• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Character Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
13,566
Location
Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
:4zss:"I wear heels and have bigger breasts now, not to mention I'll have sportswear that can be considered too revealing"
And someone said Amaterasu wouldn't fit in smash because she is "Anatomically correct". (For a small detail that they would obviously get rid of, and nobody would care.)
Super Smash Bros added a puppet-fighter and mech-fighter style characters this game, the latter of which was I style I really wanted to see in this game. We need a morph-fighter character. Similar to Shuma Gorath and Arakune... Someone who can morph their body to attack opponents, summon minions, use magic and brings a whole wealth of crazy inspiration for moves and attacks. I wonder what such character exists....... :awesome:
Ditto. That's quite literally the only Nintendo character that can do that.
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,724
Location
Canada, Quebec (or Rogeuport if you want)
NNID
aldelaro5
3DS FC
3050-7721-6617
And someone said Amaterasu wouldn't fit in smash because she is "Anatomically correct". (For a small detail that they would obviously get rid of, and nobody would care.)

Ditto. That's quite literally the only Nintendo character that can do that.
no, you forget this guy:


Who his name should not be mentioned (lol), but between him and ditto, I would pick him :)
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
I mean I associate Ryu with Nintendo because Street Fighter II and Street Fighter II Turbo were the best and 2nd best selling 3rd party SNES games, as well as the 4th and 7th best selling SNES games period. Street Fighter II is the game(s) in the series that everyone knows about, and the game(s) that people think of when thinking about Street Fighter or Ryu, and those people usually associate those games with the SNES, because that's where most people played them, so that's kind of a big deal in my eyes. The way I see it the Street Fighter II series is to SNES as the Mega Man series is to NES, but that's just me. I also associate Pac-Man and Nintendo together because of the connection they have through arcade gaming, and because of all of the times him and Mario have crosed over. It also just has to do with fact that I grew up playing their biggest games on Nintendo systems, so I personally tend to associate them with Nintendo, that's why I said the idea of them in Smash would make ME happy as a Nintendo fan.
The truth of the matter is no matter how well Street Fighter II has done on consoles, it will be associated primarily with arcades first and foremost.

And even if that wasn't the case, Ryu might have broken out with SF2, but since then he's still appeared in many high profile games, most of which don't find themselves on Nintendo systems, so the associations most people carry for him lead them elsewhere. Ofc there are exceptions out there, but general associations aren't made through exceptions.

No one can argue that he isn't iconic, but there's a reason he wasn't in demand before this leak.
 
Last edited:

---

謹賀新年!
Super Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
13,602
Location
Michigan
NNID
TripleDash
3DS FC
1719-3728-6991
Switch FC
SW-1574-3686-1211
No one can argue that he isn't iconic, but there's a reason he wasn't in demand before this leak.
There are a lot of characters that only get popular because of "leaks." Pac Man, Chorus Men, Ray Man, etc.

Granted I can somewhat understand, but in the end it feels shallow.
 

MainJPW

M.T.A
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
7,834
Location
Angel Island Zone
There are a lot of characters that only get popular because of "leaks." Pac Man, Chorus Men, Ray Man, etc.

Granted I can somewhat understand, but in the end it feels shallow.
Chorus Men especially. The whole Rayman fiasco I feel simply gave him a lot more exposure.
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
9,724
Location
Canada, Quebec (or Rogeuport if you want)
NNID
aldelaro5
3DS FC
3050-7721-6617
The truth of the matter is no matter how well Street Fighter II has done on consoles, it will be associated primarily with arcades first and foremost.

And even if that wasn't the case, Ryu might have broken out with SF2, but since then he's still appeared in many high profile games, most of which don't find themselves on Nintendo systems, so the associations most people carry for him lead them elsewhere. Ofc there are exceptions out there, but general associations aren't made through exceptions.

No one can argue that he isn't iconic, but there's a reason he wasn't in demand before this leak.
Also, add that Sakurai said characters already from fighting game wouldn't feel right or something.

I guess he changed again....
 

MoveMan1

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
308
Also, add that Sakurai said characters already from fighting game wouldn't feel right or something.

I guess he changed again....
Ryu is not guaranteed. No-one is until they get a reveal. Sakurai changing his mind on certain things he said in the past does not mean he will change his mind on all the things he said. I don't see him putting in Ayumi or Excitebiker any time soon.
 

