Character Discussion Thread

[ChronoBound]

Didn't Roy (the swordsman) help sell his game (that did not come out yet when he was in Smash?

If Nintendo thinks Splatoon will be popular, they could make fate by putting the character in the game.

Its not Nintendo its Sakurai that decides. For the example of Roy, it was actually Sakurai's idea to use him. When Sakurai decided to add the six clones, he went to Intelligent Systems for permission to use another Fire Emblem character, and while there he was given a sneak peak at FE6 and the protagonist of it, Roy. Sakurai was impressed and felt that the fire attributes for the Sword of Seals would help make Roy more distinctive than other possible choices for a Marth clone, and the rest was history.

I mean, even the Fire Emblem fans don't like Roy after playing his game .

This is a stupid myth propagated by Roy haters. FE6 is among the most well-received installments among the Japanese FE fanbase (which received all the games to the series). Even amongst the minority of Western FE fans that have played Japan-only FE games, FE6 is probably the most popular Japan-only game after FE4.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Its not Nintendo its Sakurai that decides. For the example of Roy, it was actually Sakurai's idea to use him. When Sakurai decided to add the six clones, he went to Intelligent Systems for permission to use another Fire Emblem character, and while there he was given a sneak peak at FE6 and the protagonist of it, Roy. Sakurai was impressed and felt that the fire attributes for the Sword of Seals would help make Roy more distinctive than other possible choices for a Marth clone, and the rest was history.



This is a stupid myth propagated by Roy haters. FE6 is among the most well-received installments among the Japanese FE fanbase (which received all the games to the series). Even amongst the minority of Western FE fans that have played Japan-only FE games, FE6 is probably the most popular Japan-only game after FE4.

This exactly. I hate how people keep saying that Roy was added for marketing. That had nothing to do with it at all. Although honestly, I do feel that Leif would've still been a better clone, but he was planning to base Leif on FE5...

 

[ChronoBound]

This exactly. I hate how people keep saying that Roy was added for marketing. That had nothing to do with it at all. Although honestly, I do feel that Leif would've still been a better clone, but he was planning to base Leif on FE5...

Its unconfirmed who the second FE character would have been, but even if it was Leaf he would have probably have played the same as Roy minus the fire effects. Really, Roy was probably the best choice at the time. Keep in mind the second-highest lord in Sakurai's pre-Melee poll was Celice, who only got a measly four votes. Celice aesthetically is simply a more feminine looking Marth. Sigurd and Leaf both only got two votes each. It was really only Marth who did exceptionally well on Sakurai's pre-Melee poll, so Sakurai pretty much had free reign to choose who ever he wanted for a second FE slot since the Japanese fans didn't really care about aside from Marth.

 

[JaidynReiman]

This is a stupid myth propagated by Roy haters. FE6 is among the most well-received installments among the Japanese FE fanbase (which received all the games to the series). Even amongst the minority of Western FE fans that have played Japan-only FE games, FE6 is probably the most popular Japan-only game after FE4.

I think you missed the point. FE6 itself is perfectly fine. You're arguing the merits of the game, but totally ignoring the fact that the problem isn't the game: its Roy himself. He's a crappy character in the game in general. You can't even use him half the game, and by the time he promotes its too little, too late. Unless you got all the Legendary Weapons, where after a few levels he can get quite beastly, but by then its already the end of the game and the final boss can be one-rounded by anyone. Roy is useless during every point of the game it matters.

It should be noted that Roy isn't the only problem, either. Eliwood had a similar reception. By comparison, though POR/RD did not sell as well, Ike was received far better, and is generally considered to be the best lord in the entire series. Leif in FE5 and Roy are pretty close to being two of the worst, but Leif's problem is only in FE5. In FE4, Leif is one of the best characters in the second half of the game, hands down, if not THE best.


Chrom isn't nearly as good as Ike, but is way better than the original Marth (Marth was fine in FE3 as I recall), Leif in FE4, Roy, and Eliwood. Chrom's only problem is that Lucina and Robin beat him out in every way, shape, and form. Ike doesn't really have such competition except with the Laguz Royals, who are supposed to be OP anyway.

