Character Discussion Thread

[N3ON]

I don't think recency should be the deciding factor for a character to get in. Otherwise, Ike would have gotten the boot in favor of Chrom.

What Sakurai looks for when including characters is different between newcomers and veterans. Deciding factor maybe not, but it'd be naive to think recency didn't play quite a large factor in the newcomer selection this time around, more so than in past Smash games.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

I don't think recency should be the deciding factor for a character to get in. Otherwise, Ike would have gotten the boot in favor of Chrom. But yeah, Lyn using her quick draw would be unique in Smash and her counter would be different from Marth's. I would love to see her in the series someway.

Eh, I disagree with Adult OoT Link having to be in for Young OoT Link to be in. Toon Link was in the roster twice when the Zelda reps were all TP based with the exception of him. I agree with the 3DS limitations being a factor though. If Sakurai is ever going to bring the Ice Climbers in as a Wii U exclusive, YLink should be close to follow.

I mean FE has so much to offer. So many classes are not represented. FE has only one AT. Lyn which is a Lord. Therefore I am glad that we got at least Robin. He is like a half lord with magic. But I was disappointed that they did not include Micaiah. I wished that they would have cut Ike for her sake. But Robin is just fine. And Micaiah is the real protagonist of RD. She would have been 100% magic based. Or they could have added Tiki. A manakete (dragon shifter) who is a recurring character in the series.

You really don't see how having Young Link back is obsolete? I don't blame you. I would be ok with him back. Actually what would make me even happier is to have most if not all the cut veterans from Melee and Brawl back in two separate DLC packs that come with some past stages!

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Ruler Nr.1 I have for Waluigi to appear in Smash: Appear in a game that isn't Mario Party, Tennis, Golf, Kart of Dance Dance Revolution. Wario Ware would be great, and if he'd appear in that, I would support him. Untill then: a big no.

If Waluigi does become playable in a smash bros, this HAS to be one of his taunts,

Spoiler

 

[A Distant Demon]

I find it strange how popular Waluigi seems to be outside of Smash compared to Smash. I have never seen a negative opinion towards waluigi outside of smash while here he can be quite divisive. I mean I agree but it's interesting.
kind of an inverse toad. hated in the community enjoyed out of it. (well not by that many people here but still)

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

What Sakurai looks for when including characters is different between newcomers and veterans. Deciding factor maybe not, but it'd be naive to think recency didn't play quite a large factor in the newcomer selection this time around, more so than in past Smash games.

( and to some extent ) all came out post Brawl, 7/14 newcomers.

 

[N3ON]

( and to some extent ) all came out post Brawl, 7/14 newcomers.

What I find more telling is and to some extent all had relatively notable appearances in games post Brawl, 13/14 Nintendo newcomers.

(also WFT and Rosalina came out pre-Brawl, but after its roster was decided)

 

[Will]

kind of an inverse toad.

Toad? TOAD?!

No. CAPTAIN Toad! I feel like he could be more of a representation,but sort of like an Anti-Jigglypuff. You see,he can't jump. With his heavy backpack,he would instantly be KO'd once he hits the air. But we could use it to our advantage by making that only attacks give little knockback or even not letting him in the air. It's complex,and would probably never happen,but it's cool to think about in my perspective. Also,you can't just have Captain Toad without that sweet sweet "Ready for Adventure!"

 

[Xzsmmc]

I find it strange how popular Waluigi seems to be outside of Smash compared to Smash. I have never seen a negative opinion towards waluigi outside of smash while here he can be quite divisive. I mean I agree but it's interesting.
kind of an inverse toad. hated in the community enjoyed out of it. (well not by that many people here but still)

Waluigi is just as divided outside of SSB. He's a very love it or hate it character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I personally don't think Captain Toad doesn't have enough prominence to the Mario series to make him a justifiable choice, if he had more games like Tingle then I could see him as a pretty good possibility.

 

[Kalimdori]

I personally don't think Captain Toad doesn't have enough prominence to the Mario series to make him a justifiable choice, if he had more games like Tingle then I could see him as a pretty good possibility.

