Character Discussion Thread

[Scoliosis Jones]

Roy is getting revealed at the concert. I have no doubt about that

 

[Fatmanonice]

are a technical issue that I don't think can be handled this time around without the sacrifice of who they are IN Smash... which partially defeats the purpose. Especially with Sakurai's words.

I think they would work better if they functioned like how they did in Melee, with Nana being super dumb. With the amount of debugging they've already done post release, I wouldn't put it past them to come up with a solution that doesn't "ruin" the character.

 

[Deleted member]

I always felt that their time passed when the buyout kept them out of Melee....

The buyout happened after Melee, though.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The buyout happened after Melee, though.

It did, but rumors of the buyout circled around and awful lot prior to that time. Just because the buyout happened after Melee doesn't mean it didn't keep them out. In fact I outright do believe it did, otherwise we should've had Diddy Kong (at least) in Melee as well.

 

[MagnesD3]

The mii inklings actually look like inklings though, that's the difference... This looks nothing like link except for it being a costume.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think they would work better if they functioned like how they did in Melee, with Nana being super dumb. With the amount of debugging they've already done post release, I wouldn't put it past them to come up with a solution that doesn't "ruin" the character.

Sakuri pulled together movesets for and, who had pretty much 0 moveset potential. And all of them work well for each character. I think Sakuri could make the Ice Climbers work. He just needs more time.

The mii inklings actually look like inklings though, that's the difference... This looks nothing like link except for it being a costume.

.......Still. I dunno. My problem with Inklings are: How do you make them not a clone of Mega Man?

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

They're about as much of a conflict of interest as Snake was in Brawl, honestly. For Banjo and Kazooie's credit, 3 of their 5 Nintendo appearances (Diddy Kong Racing, BK, and Banjo Tooie) are widely regarded as Nintendo classics and are original games. Snake's only recent Nintendo games are merely remakes.

Its not the same, microsoft is a competing hardware manufacturer, there is a far bigger conflict there then there ever would have been with snake who is konami owned and as fair game as any third party. And dont discount snakes games based on whether or not they are remakes, the thought that something like that would factor into their choice or grand outlook is thrown around far too much with little to nothing to back it up.

Theres nothing to say banjo couldnt join at all, since anything is possible, but those situations arent anywhere near the same.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sakuri pulled together movesets for and, who had pretty much 0 moveset potential. And all of them work well for each character. I think Sakuri could make the Ice Climbers work. He just needs more time.

.......Still. I dunno. My problem with Inklings are: How do you make them not a clone of Mega Man?

Yeah...don't worry about them being a Mega Man clone.

 

[BKupa666]

Yeah...worry about them being a Samus clone instead, heh.

Good times.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

By the by, if anybody here is a supporter of Snake, please come to the new revamped Snake thread (provided by @LIQUID12A ) and notify me to add you onto the support list!

 

[N3ON]

The mii inklings actually look like inklings though, that's the difference... This looks nothing like link except for it being a costume.

Unless they'd also play just like them, which they wouldn't, that doesn't really matter.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

That Mew was his equal in strength or at least close to it?
One of the very first things that the scientists tell Mewtwo when he breaks out of the tube is that he was created from Mew's DNA and was made stronger. He even boasts this to Mew itself.

Or that Mew would dodge his attacks?
Well, I'll give the first two Shadow Balls, as the first one almost hit Mew (it hit the bouncy bubble Mew was playing on) and the second one was before Mew started to dodge. But once Mew first teleported away from the second Shadow Ball, there's no excuse for Mewtwo to pretty much blindly throw them where he thinks Mew is (yes, that's what he did; before he fires the third, he states "Over there...?" in the original Japanese film while the dub keeps him silent) instead of doing what he did later and fire it while closing the gap between them and give Mew no time to dodge it.

Mewtwo is in a constant state of levitation in Smash, which pretty makes the concept of "weight" to be pointless (weight is the force of gravity exerted on an object; levitation defies gravity).
And then there's the fact that "weight" in Smash doesn't even refer to actual weight, but instead knockback resistance. Mewtwo has less of that due to that aforementioned constant state of levitation. This is the exact same reason Rosalina is so light (though through anti-gravity, not telekinesis).

