Character Discussion Thread

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Japanese cultural references? Please tell, what cultural references exist in SSB4, why do they make the game better and why couldn't a Western company integrate them? It's not as though Sakurai doesn't pull a little from Western themes when he chooses to do so, like with Little Mac. I see more Japanese design influences vs. content choices, which is definitely something I'd like to see done away with (such as mediocre online because it's more traditional in Japan to play among a close-knit group of friends than online).

Also, Retro is now large enough to work on multiple projects at once, so they might not be preoccupied for as long as you'd think (and why would they choose to revamp Murasame Castle again?)

I don't see what's wrong with Retro deciding to do something new. Retro doesn't owe anyone anything. And honestly, I don't think they're going to do another Metroid game anytime soon. I think right now they're working on a new project, then they'll probably do DKCR3 to finish the new trilogy and maybe lay the groundwork for another developer to pick up the reins. As for what comes after I don't know.

I mentioned Retro to begin with because there was a form of bandwagon on NeoGaf that formed after the announcement of Murasame Castle's localization that Retro would be the best choice to handle the franchise other than Platinum Games (In which Kamiya mentioned having interest in and actually played the original title). And this was before Sakurai had revealed him as an Assist Trophy a few days later to much of their surprise. I wouldn't really call it a large group per se, but people were mostly on board with it because of their fantastic work on Donkey Kong and Metroid.

Part of the problem with that idea in general is that they are a Western developer and normally work on projects that have a huge following in the West. Metroid Prime worked because it's s series that had more of a fandom in the West in comparison to other Nintendo IP's while DKCR worked because most Donkey Kong titles always had a non-Japanese branch developing it (Especially the late Rare). Like @ BluePikmin11 said, the best choice to develop a possible Murasame Castle title would have it to be from a Japanese branch.

What I mean by Japanese cultural references is not by how the games are developed, but having the material that suits a Japanese setting. You know how titles like Ganbare Goemon and Yokai Watch had plenty of Japanese references in them? The same thing applies to Murasame Castle in which the game takes place in an Edo Era Japan and a portion of the enemies were essentially yokai. That is why I don't think a Western developer would be cut out for the job when they are mostly unfamiliar with such concepts.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Monster Games did Returns 3D.

Right, but it's also Retro's game by extension (since they made the game it was based off of). The only elements Monster specifically made was the extra world in that version of the game and anything in it, as well as the new items; everything else was Retro's work pasted into Monster's engine.

So it's still a Retro game, just that Retro themselves didn't develop it.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Right, but it's also Retro's game by extension (since they made the game it was based off of). The only elements Monster specifically made was the extra world in that version of the game and anything in it, as well as the new items; everything else was Retro's work pasted into Monster's engine.

So it's still a Retro game, just that Retro themselves didn't develop it.

now you're just being unfair. And tbh illogical

They did 2 dk games after doing a whole trilogy of metroid.

It's not like Retro owns Metroid and is specifically trying to piss off fans.

 

[BKupa666]

I mentioned Retro to begin with because there was a form of bandwagon on NeoGaf that formed after the announcement of Murasame Castle's localization that Retro would be the best choice to handle the franchise other than Platinum Games (In which Kamiya mentioned having interest in and actually played the original title). And this was before Sakurai had revealed him as an Assist Trophy a few days later to much of their surprise. I wouldn't really call it a large group per se, but people were mostly on board with it because of their fantastic work on Donkey Kong and Metroid.

Part of the problem with that idea in general is that they are a Western developer and normally work on projects that have a huge following in the West. Metroid Prime worked because it's s series that had more of a fandom in the West in comparison to other Nintendo IP's while DKCR worked because most Donkey Kong titles always had a non-Japanese branch developing it (Especially the late Rare). Like @ BluePikmin11 said, the best choice to develop a possible Murasame Castle title would have it to be from a Japanese branch.

What I mean by Japanese cultural references is not by how the games are developed, but having the material that suits a Japanese setting. You know how titles like Ganbare Goemon and Yokai Watch had plenty of Japanese references in them? The same thing applies to Murasame Castle in which the game takes place in an Edo Era Japan and a portion of the enemies were essentially yokai. That is why I don't think a Western developer would be cut out for the job when they are mostly unfamiliar with such concepts.

Oops, my error, thought you were talking about Retro possibly developing a Smash sequel, not a Murasame Castle one. In my opinion, they have a track record of taking Japanese characters like Samus and especially DK and improving them tenfold.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Right, but it's also Retro's game by extension (since they made the game it was based off of). The only elements Monster specifically made was the extra world in that version of the game and anything in it, as well as the new items; everything else was Retro's work pasted into Monster's engine.

So it's still a Retro game, just that Retro themselves didn't develop it.

now you're just being unfair. And tbh illogical

They did 2 dk games after doing a whole trilogy of metroid.

