Character Discussion Thread

[Burruni]

He wasn't asking for a thread...

No. He was asking about the premise of Ridley as DLC. I was citing the foremost sticky thread on this entire section of Sm4sh character discussion area which stated that character support threads for characters in condition of being part of the game but noy playable, with Ridley being one of the few cited specifically, are staying locked which makes supporting him a moot point until the next game. Mods' decision, I'm just informing someone who overlooked the rules thread.

 

[Kalimdori]

No. He was asking about the premise of Ridley as DLC. I was citing the foremost sticky thread on this entire section of Sm4sh character discussion area which stated that character support threads for characters in condition of being part of the game but noy playable, with Ridley being one of the few cited specifically, are staying locked which makes supporting him a moot point until the next game. Mods' decision, I'm just informing someone who overlooked the rules thread.

He didn't make a thread, nor was asking for one. Simply bringing up the premise of supporting him, like you said. Not having a thread on Smashboards doesn't suddenly kill support for a character. (Or their chances for that matter) And last time I checked, the rules didn't censor all discussion of these characters, just forbade making threads about them.

 

[ElPanandero]

To sum things up... We had an argument about Ganondorf's moveset, and an argument about the creative liberties with Ike (By someone who mains a Pokémon. The series where creative liberties are taken with every playable character.) So now. Lets talk about something that isn't criticizing a character's moveset.

How about we all come up with a unique gimmick, and then try to place it with a character. (Smash worthy, or otherwise.)
For Example: Someone who has invincibility frames, but is somewhat laggy because of it. This could belong to King Boo because he is a ghost. He could phase out, and then attack upon reentry. I think this could allow him to play some mind games as well (I'm no expert, so I don't know).

I want a summoner. Andy has always been a pretty easy choice for it, so I support him

 

[Burruni]

He didn't make a thread, nor was asking for one. Simply bringing up the premise of supporting him, like you said. Not having a thread on Smashboards doesn't suddenly kill support for a character. (Or their chances for that matter) And last time I checked, the rules didn't censor all discussion of these characters, just forbade making threads about them.

Never said it was something "outlawed" or needed to be censored.
I was trying to highlight that the support for him is one that has basically been up-turned by the stage that we are at.
DLC of a character who has an active NPC role (Part of a move, Assist Trophy, or Boss are our big 3 cases) is basically the one rule that is unanimously agreed on due to the nature of interaction between the disc data and dlc.

 

[Ura]

So hypothetically speaking, if a deconfirmed character (AT, Final Smash, or Stage character) was made DLC, would that rule change?

 

[random rendum]

So, to change the conversation, how would this E3 lineup of character make you feel.

>Wolf Trailer
>Iwata Reveals Smash Pack 1, August Relase planned, has Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium, Dr. Mario Stage, Street Fighter Stage, and Shadow Moses (Later two not revealed until trailers)
>Roy Trailer
>Iwata lets Sakurai talk
>Sakurai explains changes to Roy, Koopalings having full titles, new patch, custom moves for all new characters added in patch
>States how Stages will also be DLC, and how he hopes to add plenty down the ride that will please both Competitive and non competitive players
>states that there are two more characters in the pac, heres a trailer
>Shows Snake sneaking onto the scene,knocking out Pac Man while hearing Cambell tell him about Pac Man, then hiding in a carboard box, snake montage
>Scene expands, see Mario, Sonic, and Megaman fighting on a street, suddenly, a hadoken is fired at snake and reveals his presence, everyone shocked, with Explanation points above their heads, Snake gets into fighting stance, and then Someone jumps in front of him and punches him, snake is sent back, Ryu montage
>Finally, states that to ready the community for tourney mode, they are adding one major change to for glory, alpha mode, which makes stages battlefield, free

Thoughts?

nothing, nothing here interests me

 

[Deathlightning21]

So hypothetically speaking, if a deconfirmed character (AT, Final Smash, or Stage character) was made DLC, would that rule change?

The real question is...

How long would it take to make NEW rules?

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

So hypothetically speaking, if a deconfirmed character (AT, Final Smash, or Stage character) was made DLC, would that rule change?

I imagine it would. If that said character was Ridley... the internet would probably break.

 

[Kalimdori]

So hypothetically speaking, if a deconfirmed character (AT, Final Smash, or Stage character) was made DLC, would that rule change?