Mewtwo's a lot faster than in Melee.

Response by sentence:
-Should have already been damn clear Mew would take effort to defeat.
-You literally restated a point I made before.
-Not only was Mewtwo aware Mew was capable of fighting back, he was questioning why it wouldn't (until it did). And stop bloody calling their fight "DBZ". It was nothing even remotely close to it.

Why? Because:
a. This isn't the damn anime.
b. Most characters would have a very hard time dodging and/or getting an actually decent hit in during an actual fight (i.e. not going by fighting game logic where anyone can manage to defeat anyone). Only scenarios like your proposed three on one fight would have any shot depending on who they are. Hell, in an actual fight scenario, only a select few could even permanently harm Ganondorf before he outright kills them due to the Triforce of Power. (Note, harm. That doesn't mean they couldn't send him flying off a battlefield if they had enough force)

Correction; they don't have projectiles in-game (except Bowser does WTF). Ganondorf has his own energy balls and Captain Falcon has the laser pistol he has holstered to his side.

At this point, the discussion is not even about Ridley anymore but going back and forth about Mewtwo (and I can only assume Ganondorf now). What point is there left in this?

Lets just restart the argument. It got stuck in endless loop.

If required for either balancing or to make character more unique, Sakurai can change any attribute/trait of a character or limit it, no matter how important it is. Examples:

• Ike's highest stat in the game is speed (if we will count what can be translated into Smash), but in SSB, its attack is the highest one and he is a slow character. Most likely done to avoid making him another fast swordsman or being both fast and strong. If thats the case, then his speed was limited and attack power was left alone since, well, he has a two-handed sword and he at looks like a very strong man, so, he must hit hard. Also, he is far from someone who will give no sympathy, but thats just as important as Marth more-or-less being attention seeker in Smash ("Minna, miteite kure!" or "Everybody, looks at me!").
• Pokemons have no type weaknesses, resistance, immunity, etc or anything that resembles that system even though its one of the most important parts of Pokemon games. The only exceptions are PT's pokemons (Charizard no longer has this kind of thing in SSB4, but he first appeared as a playable character in SSBB). That would be rather unfair though for either the pokemon (in case it has weakness to opponent's attack type) or opponent (in case its immune to opponent's type of attack), so, its not a bad choice.
• Mewtwo is slow (not as bad in SSB4, but still not enough) even though he is faster than Greninja in terms of both movement speed and attack speed. His overall speed is highest stat he has too...if we won't count Special base stat from G1. This choice wasn't that bad, but Sakurai went too far (again, im not counting SSB4 since Mewtwo first appeared in Melee and thats what matters here).
• Little Mac is weak due to his size (he wins because of his speed and ability to exploit opponents'...endlag or something...don't know how to call it, but its not just his strength), but hits like a tank in SSB4.
• Kirby and co. have limited amount of jumps. Meta Knight has excuse for that, but other two don't have any other than that it was done for balance. Kirby always had infinite jumps until Kirby 64's release (not as in he never had them ever again after that point and more like it was the first game to have a limit and before there was no such thing), but that game came out AFTER SSB64 (March 24, 2000 while SSB64 was released on January 21, 1999), so, it doesn't counts. Dedede never had a limit. Also, i should have pointed this out before to prove that there is a character with limited flight (not really flight, but very close) for no reasons outside of balancing purposes.

...you know what, you can just ignore everything i wrote in this post outside of last part of this post if you want. Either way, if required, Sakurai would limit his flight. He doesn't needs a reason for that outside of balancing reasons.

I think they would work better if they functioned like how they did in Melee, with Nana being super dumb. With the amount of debugging they've already done post release, I wouldn't put it past them to come up with a solution that doesn't "ruin" the character.

Thats not the main problem. Main problem was having possibility of 8 detailed models of a character being present at once and lagging the game to hell.

 

[Fatmanonice]

.......Still. I dunno. My problem with Inklings are: How do you make them not a clone of Mega Man?

