Character Discussion Thread

[Wintropy]

Third-party representation:

Is there or should there be a limit?

Discuss.

Spoiler: Opinon

I think three is fine. Maybe at an absolute stretch, six, and that's only because I'm being hugely biased towards my favourite characters (Layton, Rayman, KOS-MOS, Black Mage, etc).

 

[Kenith]

Third-party representation:
Is there or should there be a limit?
Discuss.

Spoiler: Opinon

I think three is fine. Maybe at an absolute stretch, six, and that's only because I'm being hugely biased towards my favourite characters (Layton, Rayman, KOS-MOS, Black Mage, etc).

No.
If a character is a good fit for Smash Bros., is reasonable iconic and is relevant to Nintendo in some way I say there's nothing stopping them from getting into Smash Bros.
I don't know about KOS-MOS, but I am favour of Black Mage and Layton. Rayman is cool but I really don't want Ubisoft getting a character in Smash anymore.

 

[Wintropy]

No.
If a character is a good fit for Smash Bros., is reasonable iconic and is relevant to Nintendo in some way I say there's nothing stopping them from getting into Smash Bros.
I don't know about KOS-MOS, but I am favour of Black Mage and Layton. Rayman is cool but I really don't want Ubisoft getting a character in Smash anymore.

KOS-MOS has ****-all to do with Nintendo, save a very, very tenuous link to Xenoblade by virtue of being in one of its predecessors, but she's adorable and cool and I must stress that I am totally and utterly biased towards her for those reasons. :3

Supposing Ninty bought the rights to Xenosaga from Namco and re-released in on a Nintendo platform, then yeah, it'd be possible. I think Ninty owns some of the rights to Layton, so possibly he'd count as colloquially second-party?

 

[Kenith]

In short, no, I don't think there needs to be a limit on third parties yet.
I mean, I'm sure there were a few people who thought we wouldn't have seven Mario characters.

 

[Wintropy]

In short, no, I don't think there needs to be a limit on third parties yet.
I mean, I'm sure there were a few people who thought we wouldn't have seven Mario characters.

*Peers at her custom roster*

Well okay then, let the good times roll~ :3

 

[Kenith]

Also, can Sakurai stop being afraid of realistic looking weapons and put Snake back in so we can get some Metal Gear Rising music?
Like, hfs dude.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Third-party representation:

Is there or should there be a limit?

Discuss.

Spoiler: Opinon

I think three is fine. Maybe at an absolute stretch, six, and that's only because I'm being hugely biased towards my favourite characters (Layton, Rayman, KOS-MOS, Black Mage, etc).

I think the third party representation is just fine, I don't want any multiple reps for ANY third party franchise. I'll admit some bias that the only extra rep for a third party franchise I would EVER be cool with is Tails. Shadow, Bass, Mrs PacMan, Dr Wily, Ghosts, and Dr Eggman can stay away.

Heck, I don't even think ANYMORE third party characters are getting in, especially not as DLC. I don't even expect any third party newcomers for the next title.

 

[Kenith]

In regards to third parties, I made this roster last month:

If we did actually have 8 third party characters, does this seem about right?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Who wouldn't want more characters from the already represented companies?
I'd still like to see Bayonetta make it even though Sonic is already in the game.

 

[Kenith]

Who wouldn't want more characters from the already represented companies?
I'd still like to see Bayonetta make it even though Sonic is already in the game.

Or characters from half of the IPs owned by Capcom.
Namely Amaterasu, Leon/Jill, Phoenix Wright, and Strider Hiryu.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

In regards to third parties, I made this roster last month:
View attachment 38803

If we did actually have 8 third party characters, does this seem about right?

Considering that Nintendo owns the Intellectual Properties for Wonderful 101 and Xenoblade Chronicles, and since Banjo is owned by Microsoft, that does seem accurate, except replace Geno with Sora.

 

[Will]

Howdy neighbors,I'm back. My computer ded'd. Now I have a new one. Excuse me while I re-download all of my gifs.

 

[Kenith]

Considering that Nintendo owns the Intellectual Properties for Wonderful 101 and Xenoblade Chronicles, and since Banjo is owned by Microsoft, that does seem accurate, except replace Geno with Sora.

No...Geno doesn't count. Although he is technically a third party, that wasn't the point.

 

[Pallex]

Black Shadow also has importance in the F-Zero verse, as he is the main antagonist, more of an antagonist than Goroh.

The anime is a different continuity from the game. If being "main antagonist" was that important then we would have seen Deathborn, K. Rool, Captain Syrup and maybe Ridley as playable characters. Being main antagonist alone isn't enough in my opinion.

