Character Discussion Thread

[Dinoman96]

Here's a controversial opinion of mine:

Spoiler

I think people holding out for characters such as Wonder Red, Isaac, Ray 01, Starfy, Saki and various other second party developed franchises aren't going to be too happy in the end. As harsh as it may sound, I don't think there's really been a second party series worth representing in Smash since Fire Emblem's introduction in Melee.

Here's what Sakurai once said on the ol' Brawl dojo:

When they’re all lined up like this, it becomes obvious that there is roughly 6-year blank before and after Pikmin. While there have been big series since then like "Animal Crossing," "Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day," and "Wii Sports" it does seem that coming up with a completely new character-driven series has gotten more difficult recently.

I think the above makes his intentions rather loud and clear: He's not going to include any old series of the street as if it were Playstation All Stars (comparison might be extreme but...). The franchise in question has to either A. EARN IT or B. at least represent something important in Nintendo's history, like how Ice Climbers were chosen to represent quirky NES action games that Nintendo's home console business had its roots in. Looking back at Melee and Brawl, not counting any retro/third party characters, the former only had one new series introduced (Fire Emblem), the latter only having two (Pikmin and WarioWare). These are all fairly major/noteworthy series with multiple installments, crossovers, and even anime/cartoons.

Looking at Smash 4's lineup, we did see an increase of new IPs, but Punch-Out!!, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit and such are once again notable and important franchises for Nintendo. Very rarely has there been an inclusion of a second party franchise in Smash, but when there is one, it's well earned. Kirby and Pokemon, for example, aren't directly made by any of Nintendo's inhouse developers, instead developed by HAL Laboratory and Gamefreak respectively, but they manage to be amongst the most popular and successful franchises owned by Nintendo. Of course, Kirby having connections to Sakurai/HAL Labs didn't hurt either...

I just don't think the same could be said for franchises/one-off games like Wonderful 101, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo!, Captain Rainbow, Dillon's Rolling Western and so on. They're just small time. They're partially the reason Sakurai even came up with assist trophies in the first place. So really, from this point on, I think we really ought to be looking at series developed by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo SPD, etc for characters to include in Smash. I definitely think Splatoon, for example, has a good shot to be represented in the next Smash. It's basically the first major character based IP to come out of Nintendo EAD since Pikmin back in 2001, and I'm sure the Inklings could provide a unique and interesting playstyle.

 

[Coricus]

Spoiler

I honestly feel like it's more controversial that I don't want Hades. I just don't like him.
Chapter 23 crossed a mental line that I glitched and created a while beforehand. No offense to people who like him, though.

Anyway. I feel a little reluctant to predict characters for the next game in general right now. Not so much so that I won't do it in the slightest, but enough that I leave a few empty spaces in my roster and try to expect little and hope for a lot. I just feel like the flavor of the month characters everyone guesses the first few years before a game are nearly always ridiculous and almost never actually get in.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Here's a controversial opinion of mine:

Spoiler

I think people holding out for characters such as Wonder Red, Isaac, Ray 01, Starfy, Saki and various other second party developed franchises on aren't going to be too happy in the end. As harsh as it may sound, I don't think there's really been a second party series worth representing in Smash since Fire Emblem's introduction in Melee.

Here's what Sakurai once said on the ol' Brawl dojo:



I think the above makes his intentions rather loud and clear: He's not going to include any old series of the street as if it were Playstation All Stars (comparison might be extreme but...). The franchise in question has to either A. EARN IT or B. at least represent something important in Nintendo's history, like how Ice Climbers were chosen to represent quirky NES action games that Nintendo's home console business had its roots in. Looking back at Melee and Brawl, not counting any retro/third party characters, the former only had one new series introduced (Fire Emblem), the latter only having two (Pikmin and WarioWare). These are all fairly major/noteworthy series with multiple installments, crossovers, and even anime/cartoons.

