Character Discussion Thread

[True Blue Warrior]

In essence, yes. Throughout the Zelda series, there have been many different incarnations of Link; it would be impossible to represent all of them in Smash. But apparently, Sakurai thinks it's important to represent these different incarnations, specifically the difference in age between Links. So he has regular Link encompass the "adult" Links, and Toon Link to encompass all the "young" Links. In that sense, a third Link is just unnecessary.

One question- does there also tend to be many different Child Zeldas like there are Child Links?

 

[GunGunW]

The only third Link that is acceptable is Wolf Link with Midna in a tag-team.

Even then I'd prefer if she had the generic wolf from Hyrule Warriors over the wolf Link.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So not to change to a probably dry topic, but I have to share my ideas for Inklings in Smash.

Inklings can spray ink onto the stage, limiting the approach options of an opponent. if the opponent runs into the ink, they can either slip, or slide like Luigi. This can set them up to be punished or set up for a throw. It could also be used to approach for the Inklings, considering they can travel through ink as squids. Or, depending on how its implemented, it could be partially like a recovery move

Ink grenades could be a projectile, the paint roller could be a down smash like the Villagers shovel or a dash attack

the UpB could be similar to Diddy, which they need to charge and aim. That originates from the launching thing where they can launch to their teammates in Splatoon

The different weapons can be custom moves. That actually implements a class system into Smash. Kind of an awesome idea

Thoughts on these ideas? I think it'd be pretty cool myself.

 

[Kenith]

One question- does there also tend to be many different Child Zeldas like there are Child Links?

Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker, The Four Swords series and The Oracle games have a unique child Zelda.
It's funny, I actually was hoping when I was playing Melee that there was a Young Zelda to go with Young Link.

 

[Pazzo.]

In essence, yes. Throughout the Zelda series, there have been many different incarnations of Link; it would be impossible to represent all of them in Smash. But apparently, Sakurai thinks it's important to represent these different incarnations, specifically the difference in age between Links. So he has regular Link encompass the "adult" Links, and Toon Link to encompass all the "young" Links. In that sense, a third Link is just unnecessary.

Agreed. This is evidence by TL's palette swaps, and Adult Link's fusion of Link characteristics.

Off topic, but is each Link really a reincarnation of the previous one? That would mean that the Hero's Shade in TP isn't a dead Majora's Mask Link.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So not to change to a probably dry topic, but I have to share my ideas for Inklings in Smash.



Thoughts on these ideas? I think it'd be pretty cool myself.

That is cool.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I suppose I don't get the pessimism with DLC. Are we forgetting about Mario Kart 8? Hyrule Warriors? NSMBU?

Smash is a system seller. I wouldn't expect a billion fafillion kagillion characters and a massive amount of content. But expecting something like 4-8 isn't too crazy in my opinion. I highly doubt the upcoming DLC for Mario Kart is the end of it. Imagine the moolah Nintendo could make if they add some solid content for Smash via DLC. It would be amazing.

Obviously, as I said, I wouldn't get too crazy. But optimism doesn't hurt.

Honestly, thank you completely for saying this. This is exactly the same point I keep trying to make. Smash DLC would sell like hotcakes, and Nintendo knows it. I don't think it hurts to expect DLC characters and stages at all, and a decent amount of it. Not going TOO overboard, but I think we could get about 6 characters total, maybe more, though I'd bet on about 6.

Agreed. This is evidence by TL's palette swaps, and Adult Link's fusion of Link characteristics.

Off topic, but is each Link really a reincarnation of the previous one? That would mean that the Hero's Shade in TP isn't a dead Majora's Mask Link.

I don't know if "reincarnation" was ever confirmed in actual Zelda canon, its just a theory. If it has been confirmed its news to me. The only game to really touch on the subject is Hyrule Warriors, which is non-canon. Presumably its true, but its never stated.


