Character Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

That's a nice spam ya got there.
It would be a shame if someone were to report it.

Don't be a jerk.

Really.

 

[SuperBrawler]

So I was thinking of cut characters, and I came across a locked thread made by @SMX.
It was about what characters would be locked, and it was locked due to it being absolutely pointless.

Actually cut threads aren't allowed.

Somewhat. I just need people to know that the list I posted isn't characters I want to get cut but rather characters that may get cut from SSB4. If they all end up returning, that would be just fine.

Yes I think I was the only one who realized that .

 

[pikachugamer21]

Somewhat. I just need people to know that the list I posted isn't characters I want to get cut but rather characters that may get cut from SSB4. If they all end up returning, that would be just fine.

No harm done dude can't be any worse then people suggesting Meta Knight to be cut

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Actually cut threads aren't allowed.

Amen

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Don't be a jerk.

Really.

What?
He posted the name of a character that wasn't even relevant to the discussion.
TWICE!

If he wanted to propose the discussion of Duck Hunt Dog, he should have said, "So what does everyone think of a Duck Hunt Dog?"
That would still be irrelevant, but at least it would sound less like spam, and not just saying the name twice.

Going by all of times I've receive warnings for spam, this the definition of the term.

 

[Opossum]

Please do not make a public display of this, Bidoof. Take it up in a PM if you want to discuss this, as it is off-topic.

 

[SuperBrawler]

What?
He posted the name of a character that wasn't even relevant to the discussion.
TWICE!

If he wanted to propose the discussion of Duck Hunt Dog, he should have said, "So what does everyone think of a Duck Hunt Dog?"
That would still be irrelevant, but at least it would sound less like spam, and not just saying the name twice.

Going by all of times I've receive warnings for spam, this the definition of the term.

He is new. Try just telling him he shouldn't do that instead of making a joke about it.

 

[Curious Villager]

Guys don't derail the thread please. If you have any issues, discuss it with us privately through PM.

 

[Kenith]

You know, guys, something I've noticed. A lot of people are requesting Banjo-Kazooie for SSB4.

Has anyone ever noticed that if Nintendo still owned Rare Banjo-Kazooie would've most certainly made it by now?

 

[?????????????]

You know, guys, something I've noticed. A lot of people are requesting Banjo-Kazooie for SSB4.

Has anyone ever noticed that if Nintendo still owned Rare Banjo-Kazooie would've most certainly made it by now?

When Melee was being released, I thought he might have been included.

 

[SuperBrawler]

You know, guys, something I've noticed. A lot of people are requesting Banjo-Kazooie for SSB4.

Has anyone ever noticed that if Nintendo still owned Rare Banjo-Kazooie would've most certainly made it by now?

He would've been in 64 probably, then in Melee comes Gruntilda and in Brawl we get Mumbo.

 

[Sehnsucht]

You know, guys, something I've noticed. A lot of people are requesting Banjo-Kazooie for SSB4.

Has anyone ever noticed that if Nintendo still owned Rare Banjo-Kazooie would've most certainly made it by now?

I made a moveset for BK awhile back out of boredom. Where might one post movesets and etc. for implausible or impossible characters?

 

[?????????????]

I made a moveset for BK awhile back out of boredom. Where might one post movesets and etc. for implausible or impossible characters?

Banjo and Kazooie have their own thread. Technically, they're not impossible. Grunty's Revenge and Banjo-Pilot were released on Nintendo systems years after the franchise was sold to Microsoft.

 

[Broodlaw]

Granted if they still owned Rareware then we would of had a lot more Banjo, especially in Smash, just think for a final smash he could summon all of the Jinjos to form the Jinjonator, god that would be awesome

 

[JamesDNaux]

You know, guys, something I've noticed. A lot of people are requesting Banjo-Kazooie for SSB4.

Has anyone ever noticed that if Nintendo still owned Rare Banjo-Kazooie would've most certainly made it by now?

Banjo should have been in the first game. He most certainly would have made it into Melee if Rare wasn't sold off.
Hell, we'd probably have Mumbo and Grunty by now too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Banjo and Kazooie would have been up there with Diddy Kong and Wario in Brawl as one of the most requested characters.

 

[?????????????]

And think of the music that would have come from having Banjo in Brawl!

Actually, if RARE was still owned by Nintendo, I would have advocated for Conker the Squirrel too. Eh? Anybody?

 

[Kenith]

Banjo should have been in the first game. He most certainly would have made it into Melee if Rare wasn't sold off.
Hell, we'd probably have Mumbo and Grunty by now too.

It's a really sad thought. I will never understand why they sold them off...

His chances are ziltch now.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

If Rare wasn't sold, we would have plenty of Rare reps, including Conker, many from the Banjo Kazooie franchise, and even series that would have been created if they weren't bought off.

 

[Peekolow]

Sorry. My apologies.

 

[SuperBrawler]

And what about the games we would have had? Banjo 4, anyone?

 

[Kenith]

If Rare wasn't sold, we would have plenty of Rare reps, including Conker, many from the Banjo Kazooie franchise, and even series that would have been created if they weren't bought off.

Rare:
- Banjo Kazooie
- Conker
- Joanna Dark

 

[?????????????]

Ooh, I forgot about Joanna Dark. That would have been awesome too.

Joanna vs Snake? Dream match there.

 

[JamesDNaux]

And think of the music that would have come from having Banjo in Brawl!

Actually, if RARE was still owned by Nintendo, I would have advocated for Conker the Squirrel too. Eh? Anybody?

Banjo, Mumbo, Grunty, Conker, Juno, Vela, Lupus, one of the Battle Toads, Kameo (originally planned to be a GameCube title), hell throw in Sabrewulf.

Why has there not been some giant mass of fans throwing everything they've got into getting Nintendo to buy back all these IPs, if not Rare themselves?
Such a depressing thought.

 

[Kenith]

Hell, maybe we can get Banjo now.
"Can Banjo-Kazooie appear in the new Super Smash Bros. 4?
"Sure, why not? It's not like we'll ever use him anyway!"

 

[Mega Bidoof]

You know, guys, something I've noticed. A lot of people are requesting Banjo-Kazooie for SSB4.

Has anyone ever noticed that if Nintendo still owned Rare Banjo-Kazooie would've most certainly made it by now?

Yeah, that's kinda obvious, so cheering there unique Moveset potential.
But sadly, they are with Microsoft now, and do the unspeakable.


Speaking of unlikely characters being requested, I've been thinking about Goku.
Think of all the casuals that request him on Miiverse. Sakurai HAS TO be aware if all of this.
Each casual requesting Goku basically means another sale for the game.
Adding Goku would actually be a good business decision, now that I am thinking about I.

EDIT: I think I should just make the fact clear that I DON'T WANT GOKU IN SMASH! I DON'T THINK HE SHOULD BE IN!!!!!

 

[SuperBrawler]

Banjo, Mumbo, Grunty, Conker, Juno, Vela, Lupus, one of the Battle Toads, Kameo (originally planned to be a GameCube title), hell throw in Sabrewulf.

Why has there not been some giant mass of fans throwing everything they've got into getting Nintendo to buy back all these IPs, if not Rare themselves?
Such a depressing thought.

Battle Toads for Melee.

It's a really sad thought. I will never understand why they sold them off...

His chances are ziltch now.

It really sucks, huh? Stupid M$.

Sorry. My apologies.

Nah, it's good.

 

[foolssigma]

There are always rumors of Nintendo trying to buy Rare's IPs. Hopefully it one day comes true and an actual Banjo-Threeie is released. Funny how Rare's characters are the perfect fit for Smash and in no way suit Microsoft's style

 

[samoxnar]

It's quite interesting that Gruntilda's Revenge came out on the GBA after Microsoft acquired Rare, and it's the closest thing we'll probably ever get to a Banjo-Threeie. I think Banjo and Kazooie fit perfectly in smash bros., and would love to see them. It's difficult to to say if they were still owned by Nintendo if they would have ever made it, as who knows if they would even had ever had an actual sequel if they were not purchased by Microsoft. They may never had even gotten Gruntilda's Revenge or say an unmentionable sequel, making them completely irrelevant even if they were still owned by Nintendo. The world will never know, but hell I wouldn't mind having Microsoft's name at the bottom of the copyrights if it mean getting Banjo and Kazooie playable, yet alas they would never agree to that.

 

[N3ON]

I disagree. Little Mac most likely would not have gotten into Smash had Punch-Out not already been a classic franchise.

[citation needed]

All in F-Zero's favor. It is a classic and popular series. Nintendo also clearly cares about how much of an impact F-Zero has because they constantly reference it. The only reason they haven't made a new game is because they can't think of anything innovative.

And you believe that? If it sold, they'd make a new game. Innovation hasn't prevented NSMB after NSMB. It comes down to sales, Nintendo is a business.
They don't even need to be the developers of it, they could give it to Sega again.

Until you prove otherwise classic doesn't matter, and its average audience size per game is smaller than any other series on the roster (except maybe Mother). That's not exactly the height of popularity, especially since none of its characters have a large amount of popularity. If it was truly popular, Nintendo would've touched it in the last ten years.

Like I said, Punch-Out has been absent for 5 years.

And F-Zero double that. That wasn't my point though, my point was that classic means nothing for non-retro series. You're welcome to show me proof that states otherwise. Not your suspicions.

Well...

Spoiler

clas·sic
ˈklasik/
adjective
adjective: classic

1. 1.
   judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.
   "a classic novel"
   synonyms:definitive, authoritative;More
   outstanding, first-rate, first-class, best, finest, excellent, superior, masterly
   "the classic work on the subject"
   • (of a garment or design) of a simple elegant style not greatly subject to changes in fashion.
     "this classic navy blazer"
     synonyms:simple, elegant, understated;More
     traditional, timeless, ageless
     "a classic style"
   • remarkably and instructively typical.
     "Hamlet is the classic example of a tragedy"
     synonyms:typical, archetypal, quintessential, vintage;More
     model, representative, perfect, prime, textbook
     "a classic example of Norman design"
     antonyms:atypical

noun
noun: classic; plural noun: classics; plural noun: Classics; noun: Classic
1.
a work of art of recognized and established value.
"his books have become classics"
synonyms:definitive example, model, epitome, paradigm, exemplar;More

You'll have to elaborate, I still don't understand.

I'm stating reasons why F-Zero is popular.

If you want a true measure of popularity, look at the reception of F-Zero games commercially, not people on the internet demanding it, they make up a minuscule percentage of things.

I'm sorry, but those are both lies.

If being classic makes something a major Nintendo series, then Balloon Fight, StarTropics, and any number of one-shot retro games are also major Nintendo series.

But please tell me what makes F-Zero so major? Not its commercial reception. Not its number of games.

And you think that will ultimately define priority?

Considering they are made up of major characters from larger series or protagonists, yes. It's not the only thing that matters, but popularity matters.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai said he was based on being a racer.

[citation needed]

And you base this on......

Well one has a sword, and the other doesn't. Swords are used for fighting. Ergo, if one fights with a sword, and one doesn't, those are different fighting styles.

You might say Goroh doesn't need to use his sword. But look at his AT. It's pretty clear what Sakurai thinks of his fighting style.

Body structure eh?

I suppose having a bigger horizontal size of your torso ultimately makes you more different than having a bigger vertical size of your torso...along with a bigger head and stubbier arms.

We can sit here and analyze until the cows come home, but I guarantee you that I will find more similarities in their body structures than in Pikachu & Pichu's.

But Pikachu and Pichu have a similar fighting style. I never said you need both. Perhaps don't split my sentences up and you won't lose sight of what's being said.

These are the 2 factors
Factor A: The character shares significant similarities in appearance, role, and body structure. (The key word being "significant" and not "exact"}

Appearance, role, and body structure? You just gave me an example of a character who doesn't have the same body structure as the original one. TL doesn't share Link's body structure. Wolf doesn't share Fox's role.

Factor B: The character is originally capable of performing a significant amount of abilities as the same character so long as they satisfy Factor A. (The only known exception to this is Ganondorf. An exception made at a time of desperate clone phone ins.)

If Sakurai was so desperate he could've included Goroh who meets Factor A (according to you) instead, yes?

You do not need the exact same body structure. You need similar body structure. Samurai Goroh is roughly similar to Captain Falcon's body structure. The exception being that he is wider. But, again Pichu is wider AND shorter.

I know. But not only does Goroh not share Captain Falcon's body structure, he doesn't share his fighting style either. Pichu shares Pikachu's.

When I said Sakurai thinks a character should be a clone, it is under the rational assumption that said character is similar. Sakurai does state the criteria that Toon Link MUST share moves with Adult Link.

Characters can share moves and not be clones.

The relevance?

Sakurai's first instinct is to pass on characters similar to another, so obviously he thought no characters should be clones. He thought they should be excluded, and only reconsidered when he decided to pad the roster.

Nothing in common with the fighting style? As far as I know neither characters have ever fought outside of Super Smash Brothers so Samurai Goroh's fighting style would logically be the same as Captain Falcon if he was a character.

Goroh fights IN SMASH BROS and it's different from how Captain Falcon fights.

And there's nothing logical about saying a character with a sword, and who uses a sword in Smash, would fight without a sword simply because he's from the same series as a character who doesn't use a sword. Your argument is getting weaker.

Sakurai ultimately decided who the best fit for a Fox clone was. And it wasn't Wolf.

Yes it was. Wolf was actually too similar, so he went with Falco.

I'm still not getting your argument. You're saying that because he came across Ganondorf first and ultimately decided he wanted that character over Goroh that Goroh never crossed his mind? I mean the situation was that Ganondorf got in because of his similar body type. Not that he was the only choice of the many characters who had a similar body type. For all you know it was planned to be Goroh before he decided Ganondorf would work better.

