• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
A) Ganon. Not Ganondorf. That's like saying Sheik should start using a rapier because Zelda does in Hyrule Warriors. Let's get some thick lines between these characters.

B) I'll admit. I thought Charizard's wings kinda bent over themselves and partially on his body when idle. Don't see enough of the character. And "Charizard didn't become a fight until gen 4 was out" is something I just can't translate. He was always part-flying. My point being that being a flying type was always a part of Charizard. Being in the air wasn't. Gen 6 is the first one to give Charizard a default animation for such and his flying moves were always minimal. He's been able TO fly but actively doing so is not nearly as integral to who he is than it has been for Ridley. Charizard flies around almost as much as Gengar in their home works. Every Ridley fight has him in the air. Only in Other M has he had a single attack that wasn't aerial. THAT is the difference I'm making.

C) Shulk's F-Smash? You mean where it's a two-part hit like his B-Air, U-Air, and D-Air with only the second having "broken" reach?
point made on Ganon.


Charizard didn't become a fighter until gen 4 was out, I goofed on the grammar but Charizard wasn't included in smash during the time of gen3 but he was included during the time of gen 4. I know what his typing is.

This "He's been able TO fly but actively doing so is not nearly as integral to who he is than it has been for Ridley." and this

"My point being that being a flying type was always a part of Charizard. Being in the air wasn't." don't mix. Being a flying type means that flying is a large part of the pokemon.
 
Last edited:

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,713
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Charizard didn't become a fighter until gen 4 was out, I goofed on the grammar but Charizard wasn't included in smash during the time of gen3 but he was included during the time of gen 4. I know what his typing is.

This "He's been able TO fly but actively doing so is not nearly as integral to who he is than it has been for Ridley." and this

"My point being that being a flying type was always a part of Charizard. Being in the air wasn't." don't mix. Being a flying type means that flying is a large part of the pokemon.
Ahem......Doduo.

Thats a bad example because Sheik is still Zelda, just with some minor changes to appearance and different clothes. Better examples would be, say, Ridley using bombs and missiles because Meta Ridley and Omega Ridley can do so. Sorry, Pakky, but this one is true. Its not the same thing.
Aren't Ridley and Meta Ridley the same creature, but one is essentially a metal zombie version of the other?
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Aren't Ridley and Meta Ridley the same creature, but one is essentially a metal zombie version of the other?
Yes, but Meta (and Omega) Ridley is heavely modified (armed with various weapons and covered in various cybernetic replacements and metal armor), so, he is very different from normal Ridley. And he isn't a zombie at all...until Metroid Fusion...except not really since its not reanimated Ridley corpse and instead is an X parasite mimicking Ridley.
Yeah, its ridicolous. Can't he also be in aerial fights?
 
Last edited:

A10theHero

SSJ Fraud
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
2,937
Location
The Hoenn region
NNID
A10theHero
Dang, I hate it when you guys finish talking about Spyro without me. Don't you know I'm the unofficial official Smashboards resident Spyro expert? :p I apologize for bringing this up again, but the things that have been said need to be addressed.

When was the last time they used Spyro for advertising purposes for Skylanders anyway?
This is the point I keep trying to make. Yeah, TECHNICALLY he still exists, but I never see them advertise him, like, ever. The only time he had heavy ads for Skylander's was... Spyro's Adventure. The only one that can even arguably be considered a Spyro spinoff.
How many times do I have to repeat myself? :facepalm: Toys for Bob wants to show off the other Skylanders too because they don't want the leader to hog the spotlight. That's why Spyro isn't the focus of every single thing that Skylanders puts out. HOWEVER, the evidence I compiled in that list (which has still not been directly addressed or recognized), shows that Spyro is still a prominent Skylander in the series. I also said that the series is becoming less of a spin-off with each successive game, but IT STILL IS LOOSELY CONNECTED TO SPYRO'S SERIES. (His background story mentions that he came from another place--which was likely the Legend of Spyro world--to join the Skylanders. This is the only link, but it does mean that the series are related.)
If you want more evidence about Spyro's prominence, let's talk about Eon's Elite. Remember how I said that there's an Elite Spyro figurine? Only 1 Skylander of every element got an Elite version. Spyro was one of them. And, I'll say it again, none of the other Skylanders have as many nods and distinctions as Spyro--even the others ones that got Elite status are still not at his level.
You know, it's one thing to disagree. That's perfectly okay. But if you can't completely address my argument and you only repeat your claim while ignoring a lot of what I've said, there's a problem. :(
This is kinda related but not entirely relevant:
Another thing I didn't talk about is the Skylanders books (mostly because I haven't really researched them much). I still need to finish my examination, but it appears that Spyro appears in the most novels.