Combined with the fact that he is a Toad, and as such could represent the Toad series, I can easily see him being a justifiable choice. His actual character has been around just as long as Rosalina has, and unlike Rosalina, he got his own game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Could, but I think Sakurai would probably see him as his own character with his own series.

 

[Ura]

Ruler Nr.1 I have for Waluigi to appear in Smash: Appear in a game that isn't Mario Party, Tennis, Golf, Kart of Dance Dance Revolution. Wario Ware would be great, and if he'd appear in that, I would support him. Untill then: a big no.

That's the thing, Nintendo hasn't gave him the chance to star in a big game or even have his own game. They need to at least try to give him his own game on the 3DS before saying things like he can't have one or whatever. If it flops, then so be it. If it's a success, then maybe they outta be more open minded as to letting him be in Smash or other games.

You really don't see how having Young Link back is obsolete? I don't blame you. I would be ok with him back. Actually what would make me even happier is to have most if not all the cut veterans from Melee and Brawl back in two separate DLC packs that come with some past stages!

Yeah, I thought of something like that. One DLC pack for Melee, (Roy, Young Link, Pichu, Ice Climbers + Melee Stages) one for Brawl (Lucas, Snake, Wolf, Squirtle, Ivysaur + Brawl Stages), and the other for new characters (Waluigi, Isaac, Lyn, K. Rool + New Stages).

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

What I find more telling is and to some extent all had relatively notable appearances in games post Brawl, 13/14 Nintendo newcomers.

(also WFT and Rosalina came out pre-Brawl, but after its roster was decided)

Though in 's case I'd argue have more notable appearances than now.

That's the thing, Nintendo hasn't gave him the chance to star in a big game or even have his own game. They need to at least try to give him his own game on the 3DS before saying things like he can't have one or whatever. If it flops, then so be it. If it's a success, then maybe they outta be more open minded as to letting him be in Smash or other games.

They should put him in a Wario ware game to start, how about Wario Ware 3D (where is that game? It should have come out by now), anyway he could have his micro games be focused around winning, and getting dates, because Waluigi.

Or have him be in a Wario Land/World/Master of Disguise game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Could, but I think Sakurai would probably see him as his own character with his own series.

Oh please. Dr. Mario had several games in his own series yet he is still under the greater Mario series with the Mushroom icon. I can see Toad getting in as a Mario character, not as a Captain Toad character.

 

[Deleted member]

Ruler Nr.1 I have for Waluigi to appear in Smash: Appear in a game that isn't Mario Party, Tennis, Golf, Kart of Dance Dance Revolution.

Super Mario Strikers
Mario Strikers Charged
Mario Superstar Baseball
Mario Super Sluggers
Mario Hoops 3-on-3
Mario Sports Mix
Idataki Street DS
Fortune Street
Yakuman DS
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympic Games
Game & Watch Gallery 4

 

[BluePikmin11]

Oh please. Dr. Mario had several games in his own series yet he is still under the greater Mario series with the Mushroom icon. I can see Toad getting in as a Mario character, not as a Captain Toad character.

I'm starting to wonder if the icons mean much anymore.

 

[N3ON]

If Luigi doesn't get his own icon, if Doc doesn't get his, Toad ain't getting one.

I could see Tingle getting one. But I doubt he would. I also doubt he'll actually wind up playable at this point.

Though in 's case I'd argue have more notable appearances than now..

Mmmm, maybe post Brawl. In general I dunno. Probably not. But six of one, both are fairly notable.

Super Mario Strikers
Mario Strikers Charged
Mario Superstar Baseball
Mario Super Sluggers
Mario Hoops 3-on-3
Mario Sports Mix
Idataki Street DS
Fortune Street
Yakuman DS
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympic Games
Game & Watch Gallery 4

Yakuman DS? Holy ****, how is he not playable already!?!?

I'm starting to wonder if the icons mean much anymore.

Did they ever?

 

[Deleted member]

While the idea of Captain Toad getting his own icon is farfetched, stranger things have happened....

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm starting to wonder if the icons mean much anymore.

They are just to categorize characters, stages, items, etc. under one series. I mean, you aren't gonna label Samus as a Kid Icarus character with the bow icon.