No point. It would be Armageddon, Smashboards would crash for eternity, Melee and Brawl fans would happily get along, and the paradox of yet another made up rule being broken would create a time warp in which Ridley is confirmed and disconfirmed over and over and over again

 

[aldelaro5]

I want a summoner. Andy has always been a pretty easy choice for it, so I support him

How about Paper Mario?


The thing I realised and I wonder if I do this right, but if you take link, I see the partners of Paper Mario be the items of link. What I mean by this is they are essential to his playstyle, but don`t cover every moves. I saw some movesets that did that and....they were feeling weird (I mean, c'mon, he can have phisical attack like hammer, jumps and the stylish....also, yes, you could put stickers).

The thing about partners is I see them switchable, but they`ll onlt change one special....

You could have played with customs....but it's now unlikely they'll happen

 

[Ura]

No point. It would be Armageddon, Smashboards would crash for eternity, Melee and Brawl fans would happily get along, and the paradox of yet another made up rule being broken would create a time warp in which Ridley is confirmed and disconfirmed over and over and over again

Melee and Brawl fans getting along? I can't see that happening even with the end of the world happening.

 

[LasermasterA]

Y'know why Ike is a heavyweight fighter?

Because he wields a big ****ing sword.

Ragnell is a two-handed sword by design, but Ike wields it in one hand: this isn't just because he's strong and in good shape, it's because his father taught him to fight with an axe. Ike is an axe fighter by pedigree, he doesn't know how to fight with a sword in the same way that Marth or Link would. He wields his sword like he would an axe: swinging it, chopping it, cleaving it and letting the weight of the sword carry itself. He doesn't thrust or slash, he just pops the sword into the air and lets gravity take over. You aren't gonna say much in the way of formalities when there's four feet of solid steel splitting your skull open like the wrath of the heavens.

Could Ike be super-fast and agile like he is in Radiant Dawn? Probably, but that would totally upset the balance of the game. Having a character that hits like a truck and can outrun Captain Falcon is just asking to break the game; unless you want to go down the route of making him Little Mac, which is unbalanced in a whole 'nother way. The trick with Ike is that he's heavy because his sword is ****ing heavy: it's basically an axe with longer range and a narrower blade. The principle, how and ever, remains the same: swing and splatter. Even taking game balance out of the picture, Ike is a heavyweight because the game could do with more heavyweights; not everybody has to be a glass cannon lightning bruiser, otherwise we'd be playing Captain Falcon Fisticuffs All-Star Battle Royale Melee Mk II, not Super Smash Bros.

Heh?

I understand your reasoning of why Ike is a heavyweight fighter, but I had to point this one out:

Ike is a sword fighter by pedigree. Not an axe fighter. His dad taught him the sword even though he wielded an axe himself. Ike also hence passed the art of the sword to his sister. Throughout the game it is pointed out that Ike has the same swordsmanship as his dad. His father started to wield an axe 'cuz story-line spoiler reasons even though inherently he was a master swordsman. Even at the end of the series it is pointed out that Ike has become as fierce a swordsman as his father was at the peak of his career. He learns an axe in Radiant Dawn, that too at the final promotion of the game - pretty much near the absolute end.

He wields a 2-handed sword in one hand cause he is a master of the one-handed sword. Add his brute strength and voila, a 2-handed sword being used in a one-handed style. Just sorting out any confusion although I guess you have played RD.

Putting that aside, I am still pretty much satisfied with how Ike is presented in Smash. He doesn't have to run as fast as Falcon, his moves demonstrate his power and swordsmanship adequately enough. And he is still able to perform his agile feats such as Aether. There is not much of running in FE either, just fine sword-wielding by Ike and agile dodging (although not as OP in Radiant Dawn as in Path of Radiance).

He is a decent heavy-weight who translates well from his FE games without breaking the game. I wouldn't mind him becoming a teensy bit faster though in Smash

Edit: Sorry for bringing this up again. Looks like the thread has moved on >.<

 

[Pakky]

how likely is Rayman?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

how likely is Rayman?

After Snake and Ryu, he's probably the most likely third party.

 

[Pakky]

After Snake and Ryu, he's probably the most likely third party.

Wow, didn't know Snake was so heavily requested to come back, I see it happening though along with Wolf. Though I don't think Ice climbers are coming back in any way

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wow, didn't know Snake was so heavily requested to come back, I see it happening though along with Wolf. Though I don't think Ice climbers are coming back in any way

Yeah. Ice Climber's problems aren't something DLC can fix.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I want a summoner. Andy has always been a pretty easy choice for it, so I support him

Then just support Monita.