The main problem with the idea of Ridley fans trying to get Spyro isn't just Activision is greedy as ****, but because Spyro's main attack other than fire is him headbutting things. Ridley stabs with his tail and won't stop grabbing things.
...You don't know much about Spyro either, do you? :(
Spyro usually has multiple breaths, with fire being the most prominent obviously. But in the Legend of Spyro series, he could use Fire, Earth, Electricity, and Ice. Also, Spyro learned about the Dragon Kata in the original series. That's a fighting style that uses more than just the horns. In addition, Spyro had melee combos in the Legend of Spyro series that share some similarities with the Dragon Kata.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,713
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Lol forgot about that.
Yes, but Meta (and Omega) Ridley is heavely modified (armed with various weapons and covered in various cybernetic replacements and metal armor), so, he is very different from normal Ridley.
So Ridley with weaponised armor, is much more different than Sheik (very flexible ninja) is to Zelda (who has to rely on magic in battle).

Question: What is the difference between Luma's AI, and Nana's AI? Well... Besides the obvious fact that Luma can't grab.
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
So Ridley with weaponised armor, is much more different than Sheik (very flexible ninja) is to Zelda (who has to rely on magic in battle).
Yes, because its not just armor. Some of his parts are replaced (wings, neck, shins and feet, tail, pelvis and probably several internal organs). You can easily see Zelda using Sheik's weapons and she most likely is very flexible as well (didn't Impa told her all of that ninja stuff after Ganondorf took over?), but you can't imagine Ridley creating fire shockwaves with his feet, dropping bombs from his tail, shooting missiles, creating electic cages with his hands (Omega Ridley), shooting laser beam from his tail (Omega Ridley), etc. Thats another reason why Meta Ridley as Ridley's final smash as an idea is bulls**t.
Question: What is the difference between Luma's AI, and Nana's AI? Well... Besides the obvious fact that Luma can't grab.
I think Luma is just a glorified projectile (not confirmed yet) while Nana is a separate character that copies player's imputs with minor delay unless she is separated and thats when it uses normal CPU AI (more-or-less confirmed). Even then, Nana has a separate model that is a lot more complex than a Luma.
 
Last edited:

Godzillathewonderdog

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
3,450
Dang, I hate it when you guys finish talking about Spyro without me. Don't you know I'm the unofficial official Smashboards resident Spyro expert? :p I apologize for bringing this up again, but the things that have been said need to be addressed.



How many times do I have to repeat myself? :facepalm: Toys for Bob wants to show off the other Skylanders too because they don't want the leader to hog the spotlight. That's why Spyro isn't the focus of every single thing that Skylanders puts out. HOWEVER, the evidence I compiled in that list (which has still not been directly addressed or recognized), shows that Spyro is still a prominent Skylander in the series. I also said that the series is becoming less of a spin-off with each successive game, but IT STILL IS LOOSELY CONNECTED TO SPYRO'S SERIES. (His background story mentions that he came from another place--which was likely the Legend of Spyro world--to join the Skylanders. This is the only link, but it does mean that the series are related.)
If you want more evidence about Spyro's prominence, let's talk about Eon's Elite. Remember how I said that there's an Elite Spyro figurine? Only 1 Skylander of every element got an Elite version. Spyro was one of them. And, I'll say it again, none of the other Skylanders have as many nods and distinctions as Spyro--even the others ones that got Elite status are still not at his level.
You know, it's one thing to disagree. That's perfectly okay. But if you can't completely address my argument and you only repeat your claim while ignoring a lot of what I've said, there's a problem. :(
This is kinda related but not entirely relevant:
Another thing I didn't talk about is the Skylanders books (mostly because I haven't really researched them much). I still need to finish my examination, but it appears that Spyro appears in the most novels.



...You don't know much about Spyro either, do you? :(
Spyro usually has multiple breaths, with fire being the most prominent obviously. But in the Legend of Spyro series, he could use Fire, Earth, Electricity, and Ice. Also, Spyro learned about the Dragon Kata in the original series. That's a fighting style that uses more than just the horns. In addition, Spyro had melee combos in the Legend of Spyro series that share some similarities with the Dragon Kata.
It was a simple question dude, I just wanted the answer to it (which you haven't provided me).
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,713
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Yes, because its not just armor. Some of his parts are replaced (wings, neck, shins and feet, tail, pelvis and probably several internal organs). You can easily see Zelda using Sheik's weapons and she most likely is very flexible as well (didn't Impa told her all of that ninja stuff after Ganondorf took over?), but you can't imagine Ridley creating fire shockwaves with his feet, dropping bombs from his tail, shooting missiles, creating electic cages with his hands (Omega Ridley), shooting laser beam from his tail (Omega Ridley), etc. Thats another reason why Meta Ridley as Ridley's final smash as an idea is bulls**t.