I'm not sure why you think that Toad doesn't have merits to get in Smash as a Captain Toad character when the fact it is Toad is more than enough to justify getting in Smash. It doesn't matter if Captain Toad is not canonically THE Toad... both are Toads... and Nintendo uses Toad to promote Captain Toad, Blue Toad, and THE Toad. If Toad gets in Smash, he will have alts based on these promoted Toads anyway. It makes no difference to Nintendo.

 

[Ura]

Though in 's case I'd argue have more notable appearances than now.

They should put him in a Wario ware game to start, how about Wario Ware 3D (where is that game? It should have come out by now), anyway he could have his micro games be focused around winning, and getting dates, because Waluigi.

Or have him be in a Wario Land/World/Master of Disguise game.

Personally, I would rather Waluigi revert to the menacing no good SOB he was in his N64 appearances before he became comic relief. Ya know, the guy that whooped Bowser in MP3 and was one of the last villains in the game. Also the same guy that was really hyped in Mario Tennis to be something special. Give him his old evil glowing eyes again to show he's a force to be reckoned with. If they gave him a game with his Mario Tennis/Mario Part 3 personality, i'm sure people's perception of him will change and they won't view him as a annoying goofball.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

Personally, I would rather Waluigi revert to the menacing no good SOB he was in his N64 appearances before he became comic relief. Ya know, the guy that whooped Bowser in MP3 and was one of the last villains in the game. Also the same guy that was really hyped in Mario Tennis to be something special. Give him his old evil glowing eyes again to show he's a force to be reckoned with. If they gave him a game with his Mario Tennis/Mario Part 3 personality, i'm sure people's perception of him will change and they won't view him as a annoying goofball.

I actually envisioned him using his purple vines in his moveset, ex. chain grab, side B: Walluigi. His final smash could be the super vine whip from strikers. Taunts
1. Eyes glow
2. laughs and cracks a vine whip.
3.

Spoiler

Just too good to pass up

 

[pupNapoleon]

I honestly think that Captain Toad, being one of the more unique inventions of Mario's games we have seen in any recent time, has an exceptional number of traits that would become a very interesting moveset.

The not jumping, exploration, and environmental aspects are all truly one of a kind.

 

[Arcadenik]

I honestly think that Captain Toad, being one of the more unique inventions of Mario's games we have seen in any recent time, has an exceptional number of traits that would become a very interesting moveset.

The not jumping, exploration, and environmental aspects are all truly one of a kind.

Exploration? How are you gonna translate exploring into a move?

Environmental? Do you mean spinwheels, touchstones, flip panels, beep blocks, and boost pads? I could see that working... maybe Toad could "beep block" part of the Final Destination into a hole that characters can fall through... and "beep block" one of the floating platforms in Battlefield to solid form that characters cannot jump/fall through...

And Toad needs to be able to jump regardless. How the hell will he be able to survive on scrolling stages like Mushroomy Kingdom and 3D Land if he cannot jump over pipes, blocks, and holes? Just give him Little Mac's jumping height to show that he is a poor jumper.

 

[Wintropy]

Toad had pretty poor jumping skills in Super Mario Bros. 2, I think Mac-level jumping would be a nice tribute to that.

 

[Frostwraith]

Speaking of newcomers in Smash 4, indeed, majority of them had major appearances between Brawl and Smash 4.

- The New Super Mario Bros. series brought them all together for the first time. The moveset revolving around the Clown Car is also heavily inspired by the same series. The Koopalings appeared as playable characters in Mario Kart 8, while Bowser Jr. has been recurring since his debut.
- Major character in Kid Icarus: Uprising.
- Fully-evolved starter Pokémon from Pokémon X / Y.
- His series got rebooted with Punch-Out!! (Wii), where the design also comes from.
- Major character in Fire Emblem: Awakening.
- Miis have been used for Nintendo's hardware since the Wii.
- Series reboot with Kid Icarus: Uprising, being in a similar situation as Little Mac.
- Main player character from Fire Emblem: Awakening.
- Major character in her debut game, Super Mario Galaxy, and having recurring roles in the Mario series since then.
- Protagonist of Xenoblade Chronicles, one of the newest Nintendo IPs and a critically acclaimed RPG. The fact there's a sequel about to release likely favored Shulk's inclusion as well.
- Player character from Animal Crossing, a series that had titles on the Wii and 3DS.
- Wii Fit was a major success on the Wii.