Off-topic mini-Zelda rant:

Spoiler

Which also makes me salty over Saria's exclusion... not only is she an important OOT character, she's the first "childhood friend" to appear in the series, she's immortal essentially so time would not restrict her from appearing, and the game even states "Saria will always be your friend," which could extend to future reincarnations of Link as well and even to HW Link in the HW canon. Some argued that Saria may not have fit into the storyline, but that's a ludicrous argument; she's the absolute perfect fit.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So not to change to a probably dry topic, but I have to share my ideas for Inklings in Smash.



Thoughts on these ideas? I think it'd be pretty cool myself.

Great idea, and I don't even have any interest in getting Splatoon

 

[GunGunW]

Am I the only one who thinks another Link or another Zelda would be terrible?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Am I the only one who thinks another Link or another Zelda would be terrible?

I don't think many people want yet nor expect yet another Link and as for the latter... Sakurai didn't think so in Brawl

 

[Kenith]

Am I the only one who thinks another Link or another Zelda would be terrible?

Another Link, I would agree. However I like Tetra so I would like to see her, especially before Impa.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Bias meets bias.

 

[Kenith]

Having another "Toon" character from The Wind Waker could sold a lot of issues.
Having Toon Ganondorf could solve the issue with Ganondorf being a clone, Tetra could solve the issue of Toon Link not using items unique to the Wind Waker...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Again, this is subjective. K.Rool's weight class and gameplay mechanics aren't even being considered here. Is he a trap setter? Is he a spacing character? Grappler? The gameplay type he would have combined with what he is capable of is what we should be looking at here, or with any character.

Weight doesn't really that contribute much to uniqueness unless it's used for a gameplay style mainly involving switching weights.
It's a somewhat similar sense to Shulk. Most people just suggest K. Rool a projectile user due to amount projectiles he has in the DKC games.

But has most of these options already, so now he doesn't much to distinguish himself unless he's a last minute Bowser Jr. clone.

Just because a character doesn't have the same abilities of another doesn't mean that the former is a bad choice or "isn't unique". That's unfair on so many levels.

I never called him a bad choice from the beginning.

A lot actually. The characters I listed could likely have some unique traits to them. However, being unique on its own means nothing in their case. Geno is relatively obscure and will probably never get in Smash unless he becomes outrageously important or springs back into action. It's different for everybody depending on their situation.

Still has nothing to do with uniqueness, that has to do more with the situation they are in than it is to uniqueness.

Correct. But I still fail to see where Tharja fits in here. Adding Tharja would give Fire Emblem 5 characters, 3 being from the newest game. That would bring it to the same amount of Zelda and Pokemon, 3 ahead of Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Metroid, and 2 ahead of Kirby. Fire Emblem has been on the upswing, but five characters? That doesn't seem like good roster balance. Tharja's niche has been taken by Robin, Zelda and arguably Palutena. She could be a magic user, but there are other things in her way that make her a rather forgettable choice in my opinion.

This also has nothing to do with uniqueness of the character.
No one has fully taken the role as a Dark Mage yet aside from Robin's one move (In which Robin focuses on a variety of tomes).
She could still be pretty unique.

Making him transform for one attack would defeat the purpose of the transformation in the first place, and would put unnecessary stress on the game. I still don't quite get why a 3rd Link should get priority over characters who bring more to the game. But hey, to each his own.

But it is still a possibility, there's no real stress really when it comes to Sakurai.
And I addressed before why Young Link has a good chance of getting in, and you already know the reasonings I said before that you denied (that the new major release of MM3D helped his chances for a reminder.)

Young Link is pretty much one of the few Nintendo characters that I would, without any hesitation say that he has absolutely no chance at all. Never mind the fact that he already has been replaced by a character who not only fills his role very well, but might as well be the same character as Young Link. He has little marketing potential precisely because he is the exact kind of character who has no real appeal due to Toon Link making him redundant. How many people are honestly going to be interested in Majora's Mask due to the inclusion of a redundant (and yes, considering Sakurai's philosophy on the Links and the fact that Young Link already had an established moveset with Sakurai showing reluctance to completely chance clone characters as shown by Ganondorf still having many moves in common with Captain Falcon, he is going to be an absolute clone) second child Link? Young Link isn't even a popularly requested character

More importantly he doesn't fit into any of Sakurai's criteria except fitting into the style of Smash Bros, which means nothing. He neither has appeal nor the Smash demand to make people want to play the game. He is not unique at all and he has no chance of becoming unique considering the history of veteran clones and the fact that Toon Link, a character that could have been unique, was turned into a clone because of Sakurai's philosophy regarding Links. Another Child Link that is a clone is redundant and thus he would absolutely do the opposite of contributing to game balance.

