Character Discussion Thread

[Jason the Yoshi]

I don't understand why people are considering Splatoon and Project STEAM for SSB4 DLC? Those games aren't even out and people are already hoping or expecting characters for Smash? Don't these games have to be popular with sales backing up said popularity (actions speak louder than words... so proclaiming that these games are the best on the Internet don't mean much unless there are tangible evidence that they are actually popular such as these games selling lots of copies) before Nintendo would consider including these characters in Smash?

Maybe because Splatoon and Project STEAM need advertising, remember, Roy's first game was Melee, he would eventually appear in his game of origin later, so it's possible.

 

[Bowserlick]

Didn't Roy (the swordsman) help sell his game (that did not come out yet when he was in Smash?

If Nintendo thinks Splatoon will be popular, they could make fate by putting the character in the game.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

He's obviously a last-minute clone Swamp, so that doesn't really count.
And I don' t care as much about uniqueness as much as I was back then, but I still can see what they offer in general in many aspects.


Considering the fact that Pokemon has a wide array of unique characters and have their own criteria, I don't think you're really helping K. Rool's case.

What?!?!?!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's what I've been trying to argue for a long time. I think there's a decent chance maybe Splatoon could make it in, but later down the road and not right away. Project STEAM looks far more iffy to me.

Promotion is an iffy road. Usually people that use it are contradictory with their logic.

For example, Young Link is totally in because of MM 3D while Splatoon is too new. It's based on a lot of strange personal criteria, most of which don't really mean much.

I'd rather go back to the more traditional ways of thinking like what does the series have to offer.

Splatoon has a lot honestly. STEAM, maybe. Young Link, not so much. Regardless, promotion will not be the deciding factor.

 

[Arcadenik]

Maybe because Splatoon and Project STEAM need advertising, remember, Roy's first game was Melee, he would eventually appear in his game of origin later, so it's possible.

Roy was a last minute filler clone... he didn't take up much time nor resources. He's more of an afterthought who got free advertising.

Splatoon and Project STEAM characters would take up lots of time and resources... why would they do that just to advertise those games? What if people don't like those games? I mean, even the Fire Emblem fans don't like Roy after playing his game but hey, at least Roy's game wasn't a brand new IP but just another game of an already established popular IP.

 

[False Sense]

Promotion is an iffy road. Usually people that use it are contradictory.

It's already contradicted by the first DLC character, anyway. Mewtwo doesn't exactly promote anything in the near future; if promotion was so important, you'd think they'd go with a Pokemon character from Hoenn instead. But they didn't.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Roy was a last minute filler clone... he didn't take up much time nor resources. He's more of an afterthought who got free advertising.

Splatoon and Project STEAM characters would take up lots of time and resources... why would they do that just to advertise those games? What if people don't like those games? At least Roy's game wasn't a brand new IP but just another game of an already established popular IP.

That's why I"m thinking that they should wait a bit before making the characters from the series personally.

For example, let's say Splatoon launches in Feb. 2015. The game sells great and people love it. They ask for the Inkling in Smash.
Sakurai then makes the Inkling in Smash by August. Effectively promoting it while being safe about it.

I have no problem with new IPs made after Smash being DLC, but it's a tricky road.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Roy was a last minute filler clone... he didn't take up much time nor resources. He's more of an afterthought who got free advertising.

Splatoon and Project STEAM characters would take up lots of time and resources... why would they do that just to advertise those games? What if people don't like those games? I mean, even the Fire Emblem fans don't like Roy after playing his game but hey, at least Roy's game wasn't a brand new IP but just another game of an already established popular IP.

Well, I've already started to watch a lot of people rush for the excitement about Splatoon, and I'm a history buff, so I'm not too worried about them two getting ignored like that.

 

[Bowserlick]

Wii U is finally getting sales after two years. It is time to stop playing conservative. Nintendo already put alot of resources and advertisement into Splatoon. Put the damn character in the game.

Splatoon is perfectly made for Smash brothers.

 

[Arcadenik]

I still think that if Splatoon and Project STEAM sells well... I mean, really well like Pikmin was when it first came out in 2001, then I could see characters from those games getting in SSB5... they would have earned their keep and Nintendo would reward those franchises with characters in Smash... or at least Assist Trophies. Look at Wii Fit Trainer... no one asked for her but her franchise sold over 40 million units (20 million units per game) so Wii Fit got a character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'll probably explain the Pokémon crieria later. It's already late night over here, and I'm on slow internet.

 

[GunGunW]

I wonder if the DLC characters will get amiibos.

 

[Substitution]

I wonder if the DLC characters will get amiibos.

I would assume so, but not for a long time.

 

[theenlightenedone]

The 10 year old girl that beat all the Smash players was an actress. It was pretty obvious but, still, allot of people believed it.

