Character Discussion Thread

[Lilfut]

I straight-up don't get the appeal of a new DK rep, but then I hate the whole DK "subseries" so I guess that's just on me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What don't you get specifically @ Lilfut ?

 

[BKupa666]

Yeah, playing as series icons is so awesome.

 

[Bowserlick]

Ice Climbers and a DK rep seem like high priority to me after Mewtwo.

Honestly, Lucas seems unnecessary. Ness has his specials and his normals don't provide anything mind-blowing to the game.

Wolf seems better than Ness, but not really necessary. I think a reworked Wolf with moves that give him forward momentum and movement to compensate a slow natural mobility would be neat. Therefore, Wolf would be at top speed when on the attack. Yet, he would have defensive options such as his slow laser.

 

[PSIBoy]

Ice Climbers and a DK rep seem like high priority to me after Mewtwo.

Honestly, Lucas seems unnecessary. Ness has his specials and his normals don't provide anything mind-blowing to the game.

Wolf seems better than Ness, but not really necessary. I think a reworked Wolf with moves that give him forward momentum and movement to compensate a slow natural mobility would be neat. Therefore, Wolf would be at top speed when on the attack. Yet, he would have defensive options such as his slow laser.

Look at PM. They pretty much changed up half the cast to make them 'unique' and whatnot. Nintendo could totally change up Lucas's special moveset a bit. Besides Ness's custom moves are honestly useless. Plus, Lucas's Up-Smash is actually supposed to be his signature move. I honestly feel it's pretty mind-blowing myself. In short, Lucas playes far differently than Ness, and Sakurai can easily change one or two of Lucas's special moves. Look at Pit, three of his got changed. Also, I think your idea with Wolf would be pretty neat.

 

[Pazzo.]

Do we honestly expect Sakurai to put the ICs in when we know that they won't work on the 3DS version?

 

[PSIBoy]

Do we honestly expect Sakurai to put the ICs in when we know that they won't work on the 3DS version?

If they can make them work on the 3DS, then it is a high possibility. If not, which seems to be the most likely scenareo, I do not expect them to nor will they.

 

[Deleted member]

Do we honestly expect Sakurai to put the ICs in when we know that they won't work on the 3DS version?

Let them dream, Mask.
Let them dream.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Do we honestly expect Sakurai to put the ICs in when we know that they won't work on the 3DS version?

No I don't. And that's just sad, considering they worked perfectly fine on the Wii U version.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Let them dream, Mask.
Let them dream.

It is a huge disappointment that the 3DS version kept this game from being the best that it could be.

 

[Deleted member]

It is a huge disappointment that the 3DS version kept this game from being the best that it could be.

I'm not personally attached to the Ice Grabbers, so it doesn't really affect me.

 

[Burruni]

Do we honestly expect Sakurai to put the ICs in when we know that they won't work on the 3DS version?

Pardon me if I have my information wrong, but here is my understanding of what happened based on Sakurai's interview.

1. Ice Climbers worked without noticable issue on WiiU
2. Functioning Ice Climbers, much like transformation characters (Zelda/Sheik, Samus/ZSS, Pokemon Trainer) or the functions of Olimar was an issue that the team was struggling to overcome.
3. To prevent time being "wasted" on trying to find a way around the issue with the deadline coming ever closer, Sakurai moved to cut the characters he hand-chose to be NES reps and still have a unique gameplay style no matter how similar at a glance RosaLuma is.

Now that the issue of that deadline has been, more or less, lifted, Ice Climbers may become a side project to finish out on how to fix for 3DS without causing lag.

 

[Deleted member]

The big question here is if Sakurai got the Climbers to work on the Wii U before or after 8-Player Smash was implemented.

There's an itch in the back of my mind that tells me that the 8-Player Smash is going to be used as Wii U's version of the "3DS Limitations" excuse.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The big question here is if Sakurai got the Climbers to work on the Wii U before or after 8-Player Smash was implemented.

There's an itch in the back of my mind that tells me that the 8-Player Smash is going to be used as Wii U's version of the "3DS Limitations" excuse.