It's not like Retro owns Metroid and is specifically trying to piss off fans.

I have to agree with oni on this one. Retro doesn't owe Metroid or DK fans anything. I don't honestly believe Retro will do another Metroid game anytime soon, either. I do think one will be put into development but I don't believe Retro will develop it. (I don't believe Retro will do anything DK-related until DKCR3 either, plus Retro can likely develop two games now in their present state).


I think Retro will either revive another existing IP or go for creating a new IP.

I mentioned Retro to begin with because there was a form of bandwagon on NeoGaf that formed after the announcement of Murasame Castle's localization that Retro would be the best choice to handle the franchise other than Platinum Games (In which Kamiya mentioned having interest in and actually played the original title). And this was before Sakurai had revealed him as an Assist Trophy a few days later to much of their surprise. I wouldn't really call it a large group per se, but people were mostly on board with it because of their fantastic work on Donkey Kong and Metroid.

Part of the problem with that idea in general is that they are a Western developer and normally work on projects that have a huge following in the West. Metroid Prime worked because it's s series that had more of a fandom in the West in comparison to other Nintendo IP's while DKCR worked because most Donkey Kong titles always had a non-Japanese branch developing it (Especially the late Rare). Like @ BluePikmin11 said, the best choice to develop a possible Murasame Castle title would have it to be from a Japanese branch.

What I mean by Japanese cultural references is not by how the games are developed, but having the material that suits a Japanese setting. You know how titles like Ganbare Goemon and Yokai Watch had plenty of Japanese references in them? The same thing applies to Murasame Castle in which the game takes place in an Edo Era Japan and a portion of the enemies were essentially yokai. That is why I don't think a Western developer would be cut out for the job when they are mostly unfamiliar with such concepts.

I do agree with this logic. At the same time Retro didn't do a bad job with Metroid, though it was more popular in the west. On the other hand, DKC was popular worldwide and was developed by western developers.

Oops, my error, thought you were talking about Retro possibly developing a Smash sequel, not a Murasame Castle one. In my opinion, they have a track record of taking Japanese characters like Samus and especially DK and improving them tenfold.

Its kinda hard to justify that with DK. DK was a Japanese character, but the DKC franchise was created by western developers and has been a worldwide influence, being largely popular everywhere. But its still more of a western developed thing, and Retro fits that just fine.


Metroid I'll give you since prior to Metroid Prime it was always Japanese developed.

 

[BKupa666]

With DK, I'm referring mostly to how the heroic dope of a beach-bum most fans know/love is a product of Western developers like Rare and Retro. In Japanese-made games, he's a just a(n inaccurate) gorilla stereotype who would have never evolved past that had Rare not fleshed him out, and who would have been retconned back into that had Jungle Beat been successful. Even now, in Smash and MvDK, the "stupid ape" interpretation still exists, clashing with Retro's characterization.

Think I've mentioned it before, how stuff like the Jane Goodall Foundation, Tarzan and King Kong never made it big in the East, leaving behind the perception that gorillas are just violent and unintelligent creatures when that couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Think I've mentioned it before, how stuff like the Jane Goodall Foundation, Tarzan and King Kong never made it big in the East, leaving behind the perception that gorillas are just violent and unintelligent creatures when that couldn't be further from the truth.

King Kong is popular in Japan, but Godzilla, Ultraman and (to a lesser exent) Gamera all overshadow him in terms of popularity. Godzilla was even originally going to be made using stop-motion directly because of King Kong, but budgetary restraints axed that idea.

Heck, if King Kong Arrives In Edo is real, then Japan actually did make a King Kong movie before they made Godzilla.

 

[Diddy Kong]

King Kong is a favorite villain though. He acts in a more violent way over there to if I recall. So that doesn't help much with 's overall characterisation in Japan. already has a lot more character going around him in that regard. That's why he didn't mesh with what Nintendo EAD wanted to do with Jungle Beat. However, I think they did the 'bad Kong' thing well with the designs of the enemy Kongs... I liked that animalistic sence around that. Wish they could mesh that more with the franchise. Not jump around too much with going realistic, to cartoony, to more cartoony, to Bongo playing, to conquering Kingdoms in the name of The Banana
™, to realistically cartoony now. I hope they are willing to expand the series more, but be strict about what it should be as they do with the Zelda team. But allow veteran developers with the series as Retro and PAON and old Rare members to keep their influence on the series.

OR SOMETHING. I just want to get the same love as and .

 

[BKupa666]

King Kong is popular in Japan, but Godzilla, Ultraman and (to a lesser exent) Gamera all overshadow him in terms of popularity. Godzilla was even originally going to be made using stop-motion directly because of King Kong, but budgetary restraints axed that idea.

