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Character Discussion Thread

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XLIFE

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Overall, the Lucario news of his smashes acting faster is very good news for me, obviously. The fox news of a Wolf-esque palette for Fox is grave news to read. . .owell. The spoiler didn't say anything about a Gray & Purple palette for Charizard, I saw one exactly described that way in the Japanese demo, thinking it was a soft disconfirm for Mewtwo but not really.:ohwell:
The rumor was of a Lugia palette I believe (Or some other Pokemon unrelated to Mewtwo) but yeah Wolf news was hurtful... I'll still hold out hope tho.
 

Masonomace

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The rumor was of a Lugia palette I believe (Or some other Pokemon unrelated to Mewtwo) but yeah Wolf news was hurtful... I'll still hold out hope tho.
Someone posted once in the Mewtwo thread this guy::142:
Not to mention the palette seen in the Japanese Demo looks a lot like CHariard's Palette from Project M:

The 2nd one heavily resembles it. Wolf is probably the most touchy subject for palettes atm.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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The rumor was of a Lugia palette I believe (Or some other Pokemon unrelated to Mewtwo) but yeah Wolf news was hurtful... I'll still hold out hope tho.
Mario having Wario's clothing colors didn't stop Wario from being in Brawl. I doubt that the Wolf reference for Fox will affect Wolf's chances right now.
 

Spazzy_D

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Before I edit this, I figured I would post this again when more people are awake.
ROSTER POSTING TIME! I won't label it as optimistic or prediction or anything. I will just say, I think this one looks nice. Notice how all the clones are still grouped together, notice how all the figureheads on the left introduce you to the row.

Needs more Lucas.
 

SuperNintendoKid

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If our roster from the leak is the full one, than I would be fine with it except ice climbers being gone.
 
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Masonomace

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What would you guys like to see Lucas have in his move-set returning along with any tweaks to his move-kit? if you wanna go the extra mile replying some ideas you may.

EDIT: Examples = Z-air snake returning as his tether.
#2 = WaveBouncing PK Fire. Falcon was seen using the 180 degree grounded Falcon Punch which is aka as a Pivot Falcon Punch or Broverse Punch, so WaveBouncing is soft-confirmed to return as a mechanic if they brought back Broversing.
 
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ActionHankBeard

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I enjoyed playing as Lucas. He was actually one of my mains. His Smash attacks were so satisfying to hit with. But if I'm being honest.. I wouldn't mind if he didn't return as long as we got Poo, Paula or Jeff in his place. Especially Poo, since he's the fighter of the group.
 

Niala

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I enjoyed playing as Lucas. He was actually one of my mains. His Smash attacks were so satisfying to hit with. But if I'm being honest.. I wouldn't mind if he didn't return as long as we got Poo, Paula or Jeff in his place. Especially Poo, since he's the fighter of the group.
Can you imagine if they added Poo? Think of the implications, think of the years of snickering we'll have to endure as the announcer yells "And the winner is... Poo!" in a satisfying baritone.

Give me Lucas or give me death.
 
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Mr.X98

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You know, I think Jeff is a perfect Earthbound / Mother 2 Representative mainly due to the fact that he plays so differently to Ness in theory. He cannot use PK abilities in the original and used specific weapons created by him to fend off enemies. A fine juxtaposition in comparison to the PSI powers presented by Ness and Lucas.

(Course I haven't checked if he is an assist trophy in this game so this could all be for nothing... But either way, thoughts and ideas I guess.)

*EDIT*



Who could say no to that difference in playstyle?
 
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Masonomace

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So. . .how are they gonna roll with having palettes resemble for Ness involving practically all of Mother or any of it??

I better not see any Lucas or Claus-esque palettes.:ohwell:
I enjoyed playing as Lucas. He was actually one of my mains. His Smash attacks were so satisfying to hit with. But if I'm being honest.. I wouldn't mind if he didn't return as long as we got Poo, Paula or Jeff in his place. Especially Poo, since he's the fighter of the group.
I don't mind Poo, as long as cans of woop ass are being given out, I'd give none. Paula has my approval, but I think Jeff is confirmed a reoccurring AT again (not entirely sure).
Can you imagine if they added Poo? Think of the implications, think of the years of snickering we'll have to endure as the announcer yells "And the winner is... Poo!" in a satisfying baritone.

