Character Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

I don't think gameplay is the only thing that matters.
For all retros, I think significance, potential of franchise, and iconicness are also factors that contribute to their additions.

 

[JamesDNaux]

There are two kinds of characters. Nintendo characters and third party characters.

Every character goes through their own "criteria" for entry, you can't just bunch them together as a whole. Ridley didn't get in because Sakurai felt it wouldn't be "true to his character" Ice Climbers didn't get in because of technical limitations, Bowser Jr. almost didn't get in because of time constraints, these things can apply to any character, but never to every character.

Third parties are literally the only exception to any rules that Nintendo characters are bound by.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think gameplay is the only thing that matters.
For all retros, I think significance, potential of franchise, and iconicness are also factors that contribute to their additions.

Those factors certainly didn't attribute to the Ice Climbers.

Nah, they were pretty much chosen mainly for their duo gimmick gameplay.

 

[AEMehr]

Ice Climbers got in solely for gameplay and for being an NES only franchise. I don't think it's really the significance of the game and how much of a future they thought it would have past Melee that got them in. Even though a multiplayer eShop game would be cool.

GOLDEN2STRONKWITHTHESENINJAS

 

[BluePikmin11]

Weren't they also chosen because Sakurai also wanted a NES representative?
Of course, the reasons I mentioned aren't the only reasons retros could potentially be chosen. I think the reasons can vary depending on the situation.

 

[AEMehr]

Well yes, I said that they were added, "for being a NES only franchise" on top of the unique playstyle that came with the Popo and Nana fighting together.
Since characters in for 3DS & Wii U were selected with unique gameplay options in mind, it's fair to have the mindset that only the ones with the most to offer are under serious consideration. Notability will get your name higher up on the list (so-to speak), which is why I hold more stock on Excitebike Racer than I would for Muddy Mole.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Maybe not the most to offer, as long as what they offer is distinct from characters currently in the game.

 

[AEMehr]

Maybe not the most to offer, as long as what they offer is distinct from characters currently in the game.

More or less what I meant, yeah.

 

[Deleted member]

Weren't they also chosen because Sakurai also wanted a NES representative?

The pre-Super Mario Bros. era, to be precise.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Curses, foiled again by jokes taken seriously.

But no, I've never touched Punch-Out.

Such as Rayman. Ironic.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Those things N3ON are making are glorious

Just saying. but if Ice climbers weren't a melee veteran, they would never be in smash. They were picked on a strange whim just like Pit. Pit just got lucky.

Of course I want them back, but without smash they would probably be the "retro" character with the least support.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The pre-Super Mario Bros. era, to be precise.

Was that really said?
Could I have a source.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Those things N3ON are making are glorious

Just saying. but if Ice climbers weren't a melee veteran, they would never be in smash. They were picked on a strange whim just like Pit. Pit just got lucky.

Of course I want them back, but without smash they would probably be the "retro" character with the least support.

I disagree on Pit. Pit was actually pretty popular, he did have two games, and Kid Icarus was fairly well liked. I think most people had no idea what Ice Climber was, though.


Ice Climbers got lucky. Pit, not so much, because he was fairly well liked back in the day.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I disagree on Pit. Pit was actually pretty popular, he did have two games, and Kid Icarus was fairly well liked. I think most people had no idea what Ice Climber was, though.


Ice Climbers got lucky. Pit, not so much, because he was fairly well liked back in the day.

Guess I could have worded the lucky part better. the luck part was about getting a game.

didn't know Pit was popular though. neat das my boy
although of myths and monsters wasn't technically released in japan yet but that is beside the point

 

[JaidynReiman]

Guess I could have worded the lucky part better. the luck part was about getting a game.

didn't know Pit was popular though. neat das my boy
although of myths and monsters wasn't technically released in japan yet but that is beside the point

I was pretty sure he was quite popular. He wasn't like... EXTREMELY popular like a recent character would be, but if I recall he was kinda like Takamaru's requests for this game.

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification on your remark being about him getting a game, though. Yes, that was definitely luck. As I've heard, Sakurai was just developing a game so his team could get used to how the 3DS works. Originally the gameplay style they came up with was planned for Star Fox, then they decided it wasn't that great for Star Fox and ended up making a Kid Icarus game.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't think gameplay is the only thing that matters.
For all retros, I think significance, potential of franchise, and iconicness are also factors that contribute to their additions.

Significance
(Nintendo's first handheld electronic games)(saved the video game industry in the U.S.)(NES Zapper and his game sold millions)

Potential of franchise
(since it got a new game after Brawl)

Iconicness
(many NES fans used to ask for a new Kid Icarus game for over 20+ years and many NES fans remembered him from the Captain N cartoon)(memorable but short-lived NES peripheral)(bundled with Super Mario Bros. and the dog is infamous )

Mr. Game & Watch isn't exactly iconic... he didn't really exist before Melee.

Uniqueness potential
(Popo and Nana fighting together as a team)(being 2D and doing random stuff)(ability to split a bow into two blades and reattach them to form a bow)(a robot doing robot stuff)(dog and duck team and breaking the fourth wall to fight via NES Zapper)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Did Pit really know how to use dual blades back in the original games?
I played the original Kid Icarus for a while, and I can only recall him just being able to just shoot arrows along with power ups he collects with hearts.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Did Pit really know how to use dual blades back in the original games?
I played the original Kid Icarus for a while, and I can only recall him just being able to just shoot arrows along with power ups he collects with hearts.

No.

That was very much a creative idea by Sakurai when he redesigned Pit for Brawl. It's a pretty awesome concept IMO; it's not something you see often in bow users.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Did Pit really know how to use dual blades back in the original games?
I played the original Kid Icarus for a while, and I can only recall him just being able to just shoot arrows along with power ups he collects with hearts.