 

[Argos]

I don't mind third parties. Nintendo obviously has a vested interest in keeping third party contribution fairly under control - Smash is an amazing tool for brand recognition, I know that when I was first playing Smash 64 I didn't know who half the characters were and became much more interested in them knowing that they were 'official' Nintendo characters - but my priorities aren't Nintendo's. I'd be interested in any characters that have a recognized place in video game history in general and Nintendo platforms in particular.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

I think the third party representation is just fine, I don't want any multiple reps for ANY third party franchise. I'll admit some bias that the only extra rep for a third party franchise I would EVER be cool with is Tails. Shadow, Bass, Mrs PacMan, Dr Wily, Ghosts, and Dr Eggman can stay away.

Heck, I don't even think ANYMORE third party characters are getting in, especially not as DLC. I don't even expect any third party newcomers for the next title.

Awww what do you have against Shadow?
I do agree with you on Tails. And my dream even though it would NEVER happen would be to just see them alongside Sonic

I always thought they would be the perfect balance of Sonic characters amongst many nintendo characters. Some of these would only happen if SEGA actually helped Sakurai with Smash or something.
..But Shadow will always be an Assist and the rest will always be background elements of Green Hill Zone...

 

[Deleted member]

Also, can Sakurai stop being afraid of realistic looking weapons and put Snake back in so we can get some Metal Gear Rising music?
Like, hfs dude.

Sakurai's issue was realistic firearms and knives (due to differences in viewpoint between Japan's "knives are no different from swords" and overseas' "swords are more in line with fantasy; knives are too close to home").

That was the whole point of Snake using explosives in Brawl; why would it have been reason why he was cut?

 

[Kenith]

Sakurai's issue was realistic firearms and knives (due to differences in viewpoint between Japan's "knives are no different from swords" and overseas' "swords are more in line with fantasy; knives are too close to home").
That was the whole point of Snake using explosives in Brawl; why would it have been reason why he was cut?

I was joking in order to segway into talking about how awesome MGR's soundtrack is.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Sakurai's issue was realistic firearms and knives (due to differences in viewpoint between Japan's "knives are no different from swords" and overseas' "swords are more in line with fantasy; knives are too close to home").

That was the whole point of Snake using explosives in Brawl; why would it have been reason why he was cut?

Knives are honestly a stupid comparison. Knives would be perfectly fine, I'd actually enjoy Sheik better if Sheik did use knives. Knives also work well from the perspective of having a knife/dagger fighting moveset.


I mean, yeah, Knives are relatively common place compared to swords... for COOKING. Fantasy knives/daggers aren't really related to that at all, so I don't really understand the logic of lacking knives (which I'm pretty sure includes Daggers in with that).

 

[Deleted member]

Third-party representation:

Is there or should there be a limit?

Discuss.

There should be a limit, considering that this isn't a general video game free for all, it's for Nintendo.
That being said, on the subject of whether or not there is one in place, I'd say there is. 3.
Think about it, in Brawl, it was stated that 1 to 2 more guests after Snake may be included. This implies that 3 was the maximum for guests, which is also enforced by Brawl's music category data, which has a missing section after Sonic (which was filled by Pac-Man in Smash 4) that shows preparation for a third guest if need be.
In Smash 4, Snake was seemingly bumped out for no reason while both Mega Man (who takes over Metal Gear's music section) and Pac-Man are included. And unlike Brawl, none of the guests were added at the last minute; they were all decided ahead of time.

I think the limit should be bumped to 5 so that Snake can return and one more guest can have their chance without bumping out someone else.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sorry, what I'm saying is, he's different enough compared to the others that he should maintain his own slot. The other two are virtually identical, even the "new" moves they haven't aren't that different.


As for FE... yeah, there's no way in any shape or form we'll get a new FE character as DLC. I am a huge FE fan and I understand that. I figured 4 was a long shot, and we only got a fourth as an almost direct clone who can hardly be called a separate character.



I think Lyn would've been a great character, but I'm set in my mind now that only new Fire Emblem characters will ever get added as playable characters in Smash. Which sucks because Lyn would represent the Myrmidon class very well.

I don't think we are stuck with the FE characters we have now... at all.
I'm pretty sure Lucina is out next game. If not, FE may just get five characters then.

 

[Deleted member]

Knives are honestly a stupid comparison. Knives would be perfectly fine, I'd actually enjoy Sheik better if Sheik did use knives. Knives also work well from the perspective of having a knife/dagger fighting moveset.


I mean, yeah, Knives are relatively common place compared to swords... for COOKING. Fantasy knives/daggers aren't really related to that at all, so I don't really understand the logic of lacking knives (which I'm pretty sure includes Daggers in with that).