Give me Lucas or give me death.
I'll take death to go please.:urg:
Just adulting, my snickering in the speculated future would smile on the inside, so to prevent those from happening, Lucas is needed.
 
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~Krystal~

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You know, I think Jeff is a perfect Earthbound / Mother 2 Representative mainly due to the fact that he plays so differently to Ness in theory. He cannot use PK abilities in the original and used specific weapons created by him to fend off enemies. A fine juxtaposition in comparison to the PSI powers presented by Ness and Lucas.

(Course I haven't checked if he is an assist trophy in this game so this could all be for nothing... But either way, thoughts and ideas I guess.)

*EDIT*



Who could say no to that difference in playstyle?
I'd want Jeff over Lucas. I think he's a good idea and he might still be a possibility. Don't think we've seen his assist trophy yet. He won't make sense as a Ness alt. He's either playable or he's not.
 

Spinosaurus

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If someone were to replace Lucas I'd rather it be someone from Mother 1 or 3.

I suggest Duster.
 

Masonomace

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I'd want Jeff over Lucas. I think he's a good idea and he might still be a possibility. Don't think we've seen his assist trophy yet. He won't make sense as a Ness alt. He's either playable or he's not.
I just checked the list of Sm4sh & 5mash AT's. Jeff is NOT confirmed AT status. We living Jeff fans!
 

Mr.X98

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If someone were to replace Lucas I'd rather it be someone from Mother 1 or 3.

I suggest Duster.
Duster is a good idea also. I prefer focusing on dynamic characters from individual games in a series to shake things up and bring representation in more larger manner. Good call.

*EDIT*
I referred to my liking of Jeff as a character MAINLY due to the assist trophy / Newcomer situation.
 
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Masonomace

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I see Duster as a good fighter in the speed category. He'd use a good variety of leg attacks but that's about all I got for ideas.
 
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Spinosaurus

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I see Duster as a good fighter in the speed category. He'd use a good variety of leg attacks but that's about all I got for ideas.
Despite having a limp? :p

I could see him being the anti-shulk in that he cripples his opponent's stats but idk how that works. He's the only non-PSI user that's viable. (Boney is useless)
 

Masonomace

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Despite having a limp? :p

I could see him being the anti-shulk in that he cripples his opponent's stats but idk how that works. He's the only non-PSI user that's viable. (Boney is useless)
Hahaha yeah that limp is something tough to deal with. Maybe a steel-toe boot or a durable tough shoe to have on his limping leg with. (Did not play the games so I'm stretching it atm)
 

Xzsmmc

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Hahaha yeah that limp is something tough to deal with. Maybe a steel-toe boot or a durable tough shoe to have on his limping leg with. (Did not play the games so I'm stretching it atm)
His limp hardly seems to slow him down in Mother 3. Hell, he's the second fastest party member, and the physically strongest for the majority of the game.
 
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Niala

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I think I've said this before, but I'd be very happy if Jeff was chosen. Being able to play as a character who shares my name seems like it would be very fun.
 

Zynux

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"This roster is fantastic! Stop whining!!!"
"This roster sucks! it doesn't have X, Y, or Z!!!"

People on Smashboards are funny. The debates will only get more intense from here around the forums. :chuckle:


In my own, subjective opinion, this roster is...solid? It's fairly decent, with many good choices, but is also riddled with question design choices as well.


You have heavy hitters like Megaman, Pac-Man, Palutena, Little Mac and Villager. While I may have some grievances with some of their so-called "unique" movesets (like Palutena) I'm not going to deny that I feel that every single one of these characters had merit as characters alone and I am glad they are in here. They are great choices imo.


Then you have the likes of Robin, Shulk, and Rosalina. I don't feel these characters are quite on the level of the characters previously mentioned, but they have proven to be of merit. Rosalina, while I'm still iffy on her inclusion, gives a proper puppeteer fighter; Shulk I believe merits the attention considering his game Xenoblade Chronicles (and I'm glad to see new franchises), and Robin, probably the best thing to happen to break out the mediocrity the Fire Emblem franchise character choices.


