Character Discussion Thread

[Lilfut]

Unfortunately, the fact that Mother 3 bombed in Japan and didn't even come out officially in America means Lucas is fairly unlikely. As much as I'd love to see him.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Unfortunately, the fact that Mother 3 bombed in Japan and didn't even come out officially in America means Lucas is fairly unlikely. As much as I'd love to see him.

I don't remember hearing, "Mother 3 Bombed", ever, I think you are confusing it with another, I heard it did quite well in Japan.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Unfortunately, the fact that Mother 3 bombed in Japan and didn't even come out officially in America means Lucas is fairly unlikely. As much as I'd love to see him.

But Sakurai added him in Brawl if even it didn't so well in Japan. :U

 

[Burruni]

I don't remember hearing, "Mother 3 Bombed", ever, I think you are confusing it with another, I heard it did quite well in Japan.

Financially, it was not poor selling. But it wasn't as well received as the first two games in Japan. IMO Mother 3 is the superior game as a whole but it takes a significant time to get to the "True" game play.
Most of his popularity comes from Smash... and probably weighted a good bit by Project M which made him OUTSTANDING.

 

[Lilfut]

The Japanese fandom hates Mother 3 for being too big a departure from the established Mother formula - which, to be fair, it kind of is. It got Brawl rep because that game started development probably before Mother 3 was even released, and definitely before the fan reaction had really solidified.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

The Japanese fandom hates Mother 3 for being too big a departure from the established Mother formula - which, to be fair, it kind of is. It got Brawl rep because that game started development probably before Mother 3 was even released, and definitely before the fan reaction had really solidified.

Yeah, while I don't think it's a bad game like the Japanese fanbase, the massive departure just doesn't make it as good as Earthbound for me. In fact, it actually seemed like one big middle finger to even the idea of a "modern setting." Because of that, it just ended up being "generic rpg #436." It's not a bad game, but it lacks some of the charm of the Earthbound series.

Ness represents the mother series quite well I believe. While Lucas should come back because cuts aren't always pretty, I actually wouldn't be surprised if he didn't. He is just so unpopular to the people of japan.

 

[PSIBoy]

But Sakurai added him in Brawl if even it didn't so well in Japan. :U

I'm pretty sure Lucas was added prior to the release of Mother 3 in Japan, which sales were worse than Earthbound at least. I head somewhere that the Japanese aren't into emotional plots as much as Western audiences are. But how well is Lucas himself holding up popularity wise in Japan?

 

[KVLTofMetal]

Is Giygas for DLC thread still active?

 

[PSIBoy]

Is Giygas for DLC thread still active?

I... Honestly wouldn't mind that. Although people may complain that Giygas is a Mewtwo rip-off (even though it's technically the other way around if at all!), but it's no big deal, though he is less likely than other characters first. (Lucas, Duster, Masked Man, Paula... You get the idea)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People say that Lucas isn't popular in Japan.

They forget, he and Mother 3 are both popular over here.

 

[Burruni]

People say that Lucas isn't popular in Japan.

They forget, he and Mother 3 are both popular over here.

In that case you're arguing the popularity of a game and a character who, outside of Smash, legally are exclusive to their country to another one.

As much as I hate to say it, the international demand of Mother 3 may be overshadowed by the japanese audience.

 

[Lilfut]

People say that Lucas isn't popular in Japan.

They forget, he and Mother 3 are both popular over here.

Legally speaking, the American Mother 3 fandom should not exist.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

People say that Lucas isn't popular in Japan.

They forget, he and Mother 3 are both popular over here.

In that case you're arguing the popularity of a game and a character who, outside of Smash, legally are exclusive to they country to another one.

As much as I hate to say it, the international demand of Mother 3 may overshadow the japanese audience.

I also don't mean to be rude, but to be fair, I'm pretty sure the majority of people who played Mother 3 outside of Japan didn't pay a single cent for it.

And let's not forget the idea of "Forbidden Fruit." There is always the possibility of people liking it because it was a game they previously couldn't play and looking like they couldn't.

I honestly couldn't tell you how mother fans would've reacted to Mother 3 if it did get released internationally back then instead of staying in japan.

I just, really don't see anything else involving mother 3 getting into smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Legally speaking, the American Mother 3 fandom should not exist.

Your point?

It does and Nintendo acknowledges it. The creator of Mother 3 was even impressed with the efforts of the English translators and publicly stated that.

You're bringing morality in when quite frankly, it means bub-kiss.

I also don't mean to be rude, but to be fair, I'm pretty sure the majority of people who played Mother 3 outside of Japan didn't pay a single cent for it.

See above.

And let's not forget the idea of "Forbidden Fruit." There is always the possibility of people liking it because it was a game they previously couldn't play and looking like they couldn't.

That matters how? End of the story is that the game is a popular one over here and people love it. Why they love it isn't really important or else we could start deconstructing every fanbase and make them all sound like they shouldn't.

