Character Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

It's in no way a given is all am saying. Best is to keep expectations low.

Weird how in Brawl, Wolf was chosen as a priority over Mewtwo, but now it's the other way around. Things like these so give me confidence in Wolf, but am not too sure about anything else yet. Captain Toad, Inkling, Bandana Dee or Rayman seem possible though.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think Wolf and Ice Climbers will most likely return, and either could be next in line for development for DLC after Mewtwo. Seeing as Wolf was low priority in Brawl, he probably wouldn't take much development time. Same with Ice Climbers, as they do have a moveset available. Next up, I wouldn't dare expect any characters with development time as long as Mewtwo. Wolf is a possibility, and since he's a semi-clone that gives room for others. As Lucas, Dixie Kong and Impa.

I'd be 100% satisfied with the roster if they'd include Lucas, Wolf, Dixie Kong and Impa. All these additions bring back a franchise balance in the roster, and would not take as much development time as other characters. In fact... If they had to reduce the originality of Wolf and Lucas and make them more cloney... I'd take that to. Dixie with just an unique Up B recovery compared to Diddy? Yes give me that. Impa as only a stronger but slower Sheik, or as an alt? I'll take that to, gladly.

Asking for too much more would be deluding I think. Even though I do have a small hope that Isaac and King K.Rool could potentially be added as DLC whenever they appear in a new title, cause they are nearly Mewtwo popularity, and they could be unique surprises to 'revive' Smash in a couple of years.

Also, maybe Sakurai does deserve a little rest after Mewtwo is done?

Whose saying they have to immediately jump on more characters? Whose saying Sakurai has to do any of it at all?

Regardless I'm sure Sakurai is getting plenty of rest now. If he's working his ass of on this then that's ridiculous, the game is out he doesn't have to push himself so hard right now.


Ice Climbers? Sorry, incredibly unlikely they're going to happen. If Sakurai can't get them to work on 3DS, as he's mentioned several times, they WILL NOT BE ADDED. He's not going to change them just for the sake of getting them working. And he already tried hard to get them working.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

It's in no way a given is all am saying. Best is to keep expectations low.

Weird how in Brawl, Wolf was chosen as a priority over Mewtwo, but now it's the other way around. Things like these so give me confidence in Wolf, but am not too sure about anything else yet. Captain Toad, Inkling, Bandana Dee or Rayman seem possible though.

And is Rayman's only evidence the trophy a while back? Since I don't see that as much speculation, I don't see him as a playable character..o:
So what way was he brought up differently than other cool characters' trophies?

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, if Rayman was going to be playable, he would have been on the roster and not just a trophy with a PRRRRROMOTION through DLC later.
With the legal hurdles that must be done to get a guest character in (which, before you ask me, I don't entirely know what they are), it makes no sense to negotiate for a mere cameo if the overall plan is to have them join the battle.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly, if Rayman was going to be playable, he would have been on the roster and not just a trophy with a PRRRRROMOTION through DLC later.
With the legal hurdles that must be done to get a guest character in (which, before you ask me, I don't entirely know what they are), it makes no sense to negotiate for a mere cameo if the overall plan is to have them join the battle.

I don't expect any third-party DLC due to said legal hurdles.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Whose saying they have to immediately jump on more characters? Whose saying Sakurai has to do any of it at all?

Regardless I'm sure Sakurai is getting plenty of rest now. If he's working his *** of on this then that's ridiculous, the game is out he doesn't have to push himself so hard right now.


Ice Climbers? Sorry, incredibly unlikely they're going to happen. If Sakurai can't get them to work on 3DS, as he's mentioned several times, they WILL NOT BE ADDED. He's not going to change them just for the sake of getting them working. And he already tried hard to get them working.

We don't know what the issues with the Ice Climbers were; the deadline for Smash4 release was not going to change, and that may very well have been why Sakurai stopped working on them.
There is no time limit now, and that means it is very possible he could still get them to work.

The way I see it, it was a guarantee that he stopped working on them because of time restraints, and needed to allocate those resources working on IC's, to other assets of the game. The fact that he believed he could get them to work on the 3DS, and continued to work on them in the first place, shows me he believes there is a way to solve the issue.

My hope is that he has been working on them concurrently to Mewtwo, and that this is the reason Mewtwo has seen no precise timetable.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't expect any third-party DLC due to said legal hurdles.

Me neither.

Except for the thin possibility I want to hold out on for Snake due to being part of Smash before.
But at the same time, there had to have been some reason he didn't come back.

My theory is that 3 guests were the absolute maximum Sakurai would allow in Smash, and Snake got edged out.

 

[Wintropy]

So I've been thinking. There's a lot of chatter regarding F-Zero getting a new character, since ol' Cap has been filling in for the entire series since day one, and it got me wondering: just who would the best choice of character be?

Now by their very definition, F-Zero characters have a simple job: they drive fast cars in space. But Cap has demonstrated that what matters most of all is the potential they have as characters, canon skills be damned. Save for his Final Smash, Cap never so much as makes a passing reference to his racing heritage, and his entire moveset is totally unique to Smash. I think that presents us with some interesting possibilities for other F-Zero characters - if we're going purely by what they look like and what they could hypothetically do in a combative scenario, then we've got plenty to work with and a lot of exciting potential on our hands.

Samurai Goroh is my humble suggestion. The roster has plenty of swordfighters, sure, but none of them wield a katana or fight in the way that Goroh does - it's even in his name! Now there are plenty of other possibilities for a katana-wielding character: Lyn or Lobster Lord from Fire Emblem, Wandering Samurai from Rhythm Heaven, Sakura Samurai or, yes, even Takamaru. The issue there is that those characters are already from series with a lot of existing characters (Lyn and Lobster Lord), doesn't necessarily represent the motif of their series too well (Wandering Samurai), are inherently obscure and unlikely to feature in a prominent role (Sakura Samurai) or...well, honestly, I've gotten nothin' on Takamaru. But I think he'd play more like Link or Robin, wielding his various ninja tools in addition to his katana. And anyway, why can't there be more than one samurai in the roster?

The point I'm making is, Goroh would kill two birds with one stone: he'd bring a totally new playstyle to the roster and he'd make sure F-Zero's got more exposure than it already does. He's also one of four characters to have been in the series since the beginning, has an established recurring role as Cap's self-proclaimed rival, is notable enough to appear as an Assist Trophy twice and is debatably more unique than most other big and recurring F-Zero characters (with the possible exception of Pico). For a series starved of representation and with a huge cast to choose from, it's not unlikely that an F-Zero character could be on the cards if the series ever returns from its decade-long hiatus and once more shows us its moves. And why not Goroh?

EDIT: @ Xzsmmc got the first like. Was waiting for that, yo~ ;3

 

[Diddy Kong]

Captain Falcon should have some F Zero characters as alts.

And I'd like Isaac as a sort combination of Robin and Shulk.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

I don't know about that... the pain of losing a character in a sequel seems trivial compared to the pain of never having a character ever. At least I can still play the cut vets in Melee/Brawl. They didn't go anywhere. Can I play as Meowth in a past Smash game? No, I cannot so I am still praying for the day he finally gets in Smash. So, it is really difficult for me to feel sympathetic for the people who are crying about cuts. Don't you think I lost some of my favorite characters too? But you don't see me constantly bemoaning over their cuts EVERY. DAY. FOR. OVER. SIX. MONTHS. (August 2014 to February 2015) and being stuck in the Bargaining stage (I consider "hoping for DLC" to be this).

Nintendo will still want to make another Smash game whether Sakurai is involved or not... they would be dumb to let this cash cow die. At this point, Smash is like Mario Kart... one killer app per console... and it doesn't matter who makes the roster choices, people will still hate the roster anyway. I am pretty sure Nintendo and Sakurai know the key to failure is trying to please everyone... and last I checked, Mario Kart 8 and SSB4 still sold millions despite their "awful" rosters.

I guess we think differently, but I really want Waluigi in, but he's not so I say oh well, maybe next time and go enjoy the game, trust me there are some characters I really want in, but if they're not playable, at least I have the characters in I already like. The newcomers I currently want are Sami, Pious, and Sturm. Now only one of those has ever appeared in a smash game in some way shape or form,but if they aren't playable, its not as painful, maybe a little, but not as painful as losing a character(s) you've been playing as for 6 years. I'll go all out supporting them, but not at the cost of abandoning cut veterans, because they shouldn't just be cast aside from existence once they're cut, in fact Ice Climbers and Lucas are at risk of fading into obscurity. I'd honestly say hands down the most painful case of a newcomer not making it in is Ridley, because he was teased, and not made playable for a reason that is the bane of all Ridley fans. We all think differently.

More character DLC can go either way really, I don't think we should be calling people deluded until we see more news regarding character DLC.

Been waiting 2 months for mention of character DLC, and certain threads on Smashboards has literally gone insane over lack of news

Whose saying they have to immediately jump on more characters? Whose saying Sakurai has to do any of it at all?

Regardless I'm sure Sakurai is getting plenty of rest now. If he's working his *** of on this then that's ridiculous, the game is out he doesn't have to push himself so hard right now.


Ice Climbers? Sorry, incredibly unlikely they're going to happen. If Sakurai can't get them to work on 3DS, as he's mentioned several times, they WILL NOT BE ADDED. He's not going to change them just for the sake of getting them working. And he already tried hard to get them working.

Sakurai's done with the main game, so he's probably gotten rest and lost some stress, also he's probably got access to Ergonomics,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_factors_and_ergonomics

 

[Wintropy]

Captain Falcon should have some F Zero characters as alts.

I definitely think Blood Falcon should be a proper alt. There's really no reason whatsoever why he isn't right now.

And while I'm at it, on that note, here's another idle thought I had:

What if certain alts were essentially pseudo-clones sharing the same roster slot? By that I mean particular alts (e.g. Lucina, Dark Pit) would have different stats than the original character, and for the sake of balance, they're treated as custom styles; so in For Glory or battles where customs aren't enabled, the alt just plays the same as the original character. Then custom moves could be used to distinguish them further and let the player decide what kind of moveset they like best, e.g. Pit's got more weapons from Uprising, Marth can wield some of Lucina's skills from Awakening, etc.

This is probably a stupid idea and would cause all sorts of game imbalances and break the whole system, but it's just something that came to mind. Thoughts?

 

[PSIBoy]

I don't know about that... the pain of losing a character in a sequel seems trivial compared to the pain of never having a character ever. At least I can still play the cut vets in Melee/Brawl. They didn't go anywhere. Can I play as Meowth in a past Smash game? No, I cannot so I am still praying for the day he finally gets in Smash. So, it is really difficult for me to feel sympathetic for the people who are crying about cuts. Don't you think I lost some of my favorite characters too? But you don't see me constantly bemoaning over their cuts EVERY. DAY. FOR. OVER. SIX. MONTHS. (August 2014 to February 2015) and being stuck in the Bargaining stage (I consider "hoping for DLC" to be this).

Nintendo will still want to make another Smash game whether Sakurai is involved or not... they would be dumb to let this cash cow die. At this point, Smash is like Mario Kart... one killer app per console... and it doesn't matter who makes the roster choices, people will still hate the roster anyway. I am pretty sure Nintendo and Sakurai know the key to failure is trying to please everyone... and last I checked, Mario Kart 8 and SSB4 still sold millions despite their "awful" rosters.

What if you've been playing the character for six years and he/she is one of your favorite characters in all of video gaming, and then suddenly he's not there. But honestly I was not trying to get into another debate of cut characters, but what triggered my response was really your condescending tone. (I was considering adding another remark here to go further, but you would probably take offense at this and thus I will omit this remark). But what if I said to you during Brawl, when you offhandedly mentioned you wanted DHD in smash, "He's in his own game. If you want to see him, go and play that game instead and save the roster a wated space! He's not going anywhere!", you would have negative emotions, no? And honestly, the blunt approach does not work in this kind of situation. I don't know what you were trying to accomplish with this, but I will say it only just provoked negative feelings in some of us. It didn't solve anything. I'm not asking you to apologize, but I'm asking to think more carefully of what you say please.

Oh yeah, and with a playable character it at least proves they could work in some way and that they can be justified in their inclusion. In every single cut Brawl vet except for Lucas and Wolf, we have a reason to believe they simply were impractical in one way or another. In the case of Lucas, he came from an obscure franchise that is finished. It makes sense that he would be low priority. As for Wolf, the only two reasons I can think of is time constraints and DLC advertisement for when StarFox Wii U comes out. For characters not in, there are a number of justifiable reasons to exclude most them. Few, I can understand people feeling bitter since they are popular and could work, but overall the newcomer has more reasons to exclude them than the vet.

And could Nintendo collapse in the next six years? It could, but unlikely. Could there be a major war in which the government needs to mobilize resources to support the military, therefore cutting back on what civilians get, and therefore companies like Nintendo, or Nintendo is ordered to shift from making video games to weapons? Probably not, but it is a possibility. Point is, there are a number of unforeseen variables that could happen in six years. In one or two there is a significantly less chance of those issues being set upon without being foreseen before those 1-2 years, but yes any one of those issues could happen. And with the roster, yes there is always going to be complainers, but this is 'Nintendo All Star', not '1/2 Mario characters, and the cutting of all small franchises', that in my opinion would be the definition of a terrible roster. And then gameplay either too complicated or too boring? I honestly would not buy Smash 5 if those things happened.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So I've been thinking. There's a lot of chatter regarding F-Zero getting a new character, since ol' Cap has been filling in for the entire series since day one, and it got me wondering: just who would the best choice of character be?

Now by their very definition, F-Zero characters have a simple job: they drive fast cars in space. But Cap has demonstrated that what matters most of all is the potential they have as characters, canon skills be damned. Save for his Final Smash, Cap never so much as makes a passing reference to his racing heritage, and his entire moveset is totally unique to Smash. I think that presents us with some interesting possibilities for other F-Zero characters - if we're going purely by what they look like and what they could hypothetically do in a combative scenario, then we've got plenty to work with and a lot of exciting potential on our hands.

Samurai Goroh is my humble suggestion. The roster has plenty of swordfighters, sure, but none of them wield a katana or fight in the way that Goroh does - it's even in his name! Now there are plenty of other possibilities for a katana-wielding character: Lyn or Lobster Lord from Fire Emblem, Wandering Samurai from Rhythm Heaven, Sakura Samurai or, yes, even Takamaru. The issue there is that those characters are already from series with a lot of existing characters (Lyn and Lobster Lord), doesn't necessarily represent the motif of their series too well (Wandering Samurai), are inherently obscure and unlikely to feature in a prominent role (Sakura Samurai) or...well, honestly, I've gotten nothin' on Takamaru. But I think he'd play more like Link or Robin, wielding his various ninja tools in addition to his katana. And anyway, why can't there be more than one samurai in the roster?

The point I'm making is, Goroh would kill two birds with one stone: he'd bring a totally new playstyle to the roster and he'd make sure F-Zero's got more exposure than it already does. He's also one of four characters to have been in the series since the beginning, has an established recurring role as Cap's self-proclaimed rival, is notable enough to appear as an Assist Trophy twice and is debatably more unique than most other big and recurring F-Zero characters (with the possible exception of Pico). For a series starved of representation and with a huge cast to choose from, it's not unlikely that an F-Zero character could be on the cards if the series ever returns from its decade-long hiatus and once more shows us its moves. And why not Goroh?

EDIT: @ Xzsmmc got the first like. Was waiting for that, yo~ ;3

Black Shadow also has importance in the F-Zero verse, as he is the main antagonist, more of an antagonist than Goroh. We're going to need some more darkness attacks anyway; so far, we only have Ganondorf and White Pikmin using them.

One thing I'd like to see them do is, while Cap represents the melee attacks, Black Shadow could use several projectiles in his moveset. A darkness beam would be pretty cool to see/use.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, yes I like that idea a lot! It gives more variations to characters, and I am already quite a fan of the current customisation system. If they could build up on it like this, and give us DLC custom moves for example and character alts. That would keep the game fresh at least while not changing anything too major.

For example, having Pichu, Pikachu and Raichu share a character slot. We know the differences between Pichu and Pikachu from Melee. And Raichu could play a lot like Pikachu in Smash 64, but somewhat heavier and slower.

Ganondorf having Mage, Fighter and Swordfighter movesets for example to. Minimal changes in stats, but different B moves, weights and the like. Same character overall.

Toon Link and Young Link could share a lot. As well as Impa and Sheik I guess.

And well, there's more to think of course.

 

[Xzsmmc]

It just hit me how odd it would be if Captain Falcon (or Fox) hadn't been around since day 1. I think he may have some support, but there'd be a ton of "All he does is drive/fly!" opposition.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Fox would be a viable option after Adventures and Assault though. And in a way, Fox fights a bit like both of those appearances. Sans the staff in Adventures, Fox kicks his enemies mainly. And in Assault there's plenty of weaponary to make a moveset.

Captain Falcon has nothing though. But he's Smash's mascot for a reason you know.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

What if you've been playing the character for six years and he/she is one of your favorite characters in all of video gaming, and then suddenly he's not there. But honestly I was not trying to get into another debate of cut characters, but what triggered my response was really your condescending tone. (I was considering adding another remark here to go further, but you would probably take offense at this and thus I will omit this remark). But what if I said to you during Brawl, when you offhandedly mentioned you wanted DHD in smash, "He's in his own game. If you want to see him, go and play that game instead and save the roster a wated space! He's not going anywhere!", you would have negative emotions, no? And honestly, the blunt approach does not work in this kind of situation. I don't know what you were trying to accomplish with this, but I will say it only just provoked negative feelings in some of us. It didn't solve anything. I'm not asking you to apologize, but I'm asking to think more carefully of what you say please.

Oh yeah, and with a playable character it at least proves they could work in some way and that they can be justified in their inclusion. In every single cut Brawl vet except for Lucas and Wolf, we have a reason to believe they simply were impractical in one way or another. In the case of Lucas, he came from an obscure franchise that is finished. It makes sense that he would be low priority. As for Wolf, the only two reasons I can think of is time constraints and DLC advertisement for when StarFox Wii U comes out. For characters not in, there are a number of justifiable reasons to exclude most them. Few, I can understand people feeling bitter since they are popular and could work, but overall the newcomer has more reasons to exclude them than the vet.

And could Nintendo collapse in the next six years? It could, but unlikely. Could there be a major war in which the government needs to mobilize resources to support the military, therefore cutting back on what civilians get, and therefore companies like Nintendo, or Nintendo is ordered to shift from making video games to weapons? Probably not, but it is a possibility. Point is, there are a number of unforeseen variables that could happen in six years. In one or two there is a significantly less chance of those issues being set upon without being foreseen before those 1-2 years, but yes any one of those issues could happen. And with the roster, yes there is always going to be complainers, but this is 'Nintendo All Star', not '1/2 Mario characters, and the cutting of all small franchises', that in my opinion would be the definition of a terrible roster. And then gameplay either too complicated or too boring? I honestly would not buy Smash 5 if those things happened.

This is really good. Remember how Sakurai said Brawl was the last one? That wasn't very good for Mewtwo fans, and they had to wait 6 years just to see if Mewtwo would even come back, which he did, but currently is alluding the press, Dr. Mario also got lucky and was brought back, point is there's an opportunity to do DLC, something that wasn't an option in previous smash games, if there's a chance to avoid waiting 6+ years just to see if our character will come back, we'll take it.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

This is really good. Remember how Sakurai said Brawl was the last one? That wasn't very good for Mewtwo fans, and they had to wait 6 years just to see if Mewtwo would even come back, which he did, but currently is alluding the press, Dr. Mario also got lucky and was brought back, point is there's an opportunity to do DLC, something that wasn't an option in previous smash games, if there's a chance to avoid waiting 6+ years just to see if our character will come back, we'll take it.

It's a common misconception but, Sakurai stated that he was making brawl like it was the last game, not that it actually was. Some examples could be like how there was Subspace Emissary and how the graphics gave the characters a more unified and realistic look rather than in ssb4 where the characters' design styles are more distinct from each other and more in-line with their home series.

 

[BKupa666]

Two observations:

--It's tough for me to buy that weapons make characters unique anymore after what happened with Palutena. Before her reveal, everyone was through the roof about how a staff user in Smash would be "so unique." After her reveal? Silence. I can't help but imagine a similar fate would befall, say, Smash's first spear-user, its first katana-user, its first chain-user, etc.

--Condescending to people who may not be happy with the game for whatever reason because "I got what I wanted" is, in a word, obnoxious. Empathize with others' feelings, rather than talking down to them about how their disappointments are lesser than others, or aren't valid to begin with.

 

[Croph]

What some Game Freak employees said in regards to Greninja's inclusion:

Even since the very first Smash Bros., it’s been Mr. Sakurai coming to us with ideas saying, “If we put this Pokemon in this game – in Smash Bros. – we’d be able to show it off in a really cool way and do something really cool with it.” The origin comes from Mr. Sakurai. We typically go with what he wants to do because he’s really thinking of not just showing off the character in a cool way, but making sure it makes sense and works really well from a gameplay perspective. We leave it up to him.

What Sakurai stated some time ago:

I also have to think about if the character pulls the gameplay in a direction I don't want it to go in ... and, of course, whether there are any IP issues to get over and if it'd be too hard to get that particular fighter in the game. Dealing with the Pokemon Company, especially, is quite difficult. They have a lot of details that need to be just right before they'll agree to anything.

So, more leeway now? Because I find these statements a bit contradictory. Any thoughts? sorry if this has already been brought up, I don't go here often.

 

[Ura]

I wouldn't mind waiting a year for DLC characters. Sakurai really gave it his all in this game and I really respect the work he's put in to Smash 4 even with me not liking some things in the game. He deserves a break.

As for me, I have a lengthy wishlist of characters that I want to see as DLC in this game.

Spoiler

1. Roy (Fire Emblem 6): Needs to be really buffed from his Melee counterpart. Have him be like his PM self or just give the tipper of his sword some good knockback/damage).

2. Lyn (Fire Emblem 7): Another solid choice to rep FE. Personally, I would have taken her over Lucina but that's me I guess.

3. Young Link (Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask): As I mentioned before in this thread. He would play like he would in Melee only using his side/down taunts would allow him to use either the Deku, Goron, or Zora masks to transform in their respective forms; each form having a completely unique moveset. And yes, Fierce Deity Final Smash is hype to the max.

4. Isaac (Golden Sun): Should have happened in Brawl IMO. He would be a great fit to the series and really unique as well.

5. Andy (Advance Wars): A lot of people want Sami in but it doesn't really matter which AW character gets in. I just want one AW rep in Smash and I feel that Andy being the poster boy of the series would fit better.

6. Waluigi (Mario Spinoffs): I was in the minority that was rooting for this son of a gun to make it into Smash 4. I don't think it's really fair to say that he can't make it in because he doesn't have his own game or he's annoying to some people (whatever excuse people can think of). He can have a unique moveset that doesn't involve using a tennis racket or something.

7. K.Rool (Donkey Kong Country): He should have precedent over all the Kongs to be DLC because he would be more unique than all of them and IMO more interesting.

8. Ridley (Metroid): Not really all that interested in him TBH but a lot of fans really wanted him in so it just doesn't feel right for him to be excluded. I'm sure size can be worked out somehow (Bowser in SM64 was massive compared to Mario but in Smash their isn't a huge difference between the two).

9. Pichu (Pokemon Gold/Silver): Want him back in for the sake of bringing back all the cut characters. Would be funny if he was still as bad as he was in Melee though.

10. Cut Brawl Characters (Wolf, Ice Climbers, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur Snake): They need to get back someway or another. Especially Snake, he was a great 3rd party character in Brawl.

 

[Arcadenik]

I am beginning to think there is a Smash equivalent to the Sonic cycle...

NEW SMASH GAME ANNOUNCED

• Sakurai voluntarily decides to make a new Smash game
• people get hyped
• character speculation goes into overdrive
• hopes are raised
• fans begin to claim this as the best Smash game ever because Sakurai/Nintendo will listen to the fans this time
• fans warn each other to keep their expectations low so they won't be butthurt with the final roster again like last time

MEDIA AND INFO ON NEW SMASH GAME

• reveal trailer shows veterans and newcomers / people get more hyped
• Sakurai posts daily pics of the day at Japan Time
• veterans/newcomers confirmed / people get even more hyped
• fans make up patterns to predict when the next character reveal might happen / fans get distressed/impatient where there is no character reveal like they predicted
• Pokeballs/Assist Trophies/stage hazards/trophies deconfirm many characters
• graveyard thread get overcrowded with deconfirmed characters / hopes hit the ground

SMASH GAME LEAKED AND RELEASED

• people are in denial and grasp straws to debunk the final roster
• people get angry over roster choices and claim Sakurai/Nintendo don't listen to the fans and claim that the previous game's roster was way better than the new game's roster
• people try to bargain that the current roster wouldn't be so bad if there were DLC with the cut vets
• people get sorrowful that their cut characters might never come back in the next game (or never get in Smash at all)
• people accept the final roster with or without DLC and continue speculating for the next game
• Sakurai complains that this game almost killed him and he isn't sure he wants to make another Smash game

 

[JaidynReiman]

I am beginning to think there is a Smash equivalent to the Sonic cycle...

NEW SMASH GAME ANNOUNCED

• Sakurai voluntarily decides to make a new Smash game
• people get hyped
• character speculation goes into overdrive
• hopes are raised
• fans begin to claim this as the best Smash game ever because Sakurai/Nintendo will listen to the fans this time
• fans warn each other to keep their expectations low so they won't be butthurt with the final roster again like last time

MEDIA AND INFO ON NEW SMASH GAME

• reveal trailer shows veterans and newcomers / people get more hyped
• Sakurai posts daily pics of the day at Japan Time
• veterans/newcomers confirmed / people get even more hyped
• fans make up patterns to predict when the next character reveal might happen / fans get distressed/impatient where there is no character reveal like they predicted
• Pokeballs/Assist Trophies/stage hazards/trophies deconfirm many characters
• graveyard thread get overcrowded with deconfirmed characters / hopes hit the ground

SMASH GAME LEAKED AND RELEASED

• people are in denial and grasp straws to debunk the final roster
• people get angry over roster choices and claim Sakurai/Nintendo don't listen to the fans and claim that the previous game's roster was way better than the new game's roster
• people try to bargain that the current roster wouldn't be so bad if there were DLC with the cut vets
• people get sorrowful that their cut characters might never come back in the next game (or never get in Smash at all)
• people accept the final roster with or without DLC and continue speculating for the next game
• Sakurai complains that this game almost killed him and he isn't sure he wants to make another Smash game

That's not possible considering we've only had Brawl, and Nintendo has NOT HAD A DLC POLICY UNTIL WII U/3DS!!!

This is the most IMPORTANT aspect here. DLC changes everything. NO ONE speculated DLC for Brawl because Nintendo DID NOT DO DLC. Right now Nintendo is doing DLC for quite a lot of their games.


Btw, the Sonic cycle is pure BS as well, so yeah, there is a Smash cycle. In that there isn't one.

What some Game Freak employees said in regards to Greninja's inclusion:



What Sakurai stated some time ago:



So, more leeway now? Because I find these statements a bit contradictory. Any thoughts? sorry if this has already been brought up, I don't go here often.

This is definitely contradictory and makes no sense.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's not possible considering we've only had Brawl, and Nintendo has NOT HAD A DLC POLICY UNTIL WII U/3DS!!!

This is the most IMPORTANT aspect here. DLC changes everything. NO ONE speculated DLC for Brawl because Nintendo DID NOT DO DLC. Right now Nintendo is doing DLC for quite a lot of their games.


Btw, the Sonic cycle is pure BS as well, so yeah, there is a Smash cycle. In that there isn't one.



This is definitely contradictory and makes no sense.

Here is the thing... DLC did exist back in 2008 even though it was not available to Brawl or any Nintendo games at the time. I remember seeing people wanting Brawl DLC with the Forbidden Seven.

 

[Croph]

This is definitely contradictory and makes no sense.

Yeah, I even bolded the parts that's making my head hurt. I guess I'm still trying to make sense of everything, because I'm wondering if the Pokemon Company influenced Sakurai in choosing Greninja in particular. But judging on GF's recent statement, well, idk.

 

[BKupa666]

Does the Pokemon Company have a history of saying contradictory things in interviews? If not, then we have a pretty good idea that they're the ones being truthful in this case. And also fantastic fodder for anyone trying to argue that Sakurai interviews are never definitive proof of anything.

EDIT: Disregard. Game Freak is a separate beast pocket monster.

 

[Deleted member]

What some Game Freak employees said in regards to Greninja's inclusion:



What Sakurai stated some time ago:



So, more leeway now? Because I find these statements a bit contradictory. Any thoughts? sorry if this has already been brought up, I don't go here often.

Game Freak =/= The Pokémon Company.

Simply put, Game Freak just leaves judgment up to Sakurai. The Pokémon Company is particular about having certain aspects be to their specifications.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Game Freak =/= The Pokémon Company.

Simply put, Game Freak just leaves judgment up to Sakurai. The Pokémon Company is particular about having certain aspects be to their specifications.

^This, no matter how much freedom Game Freak gives Sakurai, it's ultimately up to the Pokémon Company how the character will appear, and apparently they're REAL picky.

 

[Croph]

Game Freak =/= The Pokémon Company

Yeah, I know that.

But the statements are still contradictory. What does this mean? And why did GF explain things in that interview then? I don't think they could speak on the PC's behave. So, can we say the PC is picky in regards to Pokemon content, but GF's typically fine with whatever Sakurai proposes?

Oh damn, I had like a brain fart before. Now I really want to know what the Pokemon Company has to say about Greninja.

 

[Arcadenik]

Game Freak =/= The Pokémon Company.

Simply put, Game Freak just leaves judgment up to Sakurai. The Pokémon Company is particular about having certain aspects be to their specifications.

I am thinking that Game Freak are the ones who make the Pokemon games... while the Pokemon Company are the ones who manage the marketing, the media, and how Pokemon are portrayed. Did I get that right?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I know that.

But the statements are still contradictory. What does this mean? And why did GF explain things in that interview then? I don't think they could speak on the PC's behave. So, can we say the PC is picky in regards to Pokemon content, but GF's typically fine with whatever Sakurai proposes?

Out of context, the statements are contradictory.
In context (as in, two separate parties) they aren't. One side has their own method and thought process, the other side has theirs.

Game Freak isn't speaking on Pokémon Company's behalf; they're speaking on theirs. There are multiple factors and parties when it comes to the Pokémon franchise.
As for why Game Freak is giving their say, they were directly asked about it in an interview.