But then you have Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Fighters, Greninja...character choices that I simply cannot fathom or agree with. Wii Fit Trainer made me laugh during the showing, and I was looking forward to her; but from what I can tell she is not only largely uninspired, but just seems to be an excuse for Sakurai to have "lol yoga jokes" in the game. I will go as far as to say that I would happy for her to be on the chopping block for the next game; her inclusion doesn't seem warranted or unnecessary, unless you want to pull out the "muh sales" argument on her Wii Fit game. Mii Fighters once more takes 3 largely derivative movesets and slaps them together. Their inclusion was even worse then I ever imagined; and am convinced that they were a waste of development time. Greninja is a baffling choice for a Pokemon: yes, he's the most popular 6th Gen Pokemon, but that's the equivalent of saying Waluigi is more popular then Petey Pirahna or Queen Bee. While Greninja will get Lucario tier popular once Smash 4 is released, prior to it he was beat out by the Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, Lucario, Blaziken, and Sceptile all in popularity. Doesn't help the fact that Gen 6 offered some relatively unimpressive Pokemon and starters in general, so him being more popular then them I don't find to be a huge feat.



We get some new franchises as well, like an Animal Crossing character (much needed), Xenoblade Character, and a Punch-Out character. All are great choices.


Yet, Mario gets 2 characters (3 if you count the Doc), Kid Icarus gets another character (2 if count Dark Pit/Pittoo), Fire Emblem gets 2 characters, Pokemon gets 1 character, yet Kirby, F-Zero, Starfox, Metroid, and Donkey Kong get ignored. Kirby is understandable, but the rest I can't fathom: No Metroid, Starfox loses a character, F-Zero could have provided a work around to the Falcondorf problem, and the Big Ape Donkey Kong himself, ripe with potential characters, just gets flat out shafted in content, even outside of characters.


Usually in a good crossover game, even if you have mega-franchises participating (like Mario, Pokemon) you still want to make sure they don't dominate over everything else. Of course, the mega-characters will be the face of marketing and such, and some franchises naturally allocate better character and content potential then others, but still, you usually want to be careful to make sure there isn't such a heavy slant.


Yet, this game is now starting to show that compared to most franchises 2 or 3, Mario Universe will have 5 characters, 6 if you count Bowser Jr., 7 if you count the Doc, 10 if you count Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong, and let's not even count all separate Koopaling alts. It shows a dangerous precedent of current Nintendo: of how recently, they have been relying far too much on the Mario name and his friends while other franchises seemingly collect dust. Mario is even pulling ahead of Zelda, assuming Zelda doesn't get a new character.

And I don't think I should even explain why Kid Icarus, after one successful game gets 3 characters under it's belt, while other far more successful franchises overall (*cough* Donkey Kong *cough*) still just sit there with no new characters.



Bowser, the King Koopa, gets a much needed overhaul. His moveset is now a lot less uninspired, and he fights more like how King Koopa would. This was a fantastic design choice from Sakurai, and gave me a slither of hope for this game. He actually looks badass, even though I generally don't play slow characters I want to use him badly.


Yet, the King of Evil, Ganondorf, whom not only is based off of Falcon (a character not even from the same franchise) but has always had problematic matchup with the other characters, still remains the same. Why?



With the transition from Melee to Brawl, we didn't lose much in terms of characters. Roy, Dr. Mario and Pichu were cut because they were unnecessary derivatives, Young Link was re-imagined into Toon Link, and Falco, the only really well designed clone out the group, was kept to live on. Mewtwo was the only real blunder of the cuts in Brawl.


But in Smash 4, we're not just losing derivative, uninspired movesets. Every character cut so far from Brawl at the very least was more then just an uninspired Melee clone; I won't go as far as to say some of these character cuts were "unique", per se, but I don't think they were chumps either: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf are all on the chopping block. The bolded characters in particular are characters that I feel either have merit as characters alone, or losing their unique moveset and playstyle is a damn shame.

Ganondorf is still a derivative of Falcon, Toon Link seems to show just as much similarities to Link as before and Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are joining the fray. Despite focusing on "uniqueness", characters that are obviously less unique stay or get added yet characters far more unique are low priority and are getting cut.

I'll say it again: the minimal of development time spent on the Doc, Girl Marth, and Pit with Black clothes was a waste and was probably best allocated elsewhere.



I'm not sure how I feel about Duck Hunt. This may largely be because the novelty of "retros" for me wore off ages ago.

