Character Discussion Thread

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wii Fit sold more games than your mother sold hours in bed: I cannot imagine that's a strange reason for her.

 

[FalKoopa]

Wii Fit sold more games than your mother sold hours in bed: I cannot imagine that's a strange reason for her.

Does it kill you to be a bit more polite?

Speaking of retros, I do think Sakurai reserves 1 slot per game to be given to a character from the NES era. That said, amongst them, I think the reasons for including someone over the other is the same as that for non-retros.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Happy St. Patricks day, and the second Punch Out rep should be...

 

[Wintropy]

Muh culture.

'Dorf is ginger and wears pseudo-Celtic jewelery, playing 'Dorf today totally counts as a St Patrick's Day celebration, right?

 

[EmceeEspio]

Speaking of clovers and other associated random green crap, here's a fun question. If Dark Pit (sadly) gets cut from Ssb5 and that teased sequel to Uprising starring Viridi as the advertised antagonist comes out, could we very well see a third "real" Kid Icarus rep in the form of the Goddess of Nature? Or would the series still be undeserving?

 

[Kenith]

Speaking of clovers and other associated random green crap, here's a fun question. If Dark Pit (sadly) gets cut from Ssb5 and that teased sequel to Uprising starring Viridi as the advertised antagonist comes out, could we very well see a third "real" Kid Icarus rep in the form of the Goddess of Nature? Or would the series still be undeserving?

Nature loli waifu for Emo Pit seems like a fair trade.
When was this sequel teased? I'm guessing in the game itself?

Regardless, I'm not serious. Viridi is my ideal third Kid Icarus character behind Medusa.

 

[A Distant Demon]

.

Speaking of clovers and other associated random green crap, here's a fun question. If Dark Pit (sadly) gets cut from Ssb5 and that teased sequel to Uprising starring Viridi as the advertised antagonist comes out, could we very well see a third "real" Kid Icarus rep in the form of the Goddess of Nature? Or would the series still be undeserving?

Yes. Viridi is the best choice obviously.
Idk i think if ki gets another game it wouldnt be too crazy to see a new character. But she would hopefully be very low priority under bigger all stars.


In all seriousness i dont see uprising 2 happening anytime soon which is sad but oh well.

 

[Kenith]

Happy St. Patricks day, and the second Punch Out rep should be...

I wholehearted agree with this post.
Horseshoe boxing glove flail as a tether recovery, please.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Does it kill you to be a bit more polite?

Speaking of retros, I do think Sakurai reserves 1 slot per game to be given to a character from the NES era. That said, amongst them, I think the reasons for including someone over the other is the same as that for non-retros.

He's a fellow Kuthroat, we don't need no politeness between us. YARGH!!

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

What series deserve more reps?

StarFox, DK, and Golden Sun.

But really, just as long as third party franchise stay limited to one character, I'm happy.

 

[Kenith]

What series deserve more reps?

All of them or none of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Playing devil's advocate regarding "retro reps not existing," the existence of a token spot for both retro and shock/hardware newcomers is an understandable jump to take when, conveniently enough, exactly one newcomer per game since Melee can fit into both labels (ICs/GW, Pit/ROB, DHD/WFT).

Beyond that, most if not all of those choices seemingly came about as a result of Sakurai singling out a subset of characters from whom to choose a single candidate (with the ICs famously beating out Balloon Fighter/Urban Champ/Excitebiker). I don't buy for a second, for example, that WFT, a non-character for all intents and purposes, was brainstormed up in the same session as Mega Man and Little Mac, rather than from a list of "surprising" options.

"Reps" are awful, I agree, but this is one area where the principle may actually apply.

Too many reasons for me to list right this moment why I can't buy this at all.

 

[Wintropy]

No series "deserves" anything. "Deserves" is a moral term that doesn't apply to quantification of reps, which don't exist themselves.

Which series do I think would be nice if more characters from that series were playable?

Any series that has interesting characters.

Dixie Kong and K. Rool are interesting; Ridley is interesting. Donkey Kong and Metroid have relatively few playable characters compared to other series.