....the fact you seem to think combat knives (like the ones Naked Snake use), knife violence/crime, etc. is strictly fantasy is rather alarming.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that Ubisoft went to Nintendo about getting Rayman in the game but were just too late to make the initial roster (like a certain someone with Melee). I don't see why he couldn't be DLC if this were the case.

His trophy being in the game could even be them getting licensing out of the way in case they did add him.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that Ubisoft went to Nintendo about getting Rayman in the game but were just too late to make the initial roster (like a certain someone with Melee). I don't see why he couldn't be DLC if this were the case.

His trophy being in the game could even be them getting licensing out of the way in case they did add him.

I don't buy that at all.
It's more reasonable that the reason Rayman, Globox, and even Barbara have trophies in Smash Wii U is because of this:

Notice the Nintendo logo? Nintendo distributed the game in Japan.

 

[pupNapoleon]

In Smash 4, Snake was seemingly bumped out for no reason

Any reason is really just fanmade speculation, for any character we have not been given a specific statement on.
It makes perfect sense to me that Snake was cut, just as Pichu, Roy, and Lucas, do.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I don't buy that at all.
It's more reasonable that the reason Rayman, Globox, and even Barbara have trophies in Smash Wii U is because of this:

Notice the Nintendo logo? Nintendo distributed the game in Japan.

Would they not still have to get the licensing to put him in an unrelated game?

Who's to say why he's here, but his trophy helps him more than harms him.

 

[pupNapoleon]

In regards to third parties, I made this roster last month:
View attachment 38803

If we did actually have 8 third party characters, does this seem about right?

I will never understand the mindset of having Charizard and Ivysaur, but not Squirtle.

 

[Kenith]

I will never understand the mindset of having Charizard and Ivysaur, but not Squirtle.

Ivysaur is way more interesting conceptually than Squirtle.
But mostly I ran out of room.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Ivysaur is way more interesting conceptually than Squirtle.
But mostly I ran out of room.

I mean... the concept of two of the three of them is alarmingly empty.

 

[JaidynReiman]

....the fact you seem to think combat knives (like the ones Naked Snake use), knife violence/crime, etc. is strictly fantasy is rather alarming.

I never said they were strictly fantasy. I said they could use fantasy knives/daggers.

I don't think we are stuck with the FE characters we have now... at all.
I'm pretty sure Lucina is out next game. If not, FE may just get five characters then.

I never said we were stuck with the FE characters we have now. For any speculative DLC, though, I think we are, and I also don't think we'll get "older" characters in future Smash games. Lyn, for example? I'd love to see her playable, but I don't think she's ever going to happen, because they're going to focus on adding "new" characters instead from newer games in the series.

Robin will stick around for her original moveset and to represent the Avatar/Tactician character. Ike for being a two-game character and extremely popular (in both FE and in Smash), and Marth for being the most iconic character in the series. Lucina could get cut, and we'd likely see a brand new character replace her. Or they could keep Lucina, or turn her into an alt (if they find a way to differentiate characters in the records with slight differences).

Either way, my point still stands; I don't think we'll ever get Lyn unless she appears in a future FE game, which is incredibly unlikely. And even then they'll probably still look her over due to her only using a sword, despite her fighting in a unique sword style.

 

[Kenith]

I mean... the concept of two of the three of them is alarmingly empty.

Well, I am in favor of having Venusaur and Charizard (Red and Green) but nobody else is, so...
I just choose Ivysaur.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Awww what do you have against Shadow?
I do agree with you on Tails. And my dream even though it would NEVER happen would be to just see them alongside Sonic

I always thought they would be the perfect balance of Sonic characters amongst many nintendo characters. Some of these would only happen if SEGA actually helped Sakurai with Smash or something.
..But Shadow will always be an Assist and the rest will always be background elements of Green Hill Zone...

I have absolutely nothing against Shadow as a character, I just don't think he'll ever be in unless Nintendo buys the Sonic franchise, which I HIGHLY doubt will ever happen.

 

[Deleted member]

Would they not still have to get the licensing to put him in an unrelated game?

Yes. Which is why the concept of him being DLC later doesn't make sense.
Nintendo went out of their way to contact Ubisoft to make trophies for the three characters. Not negotiate for a playable fighter.

Same thing with Choice Provisions to get a Commander Video trophy.

As well as Tecmo Koei for a trophy of Mio and Mayu from Fatal Frame II: Crimson Butterfly in Smash Wii U and a trophy of Maya from Spirit Camera in Smash 3DS (Tecmo Koei still owns the Fatal Frame IP and franchise; Nintendo only co-owns the rights to the Fatal Frame IV, V, Project Zero 2: Wii Edition, Spirit Camera, and future installments).