In Melee, we got the completely unexpected Mr. Game & Watch, AKA the best and most unique character addition Sakurai has ever done IMO. While not always the best character in the meta-game, I thank Sakurai for Mr. Game & Watch; I found him to be the very definition of clever. Of course, there was the Ice Clibmers too, whom were "retro" as well but G&W was where it was at.

Theeeeen there was R.O.B....*sigh*, I don't know what beef I have with R.O.B. Prior to his inclusion I knew who he was, what he had done for the industry, and why he had merit. I got it.

But R.O.B. to me felt...cheap. A cash-in on the whole "retro" thing; Game & Watch was clever, but R.O.B. I felt was lazy and uninspired. To me, this was where I grew tired of the "Retro Rep."

Yet, here we are with Duck Hunt. I'm torn. He's not a necessarily bad choice, but I don't find him to be the most ideal either. He will probably offer some interesting gameplay, but some of the descriptions offered from the leakers about him leave me disappointed as well. I guess with him, we just have to wait and see him in action.


---


Many of the character additions in this game are great. Yet, I find many of them to be questionable. Some of the cuts I can understand; yet some of them boggle my mind or could have been avoided. Overall though, despite my grievances (I'm not even getting into the lack of Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool or Dixie) I think that the newcomers overall is... balanced out. I don't think this roster is AmAzInG, but it's not completely terrible either. Just...Okay? Maybe a little bit more then "okay", actually.



All in All, I give this roster a solid Sakurai/10. Yup, this is a Sakurai roster alright.


For better and for worse.
 
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epicgordan

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I heard that Duck Hunt actually made its debut in the Arcade in 1978, but it was ported over to the NES around 1984/85. Can anybody clarify this for me?

Edit: While I doubt I was necessarily off-topic, I don't think I intended to ask that question here. Thought I was in the General Leaks/Rumors thread where my question was intended to be asked. But that's okay. Whatever works.
 
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ActionHankBeard

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Jeff is the most likely candidate for a Lucas replacement seeing as though he's already been featured as an assist trophy.
 

Buzz Spendus

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I think that there's only one more character left to be added to the leaked roster, and I have a feeling that it's Mewtwo.

I always thought that if Mewtwo was in this game, we wouldn't know it until after release.

Also, I picked up a Japanese 3DS while I was over there in June. I can't wait until Friday to DL it from the eShop as soon as it goes up!
 

pupNapoleon

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"This roster is fantastic! Stop whining!!!"
"This roster sucks! it doesn't have X, Y, or Z!!!"

People on Smashboards are funny. The debates will only get more intense from here around the forums. :chuckle:


In my own, subjective opinion, this roster is...solid? It's fairly decent, with many good choices, but is also riddled with question design choices as well.


You have heavy hitters like Megaman, Pac-Man, Palutena, Little Mac and Villager. While I may have some grievances with some of their so-called "unique" movesets (like Palutena) I'm not going to deny that I feel that every single one of these characters had merit as characters alone and I am glad they are in here. They are great choices imo.


Then you have the likes of Robin, Shulk, and Rosalina. I don't feel these characters are quite on the level of the characters previously mentioned, but they have proven to be of merit. Rosalina, while I'm still iffy on her inclusion, gives a proper puppeteer fighter; Shulk I believe merits the attention considering his game Xenoblade Chronicles (and I'm glad to see new franchises), and Robin, probably the best thing to happen to break out the mediocrity the Fire Emblem franchise character choices.


But then you have Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Fighters, Greninja...character choices that I simply cannot fathom or agree with. Wii Fit Trainer made me laugh during the showing, and I was looking forward to her; but from what I can tell she is not only largely uninspired, but just seems to be an excuse for Sakurai to have "lol yoga jokes" in the game. I will go as far as to say that I would happy for her to be on the chopping block for the next game; her inclusion doesn't seem warranted or unnecessary, unless you want to pull out the "muh sales" argument on her Wii Fit game. Mii Fighters once more takes 3 largely derivative movesets and slaps them together. Their inclusion was even worse then I ever imagined; and am convinced that they were a waste of development time. Greninja is a baffling choice for a Pokemon: yes, he's the most popular 6th Gen Pokemon, but that's the equivalent of saying Waluigi is more popular then Petey Pirahna or Queen Bee. While Greninja will get Lucario tier popular once Smash 4 is released, prior to it he was beat out by the Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, Lucario, Blaziken, and Sceptile all in popularity. Doesn't help the fact that Gen 6 offered some relatively unimpressive Pokemon and starters in general, so him being more popular then them I don't find to be a huge feat.