Because they have guns? I will never understand this argument... it's not even the same type of gun. Not to mention that Megaman's buster converts to nine different weapons so unless the Inklings can summon a flame sword, a giant fist, a scythe, a buzzsaw, a leaf shield, a tornado, a tazer, a flame thrower, AND an attachable explosive, I don't think this will be an issue.

 

[Kenith]

I hope Roy's trailer involves the Koopaling somehow. I really do.
I ideally, the trailer starts with a short montage showing all the Fire Emblem characters, with the announcer calling their names, then it pans to Roy Koopa and he's like "..Roy?!".

Then it shows FE Roy charge his Blazer move and launch the Koopaling off the stage. Cue trailer.

 

[Curious Villager]

So first Megaman would be a Samus clone, now Inkling will be a Megaman clone? Seriously?

 

[Kenith]

Yeah honestly how do you come to the conclusion they'd be Mega Man clones besides the thought they both have weapons that go, "pew pew"?

They've already disconfirmed the only possible Mega Man clones ;_;

 

[MainJPW]

So first Megaman would be a Samus clone, now Inkling will be a Megaman clone? Seriously?

It never ends.

 

[JaidynReiman]

To be fair, some popular suggestions I think would be at the very least semiclones. Namely, Dixie and Impa.


I don't think any character would be a clone of a character from another franchise. They did that once, true, in the case of Ganondorf, and they've never done it again since then, and typically when they add new clones, they draw them from the same franchise. I also doubt Inklings would be a clone of anything; they've got enough material to go on.


In the cases of Dixie and Impa, I think people jump too quickly to the assumption they'd be 100% original, because they have numerous similarities to existing characters.


- Dixie
Much more blatant overall, since in the DKC games the characters all play the same anyway with subtle differences. If we use Diddy Kong as an example, he uses a bunch of generic moves and a couple of moves based on DK64. Dixie plays the same as Diddy in DKC2/DKL2 except for her hair glide. They'd probably go with the hair glide, but otherwise have her use moves based on DK/Diddy.

Having the potential to be 100% original does not mean it will happen. There's no way she can be a direct clone, but she can easily be a semiclone and still be 100% true to her character.


- Impa
Unlike Dixie, she's not too much of a blatant clone. The problem is, she's a complete and total blank slate, and since Impa most likely trained Zelda in Ocarina of Time, and Impa uses some ninja-like moves and looks more blatantly like a ninja in Skyward Sword, the comparison can't be helped. Without her getting completely rewritten in a future Zelda game, she probably would not be added as a 100% original character.



In the case of Dixie I actually want her to be a semiclone. She'd still be mostly original even if she just uses most of her attacks with her hair instead and borrows some moves from DK/Diddy.


In the case of Impa, I fully support her inclusion as the next Zelda character. I just doubt she'd be added as a wholly original character in any way, shape, or form, as the best example for the kinds of things she could do is already in the game. She could even be meshed over Sheik as an alt with little trouble (except maybe height).

 

[Wintropy]

In the case of Dixie I actually want her to be a semiclone. She'd still be mostly original even if she just uses most of her attacks with her hair instead and borrows some moves from DK/Diddy.

As long as she has the bubblegum gun instead of the Peanut Popgun and a hair twirl instead of a cartwheel, I'm good.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Again, I REALLY don't like Inklings, but them being clones? Did you bash your head against concrete

 

[memoryman3]

To be fair, some popular suggestions I think would be at the very least semiclones. Namely, Dixie and Impa.


I don't think any character would be a clone of a character from another franchise. They did that once, true, in the case of Ganondorf, and they've never done it again since then, and typically when they add new clones, they draw them from the same franchise. I also doubt Inklings would be a clone of anything; they've got enough material to go on.


In the cases of Dixie and Impa, I think people jump too quickly to the assumption they'd be 100% original, because they have numerous similarities to existing characters.


- Dixie
Much more blatant overall, since in the DKC games the characters all play the same anyway with subtle differences. If we use Diddy Kong as an example, he uses a bunch of generic moves and a couple of moves based on DK64. Dixie plays the same as Diddy in DKC2/DKL2 except for her hair glide. They'd probably go with the hair glide, but otherwise have her use moves based on DK/Diddy.

Having the potential to be 100% original does not mean it will happen. There's no way she can be a direct clone, but she can easily be a semiclone and still be 100% true to her character.


- Impa
Unlike Dixie, she's not too much of a blatant clone. The problem is, she's a complete and total blank slate, and since Impa most likely trained Zelda in Ocarina of Time, and Impa uses some ninja-like moves and looks more blatantly like a ninja in Skyward Sword, the comparison can't be helped. Without her getting completely rewritten in a future Zelda game, she probably would not be added as a 100% original character.



In the case of Dixie I actually want her to be a semiclone. She'd still be mostly original even if she just uses most of her attacks with her hair instead and borrows some moves from DK/Diddy.


In the case of Impa, I fully support her inclusion as the next Zelda character. I just doubt she'd be added as a wholly original character in any way, shape, or form, as the best example for the kinds of things she could do is already in the game. She could even be meshed over Sheik as an alt with little trouble (except maybe height).

Do you think her already being an item trophy in Smash Tour hurts her chances?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Do you think her already being an item trophy in Smash Tour hurts her chances?

I think it might very slightly, but in the long run I doubt it means much. I do think it means she probably was never planned prior to release at least. Unless Smash Tour was a last minute thing thrown together to just have another game mode, which I doubt.

 

[Curious Villager]

Do you think her already being an item trophy in Smash Tour hurts her chances?

As far as we know. DLC characters have no effect onto pre-existing trophies of said characters, carrying on their usual purposes. At least if Mewtwo is anything to go by. It's just there as usual. Even Mewtwo's Classic trophy just refers to him as just "Mewtwo" instead of something like "Mewtwo (DLC)" completely disregarding the existence of the other trophy.....

 

[A Distant Demon]

As far as we know. DLC characters have no effect onto pre-existing trophies of said characters, carrying on their usual purposes. At least if Mewtwo is anything to go by. It's just there as usual. Even Mewtwo's Classic trophy just refers to him as just "Mewtwo" instead of something like "Mewtwo (DLC)" completely disregarding the existence of the other trophy.....

this is a more specific case of the smash tour trophy. like porky and mecha fiora and doc louis etc. it has an affect in game unlike the lucas and mewtwo trophies so its not an exact same situation

although i do agree it wont mean anything in the long run.

 

[Curious Villager]

this is a more specific case of the smash tour trophy. like porky and mecha fiora and doc louis etc. it has an affect in game unlike the lucas and mewtwo trophies so its not an exact same situation

although i do agree it wont mean anything in the long run.

My point was that Mewtwo's inclusion didn't really pay much attention to the already existing trophy. Mewtwo's pre existing trophy still works the same way it always did by being obtained randomly either through the in-game shop or encountering it during regular play. Whilst it got a brand new trophy to be used for Classic mode.

So I think that if someone like Dixie Kong or Tetra made it in as DLC, that it wouldn't really effect their Smash Tour trophies much either in much the same way. Their pre existing trophies will work like they always do whilst they get brand new trophies for use for Classic mode, disregarding the existence of the pre-existing trophies much like Mewtwo does. The characters don't really interact much with them anyway, the Mii's do.

Hence why I don't really think it would effect them much either even if said trophies play a small extra role in one more game mode.

 

[Muster]

I think they would work better if they functioned like how they did in Melee, with Nana being super dumb. With the amount of debugging they've already done post release, I wouldn't put it past them to come up with a solution that doesn't "ruin" the character.

Nana's AI matches up with popo's % giving her the equivalent of level 9 when he gets to 180 (Kind of like Aura)

.......Still. I dunno. My problem with Inklings are: How do you make them not a clone of Mega Man?

You can legit add another mega man and have him not be a clone of mega man.

 

[Kamui Nohr]

After decided to finally watch all of Gurren Lagann, I think we need more drills in smash. Bowser Jr's Fsmash isn't enough! Jill? Her AT was removed

That show was on my mind when I was thinking of what Villager's other Final Smash should be.

: Giga Lloid Break
Something like this. (Gurren Lagann spoilers?)