As for the whole Ike-debacle two pages ago, I remember reading that Ike in Brawl was just the result of Sakurai wanting a heavyweight swordsman.

He took a trope, slapped Ike on it and called it a day. Which is fine by me, he's unique this way.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Then just support Monita.

As for the whole Ike-debacle two pages ago, I remember reading that Ike in Brawl was just the result of Sakurai wanting a heavyweight swordsman.

He took a trope, slapped Ike on it and called it a day. Which is fine by me, he's unique this way.

I think it fits him, though I do think he should be a tad bit faster. It should be noted that as I recall, IS did recommend he add Ike.


I didn't get involved in that debate but personally I think Ike is fine. He does basically fight like he's fighting with an axe, even though its actually a sword. I'd have preferred if he had Ragnell's shockwave attack over Eruption, though. (Is nice that one custom gives him a shockwave at the end of Aether.)



Still don't agree with Ganondorf and don't think Ganondorf fits at all but I don't want to get into that debate again. I think Ganondorf is horribly represented.

 

[Kenith]

I think Ganondorf is horribly represented and I like his moveset. It's just so lackluster for Ganondorf by itself.
I remember someone in another thread saying that Ganondorf's actual playstyle fits him perfectly...but the moveset does not.
And I agree with that completely.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Ike is pretty bad competitively man. That man will never win a tournament unless it's project m where he is actually very good. Ike will need buffs if he is to ever be competitive. A walk/run speed buff won't make him broken at all.

???

Ike is great. Where did you get the idea that he's bad???

 

[Wintropy]

???

Ike is great. Where did you get the idea that he's bad???

Agreed. A good Ike is something to be feared and respected.

 

[Kenith]

???
Ike is great. Where did you get the idea that he's bad???

Agreed. A good Ike is something to be feared and respected.

My friend mains Ike.
That range though.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ike isnt terrible but he certainly isnt top tier

 

[ElPanandero]

Then just support Monita.

As for the whole Ike-debacle two pages ago, I remember reading that Ike in Brawl was just the result of Sakurai wanting a heavyweight swordsman.

He took a trope, slapped Ike on it and called it a day. Which is fine by me, he's unique this way.

Or I could support the character I like haha

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Monita? You mean that one character that Shokio knows as the "flying monitor ***** from
Nintendo Land"? Best idea of a troll character for the next game in case Sakurai might view Style Savvy as "too humane" for Smash.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Monita? You mean that one character that Shokio knows as the "flying monitor ***** from
Nintendo Land"? Best idea of a troll character for the next game in case Sakurai might view Style Savvy as "too humane" for Smash.

I actually got the moveset ready

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The only change I would want for Ike would be the projectile from RD, but even so I think it would be OP if they did it.

 

[Pakky]

So I'm going to ask another empty simple question, how likely is Ridley, because Sakurai is full it and I don't believe his words

I want master Higgins.....

 

[Wolfie557]

I don't think there could ever be a more trolly character than....

Spoiler

......or actually, Navi if they make it scream hey listen for every attack!!!

The only change I would want for Ike would be the projectile from RD, but even so I think it would be OP if they did it.

My OCD dislikes that empty corner in you signature.

 

[Frostwraith]

The only change I would want for Ike would be the projectile from RD, but even so I think it would be OP if they did it.

One of his Aether variants has him shoot a small shockwave with the Ragnell upon hitting the ground, though the range is short and isn't too strong either.

So I'm going to ask another empty simple question, how likely is Ridley, because Sakurai is full it and I don't believe his words

I pretty much think Ridley has a big fat zero chance of appearing considering his boss role.

Same goes for any Assist Trophy, other bosses and Final Smash cameos (like Chrom and Dunban).

I don't believe they will add NPCs as DLC characters. It's unreasonable from a design point of view.

 

[Burruni]

So I'm going to ask another empty simple question, how likely is Ridley, because Sakurai is full it and I don't believe his words

Effectively 0% for Smash 4. Believe him or not those are his words on why he wasn't made playable in this game, nor brawl and he is the one at the helm here for the project and in general the character selection process.