We get some new franchises as well, like an Animal Crossing character (much needed), Xenoblade Character, and a Punch-Out character. All are great choices.


Yet, Mario gets 2 characters (3 if you count the Doc), Kid Icarus gets another character (2 if count Dark Pit/Pittoo), Fire Emblem gets 2 characters, Pokemon gets 1 character, yet Kirby, F-Zero, Starfox, Metroid, and Donkey Kong get ignored. Kirby is understandable, but the rest I can't fathom: No Metroid, Starfox loses a character, F-Zero could have provided a work around to the Falcondorf problem, and the Big Ape Donkey Kong himself, ripe with potential characters, just gets flat out shafted in content, even outside of characters.


Usually in a good crossover game, even if you have mega-franchises participating (like Mario, Pokemon) you still want to make sure they don't dominate over everything else. Of course, the mega-characters will be the face of marketing and such, and some franchises naturally allocate better character and content potential then others, but still, you usually want to be careful to make sure there isn't such a heavy slant.


Yet, this game is now starting to show that compared to most franchises 2 or 3, Mario Universe will have 5 characters, 6 if you count Bowser Jr., 7 if you count the Doc, 10 if you count Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong, and let's not even count all separate Koopaling alts. It shows a dangerous precedent of current Nintendo: of how recently, they have been relying far too much on the Mario name and his friends while other franchises seemingly collect dust. Mario is even pulling ahead of Zelda, assuming Zelda doesn't get a new character.

And I don't think I should even explain why Kid Icarus, after one successful game gets 3 characters under it's belt, while other far more successful franchises overall (*cough* Donkey Kong *cough*) still just sit there with no new characters.



Bowser, the King Koopa, gets a much needed overhaul. His moveset is now a lot less uninspired, and he fights more like how King Koopa would. This was a fantastic design choice from Sakurai, and gave me a slither of hope for this game. He actually looks badass, even though I generally don't play slow characters I want to use him badly.


Yet, the King of Evil, Ganondorf, whom not only is based off of Falcon (a character not even from the same franchise) but has always had problematic matchup with the other characters, still remains the same. Why?



With the transition from Melee to Brawl, we didn't lose much in terms of characters. Roy, Dr. Mario and Pichu were cut because they were unnecessary derivatives, Young Link was re-imagined into Toon Link, and Falco, the only really well designed clone out the group, was kept to live on. Mewtwo was the only real blunder of the cuts in Brawl.


But in Smash 4, we're not just losing derivative, uninspired movesets. Every character cut so far from Brawl at the very least was more then just an uninspired Melee clone; I won't go as far as to say some of these character cuts were "unique", per se, but I don't think they were chumps either: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf are all on the chopping block. The bolded characters in particular are characters that I feel either have merit as characters alone, or losing their unique moveset and playstyle is a damn shame.

Ganondorf is still a derivative of Falcon, Toon Link seems to show just as much similarities to Link as before and Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are joining the fray. Despite focusing on "uniqueness", characters that are obviously less unique stay or get added yet characters far more unique are low priority and are getting cut.

I'll say it again: the minimal of development time spent on the Doc, Girl Marth, and Pit with Black clothes was a waste and was probably best allocated elsewhere.



I'm not sure how I feel about Duck Hunt. This may largely be because the novelty of "retros" for me wore off ages ago.

In Melee, we got the completely unexpected Mr. Game & Watch, AKA the best and most unique character addition Sakurai has ever done IMO. While not always the best character in the meta-game, I thank Sakurai for Mr. Game & Watch; I found him to be the very definition of clever. Of course, there was the Ice Clibmers too, whom were "retro" as well but G&W was where it was at.

Theeeeen there was R.O.B....*sigh*, I don't know what beef I have with R.O.B. Prior to his inclusion I knew who he was, what he had done for the industry, and why he had merit. I got it.

But R.O.B. to me felt...cheap. A cash-in on the whole "retro" thing; Game & Watch was clever, but R.O.B. I felt was lazy and uninspired. To me, this was where I grew tired of the "Retro Rep."