Looking at Smash 4's lineup, we did see an increase of new IPs, but Punch-Out!!, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit and such are once again notable and important franchises for Nintendo. Very rarely has there been an inclusion of a second party franchise in Smash, but when there is one, it's well earned. Kirby and Pokemon, for example, aren't directly made by any of Nintendo's inhouse developers, instead developed by HAL Laboratory and Gamefreak respectively, but they manage to be amongst the most popular and successful franchises owned by Nintendo. Of course, Kirby having connections to Sakurai/HAL Labs didn't hurt either...

I just don't think the same could be said for franchises/one-off games like Wonderful 101, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo!, Captain Rainbow, Dillon's Rolling Western and so on. They're just small time. They're partially the reason Sakurai even came up with assist trophies in the first place. So really, from this point on, I think we really ought to be looking at series developed by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo SPD, etc for series to include in Smash. I definitely think Splatoon, for example, has a good shot to be in the next Smash. It's basically the first major character based IP to come out of Nintendo EAD since Pikmin back in 2001, and I'm sure the Inklings could provide a unique and interesting playstyle.

Fire Emblem and Dillon are first party.

 

[Dinoman96]

Fire Emblem and Dillon are first party.

Um, no. Intelligent Systems is actually not owned by Nintendo, they just work closely with them. Vanpool is also most certainly not a subsidiary of Nintendo like Retro Studios or Monolift Soft.

 

[Deathlightning21]

Here's a controversial opinion of mine:

Spoiler

I think people holding out for characters such as Wonder Red, Isaac, Ray 01, Starfy, Saki and various other second party developed franchises on aren't going to be too happy in the end. As harsh as it may sound, I don't think there's really been a second party series worth representing in Smash since Fire Emblem's introduction in Melee.

Here's what Sakurai once said on the ol' Brawl dojo:



I think the above makes his intentions rather loud and clear: He's not going to include any old series of the street as if it were Playstation All Stars (comparison might be extreme but...). The franchise in question has to either A. EARN IT or B. at least represent something important in Nintendo's history, like how Ice Climbers were chosen to represent quirky NES action games that Nintendo's home console business had its roots in. Looking back at Melee and Brawl, not counting any retro/third party characters, the former only had one new series introduced (Fire Emblem), the latter only having two (Pikmin and WarioWare). These are all fairly major/noteworthy series with multiple installments, crossovers, and even anime/cartoons.

Looking at Smash 4's lineup, we did see an increase of new IPs, but Punch-Out!!, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit and such are once again notable and important franchises for Nintendo. Very rarely has there been an inclusion of a second party franchise in Smash, but when there is one, it's well earned. Kirby and Pokemon, for example, aren't directly made by any of Nintendo's inhouse developers, instead developed by HAL Laboratory and Gamefreak respectively, but they manage to be amongst the most popular and successful franchises owned by Nintendo. Of course, Kirby having connections to Sakurai/HAL Labs didn't hurt either...

I just don't think the same could be said for franchises/one-off games like Wonderful 101, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo!, Captain Rainbow, Dillon's Rolling Western and so on. They're just small time. They're partially the reason Sakurai even came up with assist trophies in the first place. So really, from this point on, I think we really ought to be looking at series developed by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo SPD, etc for series to include in Smash. I definitely think Splatoon, for example, has a good shot to be in the next Smash. It's basically the first major character based IP to come out of Nintendo EAD since Pikmin back in 2001, and I'm sure the Inklings could provide a unique and interesting playstyle.

Geez thats one big post! You tryin to overcompensate for something mate?

 

[Will]

Um, no. Intelligent Systems is actually not owned by Nintendo, they just work closely with them. Vanpool is also most certainly not a subsidiary of Nintendo like Retro Studios or Monolift Soft.

shots fired.

 

[Deathlightning21]

shots fired.

Fired Shots

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Um, no. Intelligent Systems is actually not owned by Nintendo, they just work closely with them. Vanpool is also most certainly not a subsidiary of Nintendo like Retro Studios or Monolift Soft.