I think Luma is just a glorified projectile (not confirmed yet) while Nana is a separate character that copies player's imputs with minor delay unless she is separated and thats when it uses normal CPU AI (more-or-less confirmed). Even then, Nana has a separate model that is a lot more complex than a Luma.
1st point: I think Zelda changes her build when she changes into Sheik. If not, the only reason why Zelda transforms into Sheik to do her ninja stuff is literaly because she is wearing a dress....(sighs)
2nd point: But Luma does copy what Rosalina does though. Luma has animations for everything Rosalina does, except spot dodging, and teetering. (He even dances around when you grab an opponent!) I think Luma works instead of Nana because of simplistic design, he cannot recover from a tumbling animation, he can't use specials on his own, and the fact that less of his animations have a hitbox. Well, ill think about it more tomorrow. No sense in frying my brain before bed.
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
1st point: I think Zelda changes her build when she changes into Sheik. If not, the only reason why Zelda transforms into Sheik to do her ninja stuff is literaly because she is wearing a dress....(sighs)
2nd point: But Luma does copy what Rosalina does though. Luma has animations for everything Rosalina does, except spot dodging, and teetering. (He even dances around when you grab an opponent!) I think Luma works instead of Nana because of simplistic design, he cannot recover from a tumbling animation, he can't use specials on his own, and the fact that less of his animations have a hitbox. Well, ill think about it more tomorrow. No sense in frying my brain before bed.
Or because its harder to find her like this. She was hiding from Ganondorf. And becoming a ninja is a good thing when god knows what walks around.

Not really. Luma has its own animations and attacks. Nana is a separate character that pretty much is a perfect clone of Popo. That doesn't matters much though. Model is what matters. Luma is a very simple star-shaped creature while Nana is a kid in a...whatever that kind of suit is called, with glowes (which means she has at least 5 bones in each hand), a hammer, sleeves that move around as wind physics tell them, actual legs and arms, among other things.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
When i see Ganondorf IRL with his huf-huf run, i laugh. When i see Ganondorf running like you'd expect all-powerful wizard 2x bigger than any human to run, then it looks threatening (would be even more if screen would shake slightly or there would be more noticable GFX for his footsteps or at least any). I wasn't saying that he should run like he does in TP or WW. I was just saying that there is no reason for him to run like he never ran before.
Wait, you see Ganondorf run IRL? Where? I'm sure a friend of mine would be ecstatic to meet him! :troll:
Eh, but joking aside, Ganondorf's only half an inch taller than Yao Ming. His official height according to Hyrule Historia is 7 ft 6 1/2 in.
He's not some giant wizard man (well technically he is, but you know what I mean) that makes the ground shake when he walks.


Its hard to tell when he opens his mouth like this on such rough sketches and not on proper art/drawings. I was using that image because its just as ridicolous in my opinion.
Fair enough.

Still looks great outside of his chest's black parts/ribcage. A lot better than Ridley.
Let's just agree to disagree here. I see them equally bad. Ridley's only more noticeable because no one honestly gives a **** about Metal Face like they do Ridley.


...So, he should actually be made darker? Wow.
Not what I said.


No, being an A-hole for Internet points makes you sound like a child.
"Internet points"? And you accuse me of sounding like a child?


In bold: He did that's why I brought it up but I can't find the article, the one you posted wasn't it.
He didn't. That's why you can't find the article.

This is what was said:


This is a picture from the project plan document that was in the Iwata Asks interview years back. I've saved it to my Photobucket before Smash 4 was even shown off.
Do you see a "never" in there? Neither do I.

Here's the old Nintendo Power interview that was done after Brawl for good measure:


"And of course, we looked at games like Animal Crossing and Nintendogs, where there aren't really any characters that lend themselves to fighting, and we decided not to include characters from those series as fighting characters."

Again, do you see a "they will never be in Smash as fighters" anywhere?


*Sighs* numerous reporting sites have misinterpreted what Sakurai was saying.
He never said "no fighting game characters".
Look at his quote:
“The biggest feature we look at in Smash Bros. is, ‘What does this character bring to Smash Bros. that other characters don’t?’ If you look at… someone from a fighting game already, and people like fighting with this character, from my point of view, it’s like ‘this guy does what this guy already does. He fills the role that this character already has.”

He's saying that what's distinct about a character is what's looked at the most. (Which is exactly what he was saying in regards to the article I posted earlier on Villager and Wii Fit Trainer)
The fighting game example? He's saying just because the character is popular isn't enough. They have to be distinct.

While that still may seem like it would affect Ryu (which I myself believed), there's still to consider that while Ryu himself isn't all that special, him bringing elements of Street Fighter in his Smash fighting style would be distinct from the rest of Smash's cast.

My point was that what Sakurai says isn't always, the case because he has the tendency to change his mind a lot .
That's an irrelevant argument.
The discussion was about Ridley in context of Smash 4, not some future installment.


Ya Know with Ganondorf you could, well I don't know, do anything else, like anything else than make him a clone of a character that he nothing to do with. Multiple styles or not, a least make him a swordsman , seeing as how he was one in Twilight princess and kind of one in Ocarina of time. S
He was only a swordsman in two of three games in his Ganondorf state (not including the Hyrule Warriors spin-off), Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. And both sword styles are completely different.
And to be fair about Melee, Ganondorf was thrown in late in development due to popularity and his similar body type to Captain Falcon. At that point, he didn't have much to work with other than floating around and throwing energy balls as well as slamming Link's face/the ground with his fist.