What are you talking about

Well, most sold just over a million. Wii Fit and Animal Crossing has sold millions, while Kid Icarus: Uprising, Punch Out Wii and Fire Emblem: Awakening sold just over a million, and Xenoblade Chronicles sold just under a million. Isaac and King K. Rool also fit the bill, as GS1/2 sold about 3 million together and the DK franchise has about 55 million lifetime sales (granted, K. Rool did not appear in Returns/TF). The last DK games K. Rool/Isaac appeared in did not sell well, but earlier games did.


Compared to Custom Robo, which, unfortunately, never hit it off very well... Advance Wars, despite being a long-running franchise, hasn't done nearly as well as FE, and FE was a bit mediocre overall as well until Awakening.

Don't forget how smash bros. can boast sales and awareness and interest in a franchise.

Here's another go at this

S tier
Mewtwo

A tier
Wolf, Krystal, Inkling

B tier
King K Rool, Dixie Kong, Project Codename S.T.E.A.M. rep, Sceptile

C tier
Isaac, Impa

LOL Tier
Mask Link, Tails, Bandana Dee

Yup, finally took Lana off.

You forgot ray. Also the Project Codename S.T.E.A.M. would be Fleming.

I don't understand why people are considering Splatoon and Project STEAM for SSB4 DLC? Those games aren't even out and people are already hoping or expecting characters for Smash? Don't these games have to be popular with sales backing up said popularity (actions speak louder than words... so proclaiming that these games are the best on the Internet don't mean much unless there are tangible evidence that they are actually popular such as these games selling lots of copies) before Nintendo would consider including these characters in Smash?

This is the first time in smash we are getting DLC and have the possibility of it updating itself with new IPs and releases so ya people are considering Splatoon and STEAM for that very reason.

Well, thats one big questions thats hard to answer for any character. What's the start?

For Bowser Jr, everyone assumed it was the paintbrush, we got clown car.

For Rosalina, it was just simple galaxy stuff, we got luma.

For Duck Hunt, it was just Duck hunt, we got Zapper as a whole.

I don't really think it's fair to judge from the "start." Sakurai can clearly go beyond that.

Thats what I tell everybody when they say Andy would have to be in a tank and that it wouldn't work. Also maybe the tank could work if the Koopakart works? you never know how Sakurai will do it.

Also everybody don't forget King K. Rool would add another Villain to the roster which is another major reason for his addition.

 

[Kenith]

Also everybody don't forget King K. Rool would add another Villain to the roster which is another major reason for his addition.

A new villain and a new Donkey Kong character?
Seems like the opposite of what Sakurai would do.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You forgot ray. Also the Project Codename S.T.E.A.M. would be Fleming.

Who is Ray?

 

[theenlightenedone]

Who is Ray?

Ray from Custom Robo and the Codename Project S.T.E.A.M. rep would be Fleming.

 

[Kenith]

Who is Ray?

Mk III to be exact.

 

[theenlightenedone]

Mk III to be exact.

MK I or II or III doesn't matter any version would be ok but, I guess III is the most recent version.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Ray from Custom Robo and the Codename Project S.T.E.A.M. rep would be Fleming.

I do not think Custom Robo is really famous enough for playable smash representation.

 

[theenlightenedone]

I do not think Custom Robo is really famous enough for playable smash representation.

Ray is an equal to Isaac

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's unique, but it's far from really unique.

Someone who is really unique is a character who is able to provide a diverse playstyle from the get-go.
For example, Inkling is able to provide instant uniqueness with the paint-gun and squid-transformation playstyle just from looking at the basic gameplay.

K. Rool is a bit harder to form a really interesting moveset, due to not having anything that really sells from the start.

Let me get this straight. K.Rool isn't unique enough to get into Smash Bros., but Young Link is good enough to get in because he has a remake, yet is a 3rd Link, in otherwords something that goes against what you've said here? "able to provide a diverse playstyle from the getgo". Wut? Plus, that whole notion is subjective at best and places you in a very small minority.

Characters are based on source material. Are we supposed to ignore that? Selectively? We referenced Splatoon here and the source material, but we don't mention K.Rool's source material, so he's therefore not unique enough. That just seems strange to me, and frankly unfair.

If we're going to judge characters a certain way, they need to be judged consistently. We also need to cover all bases. Characters don't get in the game because of one thing. For example, if we're going to say that Tharja could get in as DLC because she has a fanbase, we need to add in other factors. Is she unique? (meh) Does she contribute to series balance? (double meh) Does the character make sense? Characters like Geno, Monster Hunter or others I've seen tossed around simply don't meet particular criteria.