Intelligent Systems is an in-house development studio. In other words they're literally set up inside Nintendo headquarters.
Edit: I apologize, they moved their studio from inside Nintendo's Research center in October 2013. Now they are closer to Nintendo's main HQ.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Um, no. Intelligent Systems is actually not owned by Nintendo, they just work closely with them. Vanpool is also most certainly not a subsidiary of Nintendo like Retro Studios or Monolift Soft.

Ok, it seems that I've been misinformed about Dillon being a 1st party franchise, but Fire Emblem is in fact 1st party. Intelligent Systems is a subsidiary of Nintendo, just like Retro Studios and Monolith Soft.

 

[Will]

Fired Shots

unemployed bullets,how could you?!

 

[Dinoman96]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=118917410#post118917410

Have a look over here. I don't see Intelligent Systems listed on their subsidiary list.

Name: Nintendo of America Inc
Region: United States of America
Capital (in thousands): $110,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo of Canada Ltd.
Region: Canada
Capital (in thousands): C$4,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo of Europe GmbH
Region: Germany
Capital (in thousands): €30,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo France S.A.R.L.
Region: France
Capital (in thousands): €10,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo Benelux B.V
Region: Netherlands
Capital (in thousands): €6,800
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo Iberica, S.A.
Region: Spain
Capital (in thousands): €3,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo RU LLC.
Region: Russia
Capital (in millions): RUB104
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo Australia Pty. Ltd.
Region: Australia
Capital (in thousands): AUD8,500
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo Taiwan Co. Ltd.
Region: Taiwan
Capital (in thousands): NT$5,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo of Korea Co. Ltd.
Region: South Korea
Capital (in thousands): ₩25,000
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: iQue, Ltd
Region: China
Capital (in thousands): $28,000 (was $26,000 in 2013)
Corporate role: Sales/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo Technology Development Inc.
Region: United States of America
Capital: The list states 1 US$, I assume they mean a million US$
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo Software Technology Corporation
Region: United States of America
Capital (in thousands): $20
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: SiRAS.comInc
Region: United States of America
Capital (in thousands): $900
Corporate role: Other (product return solutions, retail fraud etc.)
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Retro Studios, Inc.
Region: United States of America
Capital (in thousands): $10,001
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo (Hong Kong) Co., Ltd.
Region: Hong Kong
Capital (in thousands): HK$49,300
Corporate role: Sale/marketing
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Nintendo European Research and Development SAS
Region: France
Capital (in thousands): €300
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 97

Name: Nd Cube Company, Ltd.
Region: Japan (Tokyo)
Capital: ¥483000000
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 96

Name: 1-UP Studio Co., Ltd.
Region: Japan (Tokyo)
Capital (in millions): ¥90
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Monolith Software, Ltd. (was Inc.)
Region: Japan (Tokyo)
Capital (in millions): ¥75
Corporate role: Development
Ownership percentage: 97

Name: Nintendo Network Service Database Inc.
Region: Japan (Tokyo)
Capital (in millions): ¥480
Corporate role: Other (network services)
Ownership percentage: 100

Name: Mario Club Co., Ltd.
Region: Kyoto
Capital (in millions): ¥450
Corporate role: Development (debugging)
Ownership percentage: 100

 

[mark welford]

I need you guys opinion on this matter I've been thinking about for the last few sending a message to ZeRo about our campaign efforts over at the Wolf thread but I just can't bring myself to do it because how nervous I am. Now my question is to all you guys should I do it?

 

[A Distant Demon]

I need you guys opinion on this matter I've been thinking about for the last few sending a message to ZeRo about our campaign efforts over at the Wolf thread but I just can't bring myself to do it because how nervous I am. Now my question is to all you guys should I do it?

What does wolf say? "Dont think, act" or something like that (i lost my assualt cppy)

not like zero would bash the idea. Only positive results can arise.