Young Link sticks out as a sore thumb and a nonsensical veteran inclusion for all the reasons that I have explained. Sorry, but there is no way, even as a easy clone addition, that Young Link will ever be DLC especially as the one supposedly "advantage" that he has is made moot by just how little appeal he has. If you ask me, Toon Zelda trumps Young Link in mere chance and she has over 20 times the chance he has (and that's not saying much, considering even 0.01%> 20 X 0!). Neither are popular, but at least she was planned for Brawl (as opposed to, you know, getting replaced by a character that is essentially the same thing as you and who takes your value and role away as the definitive Child Link). She also has had prominent post-Brawl appearances such as Spirit Tracks and WindWaker HD. More importantly, at least she wouldn't be redundant even as a clone, considering there isn't even a Zelda clone let alone a Child Zelda who is a clone.

In conclusion, can this ridiculous notion that Young Link remotely has a chance end? He is a terrible choice for an advertisement character, any importance he has as a child Link is moot due to Toon Link, he has no real appeal due to being yet another Link and a second, redundant Child Link, he has not only been a character that never was planned to be in Brawl but outright replaced and he doesn't have much Smash popularity.

Nice essay, but remember, that's just only your opinion.
Young Link is a character hated just in Smash, but for Zelda fans, he's one of the most recognizable and loved versions of Link ever if I brought up OoT and MM.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Weight doesn't really that contribute much to uniqueness unless it's used for a gameplay style mainly involving switching weights.
It's a somewhat similar sense to Shulk. Most people just suggest K. Rool a projectile user due to amount projectiles he has in the DKC games.

But has most of these options already, so now he doesn't much to distinguish himself unless he's a last minute Bowser Jr. clone.


I never called him a bad choice from the beginning.

You're not actually serious are you?

Certain gameplay styles complement the playstyle, moveset and balance of the character. Mewtwo's lightweight in Melee essentially ruined him as a viable fighter competitively. Weight changes how a character plays. Ganondorf for example is based on very strong attacks that can KO at low percentages. Making him fast and lightweight would make him essentially overpowered. Ganondorf can be used as a grappler, which is usually a playstyle given to heavyweight fighters across fighting games aside from Smash.

How could K.Rool even be a clone of Bowser Jr. when a large portion of the moveset comes from the Koopa Copter? That doesn't even make any sense. K.Rool being a heavyweight would then provide a few things to his character in Smash. Look at it this way...if you made King Dedede or Ganondorf lightweight, and therefore faster, would they be balanced? The answer is a very firm, "No". No they wouldn't be. Their moveset is created based on factors to make the character relatively cohesive.

Still has nothing to do with uniqueness, that has to do more with the situation they are in than it is to uniqueness.

It absolutely has to do with uniqueness. If they're monumentously unique, it still won't matter if other things apply. Like Tharja or Geno. Geno would be a cool character based on what he's capable of. Ray would too. But other factors come into play that basically shoot down some characters chances, like Geno.

This also has nothing to do with uniqueness of the character.
No one has fully taken the role as a Dark Mage yet aside from Robin's one move (In which Robin focuses on a variety of tomes).
She could still be pretty unique.

Magic is still magic. No matter what kind of magic it is. Robin even uses Nosferatu. Using a different kind of magic in itself is not unique in a gameplay sense, which is what matters. How would she use the magic to be different? Gameplaywise, what would she do that makes her different to the point that she should be added?

But it is still a possibility, there's no real stress really when it comes to Sakurai.
And I addressed before why Young Link has a good chance of getting in, and you already know the reasonings I said before that you denied (that the new major release of MM3D helped his chances for a reminder.)