Whether you think unique gameplay matters or not is irrelevant. It does. Quite a bit. Sakurai has mentioned it on a frequent basis, and DLC isn't like a group of last minute characters. They have time to work on them. They aren't going to just jam a bunch of clones into the game and call it a day. They COULD do a clone or two. I'm not going to deny it completely. But to go into this thread and say things like, "K.Rool isn't unique enough" and then say "I support Young Link as DLC" contradict one another a lot.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Ray is an equal to Isaac

I disagree with you. We just got Golden Sun on VC, and Custom Robo? Nothing.

Even still, I think Isaac has a piece of paper's chance of surviving in a dishwasher

 

[theenlightenedone]

Let me get this straight. K.Rool isn't unique enough to get into Smash Bros., but Young Link is good enough to get in because he has a remake, yet is a 3rd Link, in otherwords something that goes against what you've said here? "able to provide a diverse playstyle from the getgo". Wut? Plus, that whole notion is subjective at best and places you in a very small minority.

Characters are based on source material. Are we supposed to ignore that? Selectively? We referenced Splatoon here and the source material, but we don't mention K.Rool's source material, so he's therefore not unique enough. That just seems strange to me, and frankly unfair.

If we're going to judge characters a certain way, they need to be judged consistently. We also need to cover all bases. Characters don't get in the game because of one thing. For example, if we're going to say that Tharja could get in as DLC because she has a fanbase, we need to add in other factors. Is she unique? (meh) Does she contribute to series balance? (double meh) Does the character make sense? Characters like Geno, Monster Hunter or others I've seen tossed around simply don't meet particular criteria.

Whether you think unique gameplay matters or not is irrelevant. It does. Quite a bit. Sakurai has mentioned it on a frequent basis, and DLC isn't like a group of last minute characters. They have time to work on them. They aren't going to just jam a bunch of clones into the game and call it a day. They COULD do a clone or two. I'm not going to deny it completely. But to go into this thread and say things like, "K.Rool isn't unique enough" and then say "I support Young Link as DLC" contradict one another a lot.

Whats your opinion on Ray (Custom Robo), Tiki, or a laguz representative maybe Ranulf? Also whats your opinion of an Inkling or Fleming?

I disagree with you. We just got Golden Sun on VC, and Custom Robo? Nothing.

Even still, I think Isaac has a piece of paper's chance of surviving in a dishwasher

Custom Robo is a fighting game that invented Custom Characters and now we have that in SSB and Ray MK III is MIA like Isaac they both have an equal shot at being promoted like Little Mac was. Also Custom Robo is a great franchise and deserves a game on the Wii U cause imagine all of the possibilities in today's modern gaming environment with Online Play, Customization, and DLC it would be amazing and great.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Whats your opinion on Ray (Custom Robo), Tiki, or a laguz representative maybe Ranulf? Also whats your opinion of an Inkling or Fleming?




Custom Robo is a fighting game that invented Custom Characters and now we have that in SSB and Ray MK III is MIA like Isaac they both have an equal shot at being promoted like Little Mac was. Also Custom Robo is a great franchise and deserves a game on the Wii U cause imagine all of the possibilities in today's modern gaming environment with Online Play, Customization, and DLC it would be amazing and great.

Tiki and a Laguz character will probably not happen simply because transformations are out of the question. I know you think Ray is on equal footing with Isaac but he really isn't.

Inklings and Fleming are great choices. Inklings are one of my top picks actually.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Custom Robo is a fighting game that invented Custom Characters and now we have that in SSB and Ray MK III is MIA like Isaac they both have an equal shot at being promoted like Little Mac was. Also Custom Robo is a great franchise and deserves a game on the Wii U cause imagine all of the possibilities in today's modern gaming environment with Online Play, Customization, and DLC it would be amazing and great.

Yeah, but that don't make him any more likely.

 

[theenlightenedone]

Tiki and a Laguz character will probably not happen simply because transformations are out of the question. I know you think Ray is on equal footing with Isaac but he really isn't.

Inklings and Fleming are great choices. Inklings are one of my top picks actually.

Whats your opinion of ray though? Also explain why both of them didn't return as assist trophies then? Also if we were to get a new transformation character they would make their moveset but separate them and have them as two separate characters. Don't you think Advanced Wars should get a representative before STEAM does?

Yeah, but that don't make him any more likely.

It is still a good reason and he would still make a great addition.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Whats your opinion of ray though? Also explain why both of them didn't return as assist trophies then? Also if we were to get a new transformation character they would make their moveset but separate them and have them as two separate characters. Don't you think Advanced Wars should get a representative before STEAM does?



It is still a good reason and he would still make a great addition.

Yeah, but Ah havent seen a custom Robo game ever since before Brawl, and there ain't no sign of one soon.

 

[theenlightenedone]

Yeah, but Ah havent seen a custom Robo game ever since before Brawl, and there ain't no sign of one soon.

