Character Discussion Thread

[ZeldaMaster]

Would Shantae be considered indie? Given how long she has been around, were indie games even a thing back then?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Would Shantae be considered indie? Given how long she has been around, were indie games even a thing back then?

Wayforward is considered an indie company, so yes

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I lived for years thinking that Shantae was a Capcom character (thanks to the original GBC game, published by Capcom).. =\
I think that only around the release of Risky's Revenge I learned about WayForward be her owner; lol

 

[Burruni]

Yooka & Laylee are really up in the air on what's gonna come of them. However, it won't be for Smash 4. If you check their kickstarter, their GOAL is to have this game come out October 2016. That's a full year AFTER the Ballot is going to be coming to a close.

One other thing, which I didn't expect form their initial public statements, is HOW much it's being released for. Steam for PC/Mac/Linux being the primary focus... yeah, sure. But then saying WiiU/PS4/XBONE together really impacted their "Nintendo-ism" for being a Smash character off the premise of this game.

The path for Yooka & Laylee in Smash 5 in 6-8 Years comes in sequels becoming more and more Nintendo-Exclusive and retaining popularity/quality.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yes, the brand new characters should be in over the N64 icons.

Brilliant!


8 at minimum, maximum depends on how long they support the game.

We already know there are 6 spots are already reserved, 4 are Mewtwo, Lucas, Ryu, and Roy. Given that the ballot is no where near over, I'm assuming these are pre-ballot DLC characters. After that, I'm expecting at least two characters from the ballot, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more.

Right

and those 2 spots are most likely for king k rool and wolf

King k rool so far has the most votes in newcomer catergory and is the most wanted character.

And wolf is practically a shoe-in due to and plus don't forget about the wolf taunt on the lyant cruise level,

(Im talking voice actor, theres a possiblity in my opinion that actor did more than thelyant cruise thing.)

(Ps don't point out if its just a rip from brawl i don't know that.)

 

[Pakky]

If they are so "trival" and "can be fixed easily".....why the **** hasn't it been done yet?

Didn't it ever occur to you how illogical that is, that maybe if the problems are recognized that they aren't so "trivial" in the long run and if the solution is so goddamn easy there's no problems to begin with?


Yes, that's certainly it. That must be why he tried to give Ridley an actual role in the game, arguably executed improperly it may be, and willingly acknowledged that he was a popular request and gave an explanation on why he didn't make the fighter roster instead of completely ignoring the fans and keeping Ridley from being anything other than a simple trophy if that at all.
Because he bloody hates him.

Well first I'm gonna have to ask you to calm down a bit because you sound like a child. Second, the reason why I deem Sakurai's reason a bit well "strange" is because he's been wrong on this whole "being true to the character" thing before.

Let's look at what he's said in the past, mind you I'm not going to quote him exactly because i don't know where to find the quote. However the long and short of it is that around the time Brawl was released a statement was made by Sakurai, that characters from peaceful games like animal crossing and Nintendogs would never been in smash because their nature doesn't lend itself well to fighting games. Flash forward a few years and Villager as well as Wii Fit trainer, are not only in the game but were the first new characters to be announced.

Now as far as keeping true to a character's attributes I have two counter points

Spoiler

Same moveset as captain F for three games, how is that keeping true to the character?
We can go about how people like Falcondorf, but that's not the issue being discussed. He's not him and that's the problem so I have to ask, why is continuity a big issue for some and not others?

Spoiler

He's small, You resized him here, what's the problem? Yet he's intimidating, really though if we're being real here Ridley is scary not because he's big its because of stuff like this

Spoiler

 

[A Distant Demon]

Well first I'm gonna have to ask you to calm down a bit because you sound like a child. Second, the reason why I deem Sakurai's reason a bit well "strange" is because he's been wrong on this whole "being true to the character thing" before.