How does having a new release suddenly make a character have good chances? He's literally the exact same concept as Toon Link, but in a different art form. If getting a remake is good enough reason for him to be considered, "likely", then Sceptile is top tier for Smash 4. As are any main characters for any upcoming remakes. See how silly that sounds? Young Link is not the same thing as adding an Inkling or Captain Toad, or another new/relevant character. Link is in the game twice already, and you want a 3rd simply because a game is getting remade?

Nice essay, but remember, that's just only your opinion.
Young Link is a character hated just in Smash, but for Zelda fans, he's one of the most recognizable and loved versions of Link ever if I brought up OoT and MM.

We're not talking about Zelda. We're talking about Smash. If he has little/no reason to be in Smash, then there's no reason to put him in. Just because Owain is a popular character in Fire Emblem doesn't mean he should added because of it.

 

[GunGunW]

Another Link, I would agree. However I like Tetra so I would like to see her, especially before Impa.

I wouldn't mind Tetra, but I certainly wouldn't take her before Impa personally.

 

[Kenith]

I wouldn't mind Tetra, but I certainly wouldn't take her before Impa personally.

I'd take a lot of characters before Impa. People only started "wanting" Midna when every other potential Zelda character was disconfirmed.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Certain gameplay styles complement the playstyle, moveset and balance of the character. Mewtwo's lightweight in Melee essentially ruined him as a viable fighter competitively. Weight changes how a character plays. Ganondorf for example is based on very strong attacks that can KO at low percentages. Making him fast and lightweight would make him essentially overpowered. Ganondorf can be used as a grappler, which is usually a playstyle given to heavyweight fighters across fighting games aside from Smash.

Yeah, woops on my part, but it's still just one small piece of the playstyle. That is just the pro or con on using a certain playstyle, not what they really offer from based on source material.

How could K.Rool even be a clone of Bowser Jr. when a large portion of the moveset comes from the Koopa Copter? That doesn't even make any sense. K.Rool being a heavyweight would then provide a few things to his character in Smash. Look at it this way...if you made King Dedede or Ganondorf lightweight, and therefore faster, would they be balanced? The answer is a very firm, "No". No they wouldn't be. Their moveset is created based on factors to make the character relatively cohesive

He does have a bunch of physical projectiles like Bowser Jr for comparison.
But I understand the weight statement, but, I still think that's just unique, not very unique.

It absolutely has to do with uniqueness. If they monumentously unique, it still won't matter if other things apply. Like Tharja or Geno. Geno would be a cool character based on what he's capable of. Ray would too. But other factors come into play that basically shoot down some characters chances, like Geno.

Yeah, you're just talking about other factors of a newcomer's inclusion and not actual uniqueness.
I'm just not understanding this.

Magic is still magic. No matter what kind of magic it is. Robin even uses Nosferatu. Using a different kind of magic in itself is not unique in a gameplay sense, which is what matters. How would she use the magic to be different? Gameplaywise, what would she do that makes her different to the point that she should be added?

If you use Dark Tomes for the majority of the moveset, then it's still pretty unique.
This going to be a large conversation though, so I'll save myself the time and let you look at the Dark Tomes in Awakening.
http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_weapons_in_Fire_Emblem:_Awakening
They are pretty unique spells, and they do more than just increase in power. Each Dark Tome is unique and has different functions.

How does having a new release suddenly make a character have good chances? He's literally the exact same concept as Toon Link, but in a different art form. If getting a remake is good enough reason for him to be considered, "likely", then Sceptile is top tier for Smash 4.

Sceptile is a different story, Blaziken would more likely be in as the OR/AS character since he's more popular and marketable than him. All you are telling me is that 3rd Link is redundant and it's comparable to a new/relevant character, which makes very little sense to me. And for the record, I never said "likely", just said a good chance.

As are any main character for any upcoming remakes. See how silly that sounds? Young Link is not the same thing as adding an Inkling or Captain Toad, or another new/relevant character.

No, but a MM3D is a pretty major release for most people, most people have been clamoring on a 3D remake since the OoT remake, it's notable enough for Sakurai to consider.