As far as our (The Community at Large) understanding of the interaction of on-disc content and DLC makes the argument moot because the latter can't change the former. Ridley has a major active role in the game as the boss of Pyrosphere. Like Yellow Devil, Ghirahim, Midna, Prince Sable, Skull Kid, Isabelle, Metal Face, Riki, Dunban, any of the other MegaMan incarnations, Kamek, Toad, Chrom, etc., they have an active role as an NPC in the game and we're not having an NPC and Fighter of the same character at the same time.

And as to the argument that "The Pyrosphere boss isn't the REAL Ridley, it's the 'Roidley' clone from Other M!" We point you to the trophy on Smash Wii U with the character being "Roidley" but the description and game date signifies him as the same leader of the Space Pirates that has been present since Metroid 1.

When Smash 5 comes, especially if Sakurai isn't at the helm (which seems incredibly likely with how exhausted he keeps saying he becomes after Smash titles), then Ridley is a front-runner for a newcomer if the project head and team are ready to try to make him a scaled size that can retain the intimidation factor that Ridley is known for despite his normally very lanky bodyshape.

However, this is discussion for Smash 4 DLC. And by all means of general consensus, Ridley is as locked out of the roster as he was back in April when he was teased as a boss no matter the arguments people made.

I AM a Metroid fan. Ridley is by far the most logical newcomer for the series with Dark Samus as a runner up in terms of the merit of the character. However, he's not going to be happening this game for various reasons.

 

[Wolfie557]

Decided to list the characters I support in order of most to least, left to right.

One's like K Rool + Wolf under mean in same place which in this case, both second. Mii's at end are just more archetypes.(specifically 'mage')

edit: just thought it may not be completely accurate as I done it pretty quickly... so I'll update after E3.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So I'm going to ask another empty simple question, how likely is Ridley, because Sakurai is full it and I don't believe his words

I want master Higgins.....

For smash 4? Zero. Stage boss and explicitly stated by sakyrai why he is out.

For the next smash? Not even worth arguing about. Dont even know for sure who the developer will be. . .

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One of his Aether variants has him shoot a small shockwave with the Ragnell upon hitting the ground, though the range is short and isn't too strong either.


I pretty much think Ridley has a big fat zero chance of appearing considering his boss role.

Same goes for any Assist Trophy, other bosses and Final Smash cameos (like Chrom and Dunban).

I don't believe they will add NPCs as DLC characters. It's unreasonable from a design point of view.

I meant more like a full on projectile. Like how it appears in Radiant Dawn. I guess it could work kinda like Thoron, but more like a wave and not as big. Idk kinda hard to describe without seeing it.

 

[Frostwraith]

I meant more like a full on projectile. Like how it appears in Radiant Dawn. I guess it could work kinda like Thoron, but more like a wave and not as big. Idk kinda hard to describe without seeing it.

I know what you're talking about.

Radiant Dawn was my first FE game.

I know that you meant an actual projectile move, something that Sakurai once considered for his moveset.

I was merely stating the custom move does make a small allusion to the fact the Ragnell can fire projectiles.

 

[Kenith]

Decided to list the characters I support in order of most to least, left to right.

One's like K Rool + Wolf under mean in same place which in this case, both second. Mii's at end are just more archetypes.(specifically 'mage')

edit: just thought it may not be completely accurate as I done it pretty quickly... so I'll update after E3.

Well, I'm torn. I only want to actively support the one character, but at the same time they're considered so monumentally unlikely that I don't know if it's worth it, or if I just shift focus to Captain Toad and Inkling, which are too obvious, or Excite Biker, who's also extremely unlikely.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know what you're talking about.

Radiant Dawn was my first FE game.

I know that you meant an actual projectile move, something that Sakurai once considered for his moveset.

I was merely stating the custom move does make a small allusion to the fact the Ragnell can fire projectiles.

Actually, iirc the wave travels about 2 Ikes. Haven't played RD, is the shockwave able to be used 2 spaces away?

 

[Frostwraith]

Actually, iirc the wave travels about 2 Ikes. Haven't played RD, is the shockwave able to be used 2 spaces away?

Like most ranged moves, the Ragnell fires shockwaves when used 2 squares away.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Like most ranged moves, the Ragnell fires shockwaves when used 2 squares away.

So that custom's shockwave having piss poor range kinda makes sense. Aether Drive still better

 

[MagnesD3]

???

Ike is great. Where did you get the idea that he's bad???

Idk maybe because he hasn't even come close to winning a tournament and on paper he is bottom mid tier at best. The man isn't good.