I doubt it, honestly, 8-Player Smash was probably planned from the beginning so he probably had to make sure all characters worked before he would implement it. This is all in assumption that Smash Wii U was the prioritized smash game, which I believe is the case.

 

[Pazzo.]

Let them dream, Mask.
Let them dream.

Hey, I'd be a dreamer too if I wasn't a realist.

 

[Deleted member]

I doubt it, honestly, 8-Player Smash was probably planned from the beginning so he probably had to make sure all characters worked before he would implement it. This is all in assumption that Smash Wii U was the prioritized smash game, which I believe is the case.

I don't think either game was more "priority" than the other. Just the level of content is far greater in the Wii U version due to having more processing power and data space.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think either game was more "priority" than the other. Just the level of content is far greater in the Wii U version due to having more processing power and data space.

That doesn't really explain why all trailers and, for the most part, screenshots were mostly dependent on the Wii U version. I don't know, but it seems like Smash 3DS was rushed, severely, compared to what we're seeing from the Wii U version.

 

[Deleted member]

That doesn't really explain why all trailers and, for the most part, screenshots were mostly dependent on the Wii U version. I don't know, but it seems like Smash 3DS was rushed, severely, compared to what we're seeing from the Wii U version.

Because Smash Wii U looks better? Be honest here, if you were in charge of showing off the game, would you not focus heavily on the more aesthetically pleasing of the two?

Most of what we've seen exclusive to the Wii U version cannot be replicated on the 3DS. With that in mind, it's less that the 3DS version was "rushed" and more that the Wii U is capable of more.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Because Smash Wii U looks better? Be honest here, if you were in charge of showing off the game, would you not focus heavily on the more aesthetically pleasing of the two?

Most of what we've seen exclusive to the Wii U version cannot be replicated on the 3DS. With that in mind, it's less that the 3DS version was "rushed" and more that the Wii U is capable of more.

It was just an opinion, my friend, I think it feels rushed, personally. Didn't mean to make you feel as if I was attacking you in any way if I did, but I agree I would show off the Wii U version, even still everything in the 3DS version seems, somehow, in my opinion, rushed

 

[AEMehr]

Do we honestly expect Sakurai to put the ICs in when we know that they won't work on the 3DS version?

I'm just hoping we get a redesigned soPo with soNa as an alt ala Olimar and Alph. Most of the assets were probably already made, so I would imagine less work would be put in them overall. Most of the work would go towards rebalancing the Climber, but the models and alts were probably already made. Most of the attack animations too. Not overly counting on it, but I think it's a plausible situation.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I really don't want the Ice Climbers to come back if they are going to lose their gimmick, I'd rather wait for the next Smash installment than to play Popo on his own.

 

[Wintropy]

I have no emotional attachment to the Icies, so I can't really say much, but I don't see any reason why Sakurai and the dev team can't or won't at least try to get them working now that they've got the time and patience to do it. A little bit of extra effort and endeavour here and there can work wonders with these sorts of things.

 

[Deleted member]

It was just an opinion, my friend, I think it feels rushed, personally. Didn't mean to make you feel as if I was attacking you in any way if I did, but I agree I would show off the Wii U version, even still everything in the 3DS version seems, somehow, in my opinion, rushed

I didn't mean to make you feel as if you were attacking me.
I just try to apply thought provocation when I debate.

 

[Kriven]

Can somebody provide a link to where Sakurai stated transformation characters were removed due to 3DS limitations?

 

[Deleted member]

Can somebody provide a link to where Sakurai stated transformation characters were removed due to 3DS limitations?

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/10/01/zelda-sheik-different-characters-super-smash-bros-3ds/?

 

[AEMehr]

Can somebody provide a link to where Sakurai stated transformation characters were removed due to 3DS limitations?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=character transformations removed due to 3DS limitations Smash Bros

Darn you, Golden.

 

[Ffamran]

Can somebody provide a link to where Sakurai stated transformation characters were removed due to 3DS limitations?