Heck, if King Kong Arrives In Edo is real, then Japan actually did make a King Kong movie before they made Godzilla.

Makes sense, but in that case, it's a case of the character being in terms of him being an abused, protective creature lashing out against his captors. Same kinda way Paon misinterpreted Cranky and made him a 'wise old man,' actually.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Did I miss the Murasame Castle chat?



Dang...

 

[pupNapoleon]

Not jump around too much with going realistic, to cartoony, to more cartoony, to Bongo playing, to conquering Kingdoms in the name of The Banana
™, to realistically cartoony now.

I hope they are willing to expand the series more, but be strict about what it should be as they do with the Zelda d .

...what? Zelda is the epitome of a franchise that creates a new style every game, particularly if the two ideas you throwing out there are "cartoon" and "realistic."

I think you may be trying to discuss characterization in some way... yet you are discussing terms for genre and medium more than the characters at hand, and that keeps me from understanding this extremely contradictory explanation above.

 

[Pazzo.]

While some characters do have some issues wth characterization, there are some fantasic examples of it done well.

....

Especially and .

 

[Troykv]

While some characters do have some issues wth characterization, there are some fantasic examples of it done well.

....

Especially and .

Well ... Lucina has more characterization "serious business" mode than others of its possible facets.

 

[Andinus]

It's not exclusive to Smash, but from what I can glean from online articles and interviews, in Japan, most gamers will go visit their family or friend's houses if they want to play a multiplayer game like Smash or Mario Kart (or the multiplayer modes of games like NSMB), rather than play them online. It's naturally more feasible to do, considering the size disparity between Japan and the U. S. But it's not an optimal mindset when it comes to developing a quality global online system.

I ask about Murasame Castle in particular because I see no demand for it outside of Takamaru fans on Smash sites. It's also an example of people wanting Retro to become a receptacle for old franchises instead of following their creative impulses (which is one reason why TF got so much hate...Returns was "supposed to be" a one-off throwback instead of a legit return of the series).

Umm, I say yes and no to this, I lived in Japan for 7 years, and while I don't know much of the gaming community, the success and amount of handhelds I would see people playing, or even the arcade set up in competion games, where the opponents would play on opposite sides rather than standing next to each other seems to yield to a more individualistic approach, not to mention who has the time to consistently go over to a friends house with all the clubs and extra curricular activities, and then insane work life everyone has.. So just saying.. I don't think japanese gaming culture has much to do with nintendos lack of online playability, just from my perspective though..

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So...........

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you're not going to start a topic, you shouldn't have made the post.
How about talking about one of the characters in your signature, like Urban Champion.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If you're not going to start a topic, you shouldn't have made the post.
How about talking about one of the characters in your signature, like Urban Champion.

Nah, let's have another riveting and ever-popular Jumpman debate!

 

[A Distant Demon]

Nah, let's have another riveting and ever-popular Jumpman debate!

The blue pikmin bashing is getting boring man. This is like the 10th time ive seen you talk about jumpman or young link. Kind of ridiculous.


As for urban champion i havent played his game but can he do anything interesting that mac cant?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Didn't Urban Champion originate from one of the worst NES games in history? But if they were to give him a better redesign and he were to get a Sakurai-esque reboot after his inclusion, then the game's infamous reputation would be forgotten.

 

[N3ON]

He can't do anything interesting in the first place.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You can squeeze out his street-gangster style fighting into his moveset, that surely would make him pretty interesting.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Have him play and fight like Balrog from the Street Fighter series.

 

[Xzsmmc]

While some characters do have some issues wth characterization, there are some fantasic examples of it done well.

....

Especially and .

Disagree with Luigi. He's a coward, not a manic depressive.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Urban Champion doesn't show any interesting abilities in his game, but I like the idea of making him a thug from the streets that fights dirty. Give him stuff like led pipes, chains, brass knuckles, sledgehammers, barbed wire bats, bricks, manhole covers, a special move where he throws a trash can. I just highly doubt they would go in that direction with a character.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I was thinking he could throw light, quick punches that could break through shields. He would have flower pots and manhole covers as projectiles, and could summon the cops to arrest his opponents for his Final Smash.

I want him because he was one of the retros considered for Melee, along with Bubbles, Balloon Fighter, and Excitebiker. I think he's the best choice out of the four to add, partly because he's from a fighting game, and he'd also get some cool moves and be fun to play.

 

[Troykv]

Disagree with Luigi. He's a coward, not a manic depressive.

Maybe a Coward with a little inferiority complex?

 

[ElPanandero]

The blue pikmin bashing is getting boring man. This is like the 10th time ive seen you talk about jumpman or young link. Kind of ridiculous.


As for urban champion i havent played his game but can he do anything interesting that mac cant?