In the same vein, Tiki and Anna are interesting; Viridi is interesting. Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus are frequently cited as having "too many reps" compared to other series.

I'm not concerned with how big a series is or how many reps it "deserves". I support characters for characters, not because so-and-so "deserves" to get in over anybody else. It's why I support the likes of Professor Layton and Metal Face, who have no real chance of getting into Smash at this point in time.

Similarly, I support characters from newer IPs like Wonder Red (The Wonderful 101) and Inkling (Splatoon). Not because they're "new and relevant", but because I like the characters and think they have a lot to offer.

That being said!

There are characters that I believe ought to be higher priority than others. While I may support Tiki and K. Rool equally, I think K. Rool should the priority character, as he has a very large fanbase that has been waiting a very long time, and he is at least as interesting a character as Tiki. I won't pretend that recent appearances and importance to their native series also plays a huge part - so while Tiki may beat out K. Rool on the former, K. Rool trumps Tiki in the latter.

And yet roster-picking isn't a paint-by-numbers process. There are subtle nuances and intricacies involved as well - it's equally about personal preference as well as anything else. That's why I think Sakurai has an incredibly difficult job: he's shouldering the burden of literally millions of fans, and he has to temper what he likes with what the public expects. I won't deny he's made some questionable choices in the past (why was Mewtwo scrapped?), and continues to do so to this day (why was Wolf scrapped*?), but I think that, overall, the quality of the roster is decent. There are plenty of characters that could still fit in nicely and would make a lot of people very happy, but I understand why they were not included, and I don't think it's as simple as "X series deserves Y number of reps because Z reasons".

Lest this become a diatribe in defence of Sakurai, of course, I'll just summarise by saying that I don't think the likes of Donkey Kong or Metroid deserve more characters because of arbitrary number games: I think that they've got a lot of cool and interesting characters, and for what they've got, they're the best characters for the job.

* I am aware that there are legitimate reasons for their cut, I'm just using these to demonstrate my point.

 

[Arcadenik]

Playing devil's advocate regarding "retro reps not existing," the existence of a token spot for both retro and shock/hardware newcomers is an understandable jump to take when, conveniently enough, exactly one newcomer per game since Melee can fit into both labels (ICs/GW, Pit/ROB, DHD/WFT).

Beyond that, most if not all of those choices seemingly came about as a result of Sakurai singling out a subset of characters from whom to choose a single candidate (with the ICs famously beating out Balloon Fighter/Urban Champ/Excitebiker). I don't buy for a second, for example, that WFT, a non-character for all intents and purposes, was brainstormed up in the same session as Mega Man and Little Mac, rather than from a list of "surprising" options.

"Reps" are awful, I agree, but this is one area where the principle may actually apply.

If is a non-character then is one, too. And no, she wasn't chosen from a list of surprising options. Sakurai brainstormed her up, too.

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...-bros-chose-order-of-character-announcements/

Spoiler

Super Smash Bros. director Masahiro Sakurai recently spoke about the inclusion of the Wii Fit Trainer in the new Wii U and 3DS entries.

Sakurai’s words come from the latest issue of Japanese issue Nintendo Dream. You’ll find our translation of the excerpt below.

ND: Not only guest characters were shocking, but Wii Fit Trainer as well. It was a character no one saw coming, right?

MS: Yes, that’s right. Zero, none… (laughs)

(everyone laughs)

MS: For Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it was discussed that non-combatant-like characters wouldn’t be added, but this time an important aspect of the concept was “if that character is included, could interesting things be done and could that fighter express individual traits?” When making this game, it was necessary to think very seriously “how to create new fun things”. I was able to think in my head the way how Wii Fit Trainer and Villager would operate so therefore they were included. Games must be completed properly, and in order to have fun gameplay for you and your opponent, each character has to have individuality. The present Smash Bros. was done by giving importance to that.

ND: By the way, did you realize Trainer as something to put into a Smash game at the time of the release of Wii Fit?

MS: No, that’s not the case. I don’t think about new characters etc. if I don’t have to for making a new Smash Bros. game.