Considering the Wii is stronger than the 3DS, but had that much frame drops with transformation characters and that the Wii U is about a step up from a PS3, but even current consoles (PS4 and Xbox One) and sometimes even the PC has issues - whenever a developer goes photo-realism crazy (Crysis games), extremely poor ports (Watch_Dogs), and games that are exclusively on PC and has extreme graphics settings (Star Citizen) -, it's not a surprise that it was removed.

Hell, I wouldn't doubt that if SSB4 was only for Wii U, it wouldn't have been removed. I don't know what sorcery was pulled on Melee, but I'm going to say that as more games become more complex and detailed, transformations won't be coming back until there's a way to streamline them and that they affect almost little on the game.

Fire effects which are part of particle effects still tax systems today. Early PS3 games were notorious for using the previous gen's fire effects and even then, those effects on PC can be taxing especially if it's a bad port. inFAMOUS: Second Son focuses on particle effects and with an open-world, was barely able to get a stable 30 FPS before the DLC which was able to get 40 FPS and a patch won't happen since it'd be about 10GB to fix everything in the main game.

There is a way, however, to make them less taxing, but it requires time. Ever noticed that "low" settings on recent games look way much better than an older game's "high" settings. Or that ports will barely run at low, but its sequel or recent games run damn well on medium or high, especially if it's an indie game. Games evolve, but it takes time.

Art style is also a factor. SSB sort of goes for a pseudo-realism look which Brawl took to an extreme and compromised badly with gameplay. Now, if SSB followed 64's look of cel-shaded and cartoon-y, transformations would probably stay - it'd definitely stay if everyone looked like Mr. Game & Watch - or return more quickly, but the 64 could have been called "realistic" since, well, if you played old games like Super Mario Bros. or Ocarina of Time when it was released, then you'd know why it so amazing at that time.

I don't know how advanced systems will be when SSB5 is announced, so I'll stay skeptical until then. Even raw data won't do much. Some devs can pull of cool things like what Naughty Dog, Kojima Productions, and Nintendo with "weak" systems, while others just struggle or (are forced to) artificially make games taxing. Look at what Activision, Ubisoft, and EA are doing with recent games: leaving audio files uncompressed to make them look "big", leaving games unoptimized so it seems "next-gen" when in reality they're just horrible ports, and some other stuff. Then you look back at Monolith Soft's Xenoblade Chronicles and you have to give merit; they made an open-world game with a system barely stronger than an Xbox. Or you can look here and see how SSB is possible on any system while staying true to a SSB game - it's not some touchpad, art, washed down rip off, but a SSB on a handheld.

 

[Bowserlick]

I say the Ice Climbers could be brought back with a different mechanic.

Nana and Popo could be tied together with their bungee cord. One would be controlled, but because they would be two models with their own weight yet tied together with an elastic cord the Ice Climbers would be able to do cool momentum shifting tricks.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I say the Ice Climbers could be brought back with a different mechanic.

Nana and Popo could be tied together with their bungee cord. One would be controlled, but because they would be two models with their own weight yet tied together with an elastic cord the Ice Climbers would be able to do cool momentum shifting tricks.

I say its possible but it most likely isn't going to happen. Ice Climbers play in a specific way and Sakurai doesn't like changing characters up too much.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I still think that the Ice Climbers are entirely possible.

I'd say that Sakurai just decided that, after a certain point, it would be best to just finish the game without the Ice Climbers rather than delay it just to get a single character in. But with DLC, there is no deadline to meet. Since I'm sure that Mewtwo isn't going to be the only one, it's not far fetched to think that they would continue tinkering with the Ice Climbers as well.

Generally speaking, the lost veterans would probably be the first characters worked on. It just depends on who they want back.

 

[BKupa666]

ICs are a complete longshot IMO. If there were any easy way to salvage them, I think it'd have already been done in the main game. Ditto with Ridley, for the few people out there still thinking he's got a chance.

(Of course, the obvious choice is just to keep them as they were on the Wii U, but oh no, upsetting their fans on two systems is better than upsetting their fans on one system).

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I still think that the Ice Climbers are entirely possible.

I'd say that Sakurai just decided that, after a certain point, it would be best to just finish the game without the Ice Climbers rather than delay it just to get a single character in. But with DLC, there is no deadline to meet. Since I'm sure that Mewtwo isn't going to be the only one, it's not far fetched to think that they would continue tinkering with the Ice Climbers as well.