Let's look at what he's said in the past, mind you I'm not going to quote him exactly because i don't know where to find the quote. However the long and short of it is that around the time Brawl was released a statement was made by Sakurai, that characters from peaceful games like animal crossing and Nintendogs would never been in smash because their nature doesn't lend itself well to fighting games. Flash forward a few years and Villager as well as Wii Fit trainer, are not only in the game but were the first new characters to be announced.

Now as far as keeping true to a character's attributes I have two counter points

Spoiler

Same moveset as captain F for three games, how is that keeping true to the character?
We can go about how people like Falcondorf, but that's not the issue being discussed. He's not him and that's the problem so I have to ask, why is continuity a big issue for some and not others?

Spoiler

He's small, You resized him here, what's the problem? Yet he's intimidating, really though if we're being real here Ridley is scary not because he's big its because of stuff like this

Spoiler

villagr and miss were over years. not months. it wouldnt be that fast

ganondorf doesnt have a size problem. He said that he didnt want to go through "hocus pocus" to mkake him a playable size so he kept him as a boss. IT required no actions that could be deemed as strange to make ganondorf a fighter. in fact it was too easy.

you do realize in that image ridley is still pretty damn big right? zoomed out and with distance he seems almost a samus and a half. . .

using manga as game source is illogical. no one who plays only the games knows about that and sees just the boss fights. no kid would think ridley is more than just a dragon. yeah he is much more intersting but to the commun populace he is scary from his speed and/or power, not his sadism

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Admittedly, that's still making Ridley into a size-focused character, when his size only factors into making him look a bit more intimidating at a glance. The real meat of Ridley is his character, which is not about his size. He's always pretty big, yes, but it's not his defining characteristic like Kraid, or even a big essential part of it. Size is just a bonus to Ridley's character.

 

[EmceeEspio]

villagr and miss were over years. not months. it wouldnt be that fast

ganondorf doesnt have a size problem. He said that he didnt want to go through "hocus pocus" to mkake him a playable size so he kept him as a boss. IT required no actions that could be deemed as strange to make ganondorf a fighter. in fact it was too easy.

you do realize in that image ridley is still pretty damn big right? zoomed out and with distance he seems almost a samus and a half. . .

using manga as game source is illogical. no one who plays only the games knows about that and sees just the boss fights. no kid would think ridley is more than just a dragon. yeah he is much more intersting but to the commun populace he is scary from his speed and/or power, not his sadism

I'm still waiting for a Metroid game where Ridley talks. The manga is pretty much canon so we know he can. But as Samus we never get to see him do anything but fight us, in which case he is intimidating Samus with frightening noises.

How awesome would it be to walk into a room and hear an all too familiar roar suddenly morph itself with garbled, demonic speech as Ridley starts creeping toward you, spewing insults to try and break Samus only to make her furious and que cinematic Boss fight.

Make it happen, Retro.

 

[Burruni]

Make it happen, Retro.

No no no. We need DKCR3 with King K. Rool and Kremlings first.

 

[MainJPW]

No no no. We need DKCR3 with King K. Rool and Kremlings first.

This is the top priority of course.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

No no no. We need DKCR3 with King K. Rool and Kremlings first.

Why not a crossover? Ridley and K.Rool join forces to take out DK, and Samus joins the Kongs to protect DK Island and defeat Ridley again. Best of both worlds.

 

[N3ON]

As someone who prefers DKC games to Metroid games, we in no way need another DKC before we get a new Metroid.

 

[Burruni]

As someone who prefers DKC games to Metroid games, we in no way need another DKC before we get a new Metroid.

I never said that.
I said Retro needs to make DKCR3 with King K. Rool and Kremlings before a Metroid game with a talking Ridley.

Let someone else make a 2D Metroidvania Metroid game for 3DS.

It'll sell like hot-cakes.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I never said that.
I said Retro needs to make DKCR3 with King K. Rool and Kremlings before a Metroid game with a talking Ridley.