Its unconfirmed who the second FE character would have been, but even if it was Leaf he would have probably have played the same as Roy minus the fire effects. Really, Roy was probably the best choice at the time. Keep in mind the second-highest lord in Sakurai's pre-Melee poll was Celice, who only got a measly four votes. Celice aesthetically is simply a more feminine looking Marth. Sigurd and Leaf both only got two votes each. It was really only Marth who did exceptionally well on Sakurai's pre-Melee poll, so Sakurai pretty much had free reign to choose who ever he wanted for a second FE slot since the Japanese fans didn't really care about aside from Marth.

The general consensus is that it was intended to be Leif because Leif was the newest main Lord. Originally, Marth was planned to be Sigurd as well, but Sakurai switched to Marth when Marth was shown to be much more of a popular pick. It can even be seen in Marth's moveset, as Marth in general always fought with thrust attacks, but Marth's standard B was a slash attack, which made no sense for his character. Sigurd, on the other hand, was always mounted and did in fact attack by slashing. Brawl fixed this and gave Marth a Thrust standard B instead.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think you missed the point. FE6 itself is perfectly fine. You're arguing the merits of the game, but totally ignoring the fact that the problem isn't the game: its Roy himself. He's a crappy character in the game in general. You can't even use him half the game, and by the time he promotes its too little, too late. Unless you got all the Legendary Weapons, where after a few levels he can get quite beastly, but by then its already the end of the game and the final boss can be one-rounded by anyone. Roy is useless during every point of the game it matters.

Actually Roy is pretty solid as a unit. Just support him Alan/Lance and he's fine. The main thing hurting Roy is the absurdly late promotion (three chapters from the end), otherwise he would be among the best units in the games. It really his absurdly late promotion that weighs him down.

As for FE4 Leaf, he is definitely not among the best units in Generation 2. He needs to be babied (he is very fragile when you first get him) before he becomes a force to be reckoned with. Not to mention the wide assortment of units that are a lot better than him before then (Celice, Sety, Shannan, Lackche). Generation 2 is swamped with broken/over-powered units in general.

The general consensus is that it was intended to be Leif because Leif was the newest main Lord. Originally, Marth was planned to be Sigurd as well, but Sakurai switched to Marth when Marth was shown to be much more of a popular pick. I

No. Sigurd was NEVER planned for Melee. I am really surprised so many myths pertaining to FE and Smash Bros. have survive for so long. Also, there is no proper source indicating that Leaf was planned, so its pretty much speculation.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Actually Roy is pretty solid as a unit. Just support him Alan/Lance and he's fine. The main thing hurting Roy is the absurdly late promotion (three chapters from the end), otherwise he would be among the best units in the games. It really his absurdly late promotion that weighs him down.

That my point exactly. Roy's a decent unit, but he promotes so late that half the game he's completely useless. You can't have him attack too much because you want him to take his sweet time to getting to Level 20, you're bound to get him to Level 20 long before he promotes, so during this huge section of the game he can't be used at all otherwise he wastes XP while every other character passes him up. And he promotes in the last chapter of the game (by default). Its the fact that Roy is so useless because of this that Roy's not a great unit. Availability also affects how viable and useful a unit is. By the time he is useful, its so late in the game that its already over.


Either way, the main complaint about the Smash community against Roy is that most people like Roy only because of his "cool fire effects" in Melee. The grand majority of Roy's fanbase is Melee, not the original game he came from, which is quite annoying. Both Robin and Ike were extremely popular in their respective games (though not many suggested Robin for Smash at first) because of how powerful they were in general.

 

[ChronoBound]

Either way, the main complaint about the Smash community against Roy is that most people like Roy only because of his "cool fire effects" in Melee. The grand majority of Roy's fanbase is Melee, not the original game he came from, which is quite annoying. Both Robin and Ike were extremely popular in their respective games (though not many suggested Robin for Smash at first) because of how powerful they were in general.

That's negligible considering that the Japanese FE fanbase does love Roy, and they were the only ones to properly receive Roy's game.

