Character Discussion Thread

[theenlightenedone]

I am not against Ray. I am against "I think xxx is likely because I think he/she is cool."

I wasn't saying Ray for those reason but listed off a whole bunch of really good reasons.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

SO HOW ABOUT THAT FAKE GAMESTOP HOAX? PRETTY CRAZY RIGHT?

 

[ChronoBound]

I wasn't saying Ray for those reason but listed off a whole bunch of really good reasons.

Your "good reasons" are pretty much "I think he's likely", "he is from a new series", and "MOVESET POTENTIAL", which are all poor reasons.

 

[Geno Boost]

Geno is owned by Square Enix, Geno has only made a cameo from a game that was released 11 years ago, that's hardly a merit
20 characters more important than Geno
1. King Boo 2. Kamek 3. Kammy Koopa 4. Lubba 5. Petey Piranha 6. Professor Egad 7. Pianta 8. Toad 9. Toadette 10. Daisy
11. Fawful 12. Boom boom 13. Pom Pom 14. Waluigi 15. Birdo 16. Nabbit 17. Dry Bowser 18. Toadsworth 19. Honey Queen 20. King Bob Omb
It wasn't so hard

It doesn't matter if he was old.

The most charcters are deconfirmed and the most are just going to be boring fighters and nobody care about them

 

[JaidynReiman]

That...was @ ChronoBound that got all that information beforehand as well.....

Lol... That's weird, did Chronobound look up more info and find that Dixie has more requests now?

SO HOW ABOUT THAT FAKE GAMESTOP HOAX? PRETTY CRAZY RIGHT?

What Gamestop hoax?

Your "good reasons" are pretty much "I think he's likely", "he is from a new series", and "MOVESET POTENTIAL", which are all poor reasons.

Well, moveset potential is a good reason, as is a new franchise. However, with Sakurai's statements, it would rely heavily on Custom Robo getting a new game, and based on the fact that the franchise sales are mediocre and there hasn't been a game since before Brawl, that doesn't seem likely at all...


Of course you disagree on GS, but GS is definitely more likely to have a new game in development right now, the first two games sold way better, and Isaac is far more requested in general than Custom Robo. Plus, GS1/2 are actually being added to the eShop, which Custom Robo doesn't even have at this point.



The other odd thing about GS is that there has been a GS game since Brawl. Even though it didn't sell well, its not something that should force Sakurai to drop all references to the franchise all-together. Custom Robo, on the other hand, hasn't had a new game since before Brawl, in fact, the franchise was much more "recent" in both Melee and Brawl.

 

[theenlightenedone]

SO HOW ABOUT THAT FAKE GAMESTOP HOAX? PRETTY CRAZY RIGHT?

???

Your "good reasons" are pretty much "I think he's likely", "he is from a new series", and "MOVESET POTENTIAL", which are all poor reasons.

I said a lot more than that look at my previous posts.

Lol... That's weird, did Chronobound look up more info and find that Dixie has more requests now?



What Gamestop hoax?




Well, moveset potential is a good reason, as is a new franchise. However, with Sakurai's statements, it would rely heavily on Custom Robo getting a new game, and based on the fact that the franchise sales are mediocre and there hasn't been a game since before Brawl, that doesn't seem likely at all...


Of course you disagree on GS, but GS is definitely more likely to have a new game in development right now, the first two games sold way better, and Isaac is far more requested in general than Custom Robo. Plus, GS1/2 are actually being added to the eShop, which Custom Robo doesn't even have at this point.



The other odd thing about GS is that there has been a GS game since Brawl. Even though it didn't sell well, its not something that should force Sakurai to drop all references to the franchise all-together. Custom Robo, on the other hand, hasn't had a new game since before Brawl, in fact, the franchise was much more "recent" in both Melee and Brawl.

forget relevance wouldn't he still be a great addition?

 

[ChronoBound]

Lol... That's weird, did Chronobound look up more info and find that Dixie has more requests now?

Well, moveset potential is a good reason, as is a new franchise. However, with Sakurai's statements, it would rely heavily on Custom Robo getting a new game, and based on the fact that the franchise sales are mediocre and there hasn't been a game since before Brawl, that doesn't seem likely at all...