Let someone else make a 2D Metroidvania Metroid game for 3DS.

It'll sell like hot-cakes.

I don't really think we want to trust untested devs to make a new Metroid; I mean, look what happened when Sonic did that; we got a glitchy mess of a game in the form of Sonic Boom.

Retro is the most trustworthy studio to handle Metroid because they've already shown they can handle the franchise and make it sell. And if there's anything Metroid needs, it's a game that isn't going to kill the series again.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I dont care who makes metroid. as long as its half decent and doesnt make anything terrible its fine.

please. . .just give us metroid again.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I dont care who makes metroid. as long as its half decent and doesnt make anything terrible its fine.

please. . .just give us metroid again.

What's Metroid like?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What's Metroid like?

Sex.

But better.

 

[GunGunW]

What about a new DK64 style game?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What about a new DK64 style game?

http://www.playtonicgames.com/games/yooka-laylee/

 

[MainJPW]

What about a new DK64 style game?

That'd be a good change of pace.

http://www.playtonicgames.com/games/yooka-laylee/

For DK of course.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Crabmeat is the best Sonic character;

Kiki > Crabmeat

 

[MainJPW]

Kiki > Crabmeat

Coconuts >>>>>>>> KiKi
Can't beat the original.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I dont know how i knew, but i knew that bringing up giving us more metroid would summon swampasaur. Like magic There he is. Spooky.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sex.

But better.

Pretty much, though Other M is like sex, but with the other person talking the entire time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I dont know how i knew, but i knew that bringing up giving us more metroid would summon swampasaur. Like magic There he is. Spooky.

You did?

Aw heck, Metroid isn't even my favorite series...

What the heck?

 

[GunGunW]

http://www.playtonicgames.com/games/yooka-laylee/

I mean like an actual DK64 style game starring DK himself, not a spiritual successor to Banjo

 

[Deleted member]

Well first I'm gonna have to ask you to calm down a bit because you sound like a child. Second, the reason why I deem Sakurai's reason a bit well "strange" is because he's been wrong on this whole "being true to the character" thing before.

Because being critical of asinine logic = "sounding like a child".
And this ought to be good....

Let's look at what he's said in the past, mind you I'm not going to quote him exactly because i don't know where to find the quote. However the long and short of it is that around the time Brawl was released a statement was made by Sakurai, that characters from peaceful games like animal crossing and Nintendogs would never been in smash because their nature doesn't lend itself well to fighting games. Flash forward a few years and Villager as well as Wii Fit trainer, are not only in the game but were the first new characters to be announced.

And....what point are you trying to make here, exactly?
He claims during Brawl's early production that characters that weren't suited for fighting wouldn't be playable for Brawl (note: he never said they would "never" be playable), and then for Smash 4's production, decides that having potential for individuality and an interesting style was more important to focus on than whether or not they were naturally combatants.
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakura...lager-and-wii-fit-trainer-are-in#.VUQUxlpFCUk
Big whoop.

Now as far as keeping true to a character's attributes I have two counter points

Spoiler

Same moveset as captain F for three games, how is that keeping true to the character?
We can go about how people like Falcondorf, but that's not the issue being discussed. He's not him and that's the problem so I have to ask, why is continuity a big issue for some and not others?

Ignoring that Ganondorf within his home franchise is inconsistent in his style to the point that it's basically impossible to "keep his moveset true to his character" as there is no set character to be true to, you've missed the entire context of what Sakurai was saying.
Ridley would require multiple changes to his base design solely for the purpose of balance.