However, is a pretty stupid line of reasoning. I doubt very few people love ROB or Ice Climbers due to their game of origin. Also, I would wager most Ike, Lucas, and Ness fans have not played their game of origin either.

 

[Burruni]

Insignificant mini-rant

Spoiler

Honestly, is, in a way, the for Fire Emblem, in regards to Smash in the way that they both have been very distanced from their high importance in their main franchise and are better known for their role in their home series.
As much as Jigglypuff has been always in Pokemon, in one way or another, the only time that she (using that pronoun because it's a 7:1 F:M ratio) was a significant Pokemon was the Kanto-era show which is what put it into the spotlight for Sakurai to choose her be put in fairly late in development with assets taken from , which has clear similarities Chronobound explained for Roy as a Marth clone.

As much as people said that Jigglypuff "should" or "would" be cut come this game (as they said in Brawl speculation), there were three significant things that kept her in that keep her in a different category than Roy.

1. Original 12 rule, fan-created or not, is a strong root... but the following two are more important.
2. She is, in comparison to some other fighters, is a simple one to create because of a simplistic model (that can be built from the base of a Kirby one in basically every game). And really... there is not much that is complex in her moveset. I often draw parallels from this to .
3. She is still a very unique character. Some aerials are similar to Kirby's, and they share the multiple jumps, but her specials and maneuverability gives her a rooted place to make her stand out. This is the biggest thing. Sakurai clearly doesn't want to cut unique content. eventually came back. got cut due to 3DS issues (worked well on WiiU), and may still return via DLC. has the entire third party enigma, with his stance on how he wanted the guests to all have certain "Star Power" with gaming icons making up our three characters as is.

In regards to the 5 cut Melee characters, came back because he was already being worked on as an Alternate Costume and was just delegated into a bit more work to differentiate his moves (based on the properties he had in Melee) went through this similarly, and both effectively got a reskinned Final Smash. is returning because he had a unique moveset and still being one of the most wildly requested characters. is still replaced by with the only differences being... that taunt and the fact that Young Link had fire arrows for some reason. is still pointless on a roster for anything other than cuteness. got to take the place as a harder hitting Fire Emblem swordsman and as a Marth clone.

This is why I won't support Roy for DLC. &are for more differentiated clones. I'm not a Star Fox fan and Mother is never getting a 4th game unless someone takes up the series, but in terms of Smash they bring more to the table.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Let me get this straight. K.Rool isn't unique enough to get into Smash Bros., but Young Link is good enough to get in because he has a remake, yet is a 3rd Link, in otherwords something that goes against what you've said here? "able to provide a diverse playstyle from the getgo". Wut? Plus, that whole notion is subjective at best and places you in a very small minority.

For the record I'm open to any realistic possibility, especially with things that have to do with upcoming games for franchises. I'll respond to this later. :U

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Young Link making it in over other characters would cause riots

 

[Spazzy_D]

That's negligible considering that the Japanese FE fanbase does love Roy, and they were the only ones to properly receive Roy's game.

However, is a pretty stupid line of reasoning. I doubt very few people love ROB or Ice Climbers due to their game of origin. Also, I would wager most Ike, Lucas, and Ness fans have not played their game of origin either.

I don't think Roy would have featured as heavily in Fire Emblem Awakening DLC and been the second Lord available (only Marth came before him) if he wasn't popular.

 

[Burruni]

I don't think Roy would have featured as heavily in Fire Emblem Awakening DLC and been the second Lord available (only Marth came before him) if he wasn't popular.

He was used about as much as Alm, Celica, and Katarina (the third not even being a protagonist) in terms of the DLC for Awakening.

Saying he was put in Melee for his popularity in his one and only game, on the GBA without any kind of demo or so, which had yet to come out yet really doesn't add up.

Roy, in terms of the western FE community is often considered one of the worst Protagonists to the extent of saying his father is "Roy, done right." I don't have the background for Japan, however.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Here's a question for you Pokemon fans out there. People tend to write off Squirtle and Ivysaur not just because they are Pokemon reps, but because they are generation 1 Pokemon reps.