So yes, we can say that Game Freak is fine with what Sakurai proposes while Pokémon Company is nitpicky on details (not exactly the content itself) of the Pokémon characters.
Basically, Sakurai can pretty much make any decision he wants as long as Pokémon Company approves of it. The instant they see something they don't like, Sakurai has to alter it to their liking.

I am thinking that Game Freak are the ones who make the Pokemon games... while the Pokemon Company are the ones who manage the marketing, the media, and how Pokemon are portrayed. Did I get that right?

I would say that's correct, but they're probably someone out there that's itching to tell me that it's wrong.

 

[Croph]

I am thinking that Game Freak are the ones who make the Pokemon games... while the Pokemon Company are the ones who manage the marketing, the media, and how Pokemon are portrayed. Did I get that right?

Basically that's what I always thought as well.

@GoldenYuiitusin & everyone else, thanks for clearing things up.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Here is the thing... DLC did exist back in 2008 even though it was not available to Brawl or any Nintendo games at the time. I remember seeing people wanting Brawl DLC with the Forbidden Seven.

Of course it existed. But it was never something Nintendo did whatsoever in any way, shape, or form. Nintendo did not do DLC until the past few years, and with this game, they are ACTIVELY showing that they are willing to consider DLC and at least patches. They haven't talked about DLC beyond Mewtwo yet except that they were considering it. However, recently they've been extremely active with DLC, and Smash is their biggest title. This is a totally different circumstance from Brawl.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I definitely think Blood Falcon should be a proper alt. There's really no reason whatsoever why he isn't right now.

And while I'm at it, on that note, here's another idle thought I had:

What if certain alts were essentially pseudo-clones sharing the same roster slot? By that I mean particular alts (e.g. Lucina, Dark Pit) would have different stats than the original character, and for the sake of balance, they're treated as custom styles; so in For Glory or battles where customs aren't enabled, the alt just plays the same as the original character. Then custom moves could be used to distinguish them further and let the player decide what kind of moveset they like best, e.g. Pit's got more weapons from Uprising, Marth can wield some of Lucina's skills from Awakening, etc.

This is probably a stupid idea and would cause all sorts of game imbalances and break the whole system, but it's just something that came to mind. Thoughts?

Anything that gets Lucina, Dark Pit, and Dr Mario off the CSS is a blessing.
Others may find it trivial that the entire aesthetic of the numerical roster is completely tarnished off-equilibrium by their inclusion, but I would love to have them off and make the counting roster representational of the game itself.
Having a new division of character accessible through the alt screen, such as the way you mentioned or another, is a winning idea. They need to be different? Then make them different in results tallies. Doesn't mean they need their own space- if a 'General Pit player' wants to distinguish which he is choosing, he can via a button press. No reason they need to pretend to be two actually different characters. That makes it seem as if Pit and Dark Pit are as different as Pit and Pikachu. Dishonorable, indeed.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Anything that gets Lucina, Dark Pit, and Dr Mario off the CSS is a blessing.
Others may find it trivial that the entire aesthetic of the numerical roster is completely tarnished off-equilibrium by their inclusion, but I would love to have them off and make the counting roster representational of the game itself.
Having a new division of character accessible through the alt screen, such as the way you mentioned or another, is a winning idea. They need to be different? Then make them different in results tallies. Doesn't mean they need their own space- if a 'General Pit player' wants to distinguish which he is choosing, he can via a button press. No reason they need to pretend to be two actually different characters. That makes it seem as if Pit and Dark Pit are as different as Pit and Pikachu. Dishonorable, indeed.

I'll give them Dr. Mario, he's significantly different. But this? Yeah, I agree. Make it a toggle instead, just make it a different option from characters who are just full reskins.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

I wouldn't mind waiting a year for DLC characters. Sakurai really gave it his all in this game and I really respect the work he's put in to Smash 4 even with me not liking some things in the game. He deserves a break.

As for me, I have a lengthy wishlist of characters that I want to see as DLC in this game.

Spoiler

2. Lyn (Fire Emblem 7): Another solid choice to rep FE. Personally, I would have taken her over Lucina but that's me I guess.

3. Young Link (Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask): As I mentioned before in this thread. He would play like he would in Melee only using his side/down taunts would allow him to use either the Deku, Goron, or Zora masks to transform in their respective forms; each form having a completely unique moveset. And yes, Fierce Deity Final Smash is hype to the max.

6. Waluigi (Mario Spinoffs): I was in the minority that was rooting for this son of a gun to make it into Smash 4. I don't think it's really fair to say that he can't make it in because he doesn't have his own game or he's annoying to some people (whatever excuse people can think of). He can have a unique moveset that doesn't involve using a tennis racket or something.

8. Ridley (Metroid): Not really all that interested in him TBH but a lot of fans really wanted him in so it just doesn't feel right for him to be excluded. I'm sure size can be worked out somehow (Bowser in SM64 was massive compared to Mario but in Smash their isn't a huge difference between the two).

I would've loved Lyn as well because she would have been able to use her Quick Draw! But there are so many other reasons because she's one of my most wanted characters! Even though she appeared in awakening, Lucina was first priority, even though she just has marths move set. And lyn would been a way more unique character! Too bad she and Waluigi are just assists and can't make it as DLC..And same would apply to Ridley to not be DLC because now he's a stage boss

It sucks that there are 3DS limitations that made in-game transformations impossible and Young Link would've been a great addition. But...Ive been thinking about it and even if there weren't 3DS limitations, I would say that Young Link is now obsolete for Smash because of how Adult Link from OoT isn't playable anymore. Come to think of it, Young Link in Melee should have had the transformation move set you mentioned. But anyway don't you think it would be a little out of place to have Young Link but no longer be accompanied by Adult Link? This also applies to brawl actually because it also used Zelda characters that are more recent than MM and OoT.