- Though Pac-Man and Mega Man may have had recent appearances, their portrayal is based on their earliest games, so they're kind of retro characters in that regard, hailing back to what made them famous in the first place. Duck Hunt is the token retro newcomer the Smash series always had since Melee.

- Though not a separate character, being relegated as an alt for Olimar, he is still a major character, being the protagonist of Pikmin 3.

 

[Will]

I personally don't think Captain Toad doesn't have enough prominence to the Mario series to make him a justifiable choice, if he had more games like Tingle then I could see him as a pretty good possibility.

Oi m8,don't make me talk about Sable. He's the same category in what you just said.

Exploration? How are you gonna translate exploring into a move?

Environmental? Do you mean spinwheels, touchstones, flip panels, beep blocks, and boost pads? I could see that working... maybe Toad could "beep block" part of the Final Destination into a hole that characters can fall through... and "beep block" one of the floating platforms in Battlefield to solid form that characters cannot jump/fall through...

And Toad needs to be able to jump regardless. How the hell will he be able to survive on scrolling stages like Mushroomy Kingdom and 3D Land if he cannot jump over pipes, blocks, and holes? Just give him Little Mac's jumping height to show that he is a poor jumper.

...or just make him as an Omega Stage only character. Ready for glory?

 

[Geno Boost]

In regards to third parties, I made this roster last month:
View attachment 38803

If we did actually have 8 third party characters, does this seem about right?

i cant see sakurai picking layton he isnt the same as other 3rd parties and he isnt popular as them and his seires isnt very popular as the other i think he should pick crash bandicoot

 

[A Distant Demon]

i cant see sakurai picking layton he isnt the same as other 3rd parties and he isnt popular as them and his seires isnt very popular as the other i think he should pick crash bandicoot

Layton is from a popular enough series with very large ties to nintendo with to my knowledge all of them being non nintendo consoles. No idea how a moveset would work because I haven't played any but he at least makes a lot of sense. Basically phoenix wright but without being in UMVC3

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Another Waluigi discussion? REALLY?

I'm a Waluigi fan, but here's my beef about it.

First appeared in a Non Canon title + has little to no bearing whatsoever on the canonical importance of the Mario franchise + Is already good enough as an Assist Trophy + does not look like he will ever be in a canon game = Big Fat No!

 

[Geno Boost]

Layton is from a popular enough series with very large ties to nintendo with to my knowledge all of them being non nintendo consoles. No idea how a moveset would work because I haven't played any but he at least makes a lot of sense. Basically phoenix wright but without being in UMVC3

but he isnt the same as the others
layton: 7 games only +never met a nintedo character +he is been here since only 7 years +isnt very big franchise
bomberman: more than 70 games +met a nintendo character +he is here since 32 years +big franchise
black mage: more than 18 games +met a nintendo character +he is here since 27 years +big franchise
banjo-kazooie: more than 8 games +met a nintendo character +he is here since 17 years +isnt very big franchise but he is very popular and memorable and from a big company
rayman: more than 43 games +met a nintendo character +he is here since 20 years +big franchise

 

[Ura]

Another Waluigi discussion? REALLY?

I'm a Waluigi fan, but here's my beef about it.

First appeared in a Non Canon title + has little to no bearing whatsoever on the canonical importance of the Mario franchise + Is already good enough as an Assist Trophy + does not look like he will ever be in a canon game = Big Fat No!

- Why does Non-Canon matter? All the Mario spinoff games are still official Nintendo games.
- Read above. He's really hasn't been given the chance to really be important in a Mario game at all. Maybe Smash can be a start for him to have his own breakthrough and have a role in future Mario games or even star in his own game.