I can understand the questioning for Brawl/Smash 4, but at the very least, Ganondorf's attacks, both the ones he doesn't have derivative from Falcon and the ones he does have a very brutal and powerful feel that arguably fit Ganondorf as a close quarters fighter.


In terms of the wings and him being able to fly or at least flying being a big part of is character...
Ah, I knew it was only a matter of time before Mr. Fire Lizard was used as a counterpoint.
Flying is a big part of his character......to seek out opponents. And he's found them.
He's equally ground based as he is aerial based typically only seen in true aerial combat if the opponent is also capable of it.


Also Kirby can fly, and Dedede, and Meta Knight
The only point I'm going to address out of that paragraph. The rest......I just can't take any of that seriously. Not saying this "for internet points", but that last paragraph made absolutely zero sense.

Anyways, not only are Kirby/Dedede/Meta Knight Sakurai's own characters (i.e. he can set whatever limit he wants for them and not feel guilty), but Kirby's and Dedede's flight are based off of sucking in air.
In Kirby's case, because he's the protagonist, he's generally able to do this indefinitely (all playable characters get flight or infinite jumps) to make things easier for younger players. However, Kirby 64 shows an example where he indeed has a limit; he can fly for as long as he can hold his breath.
Dedede follows this same principle; he sucks in air and floats until he has to exhale. Only when Dedede is playable does he have infinite flight (for the same reason as Kirby).

Now, Meta Knight is the outlier since he flies with wings. Though he doesn't really fly around much, especially not in combat outside of giving him a bit of a boost upwards or to rush at his opponent.
With that in mind, Sakurai could very well make an excuse that Meta Knight's flight limit is self-imposed due to his chivalrous nature and preferring a fair fight.
It's not exactly fair if Meta Knight can just fly indefinitely, now is it?
Can't really apply that excuse to Ridley, since he couldn't care less about fairness. If he can fly and his opponent can't, too bad for them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Wait, you see Ganondorf run IRL? Where? I'm sure a friend of mine would be ecstatic to meet him! :troll:
Eh, but joking aside, Ganondorf's only half an inch taller than Yao Ming. His official height according to Hyrule Historia is 7 ft 6 1/2 in.
He's not some giant wizard man (well technically he is, but you know what I mean) that makes the ground shake when he walks.
Well, im not sure was it Ganondorf or not, but it certainly was a large dude with glorious beard, dark skin, large nose and angry face.
Then Link is a patheticly small for a Hero of Time if he is below 5 feet tall (he doesn't even reaches Ganondorf's waist). Hell, even i would be taller than that.
Let's just agree to disagree here. I see them equally bad. Ridley's only more noticeable because no one honestly gives a **** about Metal Face like they do Ridley.
Ok.
...but i care...he is a pretty cool guy. swipes with claws and doesn't afraid of anything.
Can't really apply that excuse to Ridley, since he couldn't care less about fairness. If he can fly and his opponent can't, too bad for them.
His lil' bro-except-not-really does though. You rarely see him flying in Other M. Probably because its more effective that way rather than that it is fair and he certainly remembers Anthony Samus and even if he wouldn't, he would still know that she has ranged weapons from Adolescent Ridley fight.
And why not say that he just gets tired? Thats a good excuse why he doesn't flies forever. You don't see Mewtwo going all wavedashing either even though he can and he certainly wouldn't limit himself. Its not one of his main traits though...
Also, in Metroid Prime 3, during Omega Ridley fight, most of the fight happens on the ground.
Also also, Meta Knight couldn't care less about flying around when fighting Galacta Knight as far as i remember. Someone who he should respect or something.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
Bulls**t:
Well, I can already see this is going to be a pleasant discussion.
This is what his max range would be at size that wouldn't be too big to fit everything around him while still being noticably bigger than Samus. As for wings, they can be left without hitboxes. Like Pit's wings. Or most of Charizard's wings. Or just leave them like Charizard's wings and have then be put closer to his body unless he uses them. Like you'd expect a flying creature to fold its wings when they are not used.

If you want Other M Ridley for comparison, then here:
If you want Dedede casually swinging his hammer, then here:

And sorry for Dedede's creepy eyes - forgot to turn off that texture.
You are aware Dedede's F-Tilt doesn't go nearly as far anymore, right? You need to think of in terms of Smash 4, not Brawl.





Ridley is anorexic xenomorph-dragon-pterosaur thing. How can he be that heavy?