Are there any later Gen Pokemon that 1.) Have a decent level of popularity and 2.) Could inherit their move sets with slight animation tweaks?

I am not a fan of the series so I really don't know. I am, however, a fan of those move sets. I would like to see them comeback with or with out the characters, and if they are reskinned they may even make it back as alt costumes.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We are talking about just uniqueness right?

Characters are based on source material. Are we supposed to ignore that? Selectively? We referenced Splatoon here and the source material, but we don't mention K.Rool's source material, so he's therefore not unique enough. That just seems strange to me, and frankly unfair.

Yes, and I already seen the general movesets that contain the cannons, krown boomerangs, and the slam that stay close to the source material if you read my posts from before. And they don't provide something diverse that can easily that can compare to Inkling as really unique.

Does the character make sense? Characters like Geno, Monster Hunter or others I've seen tossed around simply don't meet particular criteria.

What does this have to do with uniqueness at all?..

Does she contribute to series balance?

..And I thought Sakurai said the character had to contribute to game balance?

It is a nightmare to develop. The Pokémon Trainer in Brawl probably took what approximately any given 5 other newcomers took to make because of it.

I proposed before many times that he can simply just turn into his mask forms temporarily for certain attacks. But I'd welcome Deku Link if they have to be even less conservative.

Well, thats one big questions thats hard to answer for any character. What's the start?

For Bowser Jr, everyone assumed it was the paintbrush, we got clown car.

For Rosalina, it was just simple galaxy stuff, we got luma.

For Duck Hunt, it was just Duck hunt, we got Zapper as a whole.

I don't really think it's fair to judge from the "start." Sakurai can clearly go beyond that.

Assuming were on the topic of uniqueness.
He can if he wants to.
But so far, the newcomers who had some form of importance, recent marketing, and/or merit like and are getting the treatment beyond that despite them having not much source material take from if you look at the notable games they appear in.

I feel like Sakurai can make them even more unique if he thinks they are worthy in merits.

Young Link making it in over other characters would cause riots

Riots that would last a short time that people will eventually get over of.

 

[JaidynReiman]

He was used about as much as Alm, Celica, and Katarina (the third not even being a protagonist) in terms of the DLC for Awakening.

Saying he was put in Melee for his popularity in his one and only game, on the GBA without any kind of demo or so, which had yet to come out yet really doesn't add up.

Roy, in terms of the western FE community is often considered one of the worst Protagonists to the extent of saying his father is "Roy, done right." I don't have the background for Japan, however.

"Roy, done right"? Huh... that's the first time I've seen Eliwood shown in a good light. Granted, at least Eliwood has time to level up, but he's a lot worse than Roy statistically. I've never particularly seen much good said about Eliwood and there's huge debates over whether Lyn or Eliwood is worse, but in general I see Lyn marked as more useful due to having a significant speed advantage.

Eliwood may be more useful than Roy because he has far more time to level up after promotion, but Eliwood still has a very late promotion, and he's worse than Roy statistically with no notably strengths, while at least Hector has decent defense and good attack, while Lyn has the speed and accuracy. At the same time, Eliwood does have lances to his advantage, which could be a plus. As a whole, I'd say Eliwood is more useful than Roy, but only because he has more time to level up after his promotion.

Here's a question for you Pokemon fans out there. People tend to write off Squirtle and Ivysaur not just because they are Pokemon reps, but because they are generation 1 Pokemon reps.

Are there any later Gen Pokemon that 1.) Have a decent level of popularity and 2.) Could inherit their move sets with slight animation tweaks?

I am not a fan of the series so I really don't know. I am, however, a fan of those move sets. I would like to see them comeback with or with out the characters, and if they are reskinned they may even make it back as alt costumes.

The only later gen Pokemon commonly brought up is Sceptile, and Sceptile doesn't particularly resemble the others at all from what I've seen. But I'm not big on Pokemon.

 

[ChronoBound]

Roy, in terms of the western FE community is often considered one of the worst Protagonists to the extent of saying his father is "Roy, done right." I don't have the background for Japan, however.