We're not talking about Zelda. We're talking about Smash. If he has no reason to be in Smash, then there's no reason to put him in. [/QUOTE]
He does have his own reasons to be in Smash and it's something you cannot agree with. You can't say there's absolutely no reason at all.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'd take a lot of characters before Impa. People only started "wanting" Midna when every other potential Zelda character was disconfirmed.

Um, lol, no. There was a fairly decent amount of fans prior that did in fact want Impa, me for one. Right from the start Impa was the new Zelda character I figured would be the best pick overall for a new Zelda character.

 

[GunGunW]

Well Impa is like, the next main Zelda character after the trio...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Blue if Tharja is so unique, then make a full gameplay style and moveset without borrowing more than three moves from Robin, Zelda or Palutena.

 

[Bowserlick]

Again, King K. Rool should have the ability to switch his special attacks during gameplay. While other characters can custom before battle, King K. Rool could custom during battle.

His costumes: King, Pirate, Baron

The King could have access to his crown boomerang as a projectile, a belly bouncing attack that can be charged to reflect projectiles as well as dealing knockback and a tail-propelled leap that ends in a nasty bite.

The Pirate could focus on loading up his blunderbuss with different projectiles, a horizontal move that fires the said projectile while pushing Rool in the opposite direction and a vertical firing of his blunderbuss which propels him upwards.

The Baron could focus more on recovery and zoning, using his copter for air superiority and his electric spheres to control space.

King. K. Rool would be balanced because he would be the largest target in the game. Although he would be the new heaviest character.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

The only Legend of Zelda characters I'd be interested in now would be Midna and Ghirahim....and you can see what happened to them.

This is just my opinion but I don't see The Legend of Zelda as a series with more to offer in terms of characters. Two clones (Toon Link, Ganondorf) and potentially (potentially!) Impa as a Sheik clone/semi-clone.

Most of the more notable and interesting side characters (Tingle, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid) have become assist trophies. There doesn't seem to be anything remotely exciting left to work with moveset wise.

I just really struggle to get excited over the prospect of another Zelda fighter.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Blue if Tharja is so unique, then make a full gameplay style and moveset without borrowing more than three moves from Robin, Zelda or Palutena.

I didn't say so unique, I said pretty unique. :U
She could easily take Robin's Nosferatu (Since she's obviously a Dark Mage)
She probably would be relatively unique (not as different from Robin, but enough to not feel like you're playing as Robin) as she can only use dark tomes in all of her moves (since again, she's a Dark Mage to stay true to the source material).
That was pretty easy.

 

[BKupa666]

Used to be big on doing 'sniff tests' on characters with regard to how "unique" are they, but stopped after realizing how futile it truly is. If a character gets added, the fanbase will bend over backwards to single out the tiniest of traits as a reason they're "so unique" (i.e. "WFT's generic physical attacks are yoga poses, most unique character ever"). If a character gets left out, the slightest of similarities they have to another character becomes a reason that the character is inherently as dull as dishwater and has no chance (i.e. "Link has a boomerang, therefore K. Rool is not unique").

It's truly that simple.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I didn't say so unique, I said pretty unique. :U
She could easily take Robin's Nosferatu (Since she's obviously a Dark Mage)
She probably would be relatively unique (not as different from Robin, but enough to not feel like you're playing as Robin) as she can only use dark tomes in all of her moves (since again, she's a Dark Mage to stay true to the source material).
That was pretty easy.

Ah.

I said moveset. Don't cop out on me.

 

[Curious Villager]

Bleh Zelda discussions..... eh....

One question- does there also tend to be many different Child Zeldas like there are Child Links?

Zelda appears just as many times as a youngster as Link does, same for the adult counterpart....

I'd be content enough with a Wind Waker Pack I guess.....(Pirate Ship or a new Wind Waker stage, Tetra, maybe Toon Zelda as a bonus, trophies and all that jazz) Just my opinion.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ah.

I said moveset. Don't cop out on me.