No i'm pretty sure those were added to smash. Good thing to. made him much cooler

ps if n3on reads this I would love an icon for Viridi if boredom strikes you

 

[Arcadenik]

Did Pit really know how to use dual blades back in the original games?
I played the original Kid Icarus for a while, and I can only recall him just being able to just shoot arrows along with power ups he collects with hearts.

Sakurai made it up.

He is a fan of Star Wars.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

I just realized that Pit's redesign was introduced in 2006 via the first Brawl trailer, meaning that it has been almost 10 years since Pit got a huge makeover.

Let that sink in.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Technically, he had a makeover since 2005, since the roster was decided at that time during development.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Sakurai made it up.

He is a fan of Star Wars.

Eeeeeyup, this is also the same reason why Beam Swords were even an item in the franchise.

And I take it that the Lunar Sanctum from Uprising was completely inspired by the Death Star.

 

[random rendum]

Which franchises do you think are overrepresented ? Give specific FACTS not biased opinions. You can disagree.


I personally think Kid Icarus. It gets 3 characters for 4 games while more popular franchises like metroid and Dk get 2. It gets the a lot of enemies in smash run.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I was thinking about Ganon lately and wondering how big he would be if playable. Ganondorf is already the tallest character in the game and making Ganon significantly bigger than Ganondorf might be "too big" for the game and making him only slightly bigger would have him be too small in comparison. It'd be like making Giga Bowser playable and him being only slightly bigger than Bowser. Like this.

Spoiler

If Ganon was playable I think he should be about this big

however this would probably be considered "too big" for the game. How big do you think Ganon would be if made playable?

 

[Deleted member]

The pre-Super Mario Bros. era, to be precise.

That actually was never specified.

All we have record for is that Sakurai wanted a character of NES/Famicom origin.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I was thinking about Ganon lately and wondering how big he would be if playable. Ganondorf is already the tallest character in the game and making Ganon significantly bigger than Ganondorf might be "too big" for the game and making him only slightly bigger would have him be too small in comparison. It'd be like making Giga Bowser playable and him being only slightly bigger than Bowser. Like this.

Spoiler

If Ganon was playable I think he should be about this big

however this would probably be considered "too big" for the game. How big do you think Ganon would be if made playable?

I'll only accept Ganon if he says the following for a win quote: "Join me Link, and I'll make your face the greatest in Koridai! Or else you will die!". Plus, he should shoot lightning out of his fingertips for a a Forward Smash.

 

[random rendum]

What series deserve more reps?

 

[Autumn ♫]

What series deserve more reps?

Zelda and DK. Period. I wouldn't mind another Fire Emblem character though.

 

[random rendum]

Zelda and DK. Period. I wouldn't mind another Fire Emblem character though.

Like my other post elaborate.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Like my other post elaborate.

Umm, as big of franchises they are and how unique the characters are, I think they deserve more characters.
Am I doing this right?

 

[random rendum]

Umm, as big of franchises they are and how unique the characters are, I think they deserve more characters.
Am I doing this right?

Well like what makes them big not opinions but how deserving mario,kirby,zelda,pokemon,dk,fe,starfox.etc deserve more because they're popular and have many games like that

 

[EmceeEspio]

I think these are our options:

•DK character (Dixie or K Rool)
•Zelda character (Only chance is on Impa but I want Tetra/Vaati)
•Inkling
•Cut veterans (Lucas, Wolf, and least likely, Snake)
•Maybe something more left field. Not likely.

 

[Kalimdori]

What series deserve more reps?

DK, Metroid, and Golden Sun imo

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you guys think Mewtwo will have his moveset changed?

Also can one of you please post this on 4chan?

tinyurl.com/SmashPoll

And give me a link when you do?

I beg you.

 

[pupNapoleon]

examples. give them to me.

I can't see arguing over whether or not a character in the game isn't in the game for the sake of muh repping.

Anything about Roy.

 

[BKupa666]

Playing devil's advocate regarding "retro reps not existing," the existence of a token spot for both retro and shock/hardware newcomers is an understandable jump to take when, conveniently enough, exactly one newcomer per game since Melee can fit into both labels (ICs/GW, Pit/ROB, DHD/WFT).

Beyond that, most if not all of those choices seemingly came about as a result of Sakurai singling out a subset of characters from whom to choose a single candidate (with the ICs famously beating out Balloon Fighter/Urban Champ/Excitebiker). I don't buy for a second, for example, that WFT, a non-character for all intents and purposes, was brainstormed up in the same session as Mega Man and Little Mac, rather than from a list of "surprising" options.

"Reps" are awful, I agree, but this is one area where the principle may actually apply.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Playing devil's advocate regarding "retro reps not existing," the existence of a token spot for both retro and shock/hardware newcomers is an understandable jump to take when, conveniently enough, exactly one newcomer per game since Melee can fit into both labels (ICs/GW, Pit/ROB, DHD/WFT).

Beyond that, most if not all of those choices seemingly came about as a result of Sakurai singling out a subset of characters from whom to choose a single candidate (with the ICs famously beating out Balloon Fighter/Urban Champ/Excitebiker). I don't buy for a second, for example, that WFT, a non-character for all intents and purposes, was brainstormed up in the same session as Mega Man and Little Mac, rather than from a list of "surprising" options.

"Reps" are awful, I agree, but this is one area where the principle may actually apply.

Wii Fit sold more games than your mother sold hours in bed: I cannot imagine that's a strange reason for her.

 

[N3ON]

Oh snap.

 

[APC99]

Wii Fit sold more games than your mother sold hours in bed: I cannot imagine that's a strange reason for her.