Like I said before, that is due to his absurdly late promotion (the latest in the entire series). If FE6 gets remade, he definitely will have his promotion a lot sooner.

Young Link making it in over other characters would cause riots

After Dark Pit, I wouldn't put anything past Sakurai.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Like I said before, that is due to his absurdly late promotion (the latest in the entire series). If FE6 gets remade, he definitely will have his promotion a lot sooner.



After Dark Pit, I wouldn't put anything past Sakurai.

But Toon Link and Young Link in one game? Chrono pls. Thats like having Bandanna Dee coming in as a character, and then having regular Dee as DLC.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Like I said before, that is due to his absurdly late promotion (the latest in the entire series). If FE6 gets remade, he definitely will have his promotion a lot sooner.

I'm not really sure how that would work, though. Roy's promotion is directly tied to him getting the Sword of Seals, which happens right before you face Zephiel. The only way that could possibly work is if several chapters were added between Roy getting the Sword of Seals and facing Zephiel, otherwise it ruins the flow of the story. There's no way to make the promotion happen earlier, unless they cut out chapters from early in the game and add more chapters between Roy and Zephiel. If they just add more chapters in between, its not any earlier in the game, there's just more time to level him up (which is a bit better at least, admittedly).

But Toon Link and Young Link in one game? Chrono pls. Thats like having Bandanna Dee coming in as a character, and then having regular Dee as DLC.

This same logic is why I highly doubt we'd also see Roy DLC. Roy is another Marth clone. Maybe he's slightly more original than Lucina, but that's not saying much. Unless they completely rework Roy, but then that ruins Roy for the people who liked him.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm not really sure how that would work, though. .

Storyline wise, it would make sense for Roy to promote at Chapter 16, considering he is given leadership of Etruria's armies after that point. Lords in the series usually promoted after being given some higher leadership position.

But Toon Link and Young Link in one game? Chrono pls. Thats like having Bandanna Dee coming in as a character, and then having regular Dee as DLC.

We already have it. The differences between Pit and Dark Pit are a whopping four move differences (different arrows, different dash arms, different final smashes, and I think one of their standard moves have different properties). Dark Pit is practically a re-color given his own slot.

I know everyone tends to bash Dark Pit, but Lucina has a lot of problems too as a clone (if there actually a difference between the her and Marth aside from the former lacking a sweetspot). As it stands, Doc is actually the most unique of the clone trinity.

 

[BluePikmin11]

But Toon Link and Young Link in one game? Chrono pls. Thats like having Bandanna Dee coming in as a character, and then having regular Dee as DLC.

That isn't a good comparison though.
I treat the main roster and DLC as two different things, it's mostly why I feel Young Link isn't a pointless addition, just an extra addition to advertise an upcoming game.

 

[Rockaphin]

I forgot all about this thread.
I don't think too many DLC characters will be released, after Mewtwo, I only expect one or two more. That's a huge maybe.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I'm not saying he is pointless. Just as a Impa supporter, I'm going to point out the negatives for Young Link. I welcome him, if he sports a different move set than the Links.

I forgot all about this thread.
I don't think too many DLC characters will be released, after Mewtwo, I only expect one or two more. That's a huge maybe.

I believe this too,, DLC characters take a while to create so I don't expect many.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Young Link only really works as a Zelda newcomer with a brand new move set. That would take as much work as, let's say, Classic Ganon or a completely unique Impa. Why would you want Young Link over an actual new character in that instance?

A heavily Luigified Roy, on the other hand, would be much simpler to include and would likely be supplemental to more unique DLC choices.

I'm not saying Roy has a great chance or even that he should come back (although I would love it if he did), I'm just saying that Roy > Young Link as a choice.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Storyline wise, it would make sense for Roy to promote at Chapter 16, considering he is given leadership of Etruria's armies after that point. Lords in the series usually promoted after being given some higher leadership position.

I dunno. Maybe, I suppose.

We already have it. The differences between Pit and Dark Pit are a whopping four move differences (different arrows, different dash arms, different final smashes, and I think one of their standard moves have different properties). Dark Pit is practically a re-color given his own slot.

But... Toon Link is ALREADY a clone of Link. He's slightly more original than Link and there are notable differences other than height, but not much. Toon Link is a third Link. That's the problem. Yeah, Dark Pit is an almost direct clone of Pit, but its just one clone, as opposed to two if Young Link was also added.

I'm not saying he is pointless. Just as a Impa supporter, I'm going to point out the negatives for Young Link. I welcome him, if he sports a different move set than the Links.

Which won't happen. Making him a completely pointless addition.

Young Link only really works as a Zelda newcomer with a brand new move set. That would take as much work as, let's say, Classic Ganon or a completely unique Impa. Why would you want Young Link over an actual new character in that instance?

A heavily Luigified Roy, on the other hand, would be much simpler to include and would likely be supplemental to more unique DLC choices.

I'm not saying Roy has a great chance or even that he should come back (although I would love it if he did), I'm just saying that Roy > Young Link as a choice.

Although I don't think Roy has any chance of coming back, completely agreed. Roy > Young Link. I've always held this position, honestly. Before we got Lucina I legitimately thought Roy had a decent shot at coming back (only if we got Robin over Chrom, though).

 

[ChronoBound]

I forgot all about this thread.
I don't think too many DLC characters will be released, after Mewtwo, I only expect one or two more. That's a huge maybe.

If that "second character page" does not happen, I only expect four DLC characters (one of which is already Mewtwo).

If there are only three more slots I would say that the remaining three should go to Wolf, Dixie or K. Rool, and Lucas or Bandanna Dee.

 

[Spazzy_D]

If that "second character page" does not happen, I only expect four DLC characters (one of which is already Mewtwo).

If there are only three more slots I would say that the remaining three should go to Wolf, Dixie or K. Rool, and Lucas or Bandanna Dee.

Dixie, Wolf, Mewtwo, and Lucas would satisfy me. There are other characters I would really like to see make it (such as Isaac), but that would make for a really solid final roster.

Have to save something for the next Smash game.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Which won't happen. Making him a completely pointless addition.

Indeed.
I'm not a Roy supporter but imagine if Roy was DLC and as alts he had other Lords. Like Leif. Pipe dreams though. Whatcha think Roy supporters? It would give him a bit of diversity. 8 clones in one package.
As for me I got most of the characters I wanted.
All thats left is
Wonder Red
Impa
A Bayonetta AT would be nice too

 

[BluePikmin11]

Young Link only really works as a Zelda newcomer with a brand new move set. That would take as much work as, let's say, Classic Ganon or a completely unique Impa. Why would you want Young Link over an actual new character in that instance?

I wouldn't put him over Ganon personally, but really MM3D gives him the better edge over many Zelda characters.

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I wouldn't put him over Ganon personally, but really MM3D gives him the better edge over many Zelda characters.

Hyrule Warriors is out already sir, sporting a cast of more relevant and vibrant characters. Also does anyone think that it is possible for models/elements from HW to be reused in Smash?

 

[Rockaphin]

Honestly, the only way I could see Young Link coming back is if they did something similar to Mario Kart 8.
Paper Mario and Young Link, so now we have three versions of the same character. As a huge Paper Mario supporter, that's a little much. I wouldn't oppose though.

I wouldn't put him over Ganon personally, but really MM3D gives him the better edge over many Zelda characters.

I think Young Link has a higher chance than Ganon, but I don't think either are likely.

 

[ChronoBound]

I dunno. Maybe, I suppose.

But... Toon Link is ALREADY a clone of Link. He's slightly more original than Link and there are notable differences other than height, but not much. Toon Link is a third Link. That's the problem. Yeah, Dark Pit is an almost direct clone of Pit, but its just one clone, as opposed to two if Young Link was also added.
.

Chapter 16 definitely works as an appropriate promotion time.

As for Toon/Young Link, I am not arguing in favor of him. I am just saying that after Dark Pit, I would not put anything past Sakurai. I could easily see that if Young Link did make it back in Sakurai would pull the same stunt as he did with Dark Pit, and have his official art/pose holding the FIerce Diety Mask, only for his Final Smash to involve him becoming an uncontrollable Fierce Diety Link that simply KO's a nearby opponent before transforming back in yet another Link clone.

As it stands though, the only veteran I am optimistic on coming back as DLC is Wolf. It really depends on how many slots for DLC there are about whether the likes of Lucas, Roy, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pichu come back. Snake and Ice Climbers have different issues than the other cut veterans.

For Snake, as I said before, its does not look well on the fact that the latest Metal Gear game will be available for PS3/360, but not Wii U.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

We are talking about just uniqueness right?

Yes, and I already seen the general movesets that contain the cannons, krown boomerangs, and the slam that stay close to the source material if you read my posts from before. And they don't provide something diverse that can easily that can compare to Inkling as really unique.

Again, this is subjective. K.Rool's weight class and gameplay mechanics aren't even being considered here. Is he a trap setter? Is he a spacing character? Grappler? The gameplay type he would have combined with what he is capable of is what we should be looking at here, or with any character.

Just because a character doesn't have the same abilities of another doesn't mean that the former is a bad choice or "isn't unique". That's unfair on so many levels.

What does this have to do with uniqueness at all?..

A lot actually. The characters I listed could likely have some unique traits to them. However, being unique on its own means nothing in their case. Geno is relatively obscure and will probably never get in Smash unless he becomes outrageously important or springs back into action. It's different for everybody depending on their situation.

..And I thought Sakurai said the character had to contribute to game balance?

Correct. But I still fail to see where Tharja fits in here. Adding Tharja would give Fire Emblem 5 characters, 3 being from the newest game. That would bring it to the same amount of Zelda and Pokemon, 3 ahead of Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Metroid, and 2 ahead of Kirby. Fire Emblem has been on the upswing, but five characters? That doesn't seem like good roster balance. Tharja's niche has been taken by Robin, Zelda and arguably Palutena. She could be a magic user, but there are other things in her way that make her a rather forgettable choice in my opinion.

I proposed before many times that he can simply just turn into his mask forms temporarily for certain attacks. But I'd welcome Deku Link if they have to be even less conservative.

Making him transform for one attack would defeat the purpose of the transformation in the first place, and would put unnecessary stress on the game. I still don't quite get why a 3rd Link should get priority over characters who bring more to the game. But hey, to each his own.

 

[Kenith]

The only third Link that is acceptable is Wolf Link with Midna in a tag-team.

 

[JaidynReiman]

If that "second character page" does not happen, I only expect four DLC characters (one of which is already Mewtwo).

If there are only three more slots I would say that the remaining three should go to Wolf, Dixie or K. Rool, and Lucas or Bandanna Dee.

I still don't quite see the logic or reasoning here. Why are we restricting the size based on the 3DS roster, when in fact, the Wii U roster only has room for TWO characters? Its a ridiculous notion to suggest that Sakurai left four slots open just for DLC characters he never planned. The roster was designed with the final game roster in mind. That's all. If he wants to add 10 new characters, he'll add 10 new characters (granted, I don't expect that, just trying to make a point).

The roster size and how many can "fit" means nothing at all, and I hate how people keep trying to suggest how many characters we could be getting based on roster size alone. It means nothing at all.

As it stands though, the only veteran I am optimistic on coming back as DLC is Wolf. It really depends on how many slots for DLC there are about whether the likes of Lucas, Roy, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Pichu come back. Snake and Ice Climbers have different issues than the other cut veterans.

For Snake, as I said before, its does not look well on the fact that the latest Metal Gear game will be available for PS3/360, but not Wii U.

Agreed on everything. The only veteran I'm optimistic on coming back is Wolf, hands down. I don't think any other Melee cuts will come back, while Lucas is 50/50 to me at this point and I do not think Snake will come back either.

 

[Pazzo.]

I don't think that Young Link is inconceivable... but we have Young Link already.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I suppose I don't get the pessimism with DLC. Are we forgetting about Mario Kart 8? Hyrule Warriors? NSMBU?

Smash is a system seller. I wouldn't expect a billion fafillion kagillion characters and a massive amount of content. But expecting something like 4-8 isn't too crazy in my opinion. I highly doubt the upcoming DLC for Mario Kart is the end of it. Imagine the moolah Nintendo could make if they add some solid content for Smash via DLC. It would be amazing.

Obviously, as I said, I wouldn't get too crazy. But optimism doesn't hurt.

 

[Kenith]

I suppose I don't get the pessimism with DLC. Are we forgetting about Mario Kart 8? Hyrule Warriors? NSMBU?
Smash is a system seller. I wouldn't expect a billion fafillion kagillion characters and a massive amount of content. But expecting something like 4-8 isn't too crazy in my opinion. I highly doubt the upcoming DLC for Mario Kart is the end of it. Imagine the moolah Nintendo could make if they add some solid content for Smash via DLC. It would be amazing.
Obviously, as I said, I wouldn't get too crazy. But optimism doesn't hurt.

Agree. Mario Kart is still missing some fan favorites like Diddy Kong, Bowser Jr., King Boo, Petey Piranha, etc. and there's no reason not to deliver.
Besides that, just look at the content in the DLC we have now. There are EIGHT tracks and three characters. PER pack. That is a lot. If Smash gets half that much support, we could get four characters.

EDIT: Especially if they're mostly veterans.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Young Link making it in over other characters would cause riots

Young Link is pretty much one of the few Nintendo characters that I would, without any hesitation say that he has absolutely no chance at all. Never mind the fact that he already has been replaced by a character who not only fills his role very well, but might as well be the same character as Young Link. He has little marketing potential precisely because he is the exact kind of character who has no real appeal due to Toon Link making him redundant. How many people are honestly going to be interested in Majora's Mask due to the inclusion of a redundant (and yes, considering Sakurai's philosophy on the Links and the fact that Young Link already had an established moveset with Sakurai showing reluctance to completely chance clone characters as shown by Ganondorf still having many moves in common with Captain Falcon, he is going to be an absolute clone) second child Link? Young Link isn't even a popularly requested character

More importantly he doesn't fit into any of Sakurai's criteria except fitting into the style of Smash Bros, which means nothing. He neither has appeal nor the Smash demand to make people want to play the game. He is not unique at all and he has no chance of becoming unique considering the history of veteran clones and the fact that Toon Link, a character that could have been unique, was turned into a clone because of Sakurai's philosophy regarding Links. Another Child Link that is a clone is redundant and thus he would absolutely do the opposite of contributing to game balance.

Young Link sticks out as a sore thumb and a nonsensical veteran inclusion for all the reasons that I have explained. Sorry, but there is no way, even as a easy clone addition, that Young Link will ever be DLC especially as the one supposedly "advantage" that he has is made moot by just how little appeal he has. If you ask me, Toon Zelda trumps Young Link in mere chance and she has over 20 times the chance he has (and that's not saying much, considering even 0.01%> 20 X 0!). Neither are popular, but at least she was planned for Brawl (as opposed to, you know, getting replaced by a character that is essentially the same thing as you and who takes your value and role away as the definitive Child Link). She also has had prominent post-Brawl appearances such as Spirit Tracks and WindWaker HD. More importantly, at least she wouldn't be redundant even as a clone, considering there isn't even a Zelda clone let alone a Child Zelda who is a clone.

In conclusion, can this ridiculous notion that Young Link remotely has a chance end? He is a terrible choice for an advertisement character, any importance he has as a child Link is moot due to Toon Link, he has no real appeal due to being yet another Link and a second, redundant Child Link, he has not only been a character that never was planned to be in Brawl but outright replaced and he doesn't have much Smash popularity.

 

[False Sense]

I don't think that Young Link is inconceivable... but we have Young Link already.

In essence, yes. Throughout the Zelda series, there have been many different incarnations of Link; it would be impossible to represent all of them in Smash. But apparently, Sakurai thinks it's important to represent these different incarnations, specifically the difference in age between Links. So he has regular Link encompass the "adult" Links, and Toon Link to encompass all the "young" Links. In that sense, a third Link is just unnecessary.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

In my opinion, unless you'd count Toon Link as the new Young Link, young link is finished.