Spoiler

He's small, You resized him here, what's the problem? Yet he's intimidating, really though if we're being real here Ridley is scary not because he's big its because of stuff like this

Spoiler

As I've pointed out to multiple people size is not the only issue. Nor it even the main one.
If it was the only issue, it wouldn't be an issue at all. Sakurai has "scaled down" characters in comparison to others in the past, Ganondorf to Link, Palutena to Pit (a more recent example), and Charizard/Mewtwo to Pikachu (though technically, they are more spot-on compared to non-Pokémon while Pikachu was more or less "scaled up" like Olimar but to a much less degree).
However, all they need is that scaling. Ridley needs more.
You can scale him down to be closer to Bowser's size, but that leaves potential balance issues with his large wings (hitbox issues) and his really long tail (hitbox issues/range issues), for example. That's where it gets to the tricky part. It would require specifically changing those aspects of his design significantly so he can function as a balanced character. Especially so in regards to the wings also being tied into flight, which is another can of worms balance-wise ON TOP of everything else.

That is a line Sakurai's not willing to cross. No other character in the game has had multiple aspects of their design removed or significantly altered for the sake of balance.

As for the Melee intro....after closer analysis, the detractors admittedly have a point when they mention perspective. Ridley's not scaled down. Brawl scales him up in comparison, yes, but Ridley's more accurate to the size gap between him and Samus in Super Metroid.

(Ironically, Sakurai might have been less issue in adding Ridley in Melee than nowadays. If only Ridley had been real popular in Japan before Melee started development...)

 

[Pakky]

Because being critical of asinine logic = "sounding like a child".
And this ought to be good....




And....what point are you trying to make here, exactly?
He claims during Brawl's early production that characters that weren't suited for fighting wouldn't be playable for Brawl (note: he never said they would "never" be playable), and then for Smash 4's production, decides that having potential for individuality and an interesting style was more important to focus on than whether or not they were naturally combatants.
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakura...lager-and-wii-fit-trainer-are-in#.VUQUxlp****
Big whoop.




Ignoring that Ganondorf within his home franchise is inconsistent in his style to the point that it's basically impossible to "keep his moveset true to his character" as there is no set character to be true to, you've missed the entire context of what Sakurai was saying.
Ridley would require multiple changes to his base design solely for the purpose of balance.




As I've pointed out to multiple people size is not the only issue. Nor it even the main one.
If it was the only issue, it wouldn't be an issue at all. Sakurai has "scaled down" characters in comparison to others in the past, Ganondorf to Link, Palutena to Pit (a more recent example), and Charizard/Mewtwo to Pikachu (though technically, they are more spot-on compared to non-Pokémon while Pikachu was more or less "scaled up" like Olimar but to a much less degree).
However, all they need is that scaling. Ridley needs more.
You can scale him down to be closer to Bowser's size, but that leaves potential balance issues with his large wings (hitbox issues) and his really long tail (hitbox issues/range issues), for example. That's where it gets to the tricky part. It would require specifically changing those aspects of his design significantly so he can function as a balanced character. Especially so in regards to the wings also being tied into flight, which is another can of worms balance-wise ON TOP of everything else.

That is a line Sakurai's not willing to cross. No other character in the game has had multiple aspects of their design removed or significantly altered for the sake of balance.

As for the Melee intro....after closer analysis, the detractors admittedly have a point when they mention perspective. Ridley's not scaled down. Brawl scales him up in comparison, yes, but Ridley's more accurate to the size gap between him and Samus in Super Metroid.

(Ironically, Sakurai might have been less issue in adding Ridley in Melee than nowadays. If only Ridley had been real popular in Japan before Melee started development...)

No, being an A-hole for Internet points makes you sound like a child.

In bold: He did that's why I brought it up but I can't find the article, the one you posted wasn't it.

Also
http://wiiudaily.com/2013/07/sakurai-on-fighting-characters-in-smash/

And now Ryu is in the game.


My point was that what Sakurai says isn't always, the case because he has the tendency to change his mind a lot .

Ya Know with Ganondorf you could, well I don't know, do anything else, like anything else than make him a clone of a character that he nothing to do with. Multiple styles or not, a least make him a swordsman , seeing as how he was one in Twilight princess and kind of one in Ocarina of time. S

In terms of the wings and him being able to fly or at least flying being a big part of is character...