He also is a flying creature and must be light for it to be possible, among other things.
"Some species of pterosaurs grew to very large sizes and this has implications for their capacity for flight. Many pterosaurs were small but the largest had wingspans which exceeded 9 m (30 ft). The largest of these are estimated to have weighed 250 kilograms (550 lb). For comparison, the wandering albatross has the largest wingspan of living birds at up to 3.5 m (11 ft) but usually weighs less than 12 kilograms (26 lb). This indicates that the largest pterosaurs may have had greater wing loadings than modern birds (depending on wing profile) and this has implications for the manner in which pterosaur flight might differ from that of modern birds."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur_size
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Well, I can already see this is going to be a pleasant discussion.
As if it was such...
You are aware Dedede's F-Tilt doesn't go nearly as far anymore, right? You need to think of in terms of Smash 4, not Brawl.
No. Thanks for info. Still, it doesn't goes further than it. Only Other M Ridley's tail would go further if Dedede's FTilt range was noticably reduced. Still not by much (just around half of his tail blade).
"Some species of pterosaurs grew to very large sizes and this has implications for their capacity for flight. Many pterosaurs were small but the largest had wingspans which exceeded 9 m (30 ft). The largest of these are estimated to have weighed 250 kilograms (550 lb). For comparison, the wandering albatross has the largest wingspan of living birds at up to 3.5 m (11 ft) but usually weighs less than 12 kilograms (26 lb). This indicates that the largest pterosaurs may have had greater wing loadings than modern birds (depending on wing profile) and this has implications for the manner in which pterosaur flight might differ from that of modern birds."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur_size
Pterosaurs couldn't just take off from the same spots like, you know, birds and Ridley. Also, "Partially, this is due to the presence of air sacs in their wing membranes,[13] as well as the assessment that some pterosaurs may have launched into flight using their front limbs in a quadrupedal stance similar to that of some bats.". So...i dunno. Still, Ridley can't be heavy if scaled down to slightly below Bowser's size. Especially when Quetzalcoatlus, a pterosaur a lot bigger than a human and with wingspan near Ridley's, is around 200-250kg/440-550lbs.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member

Guest
His lil' bro-except-not-really does though. You rarely see him flying in Other M. Probably because its more effective that way rather than that it is fair and he certainly remembers Anthony Samus and even if he wouldn't, he would still know that she has ranged weapons from Adolescent Ridley fight.
He cares so much for a fair fight that the first thing he does is grab Samus and sadistically torture her while she's busy PTSDing and flies around while holding her helpless and scraping her against the wall.


And why not say that he just gets tired? Thats a good excuse why he doesn't flies forever.
Unless the same excuse is legitimately used for Charizard and Meta Knight, it's a rather....bizarre excuse I wouldn't imagine even the most extreme of Ridley supporters to consider. 0_0
I could see it if say, the wings were made into "2D game mode" and on the smaller side to where it's more reasonable to assume he can't really stay in the air long.
Hell, making Ridley into "2D game mode" in regards to both his wings and tail (shorter and given separated round joints) seems perfect to me. But only if it's part of a new model as opposed to taking a pre-existing design and giving it those features.

You don't see Mewtwo going all wavedashing either even though he can and he certainly wouldn't limit himself. Its not one of his main traits though...
I've never seen Mewtwo "going all wavedashing" outside of Melee when someone wavedashes with him. 0_o


Also, in Metroid Prime 3, during Omega Ridley fight, most of the fight happens on the ground.
That doesn't mean he purposefully restricted himself or would be willing to, which was the point I was getting at.


Also also, Meta Knight couldn't care less about flying around when fighting Galacta Knight as far as i remember.
What exactly are you saying here? That Meta Knight didn't care about restricting his flight or that he didn't care about being able to fly?

Pterosaurs couldn't just take off from the same spots like, you know, birds and Ridley. Also, "Partially, this is due to the presence of air sacs in their wing membranes,[13] as well as the assessment that some pterosaurs may have launched into flight using their front limbs in a quadrupedal stance similar to that of some bats.". So...i dunno. Still, Ridley can't be heavy if scaled down to slightly below Bowser's size. Especially when Quetzalcoatlus, a pterosaur a lot bigger than a human and with wingspan near Ridley's, is around 200-250kg/440-550lbs.
In my span of fighting off being tired (it's past 1:30 here!), I remembered something that after pointing out to people that I needed reminding of myself; weight in Smash =/= the force of gravity on an object like in reality. It means knockback resistance.
Yeah, Ridley having lower "weight" than Bowser doesn't really matter after all. (Though I would at least prefer he be Samus'/Bowser Jr.'s weight at least)

Though I will say (and I've probably said it before), the idea of Ridley not being bigger than Bowser even marginally is something I can't support.
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
He cares so much for a fair fight that the first thing he does is grab Samus and sadistically torture her while she's busy PTSDing and flies around while holding her helpless and scraping her against the wall.
Thats not what exactly im saying. Still, he doesn't flies much despite it being better for dodging attacks and attacking. Not sure if he just gets tired after flying for too long since he actually can hower without using his wings for no reasons. When using wall scraping grab, he never flaps his wings. He moves them, sure, but they never act like wings. Maybe animators got lazy.
Unless the same excuse is legitimately used for Charizard and Meta Knight, it's a rather....bizarre excuse I wouldn't imagine even the most extreme of Ridley supporters to consider. 0_0
I could see it if say, the wings were made into "2D game mode" and on the smaller side to where it's more reasonable to assume he can't really stay in the air long.
Hell, making Ridley into "2D game mode" in regards to both his wings and tail (shorter and given separated round joints) seems perfect to me. But only if it's part of a new model as opposed to taking a pre-existing design and giving it those features.
But it works.
That part about wings would be kinda ridicolous...Just wings that look small when folded would work better. About wings, im talking about something like his Brawl wings:

That way, they can have hurtboxes without becoming too much of a problem. And like in Other M, he can keep them folded unless he uses them. To make sure they are not static like Meta Ridley's disabled wings in Metroid Prime, they can move around like in Other M. Also, i would bend his wing "fingers" more if it would be possible, but i am limited by the model.
...you know, Ridley can get working design if Other M model would be used, with shorter arms and with Brawl Ridley's wings and tail (except this one should be slightly shorter).
I've never seen Mewtwo "going all wavedashing" outside of Melee when someone wavedashes with him. 0_o
I mean flying around using his telekinesis. Thats just the best name for it (and its similar too, except only on the ground). Its shorter than "flying around using his telekinesis".
That doesn't mean he purposefully restricted himself or would be willing to, which was the point I was getting at.
There was nothing that restricted him from flying. He just...didn't. You can spend as much as you want on last stage, but he will fly despite being more damaged than before.
What exactly are you saying here? That Meta Knight didn't care about restricting his flight or that he didn't care about being able to fly?
He didn't care about restricting his flight despite it pretty much being a duel.
In my span of fighting off being tired (it's past 1:30 here!), I remembered something that after pointing out to people that I needed reminding of myself; weight in Smash =/= the force of gravity on an object like in reality. It means knockback resistance.
Yeah, Ridley having lower "weight" than Bowser doesn't really matter after all. (Though I would at least prefer he be Samus'/Bowser Jr.'s weight at least)
That would be a better weight. Even if it would actually be weight, then he would still have lower weight than Bowser since that one is fat.
Though I will say (and I've probably said it before), the idea of Ridley not being bigger than Bowser even marginally is something I can't support.
Im more talking about Brawl Bowser, who seems to be bigger than SSB4 Bowser or at least looks bigger.
 
Last edited:

Wolfie557

Witch-King of the North
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
6,181
Location
London, United Kingdom
3DS FC
3153-4071-1007
Switch FC
SW 3128 8188 4021
Yes, the brand new characters should be in over the N64 icons.

Brilliant!


8 at minimum, maximum depends on how long they support the game.

We already know there are 6 spots are already reserved, 4 are Mewtwo, Lucas, Ryu, and Roy. Given that the ballot is no where near over, I'm assuming these are pre-ballot DLC characters. After that, I'm expecting at least two characters from the ballot, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more.
Of course. Better than BK who just so happens is ms first party.
 

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,343
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Dang, I hate it when you guys finish talking about Spyro without me. Don't you know I'm the unofficial official Smashboards resident Spyro expert? :p I apologize for bringing this up again, but the things that have been said need to be addressed.



How many times do I have to repeat myself? :facepalm: Toys for Bob wants to show off the other Skylanders too because they don't want the leader to hog the spotlight. That's why Spyro isn't the focus of every single thing that Skylanders puts out. HOWEVER, the evidence I compiled in that list (which has still not been directly addressed or recognized), shows that Spyro is still a prominent Skylander in the series. I also said that the series is becoming less of a spin-off with each successive game, but IT STILL IS LOOSELY CONNECTED TO SPYRO'S SERIES. (His background story mentions that he came from another place--which was likely the Legend of Spyro world--to join the Skylanders. This is the only link, but it does mean that the series are related.)
If you want more evidence about Spyro's prominence, let's talk about Eon's Elite. Remember how I said that there's an Elite Spyro figurine? Only 1 Skylander of every element got an Elite version. Spyro was one of them. And, I'll say it again, none of the other Skylanders have as many nods and distinctions as Spyro--even the others ones that got Elite status are still not at his level.
You know, it's one thing to disagree. That's perfectly okay. But if you can't completely address my argument and you only repeat your claim while ignoring a lot of what I've said, there's a problem. :(
This is kinda related but not entirely relevant:
Another thing I didn't talk about is the Skylanders books (mostly because I haven't really researched them much). I still need to finish my examination, but it appears that Spyro appears in the most novels.