Of course you disagree on GS, but GS is definitely more likely to have a new game in development right now, the first two games sold way better, and Isaac is far more requested in general than Custom Robo. Plus, GS1/2 are actually being added to the eShop, which Custom Robo doesn't even have at this point.


The other odd thing about GS is that there has been a GS game since Brawl. Even though it didn't sell well, its not something that should force Sakurai to drop all references to the franchise all-together. Custom Robo, on the other hand, hasn't had a new game since before Brawl, in fact, the franchise was much more "recent" in both Melee and Brawl.

Yeah, Dixie became higher as Tropical Freeze's release got closer and got more exposure. Keep in mind DKC3 sold well over a million copies in Japan (I think close to two million), so Dixie definitely has a lot of exposure.

As for Golden Sun, I already said I am not optimistic on Isaac (or any GS character getting in) unless Camelot is making Golden Sun 4. As you mentioned, the fact that Isaac was among the most requested characters on the Western side of things AND actually did receive a new installment after Brawl's release (released around the same time as Pokemon Black/White and Spirit Tracks both of which received stages based off of them in Smash 4 3DS), is very disconcerting.

As for your last statement about Custom Robo, here is something to wrap your head around for how long the hiatus has actually been. When Brawl was released, the Custom Robo series was eight years old. It has now been eight years since the last installment to the franchise has been released.

I said a lot more than that look at my previous posts.

Not really.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

What Gamestop hoax?

???

The 10 year old girl that beat all the Smash players was an actress. It was pretty obvious but, still, allot of people believed it.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The other odd thing about GS is that there has been a GS game since Brawl. Even though it didn't sell well, its not something that should force Sakurai to drop all references to the franchise all-together. Custom Robo, on the other hand, hasn't had a new game since before Brawl, in fact, the franchise was much more "recent" in both Melee and Brawl.

Yeah the content shouldn't be dropped (and it's already not the case), but it's not enough to justify Isaac's inclusion to Sakurai.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hey, @ ChronoBound , do you find it weird that both Isaac and Ray's assist trophies were cut, or do you think there was just reasoning behind them not appearing as assists? (This is all in assumption that they aren't still hidden in the Wii U version)

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hey, @ ChronoBound , do you find it weird that both Isaac and Ray's assist trophies were cut, or do you think there was just reasoning behind them not appearing as assists? (This is all in assumption that they aren't still hidden in the Wii U version)

I personally think it has to do with the both the series' currently bad position (Custom Robo being absent on recent installments, and you all know what I refer to when it comes Isaac's chances, DD.)

 

[ChronoBound]

Hey, @ ChronoBound , do you find it weird that both Isaac and Ray's assist trophies were cut, or do you think there was just reasoning behind them not appearing as assists? (This is all in assumption that they aren't still hidden in the Wii U version)

Not really. I do think its possible they possibly show up as trophies in Smash 4 considering how much of Smash 4's content is copy/pasted from Brawl.

I do find it weird how Barbara had a trophy, yet she didn't reprise her role as an Assist Trophy despite there being a new Band Bros. game having been released on the 3DS. It seems like all of the unlockable trophies from Brawl with the exceptions of Shadow and Infantry & Tanks did not return for Smash 4. I am trying to think of other Assist Trophy cuts from Brawl outside of the unlockables and the others that come to mind are Excite Bikes, that copter, and Jill.

There were really quite a bit of cuts on the Assist Trophy side of things.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I personally think it has to do with the both the series' currently bad position (Custom Robo being absent on recent installments, and you all know what I refer to when it comes Isaac's chances, DD.)

What was wrong with Dark Dawn? I'm honestly curious.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In general, it was the worst-selling GS installment in the series and got very mixed reviews in the critic department.

 

[ChronoBound]

What was wrong with Dark Dawn? I'm honestly curious.

Dark Dawn was supposedly weaker in terms of quality versus its GBA predecessors and sold a lot less.