Spoiler

Also Kirby can fly, and Dedede, and Meta Knight, just limit his jumps to what is it, I think 9 and the flying problem is solved. In terms of the hit box, give him the same restrictions as Charizard and we're good, taking him as a reference, and applying it too Ridley shouldn't be going to off model because his wings span seems to shift, form to form game to game so, yeah. . As far as his tail, well Shulk's range is just as broken so I don't really see the problem.

 

[A Distant Demon]

You know now im wondering what would happen if ridley had been playable in brawl. Who would everyone have been incessantly arguing about until they arent confirmed? K rool?

Who could fit the giant whole that ridley fills with his divisiveness?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Those are the mini-spurts I was talking about.
He's not exactly running running. Ganondorf isn't much of a runner. Like I said, he's more a leaper and walker.

Though I suppose that animation can be effectively used as a run......if he was fighting with a weapon.
That style of "hold sword over shoulder and charge into battle" run like a knight or a Viking warrior doesn't exactly work without the sword.

Spoiler

So instead, Ganondorf runs like a middle-aged man wearing heavy armor.

It only looks "silly" because it's Mr. "Never Runs" looking like a normal man out on a jog.
Melee's "sprint like Captain Falcon but much slower" run was much worse.

When i see Ganondorf IRL with his huf-huf run, i laugh. When i see Ganondorf running like you'd expect all-powerful wizard 2x bigger than any human to run, then it looks threatening (would be even more if screen would shake slightly or there would be more noticable GFX for his footsteps or at least any). I wasn't saying that he should run like he does in TP or WW. I was just saying that there is no reason for him to run like he never ran before.

Fair point, though I would argue that it looks better in concept than the end result (Ridley should not move his top jaw; he just shouldn't), so I don't think the comparison of a deliberately exaggerated Mario expression is an apt one.

Its hard to tell when he opens his mouth like this on such rough sketches and not on proper art/drawings. I was using that image because its just as ridicolous in my opinion.

Metal Face only looks "great" compared to his in-game model from Xenoblade, but when compared to a character....

He doesn't look nearly as good. Especially close up.
That's Assist quality resolution.

Still looks great outside of his chest's black parts/ribcage. A lot better than Ridley.

Still the same problem; it looks cleaner, but it doesn't really blend well with the Smash 4 cast.

...So, he should actually be made darker? Wow.

I did. Then I got curious and watched a different video that was Giga Bowser vs. Ridley. They were the same height.

You are blind then:

Spoiler

He looks like a kitten when compared to Brawl GB and like a kid when compared to Project M GB.

What's Metroid like?

Genocide, mass murdering, awesome weapons, creepy aliens, Ridley, dana-nana na-na-naaaaa~ and then there is Other M, which consists of the baby, fatalities, glossy enemies with high texture quality, who is that Pokemon (the answer is Ridley), next to no music outside of boss fights, authorization of defensive gear when you're pretty much dead, linear corridors, "can't let you speed booster that, Metroid" blocks, etc.

 

[Wintropy]

You know now im wondering what would happen if ridley had been playable in brawl. Who would everyone have been incessantly arguing about until they arent confirmed? K rool?

Who could fit the giant whole that ridley fills with his divisiveness?

K. Rool would probably have risen like a scaly green raft to fill the Ridley-sized shaped gap in the speculation community.

Or we could argue about veterans like Snake or Pichu.

 

[Pakky]

Why do people want Pichu? Honest question, not flaming, I just find that really odd.

 

[Burruni]

No, being an A-hole for Internet points makes you sound like a child.

My point was that what Sakurai says isn't always, the case because he has the tendency to change his mind a lot .

Ya Know with Ganondorf you could, well I don't know, do anything else, like anything else than make him a clone of a character that he nothing to do with. Multiple styles or not, a least make him a swordsman , seeing as how he was one in Twilight princess and kind of one in Ocarina of time. S

In terms of the wings and him being able to fly or at least flying being a big part of is character...

