Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

Actually, what if Metroid had actually gotten a game on the N64 before Smash Bros. had come out? That might have affected the original roster pretty heavily; especially if Ridley was still there (which, at this point, he'd become something of a major antagonist).

Imagine if this was what we got in Smash 64:
(Ridley) (King K.Rool)

This is what we got in Melee:
(King K.Rool)(Ridley)

This is what we got in Brawl:
()(King K.Rool) (Dixie Kong)(Ridley)(//)

And this is what we got in Smash 4:
()(//////) (King K.Rool) (Dixie Kong)(Ridley) () ()()()()

That'd be pretty nice, assuming there were no cuts made. It'd make everyone happy.

And let's be honest, if Ridley was in the first Smash you know he'd never get the boot even if everyone wanted it. He'd be too much of a series staple at that point.

Yes. but as far I know he was never even in the running as a character in Melee, so it's not really worth dwelling on.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Yes. but as far I know he was never even in the running as a character in Melee, so it's not really worth dwelling on.

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee; and had there been a full Metroid game on the N64, not even that may have been an issue if he had gotten into the previous game.

Plus this is an entirely hypothetical scenario of which there was a N64 Metroid game that Ridley was a big part of, that got him into Smash 64, that made him a series veteran. Not even based on facts.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Actually, what if Metroid had actually gotten a game on the N64 before Smash Bros. had come out? That might have affected the original roster pretty heavily; especially if Ridley was still there (which, at this point, he'd become something of a major antagonist).

Imagine if this was what we got in Smash 64:
(Ridley) (King K.Rool)

This is what we got in Melee:
(King K.Rool)(Ridley)

This is what we got in Brawl:
()(King K.Rool) (Dixie Kong)(Ridley)(//)

And this is what we got in Smash 4:
()(//////) (King K.Rool) (Dixie Kong)(Ridley) () ()()()()

That'd be pretty nice, assuming there were no cuts made. It'd make everyone happy.

And let's be honest, if Ridley was in the first Smash you know he'd never get the boot even if everyone wanted it. He'd be too much of a series staple at that point.

I heavily doubt an n64 metroid game would have given us Ridley. metroid would still have been pretty small and well. . .size. and thats assuming Ridley would be in the game. If super metroid couldnt get him in i dont think a metroid 64 could unless it through some magic hit mario64 sucess.

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee; and had there been a full Metroid game on the N64, not even that may have been an issue if he had gotten into the previous game.

Plus this is an entirely hypothetical scenario of which there was a N64 Metroid game that Ridley was a big part of, that got him into Smash 64, that made him a series veteran. Not even based on facts.

nope. not true
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/

Not all characters that appeared in the intro movie for Melee were intended to join the fight according to the Japanese official site. Sorry Ridley, Wolf andSamurai Goroh fans.

jeez ive linked this article so many times. thanks PushDustin


so many gosh darn untrue rumors.

 

[Kenith]

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee; and had there been a full Metroid game on the N64, not even that may have been an issue if he had gotten into the previous game.

I'm really going to need a source on that.

 

[Burruni]

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee; and had there been a full Metroid game on the N64, not even that may have been an issue if he had gotten into the previous game.

Plus this is an entirely hypothetical scenario of which there was a N64 Metroid game that Ridley was a big part of, that got him into Smash 64, that made him a series veteran. Not even based on facts.

Please forward this information, with a source, to @ PushDustIn because clearly he missed that in his fairly comprehensive little history log on the unused found.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/the-definitive-unused-fighters-list-in-smash/ Here.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I'm really going to need a source on that.

That's why I put it in uncertain tense; I've been trying to find a source but am currently not able to.

If I can find a source to it (which I admit is really unlikely), I'll link it. But as it stands, it's a highly dubious bit of info that I'd really rather not want to spread misinformation about.

Unfortunately, all I've been finding on the topic is unsourced statements or unrelated material using the word "melee".

 

[Diddy Kong]

King K.Rool and Ridley on the N64 and Melee rosters... I'm trying my best to imagine it and it's pretty hilarious actually.

 

[Kenith]

King K.Rool and Ridley on the N64 and Melee rosters... I'm trying my best to imagine it and it's pretty hilarious actually.

