Character Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

Yes, if we do get an F-Zero newcomer, Goroh is the top candidate. Getting another F-Zero character is the difficultly though. The series has never been one of utmost popularity, and neither have its supporting characters.

F-Zero is one of the most classic Nintendo franchises, highly requested for a new installment like Star Fox, and Goroh has become very popular from Super Smash Brothers as well as being seen important in the eyes of Smash Bros along with F-Zero itself.

Considering the franchise has done nothing since before Brawl (other than the Nintendo Land reference I suppose), and wasn't huge then anyway, mixed with the lack of popularity and demand for any second F-Zero character

Except there is demand for another F-Zero character. If I recall correctly, Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow are usually at least low tier. That's more than you can say for a lot of characters.

I really don't see getting Goroh... unless maybe he's like a semi-clone or something, which seems pretty unlikely.

Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's rival who is also an F-Zero racer who shares similarities with Captain Falcon (who's move set is based on him being an F-Zero racer) and him being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon is unlikely? On what grounds? That he has a sword? That's not a good basis. Sakurai makes people into semi-clones because he thinks they should be, not because he has no choice. He's even said that.

And just imagine. Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon with his sword as a taunt. But, then comes Samurai Goroh who is actually similar to Captain Falcon and from the same game, wielding his sword around everywhere.

Having "unique" abilities does not exempt you from being a semi-clone, such an assumption is ignorant. A similar character having unique source material is not on it's own a strong enough basis to assume it will be implemented.

Having Samurai Goroh not being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon simply would not pass.

 

[Will]

Guys,I just realized Meta-Knight has a second chance.

May 2nd.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What if Meta Knight got cut? Surprisingly it wouldn't surprise me now that I think about it. Would certainly make more sense than Mewtwo. (Well, having cuts at all would surprise me, but if we DID have cuts then it wouldn't.)

 

[Will]

Updated my roster with Diddy's... really off looking render. He certainly isn't the best looking character we've gotten so far.

I also just picked up Tropical Freeze, just starting on the first level now. There doesn't seem to be an option to turn off DK's grunting noises when he jumps, hopefully that won't turn really annoying real quick. First DK game I've played since DKC3, so this'll be a real nostalgia blast.

With my determined Roster skills: 48/50

I thought of our new third party newcomer,and this is what I got :

Geno.

EDIT : Double Posts,my worst enemy.

 

[Tepig2000]

I thought of our new third party newcomer,and this is what I got :

Geno.

I say Pacman is a better choice.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I say Pacman is a better choice.

I say Bambermon is best choice

But, Sakurai really likes to make clear how special of a case Mega Man was. And I don't think either characters reach enough requests.

 

[Will]

I say Pacman is a better choice.

I hate how one period of time in the smash bros fandom there's all the rage wanting this character. After you agree with that after a week or so,you're late to a new character who is the wanting rage.

 

[Kenith]

I say Pacman is a better choice.

I think Big Zam is a better Namco Bandai representative.

I thought of our new third party newcomer,and this is what I got : Geno.
EDIT : Double Posts,my worst enemy.

You are your own worst enemy, grasshopper.

Geno would be cool, but you know if Nintendo went to ask Square Enix for a character, it'd go one of two ways:

"We'll let you use Lightning."
"Nope. Can't help you, too protective of IPs."

 

[JamesDNaux]

This is the same as before, right? If so, pretty good. I see you're avoiding arguments by selecting no Zelda newcomers and choosing Chrom by default. Any other issue I have is just bias, so I can't complain.

Well I do think we won't get a Zelda newcomer this time, and yeah, Chrom is there because I give up on Fire Emblem.

@ JamesDNaux
Pretty good, but I think Lip and Krystal are questionable.

Ah thanks, I know they're both questionable, however I feel Krystal may have a good chance considering Sakurai is going for unique choices this time, and he hadn't known she was so requested during Brawl's development, so he may possibly add her this time. She feels like the "Rosalina" of Star Fox. Lip is mostly a hopeful choice though, but with how Sakurai feels about Panel de Pon, there's always that slight chance. She could be a more surprising character, he does like those.


The visuals in Tropical Freeze are so damn good. I already thought they looked amazing when I saw the video of the opening online, but that doesn't even compare to how the opening looked on the television. That fur was just glorious.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I say Pacman is a better choice.

KOS-MOS would be better.

**** representative crap, we need giant gatling guns on the roster.

 

[Gunla]

The visuals in Tropical Freeze are so damn good. I already thought they looked amazing when I saw the video of the opening online, but that doesn't even compare to how the opening looked on the television. That fur was just glorious.

Agreed. But as for Smash 4...
Seriously, something about Diddy's model and art feels... off. Like the fake Ness website leak looked more legitimate and faithful to me.

Spoiler: What that looked like

Geno would be cool, but you know if Nintendo went to ask Square Enix for a character, it'd go one of two ways:

"We'll let you use Lightning."
"Nope. Can't help you, too protective of IPs."

This is what Square will likely do with most of the characters anyone would want. They've became a lot more meticulous of this and they want to promote certain things to an extreme extent, so instead of having something like Black Mage, we'd likely get Lightning instead or nothing.

KOS-MOS would be better.

**** representative crap, we need giant gatling guns on the roster.

I agree entirely. KOS-MOS has even been on Nintendo Consoles/Handhelds!

 

[Protom]

Glad the Dixie diddy team thing is de confirmed. I still favor Dixie over k Rool however, though besides at random or secret, I don't know when they could get revealed.
Also, I always though smash would release more in November.

 

[Manny Toons]

We haven't had a returning AT revealed in a while...

The only ones I see likely to cause rage and sadness upon reveal are Isaac, Saki, Lyn, Waluigi, and to a lesser extent Goroh. Maybe Tingle.
But at the very least like... three of them will be deconfirmed at some point. Potentially all of them.

I personally can't see any remaining ATs becoming playable except maybe Isaac, who hardly has great chances. I think Tingle's case would be a lot stronger if he wasn't disliked by much of the world, so much so Japan and Nintendo have even acknowledged it. Japan. I know Sakurai does what he wants for the most part, and if he wants Tingle playable Nintendo isn't going to stop him, but tbh I see him being on the same page as Nintendo on this one. Though Tingle does have enough in his favour to merit playability.

Oh God, really? Example please? That is hilarious.

 

[Kenith]

Well I do think we won't get a Zelda newcomer this time, and yeah, Chrom is there because I give up on Fire Emblem.

Lol. You should just choose Masked Marth and Ike.
I don't find a Zelda newcomer likely, but I do find it just great.

Also, why does everyone hate Krystal? Is it overuse of Star Fox characters?

 

[Gunla]

Glad the Dixie diddy team thing is de confirmed. I still favor Dixie over k Rool however, though besides at random or secret, I don't know when they could get revealed.
Also, I always though smash would release more in November.

I'm expecting sometime in the Fall or straight up E3; and in addition, three newcomers like last time and a release date at E3 is my thoughts. We know right now when these reveals will be but we currently have little clues as to what it could be.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Dig Dug would be better if not Pac-Man.
I would love to blow opponents up with the air pump.

 

[Gune]

I say Pacman is a better choice.

Dig-dug is the best choice especially if he gets in looking like this

Spoiler

 

[AEMehr]

Another couple of confirmations, another roster is made.

Changes since last version include:
• Little Mac's artwork changed to reflect his confirmation.
• Diddy Kong's artwork changes to reflect his confirmation.
• Third Fire Emblem character has been swapped out for Takamaru.
• Several other artwork upgrades.

Nothing else to say really, other than I'd put a third Fire Emblem character in as character # 50 / 54.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Lol. You should just choose Masked Marth and Ike.
I don't find a Zelda newcomer likely, but I do find it just great.