OK geez..
I'm sure I provided enough to not really make one up. Some moves I don't see Tharja F-Tilting like Zelda and Palutena.
Tharja has a pretty different personality for most of her normal attacks to act differently. (Sorta like Lucas )

But you want a full moveset, that's going to take a while.
You better give me detailed compliments in return, I'll work on it soon.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

OK geez..
I'm sure I provided enough to not really make one up. Some moves I don't see Tharja F-Tilting like Zelda and Palutena. And Tharja has a pretty different personality for most of her normal attacks to act differently. (Sorta like Lucas )

But you want a full moveset, that's going to take a while.
You better give me detailed compliments in return, I'll work on it soon.

Only if I'm wowed.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Only if I'm wowed.

I'll try my best to do that. Anyone have Sakurai's posable figures to aid me?
This is going to be fun.
And do you mind if you unlock the @Shorts 's Tharja support thread, so my moveset isn't just forgotten throughout these pages.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'll try my best to do that. Anyone have Sakurai's posable figures to aid me?
This is going to be fun.
And do you mind if you unlock the @Shorts 's Tharja support thread, so my moveset isn't just forgotten throughout these pages.

Link?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Link?

http://smashboards.com/threads/“i-h...raid-a-dark-side-”-tharjas-ssb4-harem.335285/

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Link?

Forgive me *shot*

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

In all honesty, I can only see Toon Zelda or Impa getting in Smash as DLC when it comes to Zelda. Wouldn't have minded Midna or Ghirahim, but they're assist trophies.

 

[Spazzy_D]

The only Legend of Zelda characters I'd be interested in now would be Midna and Ghirahim....and you can see what happened to them.

This is just my opinion but I don't see The Legend of Zelda as a series with more to offer in terms of characters. Two clones (Toon Link, Ganondorf) and potentially (potentially!) Impa as a Sheik clone/semi-clone.

Most of the more notable and interesting side characters (Tingle, Midna, Ghirahim, Skull Kid) have become assist trophies. There doesn't seem to be anything remotely exciting left to work with moveset wise.

I just really struggle to get excited over the prospect of another Zelda fighter.

Heavy Mage with a ton of movement options and a trident for melee attacks! How is that not AT LEAST as unique as those other "interesting" Zelda reps you mentioned?

 

[Curious Villager]

In all honesty, I can only see Toon Zelda or Impa getting in Smash as DLC when it comes to Zelda. Wouldn't have minded Midna or Ghirahim, but they're assist trophies.

Yeah, I would have loved to see Ganon or Tetra myself but eh....

Y'know there's that thing with Tetra's trophy in Smash Tour, do we know all the trophies yet that have any effect on that mode? I don't know how much that mode would have an effect on their chances as DLC though, considering DLC characters would probably get brand new trophies and all if they already have one (Like Mewtwo in Smash 3DS, haven't seen his Wii U trophy yet besides his mega evolutions but I'd assume he would....) but who knows I guess....

 

[Deleted member]

One thing I didn't miss pre-Mewtwo were the constant "my unlikely character is better than your unlikely character" fights...

 

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah, I would have loved to see Ganon or Tetra myself but eh....

Y'know there's that thing with Tetra's trophy in Smash Tour, do we know all the trophies yet that have any effect on that mode? I don't know how much that mode would have an effect on their chances as DLC though, considering DLC characters would probably get brand new trophies and all if they already have one (Like Mewtwo in Smash 3DS, haven't seen his Wii U trophy yet besides his mega evolutions but I'd assume he would....) but who knows I guess....

According to what I heard, Mewtwo has the exact same trophy in Smash Wii U. But its just something I heard, don't know how true it is.

 

[Deleted member]

According to what I heard, Mewtwo has the exact same trophy in Smash Wii U. But its just something I heard, don't know how true it is.

In one of the videos (can't remember for the life of me which one), it shows the Mewtwo trophy being obtained, and it visually appears to be the same one if that helps.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

One thing I didn't miss pre-Mewtwo were the constant "my unlikely character is better than your unlikely character" fights...

Well, look at the bright side, at least the fun and joy shall never end!