 

[Dinoman96]

Is ZeRo really interested in the character side of things when it comes to Smash? I'd assume he, along with many other tournament players, are more focused on the competitive and metagame aspects of SSB.

 

[Deathlightning21]

unemployed bullets,how could you?!

They didn't do their jobs right, so they got the boot.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=118917410#post118917410

Have a look over here. I don't see Intelligent Systems listed on their subsidiary list.

They are technically not a subsidiary because they were an IN-HOUSE development studio. They are technically a part of one of those listed there they are literally just a team of developers inside Nintendo.

Edit: I just realized I'm arguing over a NeoGAF thread. DX and one where the user uses the phrase "74rd" no less.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here's a controversial opinion of mine:

Spoiler

I think people holding out for characters such as Wonder Red, Isaac, Ray 01, Starfy, Saki and various other second party developed franchises aren't going to be too happy in the end. As harsh as it may sound, I don't think there's really been a second party series worth representing in Smash since Fire Emblem's introduction in Melee.

Here's what Sakurai once said on the ol' Brawl dojo:



I think the above makes his intentions rather loud and clear: He's not going to include any old series of the street as if it were Playstation All Stars (comparison might be extreme but...). The franchise in question has to either A. EARN IT or B. at least represent something important in Nintendo's history, like how Ice Climbers were chosen to represent quirky NES action games that Nintendo's home console business had its roots in. Looking back at Melee and Brawl, not counting any retro/third party characters, the former only had one new series introduced (Fire Emblem), the latter only having two (Pikmin and WarioWare). These are all fairly major/noteworthy series with multiple installments, crossovers, and even anime/cartoons.

Looking at Smash 4's lineup, we did see an increase of new IPs, but Punch-Out!!, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit and such are once again notable and important franchises for Nintendo. Very rarely has there been an inclusion of a second party franchise in Smash, but when there is one, it's well earned. Kirby and Pokemon, for example, aren't directly made by any of Nintendo's inhouse developers, instead developed by HAL Laboratory and Gamefreak respectively, but they manage to be amongst the most popular and successful franchises owned by Nintendo. Of course, Kirby having connections to Sakurai/HAL Labs didn't hurt either...

I just don't think the same could be said for franchises/one-off games like Wonderful 101, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo!, Captain Rainbow, Dillon's Rolling Western and so on. They're just small time. They're partially the reason Sakurai even came up with assist trophies in the first place. So really, from this point on, I think we really ought to be looking at series developed by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo SPD, etc for series to include in Smash. I definitely think Splatoon, for example, has a good shot to be in the next Smash. It's basically the first major character based IP to come out of Nintendo EAD since Pikmin back in 2001, and I'm sure the Inklings could provide a unique and interesting playstyle.

I applaud, this is exactly how I feel.

 

[Bowserlick]

If Mewtwo has different specials in Smash 4 than Melee, should his old specials be included as custom moves?

 

[Kalimdori]

There's plenty of first party characters left,
Sami (Advance Wars)
Pious (Eternal Darkness)
Sturm (Advance Wars)
John Raimi (Geist)
Andy (Advance Wars)
Alexandra Roivas (Eternal Darkness)
Mr. Stevenson (Gumshoe)
Ridley (Metroid)
Style Savvy (Style savvy)
Dillon (Dillon's rolling western)
Waluigi (Wario/ Mario)
Ghetsis (Pokemon)
Inkling (Splatoon)
Henry Flemmings (Codename Steam)
Hades (Kid Icarus)
Takamaru (The mysterious murasame castle)
Leo Luster (Donkey Kong)
Rusty Slugger (Rusty's real deal baseball)
Oliver (Fire Emblem)
Colonel Vangarr (Xenoblade Chronicles)
Ryota Hayami (Wave Racer)
Kensuke Kimachi (1080 degrees)
Mr Hanafuda (Hanafuda cards)
there's quite a few left.

You realize I said "popular" first party characters, right? Of which very few of the characters you've listed actually are.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

You realize I said "popular" first party characters, right? Of which very few of the characters you've listed actually are.