...You don't know much about Spyro either, do you? :(
Spyro usually has multiple breaths, with fire being the most prominent obviously. But in the Legend of Spyro series, he could use Fire, Earth, Electricity, and Ice. Also, Spyro learned about the Dragon Kata in the original series. That's a fighting style that uses more than just the horns. In addition, Spyro had melee combos in the Legend of Spyro series that share some similarities with the Dragon Kata.
I haven't played much Spyro other than 3, watching an LP of 1, the DS Eternal something and the DS version of the reboot, my argument wasn't that Spryo didn't have enough to work with, but how when you said 'Ridley fans should vote for Spyro' you completely ignored the fact that the two have different fighting styles, it's like saying 'Mega Man fans should be happy with Samus' before he got confirmed
 

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
What is it about Ridley that people find appealing?
His appearance (xenomorph-dragon-pterosaur thing), his boss fights (mostly Metroid Prime 1 and Super Metroid fights, being one of the best and memorable in the series), his personality overall (this one doesn't comes up as often though), his role in Metroid, those delicious muscl- wait, thats Other M Ridley. Anyway, thats what we find appealing. Its same as with K.Rool and Meta Knight.
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
"Internet points"? And you accuse me of sounding like a child?
How else should I put it.



He didn't. That's why you can't find the article.

This is what was said:


This is a picture from the project plan document that was in the Iwata Asks interview years back. I've saved it to my Photobucket before Smash 4 was even shown off.
Do you see a "never" in there? Neither do I.

Here's the old Nintendo Power interview that was done after Brawl for good measure:


"And of course, we looked at games like Animal Crossing and Nintendogs, where there aren't really any characters that lend themselves to fighting, and we decided not to include characters from those series as fighting characters."

Again, do you see a "they will never be in Smash as fighters" anywhere?
Thank you this is what I was looking for. Also so what has made Villager more plausible now than in the past? Nothing that's what. That being said, this might as well be saying that they will never be in the game. They even had to add some miscellaneous stuff to Villager to make him/her fit, was Villager ever in Balloon fight? no I mean there are balloons in the game but this is a stretch and Villager as far as I know has never boxed so I 'm not sure where that came from.


*Sighs* numerous reporting sites have misinterpreted what Sakurai was saying.
He never said "no fighting game characters".
Look at his quote:
“The biggest feature we look at in Smash Bros. is, ‘What does this character bring to Smash Bros. that other characters don’t?’ If you look at… someone from a fighting game already, and people like fighting with this character, from my point of view, it’s like ‘this guy does what this guy already does. He fills the role that this character already has.”

He's saying that what's distinct about a character is what's looked at the most. (Which is exactly what he was saying in regards to the article I posted earlier on Villager and Wii Fit Trainer)
The fighting game example? He's saying just because the character is popular isn't enough. They have to be distinct.

While that still may seem like it would affect Ryu (which I myself believed), there's still to consider that while Ryu himself isn't all that special, him bringing elements of Street Fighter in his Smash fighting style would be distinct from the rest of Smash's cast.
Understood and agreed



He was only a swordsman in two of three games in his Ganondorf state (not including the Hyrule Warriors spin-off), Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. And both sword styles are completely different.
And to be fair about Melee, Ganondorf was thrown in late in development due to popularity and his similar body type to Captain Falcon. At that point, he didn't have much to work with other than floating around and throwing energy balls as well as slamming Link's face/the ground with his fist.

I can understand the questioning for Brawl/Smash 4, but at the very least, Ganondorf's attacks, both the ones he doesn't have derivative from Falcon and the ones he does have a very brutal and powerful feel that arguably fit Ganondorf as a close quarters fighter.
Alright but i just feel that some sort of alternative could be reached. Also I'm not really getting why a distinction is being made between the two forms, aren't they the same being or am I missing something?



Ah, I knew it was only a matter of time before Mr. Fire Lizard was used as a counterpoint.
Flying is a big part of his character......to seek out opponents. And he's found them.
He's equally ground based as he is aerial based typically only seen in true aerial combat if the opponent is also capable of it.
Okay now if we're talking about the anime then that is partially correct.
However Pokemon in the Smash games seem to be half anime and half game and in terms of the game, well, flying is a big deal.



Anyways, not only are Kirby/Dedede/Meta Knight Sakurai's own characters (i.e. he can set whatever limit he wants for them and not feel guilty), but Kirby's and Dedede's flight are based off of sucking in air.
In Kirby's case, because he's the protagonist, he's generally able to do this indefinitely (all playable characters get flight or infinite jumps) to make things easier for younger players. However, Kirby 64 shows an example where he indeed has a limit; he can fly for as long as he can hold his breath.
Dedede follows this same principle; he sucks in air and floats until he has to exhale. Only when Dedede is playable does he have infinite flight (for the same reason as Kirby).

Now, Meta Knight is the outlier since he flies with wings. Though he doesn't really fly around much, especially not in combat outside of giving him a bit of a boost upwards or to rush at his opponent.
With that in mind, Sakurai could very well make an excuse that Meta Knight's flight limit is self-imposed due to his chivalrous nature and preferring a fair fight.
It's not exactly fair if Meta Knight can just fly indefinitely, now is it?
Can't really apply that excuse to Ridley, since he couldn't care less about fairness. If he can fly and his opponent can't, too bad for them.
-Kirby 64, irrelevant because that limiter of holding his breath has been written out of his character in every other installment after that game.