Doesn't matter if we haven't seen one in a while I was asking if you thought he would still make a great addition as a fighter?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Doesn't matter if we haven't seen one in a while I was asking if you thought he would still make a great addition as a fighter?

Ah wouldn't mind seein it happen, ah just doubt it, that's all.

 

[False Sense]

Let me get this straight. K.Rool isn't unique enough to get into Smash Bros., but Young Link is good enough to get in because he has a remake, yet is a 3rd Link, in otherwords something that goes against what you've said here? "able to provide a diverse playstyle from the getgo". Wut? Plus, that whole notion is subjective at best and places you in a very small minority.

Characters are based on source material. Are we supposed to ignore that? Selectively? We referenced Splatoon here and the source material, but we don't mention K.Rool's source material, so he's therefore not unique enough. That just seems strange to me, and frankly unfair.

If we're going to judge characters a certain way, they need to be judged consistently. We also need to cover all bases. Characters don't get in the game because of one thing. For example, if we're going to say that Tharja could get in as DLC because she has a fanbase, we need to add in other factors. Is she unique? (meh) Does she contribute to series balance? (double meh) Does the character make sense? Characters like Geno, Monster Hunter or others I've seen tossed around simply don't meet particular criteria.

Whether you think unique gameplay matters or not is irrelevant. It does. Quite a bit. Sakurai has mentioned it on a frequent basis, and DLC isn't like a group of last minute characters. They have time to work on them. They aren't going to just jam a bunch of clones into the game and call it a day. They COULD do a clone or two. I'm not going to deny it completely. But to go into this thread and say things like, "K.Rool isn't unique enough" and then say "I support Young Link as DLC" contradict one another a lot.

In his defense, I think his argument for Young Link is that he would be unique by using the transformation masks for his move set, transforming into a different form for each individual attack. That concept is certainly unique... If not a nightmare to develop...

 

[Johnknight1]

In his defense, I think his argument for Young Link is that he would be unique by using the transformation masks for his move set, transforming into a different form for each individual attack. That concept is certainly unique... If not a nightmare to develop...

It is a nightmare to develop. The Pokémon Trainer in Brawl probably took what approximately any given 5 other newcomers took to make because of it.

Besides that, transformations are gone and not returning (at least in this game), and honestly, they don't really add anything to the game. There's no sense in asking for what already isn't going to ever happen.

If people really want a Deku Scrub, Zora, or Goron moveset, use a character of those species in the Zelda universe, not Link.

If people really want Young Link, push for something different, whether as a different kind of Link clone, (my idea of) a rod-based Link (using the various rods specifically from ALTTP/ALBW, especially the latter), or maybe a "retro" kind of 2D Link where Link uses a lot of stabs, magic attacks, and even has a sword beam.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Whats your opinion on Ray (Custom Robo), Tiki, or a laguz representative maybe Ranulf? Also whats your opinion of an Inkling or Fleming?

I don't see a laguz EVER happening. We got the most famous character from the two worst selling games in the series. Laguz likely aren't going to appear again. I don't think Tiki will happen either because of transformations. Tiki is useless without transforming, so transforming can't even be "just" her Final Smash. And we've got three FE characters plus an FE clone.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Ah wouldn't mind seein it happen, ah just doubt it, that's all.

Why do you keep using ah in place of I?

 

[Deleted member]

Why do you keep using ah in place of I?

He's being in character for his pranked session.

....not that it really means anything; I didn't speak or act any differently when I was pranked.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

He's being in character for his pranked session.

....not that it really means anything; I didn't speak or act any differently when I was pranked.

What kind of character says ah instead of I? That's overly stupid.

 

[JaidynReiman]

What kind of character says ah instead of I? That's overly stupid.

I think its supposed to be southern US...? That's what I got out of it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What kind of character says ah instead of I? That's overly stupid.

He's trying to have a Southern US accent.

But that's not how those people talk so....



Regardless, if you have to bet on who would be the next DLC character after Mewtwo, who would you choose?

 

[JaidynReiman]

He's trying to have a Southern US accent.

But that's not how those people talk so....



Regardless, if you have to bet on who would be the next DLC character after Mewtwo, who would you choose?

Honestly, it all depends on Sakurai's criteria, and what we choose to include.

If we include Brawl vets, Wolf.
If we skip Brawl vets and speculate on the little info we know, Isaac.
If we skip Brawl vets and Sakurai goes more on popularity and importance, King K. Rool by far.
If we skip Brawl vets and Sakurai goes more on popularity and importance but only if the character is "relevant" (actually the argument should be recent), Dixie Kong.

 

[AEMehr]

Regardless, if you have to bet on who would be the next DLC character after Mewtwo, who would you choose?

Tough to say who exactly, but I'm 50/50 on a new Donkey Kong character or a Brawl Vet isn't from Pokemon.