Well they can always become popular with the help of campaigning, leaks, memes, and most importantly new games.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

If Mewtwo has different specials in Smash 4 than Melee, should his old specials be included as custom moves?

Is that even a question? Hell yes they should! It baffles me that Pit's Brawl move set wasn't included in the custom moves.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Is that even a question? Hell yes they should! It baffles me that Pit's Brawl move set wasn't included in the custom moves.

Or why they didn't just give them to Dark Pit.

 

[Kalimdori]

Well they can always become popular with the help of campaigning, leaks, memes, and most importantly new games.

But they aren't as of now. (And most of them will never, ever be) Which was my point.

 

[Will]

They didn't do their jobs right, so they got the boot.

They're just innocent bullets! They probably have nowhere left but McFirearms!

I applaud, this is exactly how I feel.

Uh...I don't...Something doesn't seem right...
this is how I feel about this situation.

 

[Arcadenik]

Here's a controversial opinion of mine:

Spoiler

I think people holding out for characters such as Wonder Red, Isaac, Ray 01, Starfy, Saki and various other second party developed franchises aren't going to be too happy in the end. As harsh as it may sound, I don't think there's really been a second party series worth representing in Smash since Fire Emblem's introduction in Melee.

Here's what Sakurai once said on the ol' Brawl dojo:



I think the above makes his intentions rather loud and clear: He's not going to include any old series of the street as if it were Playstation All Stars (comparison might be extreme but...). The franchise in question has to either A. EARN IT or B. at least represent something important in Nintendo's history, like how Ice Climbers were chosen to represent quirky NES action games that Nintendo's home console business had its roots in. Looking back at Melee and Brawl, not counting any retro/third party characters, the former only had one new series introduced (Fire Emblem), the latter only having two (Pikmin and WarioWare). These are all fairly major/noteworthy series with multiple installments, crossovers, and even anime/cartoons.

Looking at Smash 4's lineup, we did see an increase of new IPs, but Punch-Out!!, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit and such are once again notable and important franchises for Nintendo. Very rarely has there been an inclusion of a second party franchise in Smash, but when there is one, it's well earned. Kirby and Pokemon, for example, aren't directly made by any of Nintendo's inhouse developers, instead developed by HAL Laboratory and Gamefreak respectively, but they manage to be amongst the most popular and successful franchises owned by Nintendo. Of course, Kirby having connections to Sakurai/HAL Labs didn't hurt either...

I just don't think the same could be said for franchises/one-off games like Wonderful 101, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo!, Captain Rainbow, Dillon's Rolling Western and so on. They're just small time. They're partially the reason Sakurai even came up with assist trophies in the first place. So really, from this point on, I think we really ought to be looking at series developed by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo SPD, etc for series to include in Smash. I definitely think Splatoon, for example, has a good shot to be in the next Smash. It's basically the first major character based IP to come out of Nintendo EAD since Pikmin back in 2001, and I'm sure the Inklings could provide a unique and interesting playstyle.

That's what I've been saying for a long time but people didn't want to listen and told me there's no patterns... and they kept on supporting Isaac, Saki, Starfy, Custom Robo, etc. in denial.

 

[Kalimdori]

Here's a controversial opinion of mine:

Spoiler

I think people holding out for characters such as Wonder Red, Isaac, Ray 01, Starfy, Saki and various other second party developed franchises aren't going to be too happy in the end. As harsh as it may sound, I don't think there's really been a second party series worth representing in Smash since Fire Emblem's introduction in Melee.

Here's what Sakurai once said on the ol' Brawl dojo:



I think the above makes his intentions rather loud and clear: He's not going to include any old series of the street as if it were Playstation All Stars (comparison might be extreme but...). The franchise in question has to either A. EARN IT or B. at least represent something important in Nintendo's history, like how Ice Climbers were chosen to represent quirky NES action games that Nintendo's home console business had its roots in. Looking back at Melee and Brawl, not counting any retro/third party characters, the former only had one new series introduced (Fire Emblem), the latter only having two (Pikmin and WarioWare). These are all fairly major/noteworthy series with multiple installments, crossovers, and even anime/cartoons.