Yet, here we are with Duck Hunt. I'm torn. He's not a necessarily bad choice, but I don't find him to be the most ideal either. He will probably offer some interesting gameplay, but some of the descriptions offered from the leakers about him leave me disappointed as well. I guess with him, we just have to wait and see him in action.


---


Many of the character additions in this game are great. Yet, I find many of them to be questionable. Some of the cuts I can understand; yet some of them boggle my mind or could have been avoided. Overall though, despite my grievances (I'm not even getting into the lack of Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool or Dixie) I think that the newcomers overall is... balanced out. I don't think this roster is AmAzInG, but it's not completely terrible either. Just...Okay? Maybe a little bit more then "okay", actually.



All in All, I give this roster a solid Sakurai/10. Yup, this is a Sakurai roster alright.


For better and for worse.
I don't disagree with the majority of what I read, but I do believe that there are still a good number of tricks left in the roster of the game, particularly as the Wii U version has not launched. Seeing as such, I think making a final conclusion before Holiday 2014 is a rather presumptuous and moot retort.
 

Mr.X98

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Joined
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Messages
245
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Somewhere...
"This roster is fantastic! Stop whining!!!"
"This roster sucks! it doesn't have X, Y, or Z!!!"

People on Smashboards are funny. The debates will only get more intense from here around the forums. :chuckle:


In my own, subjective opinion, this roster is...solid? It's fairly decent, with many good choices, but is also riddled with question design choices as well.


You have heavy hitters like Megaman, Pac-Man, Palutena, Little Mac and Villager. While I may have some grievances with some of their so-called "unique" movesets (like Palutena) I'm not going to deny that I feel that every single one of these characters had merit as characters alone and I am glad they are in here. They are great choices imo.


Then you have the likes of Robin, Shulk, and Rosalina. I don't feel these characters are quite on the level of the characters previously mentioned, but they have proven to be of merit. Rosalina, while I'm still iffy on her inclusion, gives a proper puppeteer fighter; Shulk I believe merits the attention considering his game Xenoblade Chronicles (and I'm glad to see new franchises), and Robin, probably the best thing to happen to break out the mediocrity the Fire Emblem franchise character choices.


But then you have Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Fighters, Greninja...character choices that I simply cannot fathom or agree with. Wii Fit Trainer made me laugh during the showing, and I was looking forward to her; but from what I can tell she is not only largely uninspired, but just seems to be an excuse for Sakurai to have "lol yoga jokes" in the game. I will go as far as to say that I would happy for her to be on the chopping block for the next game; her inclusion doesn't seem warranted or unnecessary, unless you want to pull out the "muh sales" argument on her Wii Fit game. Mii Fighters once more takes 3 largely derivative movesets and slaps them together. Their inclusion was even worse then I ever imagined; and am convinced that they were a waste of development time. Greninja is a baffling choice for a Pokemon: yes, he's the most popular 6th Gen Pokemon, but that's the equivalent of saying Waluigi is more popular then Petey Pirahna or Queen Bee. While Greninja will get Lucario tier popular once Smash 4 is released, prior to it he was beat out by the Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, Lucario, Blaziken, and Sceptile all in popularity. Doesn't help the fact that Gen 6 offered some relatively unimpressive Pokemon and starters in general, so him being more popular then them I don't find to be a huge feat.



We get some new franchises as well, like an Animal Crossing character (much needed), Xenoblade Character, and a Punch-Out character. All are great choices.


Yet, Mario gets 2 characters (3 if you count the Doc), Kid Icarus gets another character (2 if count Dark Pit/Pittoo), Fire Emblem gets 2 characters, Pokemon gets 1 character, yet Kirby, F-Zero, Starfox, Metroid, and Donkey Kong get ignored. Kirby is understandable, but the rest I can't fathom: No Metroid, Starfox loses a character, F-Zero could have provided a work around to the Falcondorf problem, and the Big Ape Donkey Kong himself, ripe with potential characters, just gets flat out shafted in content, even outside of characters.


Usually in a good crossover game, even if you have mega-franchises participating (like Mario, Pokemon) you still want to make sure they don't dominate over everything else. Of course, the mega-characters will be the face of marketing and such, and some franchises naturally allocate better character and content potential then others, but still, you usually want to be careful to make sure there isn't such a heavy slant.