However, I don't really think that is a good reason to shut out all Golden Sun content considering the fact that most of Metroid's content in Smash 4 is based off of Other M, which is far more vilified and more notable of a sales failure than Dark Dawn was.

 

[JaidynReiman]

What was wrong with Dark Dawn? I'm honestly curious.

Mostly that Dark Dawn had too many "points of no return" with no warning that lock you out of content. As a whole, the game was quite good, it wasn't a bad game at all. It just wasn't as good as the first two. Other complaints are that it doesn't really resolve the plots that it established.

In general, it was the worst-selling GS installment in the series and got very mixed reviews in the critic department.

Lol, mixed/mediocre reviews... lol!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sun:_Dark_Dawn#Reception


The game was well praised. It was the worst selling GS game, but it wasn't given "bad" or even "mediocre" reviews by any means. The main problem is, it wasn't as good as the first two and there were a few problems with certain areas.

Dark Dawn was supposedly weaker in terms of quality versus its GBA predecessors and sold a lot less.

However, I don't really think that is a good reason to shut out all Golden Sun content considering the fact that most of Metroid's content in Smash 4 is based off of Other M, which is far more vilified and more notable of a sales failure than Dark Dawn was.

Exactly. In fact, Dark Dawn is far more praised than Metroid: Other M is. Its not as good as the first two, it has a few glaring issues, but its not a bad game by any means.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

In general, it was the worst-selling GS installment in the series and got very mixed reviews in the critic department.

I thought it sold well over a million, less than the previous 2 sure, but not that bad, I don't think Xenoblade even surpassed it, did it?

 

[JaidynReiman]

I thought it sold well over a million, less than the previous 2 sure, but not that bad, I don't think Xenoblade even surpassed it, did it?

If it sold over a million, we wouldn't be questioning Golden Sun's future. According to VGChartz, it sold 700k. And VGChartz is usually inaccurate, so I'd bet it probably only sold around 500k at best.

 

[BluePikmin11]

]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Sun:_Dark_Dawn#Reception

Hmm... weird.. I've been hearing a lot about the mixed reviews, guess I can't really trust the internet with this kind of stuff.
But I have played through Dark Dawn, and it is definitely pretty average, and it gets really boring at times, especially with the long dialogue.

 

[AEMehr]

Yeah, but in general, the cannonballs and crown toss don't provide an overall interesting move set.

K. Rool's got a bit more than that in his arsenal, but you could just read his topic to learn more about why he's a fitting unique character choice.

The 10 year old girl that beat all the Smash players was an actress. It was pretty obvious but, still, allot of people believed it.

This is the official character discussion, anything not regarding characters should be in the social topic in the main 3DS and Wii U forums.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I already know in general what K. Rool fans suggest for a moveset, I go to the K. Rool thread pretty often, and so far no one has really sold me.

 

[JaidynReiman]

K. Rool's got a bit more than that in his arsenal, but you could just read his topic to learn more about why he's a fitting unique character choice.
This is the official character discussion, anything not regarding characters should be in the social topic in the main 3DS and Wii U forums.

I was going to write up a huge response to that but I got tired of it. Thank you for posting that. The movesets section is very important; there's about 20 different movesets in there, and BKupa even wrote out individual movesets for EACH of his different forms, while most go and and include references to all of his forms. Plus, K. Rool's cannonballs work way different from Bowser Jr.'s and he can also shoot out different kinds of things from his Blunderbuss, too.

 

[AEMehr]

I already know in general what K. Rool fans suggest for a moveset, I go to the K. Rool thread pretty often, and so far no one has really sold me.

Well just because it doesn't wet your appetite doesn't mean it's nothing unique.

 

[Arcadenik]

Your "good reasons" are pretty much "I think he's likely", "he is from a new series", and "MOVESET POTENTIAL", which are all poor reasons.

IMO, good reasons include those as well as how financially successful their respective games/franchises are/were in the gaming market and how popular these characters are.

Have you noticed that the SSB4 newcomers are from games that sold millions?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well just because it doesn't wet your appetite doesn't mean it's nothing unique.

It's unique, but it's far from really unique.

 

[Arcadenik]

I already know in general what K. Rool fans suggest for a moveset, I go to the K. Rool thread pretty often, and so far no one has really sold me.

The Toad fans also haven't really sold you either. We are still working on that.

 

[JaidynReiman]

IMO, good reasons include those as well as how financially successful their respective games/franchises are/were in the gaming market and how popular these characters are.

Have you noticed that the SSB4 newcomers are from games that sold millions?

Well, most sold just over a million. Wii Fit and Animal Crossing has sold millions, while Kid Icarus: Uprising, Punch Out Wii and Fire Emblem: Awakening sold just over a million, and Xenoblade Chronicles sold just under a million. Isaac and King K. Rool also fit the bill, as GS1/2 sold about 3 million together and the DK franchise has about 55 million lifetime sales (granted, K. Rool did not appear in Returns/TF). The last DK games K. Rool/Isaac appeared in did not sell well, but earlier games did.


Compared to Custom Robo, which, unfortunately, never hit it off very well... Advance Wars, despite being a long-running franchise, hasn't done nearly as well as FE, and FE was a bit mediocre overall as well until Awakening.

 

[AEMehr]

It's unique, but it's far from really unique.

Well then I guess your standards for "unique" vary from those others have. As long as the character plays in a "unique" fashion that differs from an existing playable character, they should be then granted that "unique" status.

I see it that way, at the very least. You don't have to be balls to the wall completely different in every way possible, like say Olimar or the Inkling (assuming the Inkling's moveset would be heavily dependent in covering areas in Ink and using that to their advantage or something). As long as you were built in a different way from other fighters, you're unique to me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Someone who is really unique is a character who is able to provide a diverse playstyle from the get-go.
For example, Inkling is able to provide instant uniqueness with the paint-gun and squid-transformation playstyle just from looking at the basic gameplay.

K. Rool is a bit harder to form a really interesting moveset, due to not having anything that really sells from the start.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

IMO, good reasons include those as well as how financially successful their respective games/franchises are/were in the gaming market and how popular these characters are.

Have you noticed that the SSB4 newcomers are from games that sold millions?

No. I haven't noticed that because that's not quite true.

Heck Xenoblade didn't even break one million.


And Blue, you main Dark Pit....

I don't think you care about uniqueness as much as you let on. I think you just enjoy going against the grain for the sake of going against the grain.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

K. Rool is a bit harder to form a really interesting moveset, due to not having anything that really sells from the start.

Well, thats one big questions thats hard to answer for any character. What's the start?

For Bowser Jr, everyone assumed it was the paintbrush, we got clown car.

For Rosalina, it was just simple galaxy stuff, we got luma.

For Duck Hunt, it was just Duck hunt, we got Zapper as a whole.

I don't really think it's fair to judge from the "start." Sakurai can clearly go beyond that.

 

[False Sense]

Someone who is really unique is a character who is able to provide a diverse playstyle from the get-go.
For example, Inkling is able to provide instant uniqueness with the paint-gun and squid-transformation playstyle just from looking at the basic gameplay.

K. Rool is a bit harder to form a really interesting moveset, due to not having anything that really sells from the start.

I don't know, couldn't you say the same thing about someone like Greninja? I mean, he's basically Sheik with water abilities; he's unique, but not by much. If that was good enough for Sakurai, I think K. Rool's potential would be as well.

 

[Arcadenik]

No. I haven't noticed that because that's not quite true.

Heck Xenoblade didn't even break one million.

So... why did they get in then?

I mean, Kid Icarus was apparently dead for 20+ years before being revived with Uprising and it sold pretty well for a dead franchise.

I heard Fire Emblem Awakening saved the Fire Emblem franchise... maybe that's why it got a character and a last minute clone?

And didn't Operation Rainfall demand that Xenoblade Chronicles go international... and it sold pretty well considering it was sold exclusively in GameStop stores or something?

 

[Bowserlick]

I can see King K. Rool as the only character that can custom his specials in battle (but without an option before battle).

Down B is costume switch. The normal move-set remains identical, but the other three specials change. The costumes are King, Captain and Baron.