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...er-in-new-smash-bros-just-to-surprise-people/

Spoiler

Most Smash Bros. fans likely didn’t expect Nintendo to announce Wii Fit Trainer as a playable character in the new Wii U and 3DS games. Yet, during E3 2013, Nintendo did just that. The company also revealed the Animal Crossing Villager, a character that you wouldn’t exactly peg as a fighter under normal circumstances.

Masahiro Sakurai told GamesTM this month that the their inclusion isn’t simply a means of surprising players. Rather, he feels that they “are very unique characters and they lend themselves well to the Smash Bros. family because they bring things we don’t already see.”

Sakurai said:

“The Wii Fit Trainer and the villager from Animal Crossing, there may be some people out there being like, ‘Okay, great, now you’re going out on a limb, you’re trying to do something strange or unusual, but there’s really no meaning behind it, you’re just doing it for…’ I don’t want to say shock value, per se, but just to surprise people. And that’s really not the case. I think these are very unique characters and they lend themselves well to the Smash Bros. family because they bring things we don’t already see.”

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...dlc-patching-why-villagertrainer-are-in-more/

Spoiler

Sakurai on why the Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are being included…

The first thing I want to say about these characters, it is that it is very fun player with them, and I understand why everyone thinks that Mega Man is suitable perfectly to the series.

But when we think about the characters to include in Smash Bros., we ask ourselves the following question: “What that this character can do, but that existing characters cannot be?”. And so, I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about what the villagers of Animal Crossing and the WiiFit coach could do. I then realized that there were many possible interesting things with these two characters.

http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...wl-talks-about-choosing-smash-bros-character/

Spoiler

Super Smash Bros. director Masahiro Sakurai revealed an interesting nugget about the Animal Crossing Villager in his Famitsu column posted this week.

According to Sakurai, the character was previously considered for Brawl. However, he was removed “in the planning stages because he wasn’t suited for battle.”

“A lot of people understood Mega Man, but they kept asking me ‘Why did you go for the villager and the Wii Fit trainer?’, Neither of them are fighting characters, certainly. In fact, we had previously removed the villager from Super Smash Bros. Brawl in the planning stages because he wasn’t suited for battle.”

Sakurai went on to discuss the importance of including characters on the roster who are unique and can “stick out from the pack”:

“Something I think that people noticed in the movies and screenshots released, is that the villager and trainer were not choices we made for the sake of cheap novelty. Each has their own unique attacks and battle strategies, and they make the game more interesting. If I have an image of a character in my mind that dances around and jibes with what I want, then that’s the most important thing. On the other hand, even if you have a character suited for a fighting game, if you can’t make him stick out from the pack and extract something unique from him, then what can you do?”

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Happy St. Patricks day, and the second Punch Out rep should be...

O' Chunks ought to to be his drinking buddy and frenemy despite the fact that he's a Scotsman.

 

[BKupa666]

Dog is ten times the character WFT ever was. He had clear personality and left an impact on players, even if he didn't have an official name (other than Mr. Peepers, if that was legit), whereas WFT was a literal mannequin.

Not really interested in a lengthy back-and-forth on the matter, but I call BS on Sakurai's "she wasn't added to be shocking" rationales.

For those of you who are as big of reality TV fans as I am, it's like casting for the various shows...all contestants have to clear the same hurdles to become contestants, but casting teams do scout out people who fit certain labels/demographics (i.e. nerd, mother, whack-job, angry *insert ethnicity here* person). And each candidate is only really competing to get a spot among other members of their label/demographic, not the entire pool at large.

Just like how those teams would never admit to casting based on such labels, and would defend contestants on an individual basis, of course Sakurai wouldn't either where "shock" characters are concerned. But that doesn't mean her "shock" nature never came into play in her selection.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

No series "deserves" anything. "Deserves" is a moral term that doesn't apply to quantification of reps, which don't exist themselves.

Which series do I think would be nice if more characters from that series were playable?

Any series that has interesting characters.

Dixie Kong and K. Rool are interesting; Ridley is interesting. Donkey Kong and Metroid have relatively few playable characters compared to other series.

In the same vein, Tiki and Anna are interesting; Viridi is interesting. Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus are frequently cited as having "too many reps" compared to other series.