 

[pupNapoleon]

How many Fire Emblem fans there are who still think that DLC for Smash4 would include another character for them is really distressing. I miss the days when people thought 3 was unheard of.

I'll give them Dr. Mario, he's significantly different. But this? Yeah, I agree. Make it a toggle instead, just make it a different option from characters who are just full reskins.

He has a different special, and different stats. Otherwise, how is he different?

 

[JaidynReiman]

How many Fire Emblem fans there are who still think that DLC for Smash4 would include another character for them is really distressing. I miss the days when people thought 3 was unheard of.


He has a different special, and different stats. Otherwise, how is he different?

Sorry, what I'm saying is, he's different enough compared to the others that he should maintain his own slot. The other two are virtually identical, even the "new" moves they haven't aren't that different.


As for FE... yeah, there's no way in any shape or form we'll get a new FE character as DLC. I am a huge FE fan and I understand that. I figured 4 was a long shot, and we only got a fourth as an almost direct clone who can hardly be called a separate character.

I would've loved Lyn as well because she would have been able to use her Quick Draw! But there are so many other reasons because she's one of my most wanted characters! Even though she appeared in awakening, Lucina was first priority, even though she just has marths move set. And lyn would been a way more unique character! Too bad she and Waluigi are just assists and can't make it as DLC..And same would apply to Ridley to not be DLC because now he's a stage boss

It sucks that there are 3DS limitations that made in-game transformations impossible and Young Link would've been a great addition. But...Ive been thinking about it and even if there weren't 3DS limitations, I would say that Young Link is now obsolete for Smash because of how Adult Link from OoT isn't playable anymore. Come to think of it, Young Link in Melee should have had the transformation move set you mentioned. But anyway don't you think it would be a little out of place to have Young Link but no longer be accompanied by Adult Link? This also applies to brawl actually because it also used Zelda characters that are more recent than MM and OoT.

I think Lyn would've been a great character, but I'm set in my mind now that only new Fire Emblem characters will ever get added as playable characters in Smash. Which sucks because Lyn would represent the Myrmidon class very well.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

I think Lyn would've been a great character, but I'm set in my mind now that only new Fire Emblem characters will ever get added as playable characters in Smash. Which sucks because Lyn would represent the Myrmidon class very well.

I knowwwwwwwwwwww.

And
I'm definitely one of those people who wanted Roy and Lyn the moment I knew that there was going to be an new smash. Even if I kinda knew later on it wouldn't happen and that they wouldn't be chosen over characters Lucina and Robin, or other potential newer FE characters like Micaiah or Tiki which, I would've wanted too but, you get my point XD

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

I wouldn't mind waiting a year for DLC characters. Sakurai really gave it his all in this game and I really respect the work he's put in to Smash 4 even with me not liking some things in the game. He deserves a break.

As for me, I have a lengthy wishlist of characters that I want to see as DLC in this game.

Spoiler

1. Roy (Fire Emblem 6): Needs to be really buffed from his Melee counterpart. Have him be like his PM self or just give the tipper of his sword some good knockback/damage).

2. Lyn (Fire Emblem 7): Another solid choice to rep FE. Personally, I would have taken her over Lucina but that's me I guess.

3. Young Link (Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask): As I mentioned before in this thread. He would play like he would in Melee only using his side/down taunts would allow him to use either the Deku, Goron, or Zora masks to transform in their respective forms; each form having a completely unique moveset. And yes, Fierce Deity Final Smash is hype to the max.

4. Isaac (Golden Sun): Should have happened in Brawl IMO. He would be a great fit to the series and really unique as well.

5. Andy (Advance Wars): A lot of people want Sami in but it doesn't really matter which AW character gets in. I just want one AW rep in Smash and I feel that Andy being the poster boy of the series would fit better.

6. Waluigi (Mario Spinoffs): I was in the minority that was rooting for this son of a gun to make it into Smash 4. I don't think it's really fair to say that he can't make it in because he doesn't have his own game or he's annoying to some people (whatever excuse people can think of). He can have a unique moveset that doesn't involve using a tennis racket or something.

7. K.Rool (Donkey Kong Country): He should have precedent over all the Kongs to be DLC because he would be more unique than all of them and IMO more interesting.

8. Ridley (Metroid): Not really all that interested in him TBH but a lot of fans really wanted him in so it just doesn't feel right for him to be excluded. I'm sure size can be worked out somehow (Bowser in SM64 was massive compared to Mario but in Smash their isn't a huge difference between the two).

9. Pichu (Pokemon Gold/Silver): Want him back in for the sake of bringing back all the cut characters. Would be funny if he was still as bad as he was in Melee though.

10. Cut Brawl Characters (Wolf, Ice Climbers, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur Snake): They need to get back someway or another. Especially Snake, he was a great 3rd party character in Brawl.

I'm fine waiting a year for DLC, as long as its guaranteed to happen.