....and OmiyaSoft for a trophy of Goligan from the Culdcept series in Smash 3DS (Nintendo published the 3DS game).

Who's to say why he's here, but his trophy helps him more than harms him.

No. It really doesn't.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Yes. Which is why the concept of him being DLC later doesn't make sense.
Nintendo went out of their way to contact Ubisoft to make trophies for the three characters. Not negotiate for a playable fighter.

And you know that it was Nintendo who went to Ubisoft instead of the other way around?

Even so, if he were to become playable, the licensing is already done, so it wouldn't be much trouble.

 

[Deleted member]

I never said they were strictly fantasy. I said they could use fantasy knives/daggers.

The problem was specifically for Snake and the real-world survival knife, though. No other character in Smash can even potentially wield a knife (the thing on Sheik's back is a ninjato, a "ninja sword" that exists only in fictional media)

Now, there could be the option of the Stun Knife from MGS4, since its design comes from a Shocknife, which is a non-lethal weapon designed to simulate knife wounds in police/military training through electrical shocks (the only difference is that the Stun Knife can actually cut), but without Snake being in Smash 4, well.....

 

[N3ON]

I imagine Ubisoft would be more than willing to include Rayman as a playable character, but having a trophy and being playable aren't the same thing. The contract would need to be renegotiated, Ubisoft would still want say over his implementation, it would still require all the work of implementing a third-party, which is, as we're to understand it, quite a bit of work.

The only thing that's really happened so far is Ubisoft got their foot in the door and Nintendo showed they were willing to put a Rayman trophy in Smash. It's unlikely anything more than that will happen this time around, but if Rayman keeps showing up on Nintendo consoles it'd be fair to say his shot next time would probably be better than most third parties.

 

[Deleted member]

And you know that it was Nintendo who went to Ubisoft instead of the other way around?

In order to make Rayman's trophy, we asked Ubisoft to share their references.

Even so, if he were to become playable, the licensing is already done, so it wouldn't be much trouble.

I may not fully understand how IP law works, but that doesn't sound accurate to me.

^ What N3ON is saying sounds more accurate.

 

[Ura]

I would've loved Lyn as well because she would have been able to use her Quick Draw! But there are so many other reasons because she's one of my most wanted characters! Even though she appeared in awakening, Lucina was first priority, even though she just has marths move set. And lyn would been a way more unique character! Too bad she and Waluigi are just assists and can't make it as DLC..And same would apply to Ridley to not be DLC because now he's a stage boss

It sucks that there are 3DS limitations that made in-game transformations impossible and Young Link would've been a great addition. But...Ive been thinking about it and even if there weren't 3DS limitations, I would say that Young Link is now obsolete for Smash because of how Adult Link from OoT isn't playable anymore. Come to think of it, Young Link in Melee should have had the transformation move set you mentioned. But anyway don't you think it would be a little out of place to have Young Link but no longer be accompanied by Adult Link? This also applies to brawl actually because it also used Zelda characters that are more recent than MM and OoT.

I don't think recency should be the deciding factor for a character to get in. Otherwise, Ike would have gotten the boot in favor of Chrom. But yeah, Lyn using her quick draw would be unique in Smash and her counter would be different from Marth's. I would love to see her in the series someway.

Waluigi was one of my picks to be in the game but a lot of people resented the idea of having him in the game. Really, I just don't think it's fair how people decide someone can't be in Smash because he wasn't relevant, didn't have his own game, or some other crap. If memory serves me correctly, he was pretty badass in Mario Tennis and Mario Party 3. Anyone remember how his eyes would glow all evil looking in MT?

It was only the later games that gave him a comical side that made people hate him. I say gave the guy a chance before you hate on him.

Eh, I disagree with Adult OoT Link having to be in for Young OoT Link to be in. Toon Link was in the roster twice when the Zelda reps were all TP based with the exception of him. I agree with the 3DS limitations being a factor though. If Sakurai is ever going to bring the Ice Climbers in as a Wii U exclusive, YLink should be close to follow.

I'm fine waiting a year for DLC, as long as its guaranteed to happen.

Same. It might take some time but not having it would be a huge miss. It's a big opportunity to keep fans interested in Smash 4.

 

[Kenith]

I would like to believe there will be some sort of bonus when Mewtwo comes around...some new palettes swaps or music would be nice...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ruler Nr.1 I have for Waluigi to appear in Smash: Appear in a game that isn't Mario Party, Tennis, Golf, Kart of Dance Dance Revolution. Wario Ware would be great, and if he'd appear in that, I would support him. Untill then: a big no.