Looking at Smash 4's lineup, we did see an increase of new IPs, but Punch-Out!!, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit and such are once again notable and important franchises for Nintendo. Very rarely has there been an inclusion of a second party franchise in Smash, but when there is one, it's well earned. Kirby and Pokemon, for example, aren't directly made by any of Nintendo's inhouse developers, instead developed by HAL Laboratory and Gamefreak respectively, but they manage to be amongst the most popular and successful franchises owned by Nintendo. Of course, Kirby having connections to Sakurai/HAL Labs didn't hurt either...

I just don't think the same could be said for franchises/one-off games like Wonderful 101, Custom Robo, Chibi-Robo!, Captain Rainbow, Dillon's Rolling Western and so on. They're just small time. They're partially the reason Sakurai even came up with assist trophies in the first place. So really, from this point on, I think we really ought to be looking at series developed by Nintendo EAD, Nintendo SPD, etc for series to include in Smash. I definitely think Splatoon, for example, has a good shot to be in the next Smash. It's basically the first major character based IP to come out of Nintendo EAD since Pikmin back in 2001, and I'm sure the Inklings could provide a unique and interesting playstyle.

I applaud, this is exactly how I feel.

That's what I've been saying for a long time but people didn't want to listen and told me there's no patterns... and they kept on supporting Isaac, Saki, Starfy, Custom Robo, etc. in denial.

Explain . Although Technically Second Party characters don't even exist, such a thing is impossible

Particularly you Arcadenik, because if you think people are "in denial" supporting these characters I'd love to hear how you have deluded yourself into ignoring Shulk

 

[EmeraldDragonair]

That's what I've been saying for a long time but people didn't want to listen and told me there's no patterns... and they kept on supporting Isaac, Saki, Starfy, Custom Robo, etc. in denial.

Is that a Starfy support gif in your signature?

The problem with these games isn't so much who makes them (as per OP) its more that, asides from Golden Sun (which OP din't mention anyway), none have ever been commercially successful, and the last Golden Sun, while still selling better than most other games in that list, wasn't that successful either. If Dark Dawn had sold as well as Punch-Out Wii or FE: Awakening or KI: Upraising (only one of which was actually made by Nintendo themselves) then Isaac would be in. It didn't so he isn't.

Sales for comparison (from VG charts, but their guestimations usually aren't off that much on the old games, so Pokemon and Kirby are the only ones who would be significantly out)
"2nd party" franchises
Pokemon (main series only) 189.28M or 18.93M on average (including RBY, GSC, etc as one game, but remakes separately)
Kirby 35.18M or about 1.54M average over 17 non-spinoff games
Golden Sun 3.73m or 1.24M average over 3 Games.
Xenoblade Chronicles 0.89M from 1 Game
The Legendary Starfy 0.84 from 1 Game.
Fire Emblem 7.61 or 0.65M average over 11 games (FE1 and Gaiden don't have sales listed)
Advance Wars 2.34M or 0.58M average over 4 games (only the GBA and Ds games had sales listed)
Mother 1.67M or 0.55M average over 3 Games
Custom Robo 1.24 or 0.31M average over 4 Games
Sin and Punishment .55M or 0.27M average over 2 Games
Chibi Robo .77M or .15M average over 5 Games

So Golden Sun isn't Too Small to be in Smash.
And neither is Wars unless you think Mother shouldn't be, which very much fits the earlier theme of controversial opinions.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Controversial opinions eh? Here's a doozy:

Spoiler

I think the Smash speculation community is too quick to judge how good a character would be prior to labelling them 'boring' or 'unique'.