I honestly couldn't tell you how mother fans would've reacted to Mother 3 if it did get released internationally back then instead of staying in japan.

Coulda woulda shoulda don't mean much either.

I just, really don't see anything else involving mother 3 getting into smash.

Fair opinion. My opinion is just that are the two likeliest characters to return.

I have no problem with thinking they won't get in. It's just your logic that baffles and bothers me.

 

[Lilfut]

I'm not making morality judgments - hell, I loved Mother 3 just as much as every other Westerner that played it - but I'm pretty sure Nintendo is going to have a problem with it, even if Itoi doesn't.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'm not making morality judgments - hell, I loved Mother 3 just as much as every other Westerner that played it - but I'm pretty sure Nintendo is going to have a problem with it, even if Itoi doesn't.

Why?

It's not taking away revenue.

They are being credited.

It's advertising the series (and thus Earthbound).

Why should they be mad?

The translation of Mother 3 did nothing but good for them.

 

[Lilfut]

It's technically piracy and as far as corporations are concerned piracy is always A Bad Thing. It's not right, but it's how it is.

 

[KVLTofMetal]

I... Honestly wouldn't mind that. Although people may complain that Giygas is a Mewtwo rip-off (even though it's technically the other way around if at all!), but it's no big deal, though he is less likely than other characters first. (Lucas, Duster, Masked Man, Paula... You get the idea)

Someone on Deviantart did those awseome Giygas models. I was impressed.
He had a DLC character thread before the Lock but I can't find it now

 

[Deleted member]

Besides, with VC EarthBound's success on Wii U, a Mother 3 release in the West is expectable.
And therefore Lucas would be included for promotional sake.

 

[AEMehr]

Besides, with VC EarthBound's success on Wii U, a Mother 3 release in the West is expectable.
And therefore Lucas would be included for promotional sake.

Expected? Or desired? Nintendo certainly doesn't seem to have any interest in bringing MOTHER 3 to the west, unless you know something I don't.

 

[Deleted member]

Expected? Or desired? Nintendo certainly doesn't seem to have any interest in bringing MOTHER 3 to the west, unless you know something I don't.

Well, I mean feasible.

 

[Burruni]

Well, I mean feasible.

Like how Mother 1 had the CARTRIDGES MADE of "Earthbound Zero" on the GBA and were never sold so it's illegal to have them. We've not even seen a VC release from that finished product. Mother 3 never committed to any attempt of official translation.

Considering Mother 3 came out in 2006, the head of the series retired from it, and the fact that they have stated the IF they'd localize it that resources from the fanslation would not be used, I would not hold my breath. I enjoyed the game but if Operation Rainfall has said anything, it is that Nintendo listens to when fans desire a game and act fairly quickly if they intend to.

Honestly, I feel like that the raw demand that brought Xenoblade out of Japan (and still makes getting copies of the game insane) was a significant factor of good ol' Monado Boy getting into the game. Operation Rainfall, as some put it, "did what Mother fans have tried to."

 

[Frostwraith]

Bad sales/reception isn't the best argument to use when discussing characters.

There are several games that also bombed, yet get stuff in Smash. I mean, there's a stage from Metroid: Other M and music from Sonic 2006 of all things.

 

[Pazzo.]

Hey, if it counts, they did reference Mother 3 at E3....

Hopefully that's just another form of Nintendo teasing... like Majora's Mask.. right?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Or Ike. Path of Radiance was the worst selling game in the series. We still got Ike as playable.

 

[Pazzo.]

Or Ike. Path of Radiance was the worst selling game in the series. We still got Ike as playable.

People loved Ike as a character too.

The point is, game sales are irrelevant to a character's chances.

 

[BluePikmin11]

From what I heard Path of Radiance had really good reviews from many gaming websites, maybe Ike had the merits to get in as a playable character.

 

[Burruni]

Honestly, the game has little to do with because he's an established veteran. And a series being dead doesn't stop or because they're Smash icons.

It boils down to the weighed desire of Sakurai and his team to bring him back as the semi-clone he was and then the debate of how much he'd be changed (though don't raise too high of hopes in that regard).
With the fan outcry about Lucas and Wolf in particular raises high hopes for one if not both of them to return as DLC. I wouldn't expect much change, so prepare your third Landmaster and PK Starstorms (A spell, by the way, that NEITHER NESS OR LUCAS LEARN IN THEIR ACTUAL GAMES. has the excuse that through job change they can use dark tomes.)

 

[JaidynReiman]

Honestly, the game has little to do with because he's an established veteran. And a series being dead doesn't stop or because they're Smash icons.

It boils down to the weighed desire of Sakurai and his team to bring him back as the semi-clone he was and then the debate of how much he'd be changed (though don't raise too high of hopes in that regard).
With the fan outcry about Lucas and Wolf in particular raises high hopes for one if not both of them to return as DLC. I wouldn't expect much change, so prepare your third Landmaster and PK Starstorms (A spell, by the way, that NEITHER NESS OR LUCAS LEARN IN THEIR ACTUAL GAMES. has the excuse that through job change they can use dark tomes.)