Yet, this game is now starting to show that compared to most franchises 2 or 3, Mario Universe will have 5 characters, 6 if you count Bowser Jr., 7 if you count the Doc, 10 if you count Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong, and let's not even count all separate Koopaling alts. It shows a dangerous precedent of current Nintendo: of how recently, they have been relying far too much on the Mario name and his friends while other franchises seemingly collect dust. Mario is even pulling ahead of Zelda, assuming Zelda doesn't get a new character.

And I don't think I should even explain why Kid Icarus, after one successful game gets 3 characters under it's belt, while other far more successful franchises overall (*cough* Donkey Kong *cough*) still just sit there with no new characters.



Bowser, the King Koopa, gets a much needed overhaul. His moveset is now a lot less uninspired, and he fights more like how King Koopa would. This was a fantastic design choice from Sakurai, and gave me a slither of hope for this game. He actually looks badass, even though I generally don't play slow characters I want to use him badly.


Yet, the King of Evil, Ganondorf, whom not only is based off of Falcon (a character not even from the same franchise) but has always had problematic matchup with the other characters, still remains the same. Why?



With the transition from Melee to Brawl, we didn't lose much in terms of characters. Roy, Dr. Mario and Pichu were cut because they were unnecessary derivatives, Young Link was re-imagined into Toon Link, and Falco, the only really well designed clone out the group, was kept to live on. Mewtwo was the only real blunder of the cuts in Brawl.


But in Smash 4, we're not just losing derivative, uninspired movesets. Every character cut so far from Brawl at the very least was more then just an uninspired Melee clone; I won't go as far as to say some of these character cuts were "unique", per se, but I don't think they were chumps either: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf are all on the chopping block. The bolded characters in particular are characters that I feel either have merit as characters alone, or losing their unique moveset and playstyle is adamn shame.

Ganondorf is still a derivative of Falcon, Toon Link seems to show just as much similarities to Link as before and Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are joining the fray. Despite focusing on "uniqueness", characters that are obviously less unique stay or get added yet characters far more unique are low priority and are getting cut.

I'll say it again: the minimal of development time spent on the Doc, Girl Marth, and Pit with Black clothes was a waste and was probably best allocated elsewhere.



I'm not sure how I feel about Duck Hunt. This may largely be because the novelty of "retros" for me wore off ages ago.

In Melee, we got the completely unexpected Mr. Game & Watch, AKA the best and most unique character addition Sakurai has ever done IMO. While not always the best character in the meta-game, I thank Sakurai for Mr. Game & Watch; I found him to be the very definition of clever. Of course, there was the Ice Clibmers too, whom were "retro" as well but G&W was where it was at.

Theeeeen there was R.O.B....*sigh*, I don't know what beef I have with R.O.B. Prior to his inclusion I knew who he was, what he had done for the industry, and why he had merit. I got it.

But R.O.B. to me felt...cheap. A cash-in on the whole "retro" thing; Game & Watch was clever, but R.O.B. I felt was lazy and uninspired. To me, this was where I grew tired of the "Retro Rep."

Yet, here we are with Duck Hunt. I'm torn. He's not a necessarily bad choice, but I don't find him to be the most ideal either. He will probably offer some interesting gameplay, but some of the descriptions offered from the leakers about him leave me disappointed as well. I guess with him, we just have to wait and see him in action.


---


Many of the character additions in this game are great. Yet, I find many of them to be questionable. Some of the cuts I can understand; yet some of them boggle my mind or could have been avoided. Overall though, despite my grievances (I'm not even getting into the lack of Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool or Dixie) I think that the newcomers overall is... balanced out. I don't think this roster is AmAzInG, but it's not completely terrible either. Just...Okay? Maybe a little bit more then "okay", actually.



All in All, I give this roster a solid Sakurai/10. Yup, this is a Sakurai roster alright.


For better and for worse.
I believe the politically correct term is She-Marth... :p

Overall I agree with you, *in heavy voice* I am very happy! *end heavy voice* about the way the roster is without the speculation of more characters. But I suppose I am and others are (Who you refer to as the people who say "This roster is fantastic! Stop whining!!!" or "This roster sucks! it doesn't have X, Y, or Z!!!" BTW) doing this speculation stuff just to pass the time for the release.

You make a good point, and we all will see the truth by saturday. :)
 

Masonomace

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@ Zynux Zynux you sold me completely when you rated the overall roster as "fairly decent". I didn't even have to read the rest of your post. . .but I read it anyways.
Overall your post is majorly correct to my eyes & maybe other peers viewing it. The newcomers this Smash are solid & impressive. I share similar points on how you feel with the newcomers & still existing 'issues' that got little to no change, like the Falcondorf issue & how most franchises / series have got little to nothing in addition to their series. As a one-line rating of Sm4sh's roster, I was honestly sold when I realized / watched the trailer of Mega Man as a 3rd Party guest fighter. That moment sold me for 5mash because that's the game I will purchase.
 
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Zynux

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I don't disagree with the majority of what I read, but I do believe that there are still a good number of tricks left in the roster of the game, particularly as the Wii U version has not launched. Seeing as such, I think making a final conclusion before Holiday 2014 is a rather presumptuous and moot retort.
Oh, of course. These are just impressions and by no means final. Things can change when:
  1. The game is released and we get months of hands-on playtime with the characters. My opinion on them can change
  2. When the final roster is revealed (if it hasn't already).
  3. When the Wii U version is released. They may have some more tricks on their sleeve.
Right now, these are just my biased impressions. One step forward, one step back. Amazing choices filled with head-scratching ones. Fairly decent overall. Not amazing, not terrible.

:)
 

Mr.X98

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One step forward, one step back.
*Looks into quote way to far, cuts to me 5 months later studying what he said, point of realization reaching, epic climax at peak! "it means it got nowhere..." goes outside*

In all seriousness though, Do you think there is going to be some big thing that the WiiU version has that the 3DS doesn't? I wonder what they might have in store....
 

GunGunW

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*Looks into quote way to far, cuts to me 5 months later studying what he said, point of realization reaching, epic climax at peak! "it means it got nowhere..." goes outside*

In all seriousness though, Do you think there is going to be some big thing that the WiiU version has that the 3DS doesn't? I wonder what they might have in store....
I'm hoping for some sort of adventure mode such as what Melee had.
 

SANCHOCO

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All in All, I give this roster a solid Sakurai/10. Yup, this is a Sakurai roster alright.
First of all, I agree with everything you said
secondly, I think a Sakurai/10 is a perfect score for this roster lol
 

Masonomace

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I'm hoping for some sort of adventure mode such as what Melee had.
WiiU Extras wishlist: Excluding characters I mean just bonus modes n ish:
  • BOARD THE PLATFORMS!
  • Race to the Finish!
  • Past N64 stages return. All of them excluding the Sector Z Star Fox stage because of that swet Assault stage we're getting.
  • Melee Adventure Mode would be a nice wishful gift, yet with the amount of series there are now compared to Melee's amount, I hope we do not get a Melee adventure mode. Right now is like, 25 franchises so far. That'd be very time-consuming.:skull:
  • One Boss Round Battle Mode. Preferably a boss from each series / franchise. Example: Sonic = Dr. Eggman
 
D

Deleted member

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I've been a little out of the loop. What is this "last 5 characters" thing and where did it come from?
 

Mr.X98

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WiiU Extras wishlist: Excluding characters I mean just bonus modes n ish:
  • BOARD THE PLATFORMS!
  • Race to the Finish!
  • Past N64 stages return. All of them excluding the Sector Z Star Fox stage because of that swet Assault stage we're getting.
  • Melee Adventure Mode would be a nice wishful gift, yet with the amount of series there are now compared to Melee's amount, I hope we do not get a Melee adventure mode. Right now is like, 25 franchises so far. That'd be very time-consuming.:skull:
  • One Boss Round Battle Mode. Preferably a boss from each series / franchise. Example: Sonic = Dr. Eggman
Perfect... Just Perfect
*sound of crowd applauding*
74/28 Too School For Cool
 

~Krystal~

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I've been a little out of the loop. What is this "last 5 characters" thing and where did it come from?
They're just hoping for 5 characters. Remains to be seen if there's more than one extra. There's reasonable cause to believe that the roster we saw wasn't the complete one, because the all star mode still had a lock on it, which signifies that you don't have everyone. To sum it up, the 5 characters deal is a fan theory.
 
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