FalKoopa

Rainbow Waifu
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 16, 2012
Messages
32,231
Location
India/भारत
3DS FC
1650-3685-3998
Switch FC
SW-5545-7990-4793
There are a lot of characters that only get popular because of "leaks." Pac Man, Chorus Men, Ray Man, etc.

Granted I can somewhat understand, but in the end it feels shallow.
Is it a coincidence that they all end with 'Man'or 'Men'? I think not :p

:231:
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

See You Next Year, Baby
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
26,203
Location
Chicago, Illinois
NNID
Takamaru64
3DS FC
1375-7346-9605
Switch FC
SW-8277-6509-2593
Chorus Men especially. The whole Rayman fiasco I feel simply gave him a lot more exposure.
But you can't deny that a Rhythm Heaven character would be rather nice, too bad he/she never made the cut in the end. Plus, not many people would even bother voting any characters from the games in the Smash Ballot.
 

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
28,373
Location
https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
Having a large amount of move set potentials doesn't make you special and you could argue many third-party characters also have great move set potentials. Doesn't mean that they're a good choice.
You can argue, but the real deal is how much they offer for a moveset. That's actually the first step when Sakurai decides third-parties for Smash.
http://www.gamnesia.com/news/sakura...-third-party-characters-in-smash#.VTK3Pab0hUQ
"First off, I think about which third-party characters would make suitable guests for the game before beginning any negotiations. It goes without saying that Mega Man is a guest who could fit Smash Bros. with his range of moves and attacks.
If you look at the gameplay of the Bayonetta games, there is a large (I mean seriously large) range of moves Bayonetta offers, and all of them are very diverse and unlike any character we currently have in the roster. She would arguably be the most stand-out and most promising newcomer since Snake. I highly suggest (and NOT ignore) reading back to the moveset analysis I posted earlier.
The moment Sakurai starts considers to Bayonetta, I'm betting he'll be be impressed by how much she offers, it's a big plus for her that could put Bayonetta at a high priority for a playable character in my opinion.

And nearly two million isn't exactly a lot when you consider how well Metal Gear, Mega Man, Sonic, Street Fighter, and Pac-Man have sold in comparison. She is still a drop in the water in comparison to these five.
It's still saying a lot and it's pretty impressive, far more than most average third-party IPs that have sold.

As for his "high popularity" it's a bandwagon that is already receding.
Perhaps it would mean more if he had consistently high fan demand like Sonic and Mega Man did.
Pretty much every candidate has bandwagoning anyway, it's a very irrelevant point and it's not something Sakurai will take into consideration when picking characters, I mean how can you see Sakurai considering bandwagoning at all?

And as for Smash DLC, would Shovel Knight really sell as well as the likes of legendary third-party characters like Ryu, Snake as well as Nintendo characters like King K. Rool and Isaac? I think some would be turned off by the fact that indie characters would seriously lower the standards for third-party characters and I myself would not buy them out of protest (I hardly find them special additions like the third-parties we already got).
Yes, as long they have an attracting design and great moveset, I don't think people will be worrying about the "iconic" problems and the majority will be buying them immediately. The only people who will really care about the "iconic" stuff is the minority who are hardcore gaming/Nintendo fans and some people here in Smashboards.

Characters like Snake, Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Slime, Bomberman all fit this but can you really say that Bayonetta or Shovel Knight comes even remotely close
I'm not saying they have to be iconic, for the bajillionth time, as long as they have great qualities, great moveset potential, and an attracting design they have the potential to sell as well, if not, even more than other DLC characters.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I don't like the idea that Super Smash Bros. should be a celebration of gaming in general and this is coming from someone who was one of the biggest Mega Man supporters for SSB 3DS & Wii U.

The thing that makes Super Smash Bros. as a series special is that it brings together various Nintendo franchises together both world famous and the more obscure ones like Game & Watch and Mother. I myself obviously love the concept of third-party characters in Smash, specifically ones that would make a special addition. So far, Snake, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Sonic have all done this and Ryu could potentially pull it off as well based off of him being a fighting game legend.