Spoiler

Also kirby can fly,and Dedede and Meta Knight, just limit his jumps to what is it I think 9 and the flying problem is solved. In terms of the hit box, give him the same restrictions as Charizard and we're good. As far as his tail, well Shulk's range is just as broken so I don't really see the problem.

1) "Change his mind a lot." The only character I've seen Sakurai pull a 180 on is Villager, who Sakurai said didn't fit in Smash due to being too "innocent and childish" to be a fighter. He's said about a lack of interest in Pac-Man and Fighting Game characters and in the age of Brawl development that Miis didn't have enough to run off of for a design and none of those latter three meant that they wouldn't be in Smash but that he didn't have an inspiration for such. All of these have over 6 years in time for characters to change from games and Sakurai's own perspective to change.

2) "Seeing as how he was one in Twilight Princess and kind of one in Ocarina of time." Please cite me a single time Ganondorf touched a sword in Ocarina of Time other than being attacked by one held by Link. He was an absurdly agile twin swordsman with a heavy middle-eastern vibe that was used for the Gerudo's in WIND WAKER but the fact is he's used three very different fighting styles in his three appearances. A warlock in OoT, an arabian swordsman in WW, and a dark knight in TP

3) Charizard's wings aren't as massive and naturally fold to not conceal the larger part of his body unlike Ridley. Charizard as a part-flying type didn't learn a Flying-type move naturally until Gen 3 and by the time Charizard became a fighter, that pool doubled with Wing Attack and Air Slash. Flying has been an ABILITY of Charizard, but not a core part to his appearances. Ridley has been seen in flight in every fight and only in Other M does he attack when not in the air.

4) "Limit to 9 jumps." being the second lightest character of the game and not having a true recovery move (Pound carries her a bit horizontally but it's very minor) and not far behind her have 5 jumps each. and only have 3, one more than the normal cast. Ridley being a character who would be at least as heavy as by sheer volume by no means should be given that absurd imbalance of jumping.

5) The issue Golden was talking about is how the Wings and Tail are such a core part of his design and abilities while being very long and disjointed form his very miniscule torso.

6) "Shulk's range is just as broken." Really? Then why has never been A-tier in a draft? Because he's got bad endlag to his smashes which have most of that range. His aerials besides F and N-air have bad delays as part of two-part and narrow hitboxes that make them hard to land with. And he also has tier recovery outside of Monado Jump which makes him light enough to make KO'ing even easier. And look back to the mods that have been done for Ridley. He doubles the normal length of who I believe was the longest standing character which would bring back the point of BALANCING this issue for the immense range it has as a hitbox and a hurtbox. This is going off the grounds of the mod that people often cite of "This proves Sakurai has no excuses."

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why do people want Pichu? Honest question, not flaming, I just find that really odd.

I want Pichu because I want to play him again. As someone who doesn't own Melee, I don't readily have access to the cut Melee veterans, and Pichu was by far my favorite. I would love to play Pichu again especially since everyone is getting balanced in ssb4. (If you're wondering why my profile says I main Pichu it's because I have played Melee, but only three or four times.)
The same reasons go to why I want Roy, and Young Link back. Minus the part where I said Pichu is my favorite. Not everybody can be my favorite.

 

[Kalimdori]

What's Metroid like?

Sex.

But better.

I want too put this in my signature so badly...

 

[BaganSmashBros]

You can scale him down to be closer to Bowser's size, but that leaves potential balance issues with his large wings (hitbox issues) and his really long tail (hitbox issues/range issues), for example. That's where it gets to the tricky part. It would require specifically changing those aspects of his design significantly so he can function as a balanced character. Especially so in regards to the wings also being tied into flight, which is another can of worms balance-wise ON TOP of everything else.