-Charizard can just fly when he wants to as well, is his beastial nature causing him to be polite even when he is meet with others in Smash that have the capability of achieving flight?

-Charizard has taken flight as well when his opponents could not, as a means of tactile evasion. In the games, nothing is stopping you from using the move fly, and arguably Charizard takes flight in game when the situation calls for it without your input, because how else can you explain how flying pokemon can avoid ground attacks?
 
Last edited:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Alright but i just feel that some sort of alternative could be reached. Also I'm not really getting why a distinction is being made between the two forms, aren't they the same being or am I missing something?
They are, but normal form and beast form are very different, like Mew and Mewtwo, and have their own abilities.[/quote]
Luma differences? No AI, less polygons, made to make Rosalina 1.5 characters instead of 2 like IC
"Polygons" is used incorrectly here. A model can consist of 1 single polygon, but be 1000x more complex than another model that consists of 100 polygons. Verticles, facepoints, etc. would fit better.
 
Last edited:

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
They are, but normal form and beast form are very different, like Mew and Mewtwo, and have their own abilities.
Okay, I'll take that. I just keep looking at it as a power up or a restriction unlock.

Luma differences? No AI, less polygons, made to make Rosalina 1.5 characters instead of 2 like IC
Double post, sorry.

Oh so polycount does matter, that was something I was wondering about as well as how many maps they can use per character. That being said,how is Wonder Red going to be in this game?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BaganSmashBros

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 2, 2014
Messages
6,898
Location
Battlefield
Okay, I'll take that. I just keep looking at it as a power up or a restriction unlock.
Well, it kinda is...
And i used wrong characters for a comparison. An imago and a larva of an insect can be very different and have completly different attributes.
...how do i Engrish?
Oh so polycount does matter. So how is Wonder Red going to be in this game?
Unless he is just Wonder Red and no one else and has horrible GFX used for...whatever those are called, there is no way he can be in the game.
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,343
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
Double post, sorry.

Oh so polycount does matter, that was something I was wondering about as well as how many maps they can use per character. That being said,how is Wonder Red going to be in this game?
I see Wonder Red having the Unite stuff from his friends, but having to charge it for a bigger weapon and more strength like how more Wonders means a bigger Unite Sword
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
I see Wonder Red having the Unite stuff from his friends, but having to charge it for a bigger weapon and more strength like how more Wonders means a bigger Unite Sword
On Wonder Red, the problem is that people make up all the wonderized constructs, they are inside of the hand, sword, etc, even if they are low poly, I can't see too many of them on screen, for a final smash yeah but for smash attacks most certainly not.

Well, it kinda is...
And i used wrong characters for a comparison. An imago and a larva of an insect can be very different and have completly different attributes.
...how do i Engrish?

Unless he is just Wonder Red and no one else and has horrible GFX used for...whatever those are called, there is no way he can be in the game.
understood, that makes more sense, thank you.
 
Last edited:

Cutie Gwen

Lovely warrior
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
63,343
Location
Somewhere out there on this big blue marble
On Wonder Red, the problem is that people make up all the wonderized constructs, they are inside of the hand, sword, etc, even if they are low poly, I can't see too many of them on screen, for a final smash yeah but for smash attacks most certainly not.

understood, that makes more sense, thank you.
My idea was that Wonder Red is on his own and has to charge the attacks up. Not have little Wonderfuls everywhere like Pikmin
 

Kirbyfan391

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
2,919
Location
h
What is it about Ridley that people find appealing?
Besides what others have said. The memetic prevalence of the "too big" argument from Ridley detractors is probably also has to do with why Ridley fans are so vocal on the internet.
 

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
10,032
Location
Here, there, who knows?
NNID
Winterwhite
3DS FC
1461-6253-6301
Wonder Red just needs to be able to charge his Unite Morphs into bigger forms as standard; there's no need to be so pedantic as to have one hundred extra fighters scuttling around after him.

Creative liberties, y'all~
 

Baskerville

That's a paddlin'
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Messages
8,123
Location
London
NNID
RedGazelle7
3DS FC
4184-3881-5805
Wonder Red just needs to be able to charge his Unite Morphs into bigger forms as standard; there's no need to be so pedantic as to have one hundred extra fighters scuttling around after him.

Creative liberties, y'all~
Not to mention that one of the items in the actual game does this.
 

Burruni

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
9,408
Location
Some Netherworld
Captain Falcon is the definition of creative liberties.
What are you talking about? He still drives in the Blue Falcon at lethal speeds! He does everything he does in his actual games. :troll:

But seriously, I don't think anyone's truly upset about what Captain Falcon has become due to Smash.

 
Last edited:

GunGunW

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
1,802
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
NNID
GunGunW
What are you talking about? He still drives in the Blue Falcon at lethal speeds! He does everything he does in his actual games. :troll:

But seriously, I don't think anyone's truly upset about what Captain Falcon has become due to Smash.

LOL when you put it that way....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom