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True, but I think it may have helped :4darkpit: a bit. Not bashing :4darkpit:, after all, he was just a last-minute addition to buff the roster, but I think there could've been better canidates, like perhaps Blood Falcon or something. But, yeah. Sakurai bias is not likely to help. I hope for a surprise VC release, even if I kind of doubt it's going to happen.
Dark Pit was, like Dr. Mario and Lucina, an alt costume of Pit that had differences from the original character. That is why he became promoted to separate clone later on like the others.
The only other "option" was Alph, but he wasn't given any differences at all from Olimar to warrant separation.
 
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PSIBoy

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Dark Pit was, like Dr. Mario and Lucina, an alt costume of Pit that had differences from the original character. That is why he became promoted to separate clone later on like the others.
The only other "option" was Alph, but he wasn't given any differences at all from Olimar to warrant separation.
That's what I meant. Sorry if that wasn't clear. It's just that I thought Blood Falcon's coloring was one of Captain Falcon's alts (correct me if I'm wrong) and I think he would've made a better choice. Though, what do I know about video game development, haha...
 
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That's what I meant. Sorry if that wasn't clear. It's just that I thought Blood Falcon's coloring was one of Captain Falcon's alts (correct me if I'm wrong) and I think he would've made a better choice. Though, what do I know about video game development, haha...
Captain Falcon has a palette that resembles Blood Falcon, but it's not actually Blood Falcon himself.
Much like how Peach has a palette that resembles Daisy, Meta Knight has palettes that resemble Galacta Knight and Dark Meta Knight, etc.
 

PSIBoy

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Captain Falcon has a palette that resembles Blood Falcon, but it's not actually Blood Falcon himself.
Much like how Peach has a palette that resembles Daisy, Meta Knight has palettes that resemble Galacta Knight and Dark Meta Knight, etc.
Ah. I think I get it now. Thank you for clarifying. I just thought that maybe Sakurai could've used the palettes instead of costumes, but I guess it wasn't as easy or as quick as using an alt.
 

Kenith

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Daisy should be a DLC alt for Peach. I mean, seriously. There is so little they would need to do, and arguably much to gain. Also, if Captain Toad is DLC, I want him to have a Toadette alt.
 
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If they were only at the level of the changes the other three experienced, he easily could've been though.
Honestly, I don't see how.
Only real way is to give him Rock Pikmin.....but how would they even work?
Purple Pikmin already cover the "heavy hitting and non-latching" aspect, and considering Rock Pikmin are quite indestructible...how would they be balanced?
Not except for Toad and Vegetables, either of which could be ignored...
Though Peach Bomb is pretty damning for her...
Dark Pit was separated over an Arm, arrows, and Final Smash. With the bar set rather low, I don't think even Daisy would have trouble clearing it.
 

Dizzy_Fool

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Honestly, I don't see how.
Only real way is to give him Rock Pikmin.....but how would they even work?
Purple Pikmin already cover the "heavy hitting and non-latching" aspect, and considering Rock Pikmin are quite indestructible...how would they be balanced?
Keep Red, Yellow, and Blue Pikmin, drop White and Purple, add Rock (hit even harder than Purple and are more durable but go a shorter distance and take longer to throw), make the bloom times different, make the standard and smash attacks slightly weaker or stronger than Olimar, adjust other properties like speed or jumping for the hell of it and to differentiate Alph, give him Olimar's old up aerial, ftilt, and/or jab combo (or have Olimar keep them and give Alph the new ones) and you've got a clone worthy of Lucina, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario.

Sure most of those changes are only for the sake of differentiation and nothing more, but it's not the first time that would've happened in Smash. The point of clones isn't really to break new ground.
 
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Kriven

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Rock Pikmin can be destroyed by elements, they're only defended against being crushed. So anybody with a fire/dark/electric/exploding attack could kill Rock Pikmin.

To differentiate them from Purple Pikmin, make Purple Pikmin more like their source material: give them a slightly homing ground pound and allow them to latch on after that, like any other Pikmin. If you want to keep them unique, allow them to bury enemies they hit directly as an homage to their ability to stun enemies in Pikmin 2.
 
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@ Dizzy_Fool Dizzy_Fool that goes against the weight stat of the Rock Pikmin in 3, though. They are as light as the other non-Purples, but are durable.

@ Kriven Kriven the point isn't to change what is already present; the point is to work Rock Pikmin in with what is there already.
First idea is good though. Basically make them take no damage from physical attacks like Gastly. Though that could be easily exploited...
 
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Dizzy_Fool

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And Mewtwo is a heavy ************ in Pokemon.

And the Monado arts don't hinder Shulk's other stats in Xenoblade.

And Kirby can fly infinitely in Kirby games.

And Samus doesn't have an infinite amount of missiles in Metroid.

And Purple Pikmin latch in Pikmin.

Smash tho.
 
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Ffamran

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And Mewtwo is a heavy mother****er in Pokemon.

And the Monado arts don't hinder Shulk's other stats in Xenoblade.

And Kirby can fly infinitely in Kirby games.

And Samus doesn't have an infinite amount of missiles in Metroid.

And Purple Pikmin latch in Pikmin.

Smash tho.
And there's Snake, the regular human with a ton of explosives.
 

Burruni

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Smash has stood for one concept: Creating a living tapestry of Nintendo's history, with some liberties of character integrity, to allow for a party-style fighting game experience that nobody else is able to properly encapsulate.

Ever since 64, we've had characters whose moves didn't really match what they've done in the games :fox64::falcon64::dk64:, characters many Nintendo fans probably haven't seen before :ness64::falcon64:, and some that people really question why they're even in a fighting game :jigglypuff64::yoshi64:.
But it was such a fresh idea that rocked the gaming wold back in the late 90s. At the time, the fighting genre was dominated by either arcade-style fighters the likes of Street Fighter or Marvel V.S. and the beat-em-up side scrolling adventures like Double Dragons or Battle Toads.
Smash came out and said "Why not reinvent so many of our iconic characters and put them all into a game to settle the argument of who'd win a fight?" While this premise sounds similar to the Marvel V.S. series, take into consideration that unlike Comics, games rarely had crossovers to this level.
Smash has stood for showing off all of their biggest and brightest against some less known characters with intense fans. :ness64::marthmelee::olimar::4shulk:. It's just the way things have evolved.

There will always be the factor of clones in the roster. :luigi64::drmario::falcomelee::ganondorfmelee::pichumelee::roymelee::younglinkmelee::lucas::toonlink::wolf::4lucina::4darkpit:
There will always be the characters we question why THEY got to be in:ness64::gawmelee::icsmelee::rob::zerosuitsamus::snake::4wiifit::4duckhunt::4mii:
But there are always the big additions that make the child inside of you cheer on from years past.:bowsermelee::ganondorfmelee::mewtwomelee::dedede::diddy::pt::warioc::4littlemac::4megaman::4villager::4pacman:
 

Lilfut

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Problem with the discussion of giving Alph Rock Pikmin is that that's all way too complex for a simple clone character. I'm seeing shuffled Pikmin order and some slightly changed properties.
 

ElPanandero

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Problem with the discussion of giving Alph Rock Pikmin is that that's all way too complex for a simple clone character. I'm seeing shuffled Pikmin order and some slightly changed properties.
Keep Red, Yellow, and Blue Pikmin, drop White and Purple, add Rock (hit even harder than Purple and are more durable but go a shorter distance and take longer to throw), make the bloom times different, make the standard and smash attacks slightly weaker or stronger than Olimar, adjust other properties like speed or jumping for the hell of it and to differentiate Alph, give him Olimar's old up aerial, ftilt, and/or jab combo (or have Olimar keep them and give Alph the new ones) and you've got a clone worthy of Lucina, Dark Pit, and Dr. Mario.

Sure most of those changes are only for the sake of differentiation and nothing more, but it's not the first time that would've happened in Smash. The point of clones isn't really to break new ground.
This seems a pretty easy to implement way to add Rock Pikmin. Maybe up their weight to so recovery is harder with them (more so than purps)
 

Lilfut

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That still means making a new model with new animations and new code behind it. Compare that to Dark Pit and Lucina, and to a lesser extent Dr. Mario.
 

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That still means making a new model with new animations and new code behind it. Compare that to Dark Pit and Lucina, and to a lesser extent Dr. Mario.
Fair, but it could use all the same animations for throwing/swinging, the only thing that would need to be done would be to make the model for the pikmin themselves, which aren't hugely difficult (would the electric effects/visual differences be more work from a a modeling perspective?) and that is the same vein that Doc went through from Mario. The Pills look way different from the fireballs and they have modded properties
 

Dizzy_Fool

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Not much has changed, and extremely unsure about Captain Toad, he's probably going to be a filler slot for now.
If someone suggests you add a character you could chalk it up to bias. If two people suggest that character you could call it a coincidence. If three or more people suggest a character, you'll have to admit that character has popularity.

But there comes a point where if a character is suggested over and over, and you refuse to add them, it might be you that has the bias against that character.

That said, not adding Isaac is a truly glaring omission at this point. And it's not like you only have a few DLC choices. You have twenty DLC characters there. Are we going to get 20 DLC characters? Absolutely not. Are we definitely going to get Isaac as DLC? No way. But is he in the top 20 most likely candidates for DLC? You betcha. He's probably in the top 10. I mean while you have some likely picks there, some of your other ones make that whole grouping kind of a joke tbh, but there's nothing stopping you from changing it for the better.

Ofc why start now when it comes to making sensible roster picks? :rolleyes:

This seems a pretty easy to implement way to add Rock Pikmin. Maybe up their weight to so recovery is harder with them (more so than purps)
Yeah, that too.

Problem with the discussion of giving Alph Rock Pikmin is that that's all way too complex for a simple clone character. I'm seeing shuffled Pikmin order and some slightly changed properties.
One Pikmin that functions differently simply because his weight, damage, and durability are a little higher is still very much a step down from how clones were treated in Brawl. This would be pretty much on par with Dr. Mario, who got the megavitimins and a special different than Mario. It might be more complex than Lucina, who basically works the same as Marth with the tiniest of changes, but all it would be is one facet of one special being changed, which Doc and Dark Pit both experienced.

That still means making a new model with new animations and new code behind it. Compare that to Dark Pit and Lucina, and to a lesser extent Dr. Mario.
For one Pikmin, yeah. That's much much less than the equivalent for a character.

They can use the existing code for a Pikmin and just change around the properties. Considering it wouldn't be any harder to make than a custom attack, it sounds pretty doable.
 
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Lilfut

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Pichu, Young Link, Ivysaur, and Lucas are all on that roster.
You have my support.
 

True Blue Warrior

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If someone suggests you add a character you could chalk it up to bias. If two people suggest that character you could call it a coincidence. If three or more people suggest a character, you'll have to admit that character has popularity.

But there comes a point where if a character is suggested over and over, and you refuse to add them, it might be you that has the bias against that character.
Daily reminder that Young Link ain't happening.:p
 

Kriven

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If someone suggests you add a character you could chalk it up to bias. If two people suggest that character you could call it a coincidence. If three or more people suggest a character, you'll have to admit that character has popularity.

But there comes a point where if a character is suggested over and over, and you refuse to add them, it might be you that has the bias against that character.

That said, not adding Isaac is a truly glaring omission at this point. And it's not like you only have a few DLC choices. You have twenty DLC characters there. Are we going to get 20 DLC characters? Absolutely not. Are we definitely going to get Isaac as DLC? No way. But is he in the top 20 most likely candidates for DLC? You betcha.
This thinking is so flawed I don't even know where to start. Popular =/= Likely by any stretch of the imagination.

Right Ridley? Krystal? Ashley? Geno? Goroh? Lyn?
 

Dizzy_Fool

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This thinking is so flawed I don't even know where to start. Popular =/= Likely by any stretch of the imagination.

Right Ridley? Krystal? Ashley? Geno? Goroh? Lyn?
Point me to where I said anything about popularity equaling likelihood.

I said if a character gets a lot of requests, they have popularity (which was tangential to my point). That if you ignore suggestions, you might be biased against the character. And that, with that in mind, Isaac is in the top 20 most likely candidates for DLC.

Coincidentally I don't see any of those characters being suggested for his DLC group.
 
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Kriven

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Point me to where I said anything about popularity equaling likelihood.

I said if a character gets a lot of requests, they have popularity. That if you ignore suggestions, you might be biased against the character. And that, with that in mind, Isaac is in the top 20 most likely candidates for DLC.

Coincidentally I don't see any of those characters being suggested for his DLC group.
This logic is exactly "Popular = Likely."

"Three People Want Isaac --> Isaac is One of the Twenty Likeliest Characters for DLC"

That is exactly what you just said, and that is exactly "Popular = Likely" mentality. You even wrote out the equation.

Edit: By insisting that people consider a character "Likely" because of their popularity, you are practicing "Popular = Likely" mentality. By claiming a person's attempted objectivism is false because an overwhelming majority wants a character that wasn't included in their predictions you are practicing "Popular = Likely" mentality.
 
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JaidynReiman

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This logic is exactly "Popular = Likely."

"Three People Want Isaac --> Isaac is One of the Twenty Likeliest Characters for DLC"

That is exactly what you just said, and that is exactly "Popular = Likely" mentality. You even wrote out the equation.
The reason Isaac is very likely is for many, many multiple reasons:

1.) Golden Sun is not just some niche game a small amount of fans are throwing around. GS1/2 both sold over a million copies.
2.) Isaac is one of the most requested characters for Smash in general.
3.) Isaac was cut as an Assist Trophy from Brawl for no apparent reason.
4.) Golden Sun has not one, but TWO music tracks in the game, proving Nintendo, or at least Sakurai, does not consider the series "irrelevant."
5.) The new Golden Sun track is ripped straight from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, the least selling game in the franchise.
6.) Even games that don't sell very well DO get represented in Smash Bros. Metroid: Other M, anyone?
7.) Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was only a few years ago, around the same time as Xenoblade Chronicles and after that of Punch Out Wii. Its still very relevant.
8.) Just because no new game has been announced doesn't mean its not in development.
9.) Isaac is the most iconic character in the franchise, and the most recurring "main" character, having been a main playable character in the first two games and a major story character in the third.


Besides, who the hell said three people want Isaac? Isaac is actually a very popular request, and has consistently been in the Top 10 most requested Smash 4 characters throughout the entire speculation period, I've rarely ever seen a Top 10 list that did not mention Isaac (other top requested characters appearing in almost every list I saw being King K. Rool, Ridley, Mega Man, and Palutena). He was also one of the most popular Assist Trophies in Brawl, and now his AT is missing, even though GS IS getting content this time around.


Feel free to find him unlikely if you want, but if you're going to make predictions, do the research. Isaac is definitely at LEAST within the Top 20. Although personally I'd say he's the #1 most likely DLC newcomer at this point, this despite me feeling that King K. Rool is the most iconic Nintendo character not playable in Smash yet, with Dixie Kong a close second (well, I'd usually put Ridley between the two, but he can't be DLC).
 

ElPanandero

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Daily reminder that Young Link ain't happening.:p
But Majora's Mask :(

The reason Isaac is very likely is for many, many multiple reasons:

1.) Golden Sun is not just some niche game a small amount of fans are throwing around. GS1/2 both sold over a million copies.
2.) Isaac is one of the most requested characters for Smash in general.
3.) Isaac was cut as an Assist Trophy from Brawl for no apparent reason.
4.) Golden Sun has not one, but TWO music tracks in the game, proving Nintendo, or at least Sakurai, does not consider the series "irrelevant."
5.) The new Golden Sun track is ripped straight from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, the least selling game in the franchise.
6.) Even games that don't sell very well DO get represented in Smash Bros. Metroid: Other M, anyone?
7.) Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was only a few years ago, around the same time as Xenoblade Chronicles and after that of Punch Out Wii. Its still very relevant.
8.) Just because no new game has been announced doesn't mean its not in development.
9.) Isaac is the most iconic character in the franchise, and the most recurring "main" character, having been a main playable character in the first two games and a major story character in the third.


Besides, who the hell said three people want Isaac? Isaac is actually a very popular request, and has consistently been in the Top 10 most requested Smash 4 characters throughout the entire speculation period, I've rarely ever seen a Top 10 list that did not mention Isaac (other top requested characters appearing in almost every list I saw being King K. Rool, Ridley, Mega Man, and Palutena). He was also one of the most popular Assist Trophies in Brawl, and now his AT is missing, even though GS IS getting content this time around.


Feel free to find him unlikely if you want, but if you're going to make predictions, do the research. Isaac is definitely at LEAST within the Top 20. Although personally I'd say he's the #1 most likely DLC newcomer at this point, this despite me feeling that King K. Rool is the most iconic Nintendo character not playable in Smash yet, with Dixie Kong a close second (well, I'd usually put Ridley between the two, but he can't be DLC).
Yea, this, Issac is basically the fourth guy after the big three
 
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Kriven

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I wasn't saying Isaac is unlikely, I was saying "Being Popular Makes Him Likely" is stupid logic.
 

BluePikmin11

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But there comes a point where if a character is suggested over and over, and you refuse to add them, it might be you that has the bias against that character.
I no longer have bias against Isaac (I stopped nitpicking about GS's problems in terms of gameplay long time ago), but he does having some glaring problems (that I have been mentioning for many many times; you probably know by now) that can easily prevent him from being a DLC character.

And it's not like you only have a few DLC choices. You have twenty DLC characters there. Are we going to get 20 DLC characters? Absolutely not.
It is just a list, and I'm well aware that not all of them will make it. I had 20 because (from what I heard) Sakurai is able to make up to 20 newcomer choices for a Smash installment. (Might've been the time during pre-Smash 4 or Brawl)

But is he in the top 20 most likely candidates for DLC? You betcha. He's probably in the top 10.
I think he's much lower than the top 10. Probably around top 20-30 depending how far you expand your choices (like third-parties).

Ofc why start now when it comes to making sensible roster picks? :rolleyes:
What defines sensible for you?

I said if a character gets a lot of requests, they have popularity. That if you ignore that, you might be biased against the character. And that Isaac is in the top 20 most likely candidates for DLC.
That means they the top 10 most requested candidates for DLC. :U
 

Curious Villager

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In terms of potential "Clone/Semi-Clone" characters. I personally don't think we'd get any in the fashion like Dark Pit and Lucina. (slightly modified alternate costumes/characters and all) If we where to get any "similar" characters, I'd wager they would probably be at least around Brawl's level more or less (Wolf, Lucas type of characters, perhaps Falco and Toon Link like ones) but that's just me really. Assuming we'd get a few of course. *shrug*
 
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Dizzy_Fool

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This logic is exactly "Popular = Likely."

"Three People Want Isaac --> Isaac is One of the Twenty Likeliest Characters for DLC"

That is exactly what you just said, and that is exactly "Popular = Likely" mentality. You even wrote out the equation.

Edit: By insisting that people consider a character "Likely" because of their popularity, you are practicing "Popular = Likely" mentality. By claiming a person's attempted objectivism is false because an overwhelming majority wants a character that wasn't included in their predictions you are practicing "Popular = Likely" mentality.
No, it wasn't. You're presuming that I continued with the chain of thought connecting from when I spoke about three+ requests equaling popularity. But that was it's own isolated thought just as one possibly being bias and two possibly being a coincidence were. I didn't say "with that popularity" or something along those lines afterwards, I said "but there comes a point" meaning "but regardless of or despite those three situations (bias, coincidence, and popularity) there comes a point where ignoring it may indicate bias". Next you presume that suggestion is synonymous with popularity. That's not true. Did you see the number of people who included Miis on their rosters that really didn't want them there? Do you think all the people who have suggested Isaac do so simply because he is their most wanted character? I don't think Isaac is @ False Sense False Sense 's most wanted character, but suggestion is not limited to the confines of popularity. I suggested BluePikmin add Bandana Dee and K. Rool over some of the choices he had previously, and I don't want either of those two, nor did I suggest either of them due to popularity.

My point was casting popularity aside, casting bias and coincidence aside by only listening when the suggestions start piling up, more than that of other characters. The characters you listed are indeed popular, but look, none of them are seriously suggested very often, minus Ridley (whose at least at the beginning of Smash 4 speculation did have great cause for the volume of suggestion). They weren't the characters suggested by the majority (again excluding Ridley), they were the characters suggested here and there by fanboys, in certain situations, or on wishlists. Like "if there was another SF character, I'd suggest Krystal", not that people actually did suggest Krystal with any regularity, even if she did have popularity. Maybe on Miiverse they did, maybe on Youtube, but here suggestions by and large were made with more than bias to support them. Yet you implied that they aren't.

Next, I didn't even say that being suggested over and over again meant they were a likely pick, just that ignoring those suggestions could very well mean bias. Which is true!

And then I said, "that said", meaning my point was to relate to the next point I was going to make, which was talking about Isaac. It wasn't talking about Ridley or Ashley or Goroh or whoever, it was relating specifically to Isaac. I was applying what I had just said to Isaac's case, none other. And in Isaac's case, the constant suggestions are not made up solely of staunch Isaac supporters who will mix their desires with their objectivism, most people know that Isaac is indeed at least in the top 20 most likely DLC characters, and it isn't simply due to him being a popular pick. Popularity itself obviously doesn't translate directly to likelihood. My point was not that, "if people ask for a character enough, that makes them likely and ignoring it is clear bias; Isaac is likely because people ask for him", it was "bias, coincidence, and popularity are one thing, but if a character like Isaac gets suggested over and over (by the people here, on this site, in this neutral thread - something I didn't specify but also didn't think I needed to) continuing to omit him may very well be a sign of bias".

By your interpretation of what I said, bias and coincidence should also affect likelihood. Those first three points were tangential to my main argument and deliberate examples of things that can be ultimately brushed off, not stuff that counts more than anything else, which is what you seem to think I said.

Popularity can result in suggestion, but suggestion is not made up solely of popularity or pure subjective desire, especially on this site outside of individual character threads or popularity polls.
 
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Kriven

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I think if we got clones at all they would be included with non-cloned characters, released as a clone character pack, or free patches.
 

Kriven

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Maybe on Miiverse they did, maybe on Youtube, but here suggestions by and large were made with more than bias to support them.
Because they really aren't, by any stretch of the imagination. I don't understand how people can continue to claim "Favorites here are decided by more than bias" when I keep seeing Bandana Dee, isaac, and Ray bandied about like they're actually relevant characters. Ray hasn't seen a game since the DS, and Isaac's latest outing was a failure. Those characters, like all the ones I listed in my previous post (Goroh, Krystal, etc.) had their glory day on the Game Cube, the Game Boy Advance, and the early Nintendo DS. They are not relevant in a current gaming environment. The only reason they continue to garner support is nothing short of community bias. There's this cluster**** of people who follow the "We don't like them but we can see them getting in, and so can everybody else. That isn't popularity. They're just likely" mantra and actually believe it, when that is literally popularity. Popularity isn't about being "liked", it's about being supported. The only reason Isaac is "popular" as a candidate is because everybody sees him on everybody else's lists.

This entire forum is under the influence of community-wide bias blinders and dish out the "You must be biased" line to anybody who disagrees with their assessment.

Jesus Christ, I joined this place in 2007 and have less than two-hundred posts. This massive anti-analytical circle-jerk is probably why.
 

False Sense

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Do you think all the people who have suggested Isaac do so simply because he is their most wanted character? I don't think Isaac is @ False Sense False Sense 's most wanted character, but suggestion is not limited to the confines of popularity.
This is indeed accurate. I don't care at all for Isaac; I think he could potentially be a cool character to have on the roster, but I have no familiarity or personal connection with him or his series. But based on a variety of factors, such as the success and praise of the Golden Sun series, Isaac's popularity as a Smash request (I bring this up only as a single factor in Isaac's favor; I don't argue that popular = likely), and the unusual absence of an Isaac Assist Trophy along with the addition of further Golden Sun content, I find Isaac to be, at the very least, a noteworthy candidate for DLC. I think he's far from a shoo-in (those don't exist), but he stands out as a real possibility.