Bulls**t:

Spoiler

This is what his max range would be at size that wouldn't be too big to fit everything around him while still being noticably bigger than Samus. As for wings, they can be left without hitboxes. Like Pit's wings. Or most of Charizard's wings. Or just leave them like Charizard's wings and have then be put closer to his body unless he uses them. Like you'd expect a flying creature to fold its wings when they are not used.
If you want Other M Ridley for comparison, then here:

Spoiler

If you want Dedede casually swinging his hammer, then here:

Spoiler

And sorry for Dedede's creepy eyes - forgot to turn off that texture.

(Ironically, Sakurai might have been less issue in adding Ridley in Melee than nowadays. If only Ridley had been real popular in Japan before Melee started development...)

Too bad he was just a boss at that time.

and only in Other M does he attack when not in the air.

Metroid Prime 1 and Metroid Prime 3 say nope.

Ridley being a character who would be at least as heavy as by sheer volume by no means should be given that absurd imbalance of jumping.

Ridley is anorexic xenomorph-dragon-pterosaur thing. How can he be that heavy? He also is a flying creature and must be light for it to be possible, among other things.

6) "Shulk's range is just as broken." Really? Then why has never been A-tier in a draft? Because he's got bad endlag to his smashes which have most of that range. His aerials besides F and N-air have bad delays as part of two-part and narrow hitboxes that make them hard to land with. And he also has tier recovery outside of Monado Jump which makes him light enough to make KO'ing even easier. And look back to the mods that have been done for Ridley. He doubles the normal length of who I believe was the longest standing character which would bring back the point of BALANCING this issue for the immense range it has as a hitbox and a hurtbox. This is going off the grounds of the mod that people often cite of "This proves Sakurai has no excuses."

As if Ridley would have fast attacks. Does this looks like a fast attack:

Spoiler

Or this (ignore this one's insane range - he extends his tail here, something he wouldn't do if he would be playable to keep his range at bay):

Spoiler

Or this:

Spoiler

Those animations are straight from Other M, not mine. Im using Other M Ridley because this is the game where he had the most effective ground attacks (hate him in hard mode) since thats where most of his fight happens. The only fast attacks he has here are tail stabs and fire breath (uncharged). He is a slowpoke like Bowser. He has high speed only in the air and even then, we never see him use anything other than his tail and projectiles while in the air, so, we don't know how fast are his claw swipes here. It was done to give player warning that he is going to attack, yes, but it doesn't matters why. What matters is that he is slow. If you think i made those animations just to show Ridley as a slow as f*** guy, then you are overestimating me - they are too good for that.
Also, big characters always suck mostly because of their size making them a XXL-sized sandbag. Unless its Rosalina.
Bowser is biggest character in PM and Dedede has longer range than him btw. That mod is for PM. The other mod that uses horribly rigged model is smaller than Samus, so, we won't count it, especially when its not true Ridley model and instead is a model rigged over Charizard's bones, making him look stretched and awkward.

 

[Pakky]

1) "Change his mind a lot." The only character I've seen Sakurai pull a 180 on is Villager, who Sakurai said didn't fit in Smash due to being too "innocent and childish" to be a fighter. He's said about a lack of interest in Pac-Man and Fighting Game characters and in the age of Brawl development that Miis didn't have enough to run off of for a design. All of these have over 6 years in time for characters to change from games and Sakurai's own perspective to change.

2) "Seeing as how he was one in Twilight Princess and kind of one in Ocarina of time." Please cite me a single time Ganondorf touched a sword in Ocarina of Time other than being attacked by one held by Link. He was an absurdly agile twin swordsman with a heavy middle-eastern vibe that was used for the Gerudo's in WIND WAKER but the fact is he's used three very different fighting styles in his three appearances. A warlock in OoT, an arabian swordsman in WW, and a dark knight in TP

3) Charizard's wings aren't as massive and naturally fold to not conceal the larger part of his body unlike Ridley. Charizard as a part-flying type didn't learn a Flying-type move naturally until Gen 3 and by the time Charizard became a fighter, that pool doubled with Wing Attack and Air Slash. Flying has been an ABILITY of Charizard, but not a core part to his appearances. Ridley has been seen in flight in every fight and only in Other M does he attack when not in the air.