I'm not concerned with how big a series is or how many reps it "deserves". I support characters for characters, not because so-and-so "deserves" to get in over anybody else. It's why I support the likes of Professor Layton and Metal Face, who have no real chance of getting into Smash at this point in time.

Similarly, I support characters from newer IPs like Wonder Red (The Wonderful 101) and Inkling (Splatoon). Not because they're "new and relevant", but because I like the characters and think they have a lot to offer.

That being said!

There are characters that I believe ought to be higher priority than others. While I may support Tiki and K. Rool equally, I think K. Rool should the priority character, as he has a very large fanbase that has been waiting a very long time, and he is at least as interesting a character as Tiki. I won't pretend that recent appearances and importance to their native series also plays a huge part - so while Tiki may beat out K. Rool on the former, K. Rool trumps Tiki in the latter.

And yet roster-picking isn't a paint-by-numbers process. There are subtle nuances and intricacies involved as well - it's equally about personal preference as well as anything else. That's why I think Sakurai has an incredibly difficult job: he's shouldering the burden of literally millions of fans, and he has to temper what he likes with what the public expects. I won't deny he's made some questionable choices in the past (why was Mewtwo scrapped?), and continues to do so to this day (why was Wolf scrapped*?), but I think that, overall, the quality of the roster is decent. There are plenty of characters that could still fit in nicely and would make a lot of people very happy, but I understand why they were not included, and I don't think it's as simple as "X series deserves Y number of reps because Z reasons".

Lest this become a diatribe in defence of Sakurai, of course, I'll just summarise by saying that I don't think the likes of Donkey Kong or Metroid deserve more characters because of arbitrary number games: I think that they've got a lot of cool and interesting characters, and for what they've got, they're the best characters for the job.

* I am aware that there are legitimate reasons for their cut, I'm just using these to demonstrate my point.

Pretty much this.

I care more for what a character has to offer than just representing a franchise. It's annoying seeing comments about how "THIS SERIES IS OVERREPRESENTED N STUFF" and how "THIS CHARACTER DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE IN SMASH" IMO. I can understand people being disappointed with characters that wind up being clones though.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I really feel weird about shick characters. sure they make things more tgings, especially for casuals, but of course someone isnt getting in instead. WFT was interesting when announced but i really feel like someone else coild have been more interesting in her place :/

duck hunt is awesome though

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't know about anybody else here, but I uh...PLAY Smash Bros. The game. I like playing as characters. Can I say I dreaded playing as Robin because I thought he wasn't "deserving" before he was revealed? I thought Duck Hunt was a bad idea because he was a "stupid character" before he got leaked. Now that I've played as them, I LOVE their inclusion.

Debate over stuff like sales all you want. What should make you WANT the character in Smash is (aside from your personal preference) what they can do. What makes them a good choice? This IS a game after all. You play the game. You don't observe sales in this game. You don't count the number of games they've been in. You play it.

This is why Inklings are my favorite choice for DLC (aside from mah boi ). They offer something that, when translated to Smash, looks like it could be one of the coolest movesets ever. You don't even need to see much gameplay to see that. But no, let's talk about sales and stuff that, at the end of the day, doesn't affect how we play the game.

"This series deserves a new rep!" Yeah? BOOOOOORING. What can that character do? Are they different? Can they add something new? Yes? Awesome! Can't wait to play as them. No? Why add them?

Arguing sales, semantics, or whatever you want to make your character look good doesn't even compare to having an absolutely hype inducing moveset. Your character choice could sells billions, have a butt ton of fans, etc...but if their moveset sucks, or they are badly designed, then they won't be fun in game. You know, what we're talking about.

I just don't get it. I want Inklings because I think they have a cool design, great potential, etc...while not giving a rat's behind about the potential sales of the game. That's just silly. But whatever. Continue talking about unimaginative things that don't truly get people hyped.

Spoiler: If you're trying to convince people your character is cool, and that somebody else should want to play as them, flashing sales numbers won't do it. Tell them moveset possibilities. Never played Wonderful 101? Let me tell you what Wonder Red can do! He'd be great!