Yeah, it's like...the opposite of what we have now.
Instead of dying for some villains to get represented...all the best villains get in before a lot of their rivals.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

It's funny imagining a Brawl speculation scene where people are hoping Ridley returns instead of tearing at each other's throats about his inclusion.

 

[Wintropy]

Another fun game~

Scenario: the Rare buyout never happened (be strong for mother). How does this affect the Smash roster?

I reckon we'd have Banjo-Kazooie in Melee (the original third-parties!), along with Diddy. K. Rool would almost certainly have appeared in Brawl as well, and would probably be a mainstay in his own series. Dixie would probably join in Brawl as well, so we'd have four DK characters by the time Brawl is released.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Another fun game~

Scenario: the Rare buyout never happened (be strong for mother). How does this affect the Smash roster?

I reckon we'd have Banjo-Kazooie in Melee (the original third-parties!), along with Diddy. K. Rool would almost certainly have appeared in Brawl as well, and would probably be a mainstay in his own series. Dixie would probably join in Brawl as well, so we'd have four DK characters by the time Brawl is released.

and then we get Lanky kong in smash 4 beacuse Rare would have kept using the characters instead of throwing away anything DK that isnt Donkey/diddy.

we wpould also have a banjo threeie and peace on earth

 

[Wintropy]

and then we get Lanky kong in smash 4 beacuse Rare would have kept using the characters instead of throwing away anything DK that isnt Donkey/diddy.

we wpould also have a banjo threeie and peace on earth

No kidding, I could see Cranky appearing in Smash 4 if that was the case. He's pretty much the next most important character after the Big Four.

 

[Burruni]

Another fun game~

Scenario: the Rare buyout never happened (be strong for mother). How does this affect the Smash roster?

I reckon we'd have Banjo-Kazooie in Melee (the original third-parties!), along with Diddy. K. Rool would almost certainly have appeared in Brawl as well, and would probably be a mainstay in his own series. Dixie would probably join in Brawl as well, so we'd have four DK characters by the time Brawl is released.

I feel like B-K would get in, but I feel like one of the other original characters would effectively become a "scrapped." Odds are... it'd be one of our two retroes or.... (with ).

Without Melee bringing the series to the west, Fire Emblem as a series quite possibly could be dead by the end of FE12 and in its place Advance Wars got a character in Brawl, alongside and King K. Rool. Dixie would come out come Smash 4 without an argument.

 

[Kenith]

and then we get Lanky kong in smash 4 beacuse Rare would have kept using the characters instead of throwing away anything DK that isnt Donkey/diddy.
we wpould also have a banjo threeie and peace on earth

"Lanky Kong Has No Style!"

 

[Wintropy]

I feel like B-K would get in, but I feel like one of the other original characters would effectively become a "scrapped." Odds are... it'd be one of our two retroes or.... (with ).

Fire Emblem as a series quite possibly be dead by the end of FE12 and in its place Advance Wars got a character in Brawl, alongside and King K. Rool. Dixie would come out come Smash 4 without an argument.

Yeah, sorry, but if it was a choice between Fire Emblem and Banjo-Kazooie...

It's bear and bird season. No survivors.

 

[Burruni]

Yeah, sorry, but if it was a choice between Fire Emblem and Banjo-Kazooie...

It's bear and bird season. No survivors.

That's a question though. Would Sakurai go off the predominantly western two-part series that sold wildly or give some love to the long-running Japan-exclusive series with a pretty passionate but small fanbase?

 

[Kenith]

Yeah, sorry, but if it was a choice between Fire Emblem and Banjo-Kazooie...
It's bear and bird season. No survivors.

I didn't need to know that.
Ice Climbers or G&W would probably go before Marth though...

 

[Champ Gold]

Yeah, sorry, but if it was a choice between Fire Emblem and Banjo-Kazooie...

It's bear and bird season. No survivors.

Pretty much First Party over Second Party

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yeah, sorry, but if it was a choice between Fire Emblem and Banjo-Kazooie...

It's bear and bird season. No survivors.

agreed. in the hypothetical alternate universe where rare is still with nintendo Banjo could get his chance another day (heh) but FE might be stuck in an awkward position.

let banjo stay hibernating so we can get bear and bird in brawl.



although TBH i would expect someone else to have been cut and not marth. dont know who though.