I think some people need to be more open minded and not all "GRR NO! (insert reason here) so he can't be in the game!" Really, he hasn't even been in the game so you can't judge and say he wouldn't fit.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

- Why does Non-Canon matter? All the Mario spinoff games are still official Nintendo games.

Doesn't matter. Non Canon characters have never been playable in Smash, and the way things are going, they might never be.

Popularity alone is not enough to get you in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't matter. Non Canon characters have never been playable in Smash, and the way things are going, they might never be.

Do I really need to tell you how this statement is bull**** again?

EDIT: Even ignoring the fact that you can't seem to grasp that "spin-off" =/= "non-canon" which would denounce the entire ****ing Mario franchise as "non-canon" due to being a spin-off of the original Donkey Kong if it did, what in the hell do you call this?

It's been confirmed by Miyamoto that Mario never really practiced medicine, meaning Dr. Mario is non-canon.
So even if there was a division between "canon" and "non-canon" Mario games outside the Dr. Mario sub-franchise, Dr. Mario being in Smash renders your statement about "non-canon characters never being playable in Smash" to be an outright LIE.

 

[Diddy Kong]

MY LIKES ARE BETTER THAN YOUR LIKES STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE!

 

[Ura]

Doesn't matter. Non Canon characters have never been playable in Smash, and the way things are going, they might never be.

Well, I guess Dr. Mario had such a tremendous impact in the Mario canon that Sakurai was forced to bring him in.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Oi m8,don't make me talk about Sable. He's the same category in what you just said.

I'm just waiting for a new FtFtBT game to come out ok, it takes time to be prominent to Nintendo.

 

[Twin Shot]

I think some cut Vets could easily be back as Palette Swap Characters or Clones, really, if it makes people happy and is easy (comparative to scratch characters), why not?

---------------------------------------------------------

I think the addition of two NEW 3rd parties every game would work well to a certain extent.
Just make sure to have more Nintendo new comers than Third Parties as that would be a problem.

Really all you need are all of the Third Party Characters Back (uhuhm, SNAKE) and add Simon Belmont, Ray Man and Black Mage and you are set. Iconic Characters from Iconic games relative to when they were iconic to Nintendo.

If Wonder Red and Bayonetta continue to do as they do, they could be potentials as well.

(not saying characters like Bomberman, Geno, layton etc are impossible - just think the above are priority and more iconic STILL as a whole.)

 

[Kenith]

i cant see sakurai picking layton he isnt the same as other 3rd parties and he isnt popular as them and his seires isnt very popular as the other i think he should pick crash bandicoot

If there's nine third party characters, then Professor Layton is a very likely candidate.
I don't know popular Layton is but I'd easily put him on the level of Snake.

 

[Dinoman96]

I don't know popular Layton is but I'd easily put him on the level of Snake.

Personally, I kinda doubt that. The MGS series has sold just about 40 million. Layton on the other hand has only sold 15 million. I'm sure Snake and MG have left a bigger impact on games than Layton has.

Sonic, Pac-Man, Megaman and MGS have all sold at least 30 million copies. I'd say that's a good cutoff for worthy third party additions. I've posted this before, but NeoGAF's Ryce once made a list of all (non-licensed) third party series that have surpassed this threshold.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102886802&postcount=10235

The Sims
Grand Theft Auto
Need for Speed
Tetris
Call of Duty
Final Fantasy
Sonic the Hedgehog
Assassin’s Creed
The Oregon Trail
Dragon Quest
Battlefield
Resident Evil
Crash Bandicoot
Bejeweled
Just Dance
Pac-Man
Lineage
Tekken
Guitar Hero
Tap Tap
Tomb Raider
Street Fighter
Minecraft
Metal Gear
Mortal Kombat
Medal of Honor
Mega Man

 

[Starcutter]

I think 15 million is not bad, imo.

Sales aren't the deciding factor on whether or not a character gets in, by the way. It does help, though.

If there's nine third party characters, then Professor Layton is a very likely candidate.
I don't know popular Layton is but I'd easily put him on the level of Snake.

I think in terms of Nintendo relevance, Laton trumps snake in terms of everything.

I could be wrong. I don't know how well the first couple metal gears did on Nintendo consoles, so...