But here's the thing; we already have more third-party newcomers this game than we did in Brawl and it's not like we have a shortage of good Nintendo characters either (even if most of them are less well known than the batch we got in previous games). While none of the choices have been bad by any means, I do feel as we need to ask ourselves how far we really want to go when it comes to third-party characters. Like we know that third-parties aren't necessarily restricted to one character, but Street Fighter is still a legendary series that pioneered fighting games. I don't see anyone from Sega or Namco outside of maybe Tekken (and honestly, I am still skeptical about how they'll get Ryu to work) that would be considered a legendary series. As for other companies, Square Enix has Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy and I'm definitely on board with Slime or Slime & Chocobo because of the massive impact on games both franchise has had and I personally like the idea of having either as playable characters. Tecmo Koei has Ryu Hayabusa who I feel would be alright but I feel we can do better. Level 5 has Professor Layton which I feel has potential to be a legendary franchise in the future, but I don't feel it is quite there yet. Then there is Konami and I really do think that if any company should have two characters, it is this one. Snake obviously merits a return. Simon Belmont is okay, but I feel Bomberman would be the better choice because he's more of a Hudson Soft representative than anything and he helped defined multi-player gaming (plus he would be a perfect fit for Smash). Overall I feel as Slime/Slime & Chocobo and Bomberman are the best choices for third-party newcomers with Ryu Hayabusa, Layton, and Simon Belmont being okay but I can't really get behind them either. But as I said, where do we draw the line? When does it get to the point where Super Smash Bros. loses sight of it's main selling point; bringing in Nintendo's best to beat the ever loving crap out of each other? Frankly if we have to resort to characters like Bayonetta, more Sonic characters (and this is coming from someone who likes Tails), and indie characters, I'd rather see Super Smash Bros. die.

As for the question of third-party characters having ties with Nintendo, obviously everyone we have seen has at least some sort of relationship with Nintendo even if Snake is more associated with Sony platforms and Ryu with arcades. Neither are bad choices, but given that Smash Bros. is supposed to be about Nintendo characters coming together to fight each other, I'd rather if our third-party choices be ones that are more closely associated with Nintendo. This was a big reason why I so passionately supported Mega Man and it is also why the third-parties I do want to see are geared towards character that just happened to have strong relationships with Nintendo (Slime and Bomberman).
There are a lot of characters that only get popular because of "leaks." Pac Man, Chorus Men, Ray Man, etc.

Granted I can somewhat understand, but in the end it feels shallow.
When I saw Pac-Man and Chrom brought up, it was mostly in the context of them being likely additions which was partially was I was apprehensive about them being added. Now Pac-Man did turn out a lot better than I thought he would but there are good reasons why Chrom was such a poor choice and when it came to an Awakening character, I'm glad Sakurai put in Robin instead; it at least dispel the notion that Fire Emblem was just lords with swords (even if I am pretty excited about Roy likely returning but then again, I've supported him for years).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
Can I just say that I really don't think "being associated with Nintendo" is as important as some suggest?

Sonic didn't get in because of his association with Nintendo, nor did he get his fame from them. He was crazy popular and people wanted him in for the idea of Mario vs. Sonic. His trailer even showed that. The first thing you think of with Sonic is SEGA.

Pac-Man probably got in because of Namco, and because he's freaking Pac-Man. He got his fame from the arcade, not Nintendo consoles. Part of what made him such an epic addition is because it became Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man. Again, first thing you think about is Pac-Man in the arcade, not because he's closely related to Nintendo.

Mega Man is pretty much the only one you can argue has extremely close ties with Nintendo at his core. However, I would argue a lot of what got him picked was his insane popularity. Mega Man DID start on Nintendo and most of his legacy is from Nintendo, so he has that. But I personally don't think that was a big reason why he was picked.

Either way, it isn't consistent logic and severely constricts 3rd party characters getting into Smash in my humble opinion. As others have said, no other game can compete with Smash when Smash has so many gaming icons in it.

Not that the other two don't have history with Nintendo (far from it), its just that the idea of being heavily related is overstated.
 
Last edited:

---

謹賀新年!
Super Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
13,602
Location
Michigan
NNID
TripleDash
3DS FC
1719-3728-6991
Switch FC
SW-1574-3686-1211
It is shallow.
IDK At least for the most part it's characters who have something to back them for playable status and have a small starting fanbase. And after a "leak" it is natural for a discussion to be created/bumped.