Generally speaking, the lost veterans would probably be the first characters worked on. It just depends on who they want back.

I still think this as well personally I believe these 3 are coming (not because I am biased or anything :3)
But they weren't top priority to be ready for the release I think it would make no sense not to bring them back

 

[BravadoMan_13]

While I didn't play as the as much, it sucks to see them get the axe. I feel for those of you who were mains of them or straight up liked the characters.

D-K, DK Rep
D-K, DK Rep is here!!

 

[Burruni]

Legitimately, I've been trying to observe the various chats these past few weeks. In no particular order, here are who I believe are the group consensus "Top 10" for Non-Confirmed DLC
1:
2:
3:
4: Bandanna Dee
5: Chorus Men/Glee Club
6: Dixie Kong
7: King K. Rool
8: Isaac
9: Inkling
10:
[Honorable] 11:

 

[BluePikmin11]

Chorus Kids are barely talked about in predictions nowadays.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Legitimately, I've been trying to observe the various chats these past few weeks. In no particular order, here are who I believe are the group consensus "Top 10" for Non-Confirmed DLC
1:
2:
3:
4: Bandanna Dee
5: Chorus Men/Glee Club
6: Dixie Kong
7: King K. Rool
8: Isaac
9: Inkling
10:
[Honorable] 11:

Yeah, I think K. Rool should be, at least, above Bandana Dee, and Snake should be, at least, in the top 10. From what I've seen, anyway.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Chorus Kids are barely talked about in predictions nowadays.

Too be fair though everyone there was popular before any leaks (maybe Bandana Dee being the exception)
But chorus kids....... people only cried out for them only after Gematsu.

 

[Burruni]

Yeah, I think K. Rool should be, at least, above Bandana Dee, and Snake should be, at least, in the top 10. From what I've seen, anyway.

1) I boldfaced and underlined the phrase "In no particular order" for a reason. I don't know how to make it any more clear to people.
2) 3rd Party DLC. I've stated my issue against it.

Chorus Kids are barely talked about in predictions nowadays.

Too be fair though everyone there was popular before any leaks (maybe Bandana Dee being the exception)
But chorus kids....... people only cried out for them only after Gematsu.

1) BanD was actually talked about a fair bit pre-release (within the top 5 or top 10 of threads) but only recently he's being more noticed.
2) Probably a bit of personal bias. But also their other rival for being that Top 10 that isn't third party is... Ray. At least we have Rhythm Heaven content to say that the series has been looked at. Ridley fans clung to the point of that shadow meaning he wasn't a boss but teasing a playable character, RH fans cling to the Sneaky Spirit being the only Smash Run enemy without a connect-able fighter besides the Polar Bear whom is tied to a cut character.

 

[False Sense]

Chorus Kids are barely talked about in predictions nowadays.

Well, why should they be? No one even considered them before the Gematsu leak came around and everyone proclaimed them as shoo-ins. Now that they're not on the final roster, and considering that they are a trio of characters (which may pose the same difficulties the Ice Climbers had) and that there really isn't much demand for them to begin with, there's not much of a reason to think that they'll be DLC at this point.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

1) I boldfaced and underlined the phrase "In no particular order" for a reason. I don't know how to make it any more clear to people.
2) 3rd Party DLC. I've stated my issue against it.



1) BanD was actually talked about a fair bit pre-release (within the top 5 or top 10 of threads) but only recently he's being more noticed.
2) Probably a bit of personal bias. But also their other rival for being that Top 10 that isn't third party is... Ray. At least we have Rhythm Heaven content to say that the series has been looked at. Ridley fans clung to the point of that shadow meaning he wasn't a boss but teasing a playable character, RH fans cling to the Sneaky Spirit being the only Smash Run enemy without a connect-able fighter besides the Polar Bear whom is tied to a cut character.

I apologize, I overlooked "In no particular order", but I was more or less stressing MY opinion on the matter, I was in no way trying to attack you. I was stressing more that, Snake should be in the top 10, I think, I've seen a good bit of support for him.