About the only thing Wolf needs changed is his Final Smash. Even his specials are way different from Fox and Falco. Lucas' specials are mostly the same as Ness. I'm ok with cloned Final Smashes, I just don't want a THIRD cloned Final Smash. That's really annoying.

 

[Deleted member]

People said fan outcry would bring back Mewtwo and Roy.
It's only brought back Mewtwo, and that's mainly because there was more than just fan outcry in his favor.

It may bring Wolf back with assistance from the new Star Fox game making the series not "dead", but I have extreme doubts about Lucas being anything other than the "new Roy".

 

[Burruni]

About the only thing Wolf needs changed is his Final Smash. Even his specials are way different from Fox and Falco. Lucas' specials are mostly the same as Ness. I'm ok with cloned Final Smashes, I just don't want a THIRD cloned Final Smash. That's really annoying.

I agree. Though if a Star Fox character was going to get a new Final Smash, it was more feasible for Falco to get an Arwing version of Z.S.S.'s new one. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I find it unlikely at this point.
Honestly, as much as I loved Lucas's (and Wario's... and Ganondorf's) changes in P:M, we all know it isn't going to happen. His differentiated aerials, throws, and smashes are good enough for me.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Japan hates cuts in Smash Bros. more then they hate Mother 3.

 

[Wintropy]

I'm curious as to why Ninty would tease Mother 3 like that and then just publicly refuse to talk about it. Either they're totally and utterly dulled to death at people requesting it or they've got something up their magical wizards' sleeves.

I'm not going to hold my breath or anything, but it's intriguing nevertheless.

 

[PSIBoy]

People said fan outcry would bring back Mewtwo and Roy.
It's only brought back Mewtwo, and that's mainly because there was more than just fan outcry in his favor.

It may bring Wolf back with assistance from the new Star Fox game making the series not "dead", but I have extreme doubts about Lucas being anything other than the "new Roy".

I'd say the only two things that can save Lucas at this point is a Mother 3 VC release and/or Sakurai bias. But hey, I could be wrong or maybe they'd actually release Mother 3 worldwide... I'm grasping at straws at this point, aren't I? Nothing wrong with that though, right?

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

If Lucas was partially programmed he might return on the sole basis of being easy to bring back with a notable audience that would snatch him up. He'd be DLC for the exact same demographic his largest audience is comprised of. The Mother fanbase is something, but if he's known for anything it's Smash, considering how much larger that audience is. He'd sell pretty well and wouldn't conceivably be difficult to bring back. So he might not show up as DLC, but business wise it would make sense.

Though I imagine Wolf is likelier.

 

[Lilfut]

Speaking as someone who used to be in the Cave Story fandom - if they localized Mother 3, and gave it a new translation, everyone would whine. Everyone.

 

[Dizzy_Fool]

Speaking as someone who used to be in the Cave Story fandom - if they localized Mother 3, and gave it a new translation, everyone would whine. Everyone.

That's simply not true.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm curious as to why Ninty would tease Mother 3 like that and then just publicly refuse to talk about it. Either they're totally and utterly dulled to death at people requesting it or they've got something up their magical wizards' sleeves.

I'm not going to hold my breath or anything, but it's intriguing nevertheless.

It is Robot Chicken though. If anything, I don't think it was really a tease, just having fun with the jokes people bring up when it comes to Nintendo.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd say the only two things that can save Lucas at this point is a Mother 3 VC release and/or Sakurai bias. But hey, I could be wrong or maybe they'd actually release Mother 3 worldwide... I'm grasping at straws at this point, aren't I? Nothing wrong with that though, right?

I'd say only the former would help, especially if it was a worldwide release. Sakurai's "bias" didn't help him stay, after all.

 

[PSIBoy]

If Lucas was partially programmed he might return on the sole basis of being easy to bring back with a notable audience that would snatch him up. He'd be DLC for the exact same demographic his largest audience is comprised of. The Mother fanbase is something, but if he's known for anything it's Smash, considering how much larger that audience is. He'd sell pretty well and wouldn't conceivably be difficult to bring back. So he might not show up as DLC, but business wise it would make sense.

Though I imagine Wolf is likelier.

I agree. Wolf is not only from a bigger, more popular franchise, he has his own, large fanbase mainly from StarFox. Lucas, in the other hand, seems to be mainly liked in his SSBB appearance, and I know a lot of people didn't like him leaving Ness for dead, even though it is kind of human nature to run when in full panic.

I'd say only the former would help, especially if it was a worldwide release. Sakurai's "bias" didn't help him stay, after all.

True, but I think it may have helped a bit. Not bashing , after all, he was just a last-minute addition to buff the roster, but I think there could've been better canidates, like perhaps Blood Falcon or something. But, yeah. Sakurai bias is not likely to help. I hope for a surprise VC release, even if I kind of doubt it's going to happen.