Pac-Man, Duck Hunt (Dog) and Rosalina were all considered boring choices with little moveset potential prior to getting in the game. Low and behold, people now love them, they all have unique and interesting movesets and are considered some of the best additions in the game.

Palutena meanwhile was part of Smashboards "Elite Four", many seeing her as being one of the most unique and deserving individuals, yet many ended up completely underwhelmed by her inclusion. Her gimmick was essentially having loads of moveset potential that Sakurai couldn't decide upon, but the majority still weren't impressed.

Bizarrely Little Mac ended up as a character that was both in Smashboards "Elite Four" and as a character many thought would be dull due to the fact he only punches.

Bowser Jr. was a particularly interesting case since many who originally hated the idea of him being included due to the popular idea of him being based entirely around his paintbrush(or the Shadow Mario transformation idea), were delighted by his inclusion in the Koopa car, and having the Koopalings as alts. Bowser Jr. paintbrush fans however, were somewhat less pleased by essentially being the Koopa Clown Car rather than Bowser Jr.

Essentially Smash Speculators don't know what will be boring and what won't until the character comes into fruition.

Claiming to boycott the game because your favourite character didn't get in is pointless.

We all know you're getting it regardless. That character wasn't in any previous Smash either and you still got them. Unless your favourite is a cut veteran that is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Second Party isn't even a thing.

 

[AEMehr]

As Swamp said, there is no such thing as a "2nd-Party". The IPs are still completely owned by Nintendo, they just aren't made in-house.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

No such thing as second party? Not according to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer#Second-party_developer

 

[FalKoopa]

No such thing as second party? Not according to Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer#Second-party_developer

You should read it before you post the link.

In reality, the resulting game is first party (since it is funded by the platform holder who usually owns the resulting IP), but the term helps to distinguish independent studios from those directly owned by the platform holder. These studios may have exclusive publishing agreements (or other business relationships) with the platform holder, while maintaining independence. Examples are Insomniac Games (which previously developed games solely for Sony's PlayStation platforms as an independent studio) and Game Freak (which primarily develops the Nintendo-exclusive Pokémon game series).

In other words, the franchise is still 1st party.

 

[Kenith]

While all of these franchises are made my second parties, that's not important. The key word here is "niche".
My only contribution to this discussion is that to remember that Shulk is playable in Smash, and I am certain he was in the same group as those guys before he was confirmed. Correct me if I misremember that.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm just pointing out that the idea and term of 2nd party exists even if it's not official. The was there to indicate that I wasn't being completely serious.

 

[Arcadenik]

Explain . Although Technically Second Party characters don't even exist, such a thing is impossible

Particularly you Arcadenik, because if you think people are "in denial" supporting these characters I'd love to hear how you have deluded yourself into ignoring Shulk

Like Sakurai himself said, Shulk is not a character Sakurai normally would add. That makes him the exception.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Like Sakurai himself said, Shulk is not a character Sakurai normally would add. That makes him the exception.

I think that is in regards to gameplay.

I used to think he meant the series, but not anymore.

 

[Kenith]

Like Sakurai himself said, Shulk is not a character Sakurai normally would add. That makes him the exception.

Like Swamp said, I think he's referring to the stat altering gimmick, which, I agree with Sakurai, is not something I would ever expect to see in Smash and would rather not see much of.

 

[AEMehr]

I'm just pointing out that the idea and term of 2nd party exists even if it's not official. The was there to indicate that I wasn't being completely serious.

Well it only exists because we created it, lol.

Also using wikipedia as a credible source!?!?! has school taught you nothing

 

[Arcadenik]

Sure, it was the gameplay and not the fact the series is more niche than Fire Emblem.

So these franchises are first-party, not second-party? Okay, I guess they didn't get in because they don't have the Nintendo In-House Bias. Kinda like how Kirby/Kid Icarus series have the Sakurai Bias.

 

[Kenith]

Well it only exists because we created it, lol.

Also using wikipedia as a credible source!?!?! has school taught you nothing

The term "second-party" was not created on Smashboards.