 

[Ura]

I hope Roy's trailer involves the Koopaling somehow. I really do.
I ideally, the trailer starts with a short montage showing all the Fire Emblem characters, with the announcer calling their names, then it pans to Roy Koopa and he's like "..Roy?!".

Then it shows FE Roy charge his Blazer move and launch the Koopaling off the stage. Cue trailer.

I had something like that in mind only towards the end of the trailer.

The trailer would start off in the Coliseum stage only at night and it will show Ike beating up a bunch of characters. Roy will slowly walk towards the battlefield while not showing his entire body. Ike will take notice of him and Roy (in his Awakening attire) taunts; challenging him to a fight which leads to them both charging at each other and then the gameplay portion of the trailer happening (hopefully decloned).

The end of the trailer would have Roy taking notice of Roy Koopa and giving him a flare blade that sends him in to next week.

 

[Champ Gold]

Everyone is a clone of everyone except for &

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Everyone is a clone of everyone except for &

No, that is incorrect. Link, Fox, Ness, Mario, DK, Captain Falcon, Yoshi and Samus are Mario clones because they are either humans or humanoid, so, they totally are clones. Kirby is an exception because Sakurai. As for others, Jigglypuff is a Captain Falcon clone because f*** it, Pikachu is not a clone because lol top tier and Luigi is a completly unique character.

 

[Ura]

Psshh, everyone knows that the only non-clone in the entire series is Dark Pit.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I still think they're going to figure out something for the Ice Climbers, especially now that they're pretty much the only Melee veteran that hasn't been confirmed at this point. I don't count Young Link because of Toon Link and I don't count Pichu because Pikachu has some of the characteristics of Melee Pichu without the insufferable amounts of suck. As I noted in the Ice Climber thread, I kind of have a tin foil hat theory that they may be the reason why all the retro characters (ROB, Game and Watch, and Duck Hunt) haven't been announced yet (along with Falco to accommodate Wolf and Star Fox Wii U). Still, I think it would be mean spirited if they were the only ones that didn't find a way to come back.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Everyone is a clone of everyone except for &

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I like Bowser Jr. over his original counterpart Diddy Kong.

 

[Champ Gold]

Ever heard of sarcasm?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like Bowser Jr. over his original counterpart Diddy Kong.

? Down B summons something=clone?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

? Down B summons something=clone?

No, he has a chargable projectile as Neutral B, a burst movement thingy as Side B, explosions as Up B and a summonable object as Down B.

Total clones I tell ya.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I still think they're going to figure out something for the Ice Climbers, especially now that they're pretty much the only Melee veteran that hasn't been confirmed at this point. I don't count Young Link because of Toon Link and I don't count Pichu because Pikachu has some of the characteristics of Melee Pichu without the insufferable amounts of suck. As I noted in the Ice Climber thread, I kind of have a tin foil hat theory that they may be the reason why all the retro characters (ROB, Game and Watch, and Duck Hunt) haven't been announced yet (along with Falco to accommodate Wolf and Star Fox Wii U). Still, I think it would be mean spirited if they were the only ones that didn't find a way to come back.

Unlike anyone else, Ice Climbers are held back by system's limitations rather than just things that depend only on what Sakurai thinks. So, that won't happen. For 3DS version anyway. But since Sakurai has this bulls**t rule of "same characters for both versions", WiiU-exclusive IC won't happen either.

? Down B summons something=clone?

I really doubt that user was serious. And neither was rdg121193.

 

[Fatmanonice]

What I'm saying is that I think they'll do something to work around it or come up with a solution. A lot of people have already mentioned SoPo or Nana only coming out for certain attacks. Also, yes, I'm well aware that their problem isn't a quick fix.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

What I'm saying is that I think they'll do something to work around it or come up with a solution. A lot of people have already mentioned SoPo or Nana only coming out for certain attacks. Also, yes, I'm well aware that their problem isn't a quick fix.

Sakurai is not willing to change Ganondorf's moveset even though many want it to happen. I doubt he will want to change IC's moveset that much, especially when this is the last thing everyone wants to happen outside of them getting removed.