"NOPE. HIS GAME DIDN'T SELL WELL! COOL IDEAS BUT HE'LL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALES!"

Oy...../rant.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And here I want characters because I just like them....

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

And here I want characters because I just like them....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to support characters only because of gameplay. What i'm saying is that sales and number of games are the most boring arguments, yet they are the ones that mostly come up in debate.

It makes me a sad panda.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I want Rayman for the sole reason that he's Rayman and would be insanely fun to play in Smash.

There is no character in Smash that even comes close to what he can do.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to support characters only because of gameplay. What i'm saying is that sales and number of games are the most boring arguments, yet they are the ones that mostly come up in debate.

It makes me a sad panda.

I hear ya.

It's odd because while we did get sales behemoths we also got characters in the "meh" category and especially .

Smash clearly values both obscure ad popular. Using sales as the crutch seems a tad hypocritical.

 

[BKupa666]

I can understand why, if two characters are equally "fun" on paper, sales are looked at as the go-to factor as far as, again on paper, pleasing more fans vs. fewer fans.

Support on the basis of sales, however, is just silly. . .why should other fans dictate what you, personally, like? It's like when people only support "muhrelevant" characters, allowing companies to dictate their preferences. Why not just simply support quality characters?

 

[APC99]

A bit on-topic, but I've been thinking about Codename S.T.E.A.M. for quite a while.

I'd love to see one of those characters appear as playable either as DLC or in the next Smash installment. The idea of a character who relies more on a power source to use specials, like some kind of mixture of Olimar and Robin, would be an interesting design to see play out.

Anybody else agree / have any ideas on how this could be incorporated?

 

[Deleted member]

As long as said character is Lincoln (because he's mother****in' Lincoln), I'm game.

 

[Wintropy]

Indeed and well said, but of course there has to be a limit on what characters are viable. They obviously have to be Nintendo character - or at least originate from a video game, preferably one that has some sort of connection to Nintendo or Smash - and it's expected that they're at least reasonably important in their own game. Tap-Tap and Octorok (hype and all as that would be) are just not viable candidates compared to Yoshi and Link.

As much as I would love to see Shy Guy or Meowstic in Smash, both are wild fancies at best, and I accept that. Hell, even Tiki is a bit of a stretch, though one I will defend 'til I draw my last breath. It's fun to speculate irrespective of that sort of thing. :3

A bit on-topic, but I've been thinking about Codename S.T.E.A.M. for quite a while.
I'd love to see one of those characters appear as playable either as DLC or in the next Smash installment. The idea of a character who relies more on a power source to use specials, like some kind of mixture of Olimar and Robin, would be an interesting design to see play out.
Anybody else agree / have any ideas on how this could be incorporated?

As the owner of the Henry Fleming support thread, I like this. :3

You should totally check it out, by the way. It's pretty cool. That Wintropy person is so smart and attractive, I just want to rub those ears and thank our kitty-tail maid for a job well done~ <3

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Indeed and well said, but of course there has to be a limit on what characters are viable. They obviously have to be Nintendo character - or at least originate from a video game, preferably one that has some sort of connection to Nintendo or Smash - and it's expected that they're at least reasonably important in their own game. Tap-Tap and Octorok (hype and all as that would be) are just not viable candidates compared to Yoshi and Link.

As much as I would love to see Shy Guy or Meowstic in Smash, both are wild fancies at best, and I accept that. Hell, even Tiki is a bit of a stretch, though one I will defend 'til I draw my last breath. It's fun to speculate irrespective of that sort of thing. :3

Well yeah, they're always certain requirements. Like, this one off hand Fire Emblem character might be cool, but it should probably have an array of qualities that still qualify them as a good pick. Kinda like, for example, adding Wonder Blue without Wonder Red. Probably wouldn't happen. But within reason, characters with awesome moveset possibilities are the way to go. Just probably won't happen if they aren't a main protagonist (of a series not already represented), or an important character in a series delving into characters aside from the main character.

Hope that made sense. Distracted from playing Fire Emblem lol.