 

[Wintropy]

That's a question though. Would Sakurai go off the predominantly western two-part series that sold wildly or give some love to the long-running Japan-exclusive series with a pretty passionate but small fanbase?

Honestly? Probably the latter, but Nintendo may have twisted his arm and made him at least consider Banjo-Kazooie.

I didn't need to know that.
Ice Climbers or G&W would probably go before Marth though...

Banjo-Kazooie is pretty great and all, but it doesn't have Tiki.

That's a solid point against it.

 

[Kenith]

Pretty much First Party over Second Party

Both of them are second party.

 

[Wintropy]

Both of them are second party.

What? Kenith, bra, what're you on?

Fire Emblem is owned by Nintendo.

 

[A Distant Demon]

stranger argument. would conker EVER have a chance in this situation in a later smash? would his rudeness keep him out? would rare abandon the furball after his one game? does anyone even care?

 

[Wintropy]

stranger argument. would conker EVER have a chance in this situation? would his rudeness keep him out? would rare abandon the furball after his one game? does anyone even care?

I think he burned his bridges with Nintendo after Bad Fur Day.

And honestly, I can safely say that, no, I don't care.

 

[Kenith]

What? Kenith, bra, what're you on?
Fire Emblem is owned by Nintendo.

Intelligent Systems owns it though.
If it's not second party then I have no idea why Sakurai needed IS's permission to use Marth.

 

[Burruni]

stranger argument. would conker EVER have a chance in this situation? would his rudeness keep him out? would rare abandon the furball after his one game? does anyone even care?

Conker wouldn't get a chance over Banjo-Kazooie. One game, not as popular, and was created to be a sharp contrast to the "Nintendo Formula." I'd more expect a BattleToad to eventually get in as a second "Rare" character,

 

[Champ Gold]

Intelligent Systems owns it though.
If it's not second party then I have no idea why Sakurai needed IS's permission to use Marth.

Yeah but Nintendo also has majority ownership. It's like with Pokemon where GF has shared ownership of Pokemon but Nintendo has majority ownership. B&K was majority owned by Rare, Nintendo just published the game and had a small hand but it's their game.

Also Nintendo owns Intelligent Systems

 

[A Distant Demon]

i should have worded that better. i kind of thougt bigger than i said.

would conker get more games and become an "icon?" would he eventually get into smash?
banjo would obviously get in first but it was more a question of would conker keep getting games and would his brashness keep him out of say brawl/smash 4

yes that was a rare pun. yes azure warrior i do mean that pun.

 

[Burruni]

Yeah but Nintendo also has majority ownership. It's like with Pokemon where GF has shared ownership of Pokemon but Nintendo has majority ownership. B&K was majority owned by Rare, Nintendo just published the game and had a small hand but it's their game.

Also Nintendo owns Intelligent Systems

Nintendo PUBLISHED and owns the rights to as an IP but their games were entirely handled by (and pretty sure the rights to the characters go to) second-party developers.
Banjo-Kazooie's only difference is that the rights with Rareware left when they swept over to Microsoft, making them third party.

Edit:

i should have worded that better. i kind of thougt bigger than i said.

would conker get more games and become an "icon?" would he eventually get into smash?
banjo would obviously get in first but it was more a question of would conker keep getting games and would his brashness keep him out of say brawl/smash 4

yes that was a rare pun. yes azure warrior i do mean that pun.

I feel like Conker would only get his second game. The formula that made that game what it was is not one that could be handled for too long and I feel like Rare wouldn't stick to him for too long. Nonetheless, I feel like he would never become "Smash tier" by the time of Brawl and would be largely irrelevant by Smash 4. That's my opinion, of course.

 

[Wintropy]

Intelligent Systems owns it though.
If it's not second party then I have no idea why Sakurai needed IS's permission to use Marth.

Huh, good point. I stand corrected.

At any rate, Anna-Tiki tag-team combo plz~ ;3

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just your friendly reminder that second party doesn't exist.

It's just a shared first party.

 

[PushDustIn]

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee; and had there been a full Metroid game on the N64, not even that may have been an issue if he had gotten into the previous game.

Plus this is an entirely hypothetical scenario of which there was a N64 Metroid game that Ridley was a big part of, that got him into Smash 64, that made him a series veteran. Not even based on facts.