I missed a young link talk? Sad, I would have had BluePikmin's back

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

This is the character discussion right?

Its a really slim chance the translation is incorrect because he definatly said mewtwo in that interview sooo.

All alboard the hype train.

 

[Geno Boost]

and Nintendo ACTUALLY owns him, unlike Geno..

but Geno is owned now by alphadream now not square enix wich means he is a 2nd party now

 

[A Distant Demon]

but Geno is owned now by alphadream now not square enix wich means he is a 2nd party now

stop. saying. that.
it s still speculation and you are spreading potentially, maybe even likely, false information. Saying you want to use it doesn't mean you own it. an email to a nobody which hasn't even been shown as proof isn't evidence. it's an intern doing his job. your evidence isn't as strong as you seem to think

and 2nd party apparently doesn't legally exist.

 

[Geno Boost]

stop. saying. that.
it s still speculation and you are spreading potentially, maybe even likely, false information. Saying you want to use it doesn't mean you own it. an email to a nobody which hasn't even been shown as proof isn't evidence. it's an intern doing his job. your evidence isn't as strong as you seem to think

and 2nd party apparently doesn't legally exist.

there is a proof someoene posted in Geno thread back in 2014 but i dont know wich page

 

[A Distant Demon]

there is a proof someoene posted in Geno thread back in 2014 but i dont know wich page

The only thing you keep saying is that alphadream wants to use Geno (but nothing about owning him) and an email which apparently says nintendo has them. Which is again silly because companies aren't going to make something not publicized known through a freaking email to a nobody. It's still much more likely that either the intern was told to pass the buck to nintendo or square just doesn't care anymore.

 

[Geno Boost]

The only thing you keep saying is that alphadream wants to use Geno (but nothing about owning him) and an email which apparently says nintendo has them. Which is again silly because companies aren't going to make something not publicized known through a freaking email to a nobody. It's still much more likely that either the intern was told to pass the buck to nintendo or square just doesn't care anymore.

alphadream said they have no problem on using him and they didnt even say the word "square" in the article Wich might mean Square enix doesnt own him anymore plus whats the point of square enix of owning a mario character and they dont have any plan on using him since 19 years
and the email is true not false unless if square enix doesnt care about thier fans at all

 

[A Distant Demon]

alphadream said they have no problem on using him and they didnt even say the word "square" in the article Wich might mean Square enix doesnt own him anymore plus whats the point of square enix of owning a mario character and they dont have any plan on using him since 19 years
and the email is true not false unless if square enix doesnt care about thier fans at all

reply emails are nearly always crap. If you are believing an email to some random guy who has nothing to do with press you are looking too far into things

im not even going to bother anymore. this is silly

 

[Deleted member]

but Geno is owned now by alphadream now not square enix wich means he is a 2nd party now

You really have no idea how IP works, do you?

Geno is not ****ing owned by AlphaDream, he is owned by Square-Enix.
Get it through your head.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Even if somehow Nintendo gets the rights to Geno back, I don't understand why anyone thinks an obscure one-off character from twenty years ago from a major established franchise has any chance of being playable. He wasn't even from a main Mario game. Fawful would be a much better character in general, really, and is a more recurring character in the Mario RPG games (specifically Mario & Luigi, where he appeared in all but one of them).

 

[N3ON]

I think if Nintendo had owned Geno around Brawl there's a good chance he would've been playable. The demand for him was insane back then, like, from what I remember, second only to Sonic. Now it's died down quite a lot and probably will never happen, even if Nintendo did own Geno, but 2006-2008 was a different story.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I never really 'got' the Geno support. I mean, he's pretty important to Mario RPG, but outside of it he's nonexistant. Yes, I played Mario & Luigi (one of my favorite GBA games) so I know about the cameo, but I still think nothing about the character really justifies his existance in Smash.

A lot of the supporters where bandwagonists to. Although there are some people still around who would want nobody in Smash above Geno...

 

[Geno Boost]

You really have no idea how IP works, do you?

Geno is not ****ing owned by AlphaDream, he is owned by Square-Enix.
Get it through your head.

No until I see square Enix say "we own the character" or if Nintendo say "we don't own the character" in this year

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I think if Nintendo had owned Geno around Brawl there's a good chance he would've been playable. The demand for him was insane back then, like, from what I remember, second only to Sonic. Now it's died down quite a lot and probably will never happen, even if Nintendo did own Geno, but 2006-2008 was a different story.

I would totally expect Geno to be in brawl if Nintendo owned him. Though, if they owned him, I would expect they would've also done a lot more of with him before that point.

I don't know, even with his popularity, with such a small role, I just don't think he is really that possible.



I certainly don't expect him now though. Especially with the fate of a newcomer Donkey Kong character still being unknown. There are also a decent handful of Mario characters that I could see before Geno.