 

[Wintropy]

Well yeah, they're always certain requirements. Like, this one off hand Fire Emblem character might be cool, but it should probably have an array of qualities that still qualify them as a good pick. Kinda like, for example, adding Wonder Blue without Wonder Red. Probably wouldn't happen. But within reason, characters with awesome moveset possibilities are the way to go. Just probably won't happen if they aren't a main protagonist (of a series not already represented), or an important character in a series delving into characters aside from the main character.

Hope that made sense. Distracted from playing Fire Emblem lol.

Nah that makes perfect sense. They wouldn't add Wonder Blue without Wonder Red, or Felix without Isaac. :3

It does help less important characters if their series already has a character in the roster, of course. As much as I don't believe in reps, there is an element of pedigree in terms of roster-making; getting your foot in the door is the toughest part for any new character.

Spoiler

Which is why I think Rayman may yet surprise us.

And before anybody cites the other third-party trophies in Smash 4, they're not nearly as iconic or as critically and commercially acclaimed as Rayman - if sales and relevance had any say in the process, Rayman would be top of the crop for a third-party character. Even in spite of that, he's a very memorable and beloved character, and getting into Smash at all is a huge deal. After Snake, of course~

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sales keep getting brought up in debates because they play a role in whole gets choosen. Sales are the main reason Duck Hunt was made playable and why they decided to include the character from "the very beginning of the project", however if the Duck Hunt character had no potential for a good moveset they probably wouldn't have gone through with adding him. The idea of a trio is what made the concept of the character work for Sakurai. So if a franchise has great sales and a character that would have a workable and interesting moveset, that character probably would have a better chance than one from a franchise with not so great sales.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I don't think it really is that simple as "because it's cool" or "they have a unique moveset"

Smash is still a game and it still needs to sell. Some characters might get more publicity for uniqueness or strangeness. Other will because they add an extremely iconic character like the third parties. Yes uniqueness and popularity need to be a part of it, in part because popularity sells, but there is more than one side to every argument.

Naturally, sales do play a factor as games with higher sales are, well, more well known and thus are more likely to appeal to more people.



Of course supporting is entirely one sided. That's the point. Just plain liking the characters. like Viridi, ridley blunder red, dixie kong, rayman etc




also let's be honest Lincoln is the absolute best STEAM rep. Henry just has a better chance.

 

[Wintropy]

also let's be honest Randolph Carter is the absolute best STEAM rep. Henry just has a better chance.

Yes, I agree. :3

A Lincoln alt for Henry would be maximum hype.

"Fourscore and seven years ago, I kicked your liberty-loathing ass!"

Ohh, chills~ <3

 

[Baskerville]

And here I want characters because I just like them....

Believe me Swamp you're not the only one.
After playing The Wonderful 101, Wonder Red would've been ****ing amazing!

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Lincoln: EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY... I'M A SUPER SMASH BRO.!

 

[Kenith]

Lincoln: EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY... I'M A SUPER SMASH BRO.!

You know, not gonna lie...that picture is a pretty convincing argument for Lincoln imo.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Im going to be honest. I was going to make a lincoln thread. Wintropy just made the fleming thread the day before and I dropped it. it's why my first post in the thread is lincoln related

 

[Wintropy]

Im going to be honest. I was going to make a lincoln thread. Wintropy just made the fleming thread the day before and I dropped it. it's why my first post in the thread is lincoln related

I worked damn hard on that thread, lemme tell ya!

And who doesn't love a bit of liberty in their lives? :3

 

[A Distant Demon]

I worked damn hard on that thread, lemme tell ya!

And who doesn't love a bit of liberty in their lives? :3

communists.


. . .STEAM needs a sequel where we fight communist mole men
Strike Team Eliminating All Moles

 

[BluePikmin11]

You can want as much characters as you want, as long as you remember "want them in the game =/= expect them in the game."
Keep your expectations on check.

 

[Wintropy]

You can want as much characters as you want, as long as you remember "want them in the game =/= expect them in the game."
Keep your expectations on check.

Says the man who wants Jumpman and Sablé~ ;P

I jest. That's a proviso I always bear in mind during speculation. I was over the moon with Palutena, that's good enough for me.