Please post the source(s) so we can confirm it. This is my first time hearing about this.

 

[A10theHero]

Just your friendly reminder that second party doesn't exist.

It's just a shared first party.

The "second party" refers to the consumer anyways, so yeah.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Please post the source(s) so we can confirm it. This is my first time hearing about this.

"If I can find a source to it (which I admit is really unlikely), I'll link it. But as it stands, it's a highly dubious bit of info that I'd really rather not want to spread misinformation about."

I've been unable to find anything else on the matter from a reliable source, so I'm just going to say that the info'd be best classed as Highly Dubious. It's entirely plausible, but without any sources I'm not willing to go the full mile and proclaim to the heavens that it's a fact.

Though maybe if someone has the chance, they could ask Sakurai about it...but for now, I'm not sure of it's legitimacy myself. Doubt it's legitimacy untill it's proven, at the very least.

 

[Pakky]

They're about as much of a conflict of interest as Snake was in Brawl, honestly.

Snake wasn't owned by the competition. Nor did his inclusion offer free advertising to the competition. Also of course Microsoft executives are fine with B&K being in smash its pretty much like:

"Oh yeah Nintendo you can have these characters that we own in smash, thanks for making them relative to the public again so that we can have more push behind our new B&K game that's dropping this fall"

Honestly I don't have a problem with them being in, but their inclusion just seems a lot more complicated than people think.

 

[PushDustIn]

I've been unable to find anything else on the matter from a reliable source, so I'm just going to say that the info'd be best classed as Highly Dubious. It's entirely plausible, but without any sources I'm not willing to go the full mile and proclaim to the heavens that it's a fact.

Though maybe if someone has the chance, they could ask Sakurai about it...but for now, I'm not sure of it's legitimacy myself. Doubt it's legitimacy untill it's proven, at the very least.

There's a lot of things I want to ask Sakurai about, but he doesn't reply to questions on Twitter, and there's no direct connection to him making contacting him quite difficult. Can you post at least post where you found it? We might be able to trace it back to see if it was just made up information a LA Lief, Wolf and Dedede in Melee.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee; and had there been a full Metroid game on the N64, not even that may have been an issue if he had gotten into the previous game.

Plus this is an entirely hypothetical scenario of which there was a N64 Metroid game that Ridley was a big part of, that got him into Smash 64, that made him a series veteran. Not even based on facts.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA no. Ridley was just a random boss with awesome theme at that time. This info is faker than a pink moustache.

Yeah, it's like...the opposite of what we have now.
Instead of dying for some villains to get represented...all the best villains get in before a lot of their rivals.

If you mean protagonists' rivals, then villain>rival (Bowser>Wario, Eggman>Shadow, etc). If you mean that all the best villains got in before best...er...heroes...protagonists...main characters...whatever, then thats not true since pretty much everyone who had a villain that is worth adding is playable since SSB64 (Mario, Link, Samus, Donkey Kong, Pikachu and co'..except is not really a villain and Pikachu is just a maskot/very popular "character" or something, Kirby...except aren't really villains but nobody cares and Fox).

There's a lot of things I want to ask Sakurai about, but he doesn't reply to questions on Twitter, and there's no direct connection to him making contacting him quite difficult. Can you post at least post where you found it? We might be able to trace it back to see if it was just made up information a LA Lief, Wolf and Dedede in Melee.

Dedede and Wolf were not made up...Well, at least Dedede wasn't.

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently, from what I've been able to gather (basically, a rousing Google search), Ridley was only dropped due to time constraints in Melee;

Don't know where you got your source, but that's a load of bull.

Intelligent Systems owns it though.
If it's not second party then I have no idea why Sakurai needed IS's permission to use Marth.

That was what cednym said.
We now know cednym's information is without a doubt incorrect.

 

[EmceeEspio]

Just your friendly reminder that second party doesn't exist.

It's just a shared first party.

O, U.

Don't know where you got your source, but that's a load of bull.

My money's on 4chan.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Not 4chan, actually, but Smashboards itself (though the poster themself said to take them all with a grain of salt, which I did):
http://smashboards.com/threads/deleted-character-from-ssb-ssbm-ssbb-please-read.117686/

Of course, the thread has all the credibility of the Klonoa leak, so again that's why I took it with a grain of salt.