I won't lie though, no one cared about a Namco Bandai character until that 2012 announcement. In the older two threads with ~4000+ pages they only came up once in a blue moon, and even the it was a list of deserving 3rd Parties, not who people wanted. Once it happened, enter 2 1/2 years of people arguing Pac Man is boring (which is funny considering that was Sakurai's opinion in Brawl).


It's just the "first post/thread" mentality that bugs me, especially as a mod as I have to decide which threads to lock based upon who actually in interested in the long term. It's cool that you're hyped and whatnot, but please make a discussion that you plan to be involved in.
 

CrusherMania1592

Deaf Smasher
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
6,334
3DS FC
5472-7454-3545
Can we all just agree that Bayonetta isn't a good idea to put in Smash no matter how many people are gonna go nuts for her? Her chances are about as high as Geno's
 

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,123
Location
Still up Peach's dress.
Can we all just agree that Bayonetta isn't a good idea to put in Smash no matter how many people are gonna go nuts for her? Her chances are about as high as Geno's
Are we therefore in agreement that Geno's chances should logically be 0%?

Wait, people didn't expect Pac-Man? The first real video game character ever?
People expected him, they just hoped he wouldn't get in. Why? Take your pick from below:
a.) 'Not as cool as Megaman' b.) 'No moveset potential' c.) 'Ghostly Adventures' d.) 'I don't like him'

The above are all actual answers I saw being given by cretins who genuinely did not want MR. VIDEO GAMES HIMSELF in because they figured he wasn't as big a deal as Sonic or frigging Megaman.

I mean seriously, everyone's grandma knows Pac-Man.
 
Last edited:

Marrow

Speak softly and carry a Thick Club
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
703
Location
did you check under the couch cushions
3DS FC
1993-9950-1450
Can we all just agree that Bayonetta isn't a good idea to put in Smash no matter how many people are gonna go nuts for her? Her chances are about as high as Geno's
Her chances are definitely higher than Geno's, considering Nintendo stuck their neck out to help with Bayonetta 2. It's better than the Nintendo-SquareEnix relationship, at least. That's not saying either are likely, though.
 

BluePikmin11

Akko is my dear daughter!
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
28,373
Location
https://twitter.com/BPikmin11
NNID
blue
Can we all just agree that Bayonetta isn't a good idea to put in Smash no matter how many people are gonna go nuts for her? Her chances are about as high as Geno's
I suggest reading the moveset analysis I posted before you say she's not a good choice at all, it seems most of you are ignoring it as if it was nothing.
Honestly, aside from her erotic behavior in the game, there's is a lot to like about her with moveset potential once you see gameplay.
 

Frostwraith

The Demon King
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
16,679
Location
Portugal
NNID
Frostwraith357
Bayonetta is the kind of character that goes completely against Sakurai's criteria for 3rd parties.

She's not a huge video game character by any stretch, she's not iconic, she has no major history, she is not recognized by non-gamers.

She had two games that, while good and well-received, weren't successful. In fact, if Nintendo hadn't the initiative to fund the 2nd game, it wouldn't have seen the light of day, as no other publisher was willing to invest on such a project.

That's how insignificant she is when compared to legends like Sonic or Pac-Man. She's a niche character of a niche franchise.

The only niche characters in Smash are those owned by Nintendo because Smash is primarily a Nintendo crossover. 3rd parties adhere to higher standards. They have to be iconic and worth the license Nintendo has to pay for.

People must be convinced to buy the game/DLC upon seeing a character in Smash. All sorts of players have to be impressed and hyped by a third party appearing in Smash. They have to be characters people know they AREN'T Nintendo characters. This is the appeal of a third party character in Smash.
 

Strofirko

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
3,982
Too many third party debate around here...
If we get 2 third party characters after ryu will be already a miracle.
 
Last edited:

Frostwraith

The Demon King
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
16,679
Location
Portugal
NNID
Frostwraith357
I'm pretty sure we don't need any more proof the DLC is real buuut:
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/33242d/3ds_king_dedede_classic_bug_hints_at_new_stage/

Sorry if old.
Any Kirby character may appear on Battlefield now.

