on the horizon, he could gain massive fan support for DLC (as he is right now) and would be considered as a brand new character with a new moveset. Lucas would remain unaffected.

- Let's imagine that Ganondorf and Ike were both in Brawl: even if they weren't true clones of each-other in that game, I think they would see some tweaks here and there to distinguish them further in this game, and Ganondorf would probably get a slight aesthetic overhaul like Ike did to introduce elements of Demise to his overall appearance. If Fire Emblem was a success and Ike was added in Brawl, Robin would no doubt be safe. I can't imagine this would help Chrom's chances at all, though: if anything, it'd damn him even more harshly, as he'd then have two heavyweight swordfighters to contend with, further reducing him to an "unoriginal swordfighter" role.

- Mewtwo would either be in or out depending on his appearance in Brawl, and I think either way, future DLC would be unaffected: they'd probably just have another "ultra-hype" character as the poster boy for DLC.
 

BaganSmashBros

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If we can have Inkling Costumes get past the stingy ESRB despite terrifying designs, bleh. Bleh I say
That can't really be compared. Thats a matter of design.
or Ike could have come first and Ganondorf would be considered a low-priority newcomer, and it's possible (albeit hilariously ironic) that Ganondorf could have ended up as an Ike clone. This is presuming Fire Emblem took off at all: if it didn't, Ike very likely wouldn't be a thing, leaving Ganondorf to fill the niche and round out the Zelda cast.
Disagree with that. LoZ already was a very succesful franchise and FE was and still is nothing compared to it. So, Ganondorf, who pretty much is Ganon, would certainly have more priority. FE would be one of those obscure japanese franchises without Melee anyway, so, it would be even worse.
 
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N3ON

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Return to Dreamland got :4kirby: a new final smash, trophies and music in Smash 4... its grounds for him to at least be "That one 4th player character in Kirby."

Ballot Popularity is a bit of a long shot, I'm well aware.

But with the series using BanD as an established, nonrecurring, and major character... we have hopes. Being a major character in more than 2 Kirby games is something that very few can hold grounds to. We can hope. And really that's all that anyone can do for a character at this stage.
Didn't get one for Bandana Dee though, did it?

I'm aware there's new Kirby content in Smash, but if you want to stack the pre and post-Sakurai departure Kirby content in Smash next to each other, it's pretty evident where Sakurai lies.

I agree disregarding Sakurai's bias Bandana Dee would obviously be the next in line, but we've never gotten a character, stage, or even AT from a Kirby game Sakurai didn't work on, so... it's probably not as obvious as people think it is. And looking at the Kirby trophies in Smash 4 (both versions), you know how many we got from post-Sakurai content? Four, including Kirby's FS trophy. Doesn't paint the best picture, does it?
 
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So you're going to make Wesker as slow as Falcondorf?

CHRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS what are you thinking?!

For that, I will not give you an egg.
protonjon fan I see
It's interesting to think how contextually-sensitive and ever-shifting the Smash roster is. Things change, old characters are usurped, new fighters join the fray in their stead, nothing is predictable and everything is open to interpretation, dissection, interjection and intervention; for better or for worse, it really is impossible to predict, and it's amazing just how different things could hypothetically be if anything was even a little bit altered. From the unexpected arrival of Ness and Captain Falcon in 64 to the clones of Melee, the Forbidden Seven of Brawl and the promoted alts of Smash 4, nothing is expected and everything is subject to the whims of Sakurai.

With that in mind, here's a fun game~

Let's suppose that Melee's development took a decidedly different turn. Rather than expand the roster with last-minute clones, Sakurai decided to go with his original plan and add Dedede as a playable fighter. In this hypothetical scenario, this is our roster:

:mariomelee::luigimelee::peachmelee::bowsermelee::yoshimelee::dkmelee::linkmelee::zeldamelee::sheikmelee::pikachumelee::jigglypuffmelee::mewtwomelee:
:kirbymelee::dedede::foxmelee::nessmelee::falconmelee::marthmelee::icsmelee::gawmelee:

Consequently, these characters never appeared in Smash:

:drmario::falcomelee::ganondorfmelee::pichumelee::roymelee::younglinkmelee:

How would this have affected future rosters? Would clones even be a recurring thing at this point, since Luigi (initially the only true clone) had been altered substantially in this game? Would Ganondorf have appeared in Brawl? Would Fire Emblem still be the breakout success it is?

Personally, I think it would affect Brawl's development in a number of subtle, yet not indistinct ways:

- Ganondorf would likely be a top candidate for a potential newcomer, as Twilight Princess demonstrated that he is indeed here to stay. Consequently, he would no doubt have a unique moveset, probably based around the use of a sword with some magic. This may have affected Ike's playstyle slightly, as Sakurai thought Ike would make a good "heavy" swordfighter, or Ike could have come first and Ganondorf would be considered a low-priority newcomer, and it's possible (albeit hilariously ironic) that Ganondorf could have ended up as an Ike clone. This is presuming Fire Emblem took off at all: if it didn't, Ike very likely wouldn't be a thing, leaving Ganondorf to fill the niche and round out the Zelda cast.

- Meta Knight would have been top priority if Dedede was already in the roster. Not much change there.

- Wolf would probably have stuck around, as he ended up being different enough from Fox that they wouldn't be considered true clones. It's also likely that Falco would appear as a newcomer and inherit what would be Wolf's moveset, in an ironically appropriate rehash of what actually happened in Melee. Either way, I think we'd only see one and not the other.

- Lucas would probably be safe. He was added because of Mother 3 hype, and as long as Ness exists, I don't think that'd change.

- Toon Link may or may not have appeared, and he may or may not have his own moveset if he didn't essentially inherit Young Link's playstyle. It's also very likely he just wouldn't have appeared at all, or he could be added due to Wind Waker's success as a semi-clone.

- The Forbidden Seven likely wouldn't exist as we know it: Doc and Roy wouldn't have existed in the first place, and Tetra / Toon Zelda would be in an obscure situation, considering Toon Link may not even have existed in this case. It's also possible they would represent Wind Waker in place of Toon Link, so it's just as vindicated to say that their chances would actually be better as a result. It's difficult to say how Mewtwo would have been affected - since I can't imagine it was clones that kept him out, I'd say he'd still be scrapped, unless Sakurai felt like there weren't enough characters to beef up the roster.

And as for Smash 4's development:

- Lucina and Dark Pit more than likely wouldn't be separate characters, as Doc's Melee playstyle was one of the big reasons they were separated in the first place. It's also possible that, without Doc, alternate characters wouldn't exist, which means Alph wouldn't exist either.

- If Wolf was added over Falco, he'd probably be in the base roster. If Falco was added over Wolf, I don't think Wolf would really be considered to the same extent. Alternatively, with Star Fox U on the horizon, he could gain massive fan support for DLC (as he is right now) and would be considered as a brand new character with a new moveset. Lucas would remain unaffected.

- Let's imagine that Ganondorf and Ike were both in Brawl: even if they weren't true clones of each-other in that game, I think they would see some tweaks here and there to distinguish them further in this game, and Ganondorf would probably get a slight aesthetic overhaul like Ike did to introduce elements of Demise to his overall appearance. If Fire Emblem was a success and Ike was added in Brawl, Robin would no doubt be safe. I can't imagine this would help Chrom's chances at all, though: if anything, it'd damn him even more harshly, as he'd then have two heavyweight swordfighters to contend with, further reducing him to an "unoriginal swordfighter" role.

- Mewtwo would either be in or out depending on his appearance in Brawl, and I think either way, future DLC would be unaffected: they'd probably just have another "ultra-hype" character as the poster boy for DLC.
No roy ever would make me sad. . . at least we are still getting him

no seperate DP/lucina would have been dissapointing as well

so there would be no more young link "true ganondorf" talk anymore as well.
not worth it for me.

Honestly star fox would be in the most awkward spot. falco and wolf would be big competitors. falco would have less popularity but it would still be huge but wolf would be much closer than he is now. I would expect one or the other to be low priority for Brawl. Now imagine how Krystal support would be. . .

also
I

Star Fox U on the horizon,
I see what you did thar
 

FalKoopa

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Let's suppose that Melee's development took a decidedly different turn. Rather than expand the roster with last-minute clones, Sakurai decided to go with his original plan and add Dedede as a playable fighter. In this hypothetical scenario, this is our roster:

:mariomelee::luigimelee::peachmelee::bowsermelee::yoshimelee::dkmelee::linkmelee::zeldamelee::sheikmelee::pikachumelee::jigglypuffmelee::mewtwomelee:
:kirbymelee::dedede::foxmelee::nessmelee::falconmelee::marthmelee::icsmelee::gawmelee:

Consequently, these characters never appeared in Smash:

:drmario::falcomelee::ganondorfmelee::pichumelee::roymelee::younglinkmelee:

How would this have affected future rosters? Would clones even be a recurring thing at this point, since Luigi (initially the only true clone) had been altered substantially in this game? Would Ganondorf have appeared in Brawl? Would Fire Emblem still be the breakout success it is?
Let's see

In Brawl,
  • Ganondorf would have been one of the most hyped newcomers alongside Wario and Meta Knight. No Falcondorf.
  • Falco might have been closer to Wolf in terms of how much of a clone he is.
  • Same for Toon Link. He certainly would have existed - he was one of the most requested Zelda characters for Brawl, although Ganondorf not being present already would have stolen some of his thunder.
  • Mewtwo might not have been cut, as no time would be spent on the Forbidden 7 except Dixie.

In Smash 4,
  • Dark Pit and Lucina might have stayed as costumes. Dr. Mario being separate in Melee was likely a big push towards giving them separate slots.
  • Mewtwo would have returned from Brawl.
  • Wolf may not have been added, given the lull in the series. Though he could be our first DLC newcomer.
That's all I can think of.

:231:
 
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Curious Villager

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Yeah, Toon Link was a pretty highly requested character among Japanese fans so he would have probably still come along with Ganondorf in Brawl. Especially considering by then Mario and Pokemon would have both had at least four characters so including Toon Link alongside Ganondorf wouldn't have been too much of a stretch for the Zelda franchise.
 

Burruni

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One thing to consider: If we have the "Dedede instead of 6" Scenario for Melee, it would have less additions to the roster than the original game. :bowsermelee:1 :peachmelee:2 :zeldamelee:(:sheikmelee:) 3(4) :mewtwomelee:5 :gawmelee:6 :icsmelee:7 :marthmelee:8 :dedede:9.

Due to this, Sakurai may have felt more pressured to really add characters in Brawl and end up creating new clones that were popular at the time to pad out the roster.

:4bowserjr:May have been a :pichumelee:/:younglinkmelee: with a paintbrush move for a side b and not much else to differentiate himself from his father.

Black Shadow may have been added as a new "Falcondorf"
 
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ElPanandero

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Yeah, Toon Link was a pretty highly requested character among Japanese fans so he would have probably still come along with Ganondorf in Brawl. Especially considering by then Mario and Pokemon would have both had at least four characters so including Toon Link alongside Ganondorf wouldn't have been too much of a stretch for the Zelda franchise.
There's a chance that if Toon Link was added, he'd get unique properties from Wind Waker instead of having to serve as a (poor) young link successor
 
D

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One thing to consider: If we have the "Dedede instead of 6" Scenario for Melee, it would have less additions to the roster than the original game. :bowsermelee:1 :peachmelee:2 :zeldamelee:(:sheikmelee:) 3(4) :mewtwomelee:5 :gawmelee:6 :icsmelee:7 :marthmelee:8 :dedede:9.
Actually, according to the findings of @PushDustIn the one character Sakurai would have put in if he had more time was Wario, not Dedede.
Kind of makes sense why he's the first Brawl newcomer in the partition data in hindsight.
 
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Diddy Kong

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If PushDustin is 100% right with Sakurai's character criteria, Dixie is probably one of the most likely characters now for DLC.
 

Kenith

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Actually, according to the findings of @PushDustIn the one character Sakurai would have put in if he had more time was Wario, not Dedede.
Kind of makes sense why he's the first Brawl newcomer in the partition data in hindsight.
Damn, beat me to it.By half an hour, but still.
But I guess it doesn't matter, the point was the choice of a unique character or six clones.

...honestly, I like @ Wintropy Wintropy 's hypothetical scenario over how it actually went down. Especially because Mewtwo most likely wouldn't have been cut.
 

Burruni

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Actually, according to the findings of @PushDustIn the one character Sakurai would have put in if he had more time was Wario, not Dedede.
Kind of makes sense why he's the first Brawl newcomer in the partition data in hindsight.
Damn, beat me to it.By half an hour, but still.
But I guess it doesn't matter, the point was the choice of a unique character or six clones.

...honestly, I like @ Wintropy Wintropy 's hypothetical scenario over how it actually went down. Especially because Mewtwo most likely wouldn't have been cut.
I know this was the case. I was running off of Wintropy's original posting with this premise. It was entirely a hypothetical so the distinction over which character was the one original was largely inconsequential to the approach on how Clones would be approached in later games.

Edit: Does anyone have an accurate Smash 4 weight chart of characters? There are a couple characters I am in dispute with a friend about their relative weight.
 
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Kenith

Overkill Sarcasm
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RipoffmanXKTG
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What, you think I don't about that game? You wound me.
I have wanted Jill and a Queen Zenobia stage since before Smash 4 was ever released.

Zombie for Smash 4 DLC.
Moveset:
Bite: A multi-hitting bite like (Wario's)
Acid Bile: projectile vomit that acts as a projectile
Zombie Dog: Zombie sends out a zombie dog to pounce on enemies
Crow: Zombie grabs onto a zombie crow and flies up
Final Smash: Crimson Head: Zombie turns red and gains claws and the ability to run

You're welcome.
In all seriousness...I am totally on board with a playable monster from Resident Evil instead of a character.
 
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Actually, what if Metroid had actually gotten a game on the N64 before Smash Bros. had come out? That might have affected the original roster pretty heavily; especially if Ridley was still there (which, at this point, he'd become something of a major antagonist).

Imagine if this was what we got in Smash 64:
:mario64::luigi64::dk64::link64::kirby64::pikachu64::yoshi64::samus64::fox64::falcon64::jigglypuff64::ness64::mewtwomelee::bowsermelee::dedede:(Ridley) (King K.Rool)

This is what we got in Melee:
:mariomelee::luigimelee::bowsermelee::peachmelee::yoshimelee::warioc::dkmelee: (King K.Rool):linkmelee::zeldamelee::sheikmelee::younglinkmelee::kirbymelee::samusmelee:(Ridley):foxmelee::falcomelee::falconmelee::nessmelee::gawmelee::icsmelee::pikachumelee::jigglypuffmelee::mewtwomelee::pichumelee::marthmelee::roymelee::dedede:

This is what we got in Brawl:
:mario2::luigi2::bowser2::peach::yoshi2::warioc:(:wario:):dk2::diddy:(King K.Rool) (Dixie Kong):link2::zelda::sheik::ganondorf::toonlink::kirby2::metaknight::dedede::samus2::zerosuitsamus:(Ridley):pit::pikachu2::jigglypuff::pt:(:charizard:/:squirtle:/:ivysaur:):lucario::mewtwopm::pichumelee::fox::falco::wolf::popo::marth::ike::roypm::olimar::ness2::lucas::rob::gw::sonic::snake:

And this is what we got in Smash 4:
:4mario::4luigi::4bowser::4peach::4yoshi::4wario2:(:4wario:):4bowserjr:(:4larry:/:4roy:/:4wendy:/:4iggy:/:4morton:/:4lemmy:/:4ludwig:) :4dk::4diddy:(King K.Rool) (Dixie Kong):4link::4zelda::4sheik::4ganondorf::4tlink::4kirby::4metaknight::4dedede::4samus::4zss:(Ridley) :4pit: (:4darkpit:) :4palutena: :4pikachu::4jigglypuff::4charizard::4greninja::4mewtwo::4lucario::pichumelee::squirtle: :ivysaur::4fox::4falco::wolf::popo::4marth:(:4lucina:):4myfriends::roypm::4olimar:(:4alph:):4ness::4lucas::4rob::4gaw::4sonic::snake::4shulk::4villager:(:4villagerf:):4wiifit:(:4wiifitm:)

That'd be pretty nice, assuming there were no cuts made. It'd make everyone happy.

And let's be honest, if Ridley was in the first Smash you know he'd never get the boot even if everyone wanted it. :p He'd be too much of a series staple at that point.
 
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