4) "Limit to 9 jumps." being the second lightest character of the game and not having a true recovery move (Pound carries her a bit horizontally but it's very minor) and not far behind her have 5 jumps each. and only have 3, one more than the normal cast. Ridley being a character who would be at least as heavy as by sheer volume by no means should be given that absurd imbalance of jumping.

5) The issue Golden was talking about is how the Wings and Tail are such a core part of his design and abilities while being very long and disjointed form his very miniscule torso.

6) "Shulk's range is just as broken." Really? Then why has never been A-tier in a draft? Because he's got bad endlag to his smashes which have most of that range. His aerials besides F and N-air have bad delays as part of two-part and narrow hitboxes that make them hard to land with. And he also has tier recovery outside of Monado Jump which makes him light enough to make KO'ing even easier. And look back to the mods that have been done for Ridley. He doubles the normal length of who I believe was the longest standing character which would bring back the point of BALANCING this issue for the immense range it has as a hitbox and a hurtbox. This is going off the grounds of the mod that people often cite of "This proves Sakurai has no excuses."

1) Alright

2) I said kind of .

3) Charizard's wings don't fold when he's idle. Charizard didn't become a fight until gen 4 was out, hence Lucario being in brawl.
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex/006.shtml naturally at level 36

Seeing as you said appearances, and seeing as how this is pokemon and the anime ties into things, Charizard has always flown and thus flying is a part of his character. Game wise he has always learned flying attacks, and able to avoid ground moves because of his flight.

4) understood

5) See 3 the tail can be shortened to Charizard's length and elongate when attacking

6) That forward smash though, and then there's Ike but yeah.

 

[Burruni]

1) Alright

2) I said kind of .

3) Charizard's wings don't fold when he's idle. Charizard didn't become a fight until gen 4 was out, hence Lucario being in brawl.
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex/006.shtml naturally at level 36

Seeing as you said appearances, and seeing as how this is pokemon and the anime ties into things, Charizard has always flown and thus flying is a part of his character. Game wise he has always learned flying attacks, and able to avoid ground moves because of his flight.

4) understood

5) See 3 the tail can be shortened to Charizard's length and elongate when attacking

6) That forward smash though, and then there's Ike but yeah.

A) Ganon. Not Ganondorf. That's like saying Sheik should start using a rapier because Zelda does in Hyrule Warriors. Let's get some thick lines between these characters.

B) I'll admit. I thought Charizard's wings kinda bent over themselves and partially on his body when idle. Don't see enough of the character. And "Charizard didn't become a fight until gen 4 was out" is something I just can't translate. He was always part-flying. My point being that being a flying type was always a part of Charizard. Being in the air wasn't. Gen 6 is the first one to give Charizard a default animation for such and his flying moves were always minimal. He's been able TO fly but actively doing so is not nearly as integral to who he is than it has been for Ridley. Charizard flies around almost as much as Gengar in their home works. Every Ridley fight has him in the air. Only in Other M has he had a single attack that wasn't aerial. THAT is the difference I'm making.

C) Shulk's F-Smash? You mean where it's a two-part hit like his B-Air, U-Air, and D-Air with only the second having "broken" reach?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

A) Ganon. Not Ganondorf. That's like saying Sheik should start using a rapier because Zelda does in Hyrule Warriors. Let's get some thick lines between these characters.

Thats a bad example because Sheik is still Zelda, just with some minor changes to appearance and different clothes. Better examples would be, say, Ridley using bombs and missiles because Meta Ridley and Omega Ridley can do so. Sorry, Pakky, but this one is true. Its not the same thing.