 

[False Sense]

And Blue, you main Dark Pit....

I don't think you care about uniqueness as much as you let on. I think you just enjoy going against the grain for the sake of going against the grain.

I think Blue stated as much before; he supports characters that are generally viewed as less likely and aren't as popular as more prominent candidates, especially if he thinks the character in question has unique potential (in other words, characters like Dr. Kawashima, Tom Nook, Zoroark, and Anna). Though he also made it clear that he also supports characters that he views as inevitable (such as Chrom and Dixie Kong) and doesn't support characters that could get in over them, even if they're more "unique" (such as Robin and King K. Rool).

So... why did they get in then?

I mean, Kid Icarus was apparently dead for 20+ years before being revived with Uprising and it sold pretty well for a dead franchise.

I heard Fire Emblem Awakening saved the Fire Emblem franchise... maybe that's why it got a character and a last minute clone?

And didn't Operation Rainfall demand that Xenoblade Chronicles go international... and it sold pretty well considering it was sold exclusively in GameStop stores or something?

Well, I mean, I don't think you have to sell over a million copies for the game to be successful and to have a big impact.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Here's another go at this

S tier
Mewtwo

A tier
Wolf, Krystal, Inkling

B tier
King K Rool, Dixie Kong, Project STEAM rep, Sceptile

C tier
Isaac, Impa

LOL Tier
Mask Link, Tails, Bandana Dee

Yup, finally took Lana off.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't understand why people are considering Splatoon and Project STEAM for SSB4 DLC? Those games aren't even out and people are already hoping or expecting characters for Smash? Don't these games have to be popular with sales backing up said popularity (actions speak louder than words... so proclaiming that these games are the best on the Internet don't mean much unless there are tangible evidence that they are actually popular such as these games selling lots of copies) before Nintendo would consider including these characters in Smash?

 

[BluePikmin11]

He's obviously a last-minute clone Swamp, so that doesn't really count.
And I don' t care as much about uniqueness as much as I was back then, but I still can see what they offer in general in many aspects.

I don't know, couldn't you say the same thing about someone like Greninja? I mean, he's basically Sheik with water abilities; he's unique, but not by much. If that was good enough for Sakurai, I think K. Rool's potential would be as well.

Considering the fact that Pokemon has a wide array of unique characters and have their own criteria, I don't think you're really helping K. Rool's case.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So... why did they get in then?

I mean, Kid Icarus was apparently dead for 20+ years before being revived with Uprising and it sold pretty well for a dead franchise.

I heard Fire Emblem Awakening saved the Fire Emblem franchise... maybe that's why it got a character and a last minute clone?

And didn't Operation Rainfall demand that Xenoblade Chronicles go international... and it sold pretty well considering it was sold exclusively in GameStop stores or something?

Yeah. They all got in based on other criteria. But not everyone has to be a big Triple AAA million seller.

That's what I'm getting at.

He's obviously a last-minute clone Swamp, so that doesn't really count.
And I don' t care as much about uniqueness as much as I was back then, but I still can see what they offer in general in many aspects.

I'm not saying you should hate the guy or anything like that, I'm just saying, you mained while spouting this unique criteria. That just strikes me as odd....

And why not use a little imagination. You're selling K.Rool and yourself short and I think you're doing that intentionally. Your logic is also contradictory.... I mean...

Considering the fact that Pokemon has a wide array of unique characters and have their own criteria, I don't think you're really helping K. Rool's case.

This doesn't make sense at all...

 

[JaidynReiman]

I don't understand why people are considering Splatoon and Project STEAM for SSB4 DLC? Those games aren't even out and people are already hoping or expecting characters for Smash? Don't these games have to be popular with sales backing up said popularity (actions speak louder than words... so proclaiming that these games are the best on the Internet don't mean much unless there are tangible evidence that they are actually popular such as these games selling lots of copies) before Nintendo would consider including these characters in Smash?

That's what I've been trying to argue for a long time. I think there's a decent chance maybe Splatoon could make it in, but later down the road and not right away. Project STEAM looks far more iffy to me.