Sakurai mentioned that Ganondorf was "lucky" to get in and that he only got in because he had a similar body style to Captain Falcon and he couldn't think of any more viable clones.

I'm not saying he came across Ganondorf first. I'm saying Ganondorf got in because Sakurai couldn't think of any other feasible clones. The thinking came first. Only after Sakurai couldn't come up with any additional ideas for feasible clones did he implement Ganondorf. If Sakurai could've come up with someone else, going by the statement, that character would've been the one added instead. Therefore, unless you mean to suggest Sakurai forgot about Goroh, since Ganondorf was only added in the absence of any other feasible characters, Goroh obviously wasn't a feasible clone in Sakurai's mind. Ganondorf wasn't chosen because he was a better fit for Captain Falcon. He was chosen because, for Sakurai, he was the only fit for Captain Falcon.

Notice Captain Falcon's name is not before the word "clones". He just couldn't think of any. Wolf was in the opening and he didn't think of him.

Yes he did, Wolf was considered before Falco.

 

[pikachugamer21]

Sorry. My apologies.

you are forgiven

 

[Peekolow]

It's always my fault. Every new community I join, sorry bidoof.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

There are always rumors of Nintendo trying to buy Rare's IPs. Hopefully it one day comes true and an actual Banjo-Threeie is released. Funny how Rare's characters are the perfect fit for Smash and in no way suit Microsoft's style

Hmmmm......

Well Nintendo did say that there are considering mergers and acquisitions.
The pieces are finally coming together. The stars are aligning.
Soon.
Soon.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Banjo, Mumbo, Grunty, Conker, Juno, Vela, Lupus, one of the Battle Toads, Kameo (originally planned to be a GameCube title), hell throw in Sabrewulf.

Why has there not been some giant mass of fans throwing everything they've got into getting Nintendo to buy back all these IPs, if not Rare themselves?
Such a depressing thought.

A Smash-style game featuring Rareware characters would be sweet. Dunno if Killer Instinct characters would be included, since they come from a fighting game themselves, but one or two could be thrown in for good measure.

As an aside, the Jet Force Gemini OST is probably my favourite N64 soundtrack (and for most games ever). And JFG is one of my favourite titles ever too, evidently.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Banjo-Kazooie not being in Smash as well not being on a Nintendo system was a travesty. That and Perfect Dark. Back before Melee, Joanna was my most wanted newcomer during the Melee hype.

 

[?????????????]

Hell, maybe we can get Banjo now.
"Can Banjo-Kazooie appear in the new Super Smash Bros. 4?
"Sure, why not? It's not like we'll ever use him anyway!"

If only...

I actually imagine that RARE themselves would be perfectly happy to add Banjo in SSB4, but honestly, I don't see Nintendo even asking unless there was...well, to be blunt, a possibility they could get Banjo-Kazooie games. But seeing as Grunty's Revenge was released on GBA after the franchise was sold to Microsoft, maybe that's not impossible.

 

[foolssigma]

The fact that basically everyone is a fan of these characters and wants to see more of them both inside and outside of smash only further proves what a travesty their loss was.

I used to hate saving all of those creatures in JFG when I was younger. They would always get killed lol

 

[pikachugamer21]

It's always my fault. Every new community I join, sorry bidoof.

cheer up man im kinda new here too

 

[Peekolow]

A Smash-style game featuring Rareware characters would be sweet. Dunno if Killer Instinct characters would be included, since they come from a fighting game themselves, but one or two could be thrown in for good measure.

As an aside, the Jet Force Gemini OST is probably my favourite N64 soundtrack (and for most games ever). And JFG is one of my favourite titles ever too, evidently.

nah, sabrewulf wouldn't make it he is a too of a blood thirsty character. banjo joanna mumbo grunty are perfect, but what about james bond?

 

[JamesDNaux]

A Smash-style game featuring Rareware characters would be sweet. Dunno if Killer Instinct characters would be included, since they come from a fighting game themselves, but one or two could be thrown in for good measure.

As an aside, the Jet Force Gemini OST is probably my favourite N64 soundtrack (and for most games ever). And JFG is one of my favourite titles ever too, evidently.

The reason I picked Sabrewulf is because he did not originate in Killer Instinct, the KI character is based off of one of Rare's old, old games Sabre Wulf. So technically, he would be eligible, even if in his KI form. Spinal all the way for KI rep.

It's a shame that Jet Force Gemini never got a sequel, but at least it lives on in spirit with the Ratchet and Clank games. Speaking of which, JFG did that game formula first, yet Ratchet tends to get the credit for it. That's a bit annoying.