Also, why does everyone hate Krystal? Is it overuse of Star Fox characters?

Her appearance as an anthro vixen with skimpy clothing in her first appearance is one reason.

Her fanbase is another reason. I recall some were saying she was more important than Falco and Wolf and would replace one of them because she's Fox's girlfriend.

As for myself, I wouldn't mind her as long as they made her unique. (especially in the Final Smash department)

I don't expect her this time around though, as four Star Fox characters is too much in proportion to other franchises like Metroid, DK, and F-Zero.

-----

 

[BluePikmin11]

I recommend switching out Isaac for someone else, that's all I can see regarding the roster.

 

[N3ON]

F-Zero is one of the most classic Nintendo franchises, highly requested for a new installment like Star Fox, and Goroh has become very popular from Super Smash Brothers as well as being seen important in the eyes of Smash Bros along with F-Zero itself.

"Classic" is a wholly meaningless term as far as Smash goes if we're not referring to retro characters. Impact of the series, importance of the series, audience size of the series, popularity of the characters, potential of the characters, even recentness of the characters matters more than a non-retro series being "classic". Does "classic" mean age? Mario, Zelda, DK, Metroid, Fire Emblem, Mother, Kid Icarus, Punch-Out, and the retro series are all more "classic" than F-Zero by that distinction.

And requests for a game don't matter for Smash either. Requests for characters matter, and actually getting games matter. Sakurai doesn't add characters because people want more of their games.

Goroh is more important and popular than any other F-Zero characters not already playable, but in general... he's not a very popular character, and F-Zero isn't a major Nintendo series. Being classic doesn't make it so.

Except there is demand for another F-Zero character

Except there is much more demand for many other characters.

Samurai Goroh is Captain Falcon's rival who is also an F-Zero racer who shares similarities with Captain Falcon (who's move set is based on him being an F-Zero racer) and him being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon is unlikely? On what grounds? That he has a sword? That's not a good reason Sakurai makes people into semi-clones because he thinks they should be, not because he has no choice. He's even said that.

First, Captain Falcon's moveset is not based on being a racer, with perhaps the exception of his speed. It's based on the beta-fighter from Dragon King.

Second, Goroh is neither similar to Captain Falcon in how he would fight nor his body structure. Those are the factors which get semi-clones included.
Plus, Sakurai doesn't include semi-clones because they should be clones, he includes them because they could be clones. If you find even one source where Sakurai said he included a clone because they should be a clone and not because they were similar to an existing character in some regard or because they would make a feasible clone, please share it. In Melee, Sakurai actually passed on characters because they were too similar to others before he decided he needed to pad the roster.

Having "unique" abilities does not exempt you from being a semi-clone, such an assumption is ignorant. A similar character having unique source material is not on it's own a strong enough basis to assume it will be implemented.

No, but having nothing in common with the fighting style or body structure of the original character usually does.

Having Samurai Goroh not being a semi-clone of Captain Falcon simply would not pass.

Sakurai already decided who he thought was the best fit for a Captain Falcon clone, and it wasn't Goroh.

Ganondorf was the last character added to the game. He was only included because he was popular, had a similar body type to Captain Falcon, and because Sakurai couldn't really think of any additional plausible clones.

So obviously Goroh was not a plausible Captain Falcon clone to Sakurai. And it's not like Goroh would slip Sakurai's mind, he was even in the intro.

 

[Kenith]

I recommend switching out Isaac for someone else, that's all I can see regarding the roster.

And replace him with who, Dr. Kawashima? Harry? Tom Nook? Quiet you.

Her appearance as an anthro vixen with skimpy clothing in her first appearance is one reason.
Her fanbase is another reason. I recall some were saying she was more important than Falco and Wolf and would replace one of them because she's Fox's girlfriend.
As for myself, I wouldn't mind her as long as they made her unique. (especially in the Final Smash department)
I don't expect her this time around though, as four Star Fox characters is too much in proportion to other franchises like Metroid, DK, and F-Zero.

Well those are all stupid reasons. Four SF characters is excessive, though. I want six Mario and Pokemon reps before four Star Fox.

 

[BluePikmin11]

And replace him with who, Dr. Kawashima? Harry? Tom Nook? Quiet you.

Maybe..
Though I would just replace Isaac with a 3rd FE character, a 5th Zelda character, or Pac-Man.

 

[AEMehr]

I recommend switching out Isaac for someone else, that's all I can see regarding the roster.

Next to Black Shadow, I'm willing to concede that I believe Isaac is probably one of the least likely characters on my roster. But I believe that this is his last chance to really have a chance to be in Smash, unless Golden Sun gets another game and gets really popular again.

 

[N3ON]

Oh God, really? Example please? That is hilarious.

I don't really have a specific example or link off-hand, but Japan knows Tingle is unpopular outside it, and Nintendo has stated his poor reception internationally has caused his exclusion in Zelda games.

 

[YoshiandToad]

This is what Square will likely do with most of the characters anyone would want. They've became a lot more meticulous of this and they want to promote certain things to an extreme extent, so instead of having something like Black Mage, we'd likely get Lightning instead or nothing.

I vote for nothing.

But yes, Square almost definitely would use it more for current promotion than retro nostalgia...so I guess Sora would have a shot as well as Lightning. Urgh.

 

[N3ON]

I recommend switching out Isaac for someone else, that's all I can see regarding the roster.

You recommend switching Isaac out when Muddy Mole is on the roster?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Next to Black Shadow, I'm willing to concede that I believe Isaac is probably one of the least likely characters on my roster. But I believe that this is his last chance to really have a chance to be in Smash, unless Golden Sun gets another game and gets really popular again.

There's always next Smash if he doesn't make it, I personally don't it's too late for anyone.
But I don't think he has enough going for him nor is his abilities enough to make into the main roster.

You recommend switching Isaac out when Muddy Mole is on the roster?

Well, that's what he chose for a 2nd possible revival character, I think he's fine on the roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You recommend switching Isaac out when Muddy Mole is on the roster?

We must keep Muddy Mole to please Opossum.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I don't really have a specific example or link off-hand, but Japan knows Tingle is unpopular outside it, and Nintendo has stated his poor reception internationally has caused his exclusion in Zelda games.

To elaborate even further, in Twilight Princess that dude who runs the circus tent was supposed to be Twilight Princess's Tingle, but upon realizing that Tingle is unpopular, this ended up being changed to not be Tingle.

 

[Sehnsucht]

We must keep Muddy Mole to please Opossum.

I thought it was the other way around.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We must keep Muddy Mole to please Opossum.

Opposum is not Sakurai.

 

[Manny Toons]

I don't really have a specific example or link off-hand, but Japan knows Tingle is unpopular outside it, and Nintendo has stated his poor reception internationally has caused his exclusion in Zelda games.

Yowch. Good think I don't care about Tingle as a character. I just want an annoying, hated newcomer for Smash.
That's pretty harsh, regardless.

 

[Will]

I feel as if alot of series are kind of getting low treatment. We mostly talk about FE Characters,Newcomers,and Ridley.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I feel as if alot of series are kind of getting low treatment. We mostly talk about FE Characters,Newcomers,and Ridley.

Mostly because many people aren't that familar with other series that are rarely discussed here.
We honestly should discuss them more often than we should, because discussing K. Rool and Ridley is not the only thing this thread offers.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What if Meta Knight got cut? )

He won't be.

 

[josh bones]

I could see mk being cut, then everyone clamors for him in ssb6

 

[BluePikmin11]

I can only see Ike as being the "Mewtwo" kind of cut due to time constraints.

 

[Ura]

Did you want this organized in series columns? Or you just wanted to make a wishlist?

It was a wishlist. I forgot to put Andy from Advance Wars as well.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Why would Meta Knight be cut? he's one of the most notable newcomers in the game.