By the way, I have to say that I am quite impressed with the quality of your post. Good job. ;)
 
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JaidynReiman

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Because they really aren't, by any stretch of the imagination. I don't understand how people can continue to claim "Favorites here are decided by more than bias" when I keep seeing Bandana Dee, isaac, and Ray bandied about like they're actually relevant characters. Ray hasn't seen a game since the DS, and Isaac's latest outing was a failure. Those characters, like all the ones I listed in my previous post (Goroh, Krystal, etc.) had their glory day on the Game Cube, the Game Boy Advance, and the early Nintendo DS. They are not relevant in a current gaming environment. The only reason they continue to garner support is nothing short of community bias. There's this cluster**** of people who follow the "We don't like them but we can see them getting in, and so can everybody else. That isn't popularity. They're just likely" mantra and actually believe it, when that is literally popularity. Popularity isn't about being "liked", it's about being supported. The only reason Isaac is "popular" as a candidate is because everybody sees him on everybody else's lists.

This entire forum is under the influence of community-wide bias blinders and dish out the "You must be biased" line to anybody who disagrees with their assessment.

Jesus Christ, I joined this place in 2007 and have less than two-hundred posts. This massive anti-analytical circle-jerk is probably why.
No, Isaac is popular because Golden Sun 1/2 were both popular, both of them selling more than every single Fire Emblem game. Considering the fact that this was back in the GBA days when millions of sales weren't needed to make a profit, that's a huge deal.

Dark Dawn didn't sell that well. But neither did Metroid: Other M, and Other M has references left and right.


And last I checked, Ray isn't a popularly requested character at all. He's BARELY brought up. Bandana Dee, on the other hand, IS relevant, having appeared in all the latest Kirby games.

Seriously, DO THE RESEARCH. You're not helping your case any.
 

Wintropy

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Winterwhite
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In terms of potential "Clone/Semi-Clone" characters. I personally don't think we'd get any in the fashion like Dark Pit and Lucina. (slightly modified alternate costumes/characters and all) If we where to get any "similar" characters, I'd wager they would probably be at least around Brawl's level more or less (Wolf, Lucas type of characters, perhaps Falco and Toon Link like ones) but that's just me really. Assuming we'd get a few of course. *shrug*
I think you raise a good point, Kiwi. I can see them including clones or semi-clones in the same vein as Tanooki Mario and Cat Peach in the Mario Kart 8 DLC packs: affordable and quickly-crafted fighters to give more value to the players' purchases and beef up the roster a bit more.

I agree that they'd probably make them "stand out" a bit more than other clones, of course - they do need to justify that piece tag, after all! I would be really happy to see some less popular or less requested fan favourites show up, too, as they would be bundled with the "big" DLC characters as extra freebies and therefore wouldn't have to justify the price tag as standalone fighters~
 

False Sense

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No, Isaac is popular because Golden Sun 1/2 were both popular, both of them selling more than every single Fire Emblem game. Considering the fact that this was back in the GBA days when millions of sales weren't needed to make a profit, that's a huge deal.

Dark Dawn didn't sell that well. But neither did Metroid: Other M, and Other M has references left and right.


And last I checked, Ray isn't a popularly requested character at all. He's BARELY brought up. Bandana Dee, on the other hand, IS relevant, having appeared in all the latest Kirby games.

Seriously, DO THE RESEARCH. You're not helping your case any.
Out of curiosity, just what was the reception to Dark Dawn like? My understanding of it is that the game received somewhat mixed reviews, and was cited as not being as good as the previous Golden Sun games. Yet here I see people saying that Dark Dawn was a failure. Which one is it?

I mean, there's a pretty significant difference between being "decent" and being a "failure," isn't there?
 
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