Two Kirby songs were found along with the Roy/Ryu stuff.

My guess is that the game is attempting to load another Kirby stage, but since it fails, it loads Battlefield as a fail safe.

Classic mode simply matches characters and stages based on series. You choose paths with series symbols, after all, so picking the Mushroom symbol will have the game load Mario characters and pick a Mario stage. If a series doesn't have enough characters, the extra spots are filled with random characters.
 
Last edited:

Spinosaurus

Treasure Hunter
Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
3,655
NNID
WarioLand
Any Kirby character may appear on Battlefield now.

Two Kirby songs were found along with the Roy/Ryu stuff.

My guess is that the game is attempting to load another Kirby stage, but since it fails, it loads Battlefield as a fail safe.

Classic mode simply matches characters and stages based on series. You choose paths with series symbols, after all, so picking the Mushroom symbol will have the game load Mario characters and pick a Mario stage. If a series doesn't have enough characters, the extra spots are filled with random characters.
Funny that, I actually did play Kirby on Battlefield yesterday, but it was Multi Kirby, and considering 90% of the time you play Multi Mii on Battlefield I didn't take note of that.

Until now. Heh.
 
Last edited:

Deathlightning21

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
1,137
Location
HypeZone!
NNID
Deathlightning21
3DS FC
1779-0225-2026
Bayonetta is the kind of character that goes completely against Sakurai's criteria for 3rd parties.

She's not a huge video game character by any stretch, she's not iconic, she has no major history, she is not recognized by non-gamers.

She had two games that, while good and well-received, weren't successful. In fact, if Nintendo hadn't the initiative to fund the 2nd game, it wouldn't have seen the light of day, as no other publisher was willing to invest on such a project.

That's how insignificant she is when compared to legends like Sonic or Pac-Man. She's a niche character of a niche franchise.

The only niche characters in Smash are those owned by Nintendo because Smash is primarily a Nintendo crossover. 3rd parties adhere to higher standards. They have to be iconic and worth the license Nintendo has to pay for.

People must be convinced to buy the game/DLC upon seeing a character in Smash. All sorts of players have to be impressed and hyped by a third party appearing in Smash. They have to be characters people know they AREN'T Nintendo characters. This is the appeal of a third party character in Smash.
Remember when Sakurai said No more DLC? yeah man, good times!
 

Frostwraith

The Demon King
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
16,679
Location
Portugal
NNID
Frostwraith357
Funny that, I actually did play Kirby on Battlefield yesterday, but it was Multi Kirby, and considering 90% of the time you play Multi Mii on Battlefield I didn't take note of that.

Until now. Heh.
Only Miis appear in Battlefield. (Well, Kirby characters now appear as well, but it's an unintended case.)

Multi-Man teams of other characters appear on their home stages as well. It applies to any battle type.

Remember when Sakurai said No more DLC? yeah man, good times!
Except he never said that. At the time of that interview, he said didn't have plans at that moment, pondering on the advantages and disadvantages of DLC and how add-on content would be distributed.

Besides, data miners had found evidence towards DLC as early as few days after the 3DS version's release in Japan.

Not my fault people misinterpret Sakurai's words and spread misinformation, but knowing this fandom, it comes off as rather unsurprising.
 

Starphoenix

How Long Have I Been Asleep?
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
8,993
Location
Cyberspace
NNID
GalaxyPhoenix
3DS FC
2122-6914-9465
$10 says the new Kirby stage is from the Kirby Fighters game from Triple Deluxe. The levels are already practically Smash Bros stages.
 

Frostwraith

The Demon King
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
16,679
Location
Portugal
NNID
Frostwraith357
$10 says the new Kirby stage is from the Kirby Fighters game from Triple Deluxe. The levels are already practically Smash Bros stages.
It's likely going to be Dream Land 64, since the Gourmet Race remix from Smash 64 was found in the game's data. The other Kirby song found is Forest Stage from Kirby Air Ride.

Check the songs here: https://tcrf.net/Super_Smash_Bros._for_Nintendo_3DS

The files are internally named:
snd_bgm_F27_AIR_MoriStage_3DS = Forest Stage - Kirby Air Ride
snd_bgm_T09_SDX_PupupuLand_3DS = Dream Land - Smash Bros. 64
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom