Character Discussion Thread

[Mr.X98]

I've been a little out of the loop. What is this "last 5 characters" thing and where did it come from?

Last Five Characters? what do you mean the roster leak speculation of filling the spaces with extra characters. Because the original leak had all star mode still being locked.

 

[Deleted member]

They're just hoping for 5 characters. Remains to be seen if there's more than one extra. There's reasonable cause to believe that the roster we saw wasn't the complete one, because the all star mode still had a lock on it, which signifies that you don't have everyone. To sum it up, the 5 characters deal is a fan theory.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

 

[Ffamran]

"This roster is fantastic! Stop whining!!!"
"This roster sucks! it doesn't have X, Y, or Z!!!"

People on Smashboards are funny. The debates will only get more intense from here around the forums.


In my own, subjective opinion, this roster is...solid? It's fairly decent, with many good choices, but is also riddled with question design choices as well.


You have heavy hitters like Megaman, Pac-Man, Palutena, Little Mac and Villager. While I may have some grievances with some of their so-called "unique" movesets (like Palutena) I'm not going to deny that I feel that every single one of these characters had merit as characters alone and I am glad they are in here. They are great choices imo.


Then you have the likes of Robin, Shulk, and Rosalina. I don't feel these characters are quite on the level of the characters previously mentioned, but they have proven to be of merit. Rosalina, while I'm still iffy on her inclusion, gives a proper puppeteer fighter; Shulk I believe merits the attention considering his game Xenoblade Chronicles (and I'm glad to see new franchises), and Robin, probably the best thing to happen to break out the mediocrity the Fire Emblem franchise character choices.


But then you have Wii Fit Trainer, Mii Fighters, Greninja...character choices that I simply cannot fathom or agree with. Wii Fit Trainer made me laugh during the showing, and I was looking forward to her; but from what I can tell she is not only largely uninspired, but just seems to be an excuse for Sakurai to have "lol yoga jokes" in the game. I will go as far as to say that I would happy for her to be on the chopping block for the next game; her inclusion doesn't seem warranted or unnecessary, unless you want to pull out the "muh sales" argument on her Wii Fit game. Mii Fighters once more takes 3 largely derivative movesets and slaps them together. Their inclusion was even worse then I ever imagined; and am convinced that they were a waste of development time. Greninja is a baffling choice for a Pokemon: yes, he's the most popular 6th Gen Pokemon, but that's the equivalent of saying Waluigi is more popular then Petey Pirahna or Queen Bee. While Greninja will get Lucario tier popular once Smash 4 is released, prior to it he was beat out by the Kanto Starters, Mewtwo, Lucario, Blaziken, and Sceptile all in popularity. Doesn't help the fact that Gen 6 offered some relatively unimpressive Pokemon and starters in general, so him being more popular then them I don't find to be a huge feat.



We get some new franchises as well, like an Animal Crossing character (much needed), Xenoblade Character, and a Punch-Out character. All are great choices.


Yet, Mario gets 2 characters (3 if you count the Doc), Kid Icarus gets another character (2 if count Dark Pit/Pittoo), Fire Emblem gets 2 characters, Pokemon gets 1 character, yet Kirby, F-Zero, Starfox, Metroid, and Donkey Kong get ignored. Kirby is understandable, but the rest I can't fathom: No Metroid, Starfox loses a character, F-Zero could have provided a work around to the Falcondorf problem, and the Big Ape Donkey Kong himself, ripe with potential characters, just gets flat out shafted in content, even outside of characters.


Usually in a good crossover game, even if you have mega-franchises participating (like Mario, Pokemon) you still want to make sure they don't dominate over everything else. Of course, the mega-characters will be the face of marketing and such, and some franchises naturally allocate better character and content potential then others, but still, you usually want to be careful to make sure there isn't such a heavy slant.


Yet, this game is now starting to show that compared to most franchises 2 or 3, Mario Universe will have 5 characters, 6 if you count Bowser Jr., 7 if you count the Doc, 10 if you count Yoshi, Wario, and Donkey Kong, and let's not even count all separate Koopaling alts. It shows a dangerous precedent of current Nintendo: of how recently, they have been relying far too much on the Mario name and his friends while other franchises seemingly collect dust. Mario is even pulling ahead of Zelda, assuming Zelda doesn't get a new character.

And I don't think I should even explain why Kid Icarus, after one successful game gets 3 characters under it's belt, while other far more successful franchises overall (*cough* Donkey Kong *cough*) still just sit there with no new characters.



Bowser, the King Koopa, gets a much needed overhaul. His moveset is now a lot less uninspired, and he fights more like how King Koopa would. This was a fantastic design choice from Sakurai, and gave me a slither of hope for this game. He actually looks badass, even though I generally don't play slow characters I want to use him badly.


Yet, the King of Evil, Ganondorf, whom not only is based off of Falcon (a character not even from the same franchise) but has always had problematic matchup with the other characters, still remains the same. Why?



With the transition from Melee to Brawl, we didn't lose much in terms of characters. Roy, Dr. Mario and Pichu were cut because they were unnecessary derivatives, Young Link was re-imagined into Toon Link, and Falco, the only really well designed clone out the group, was kept to live on. Mewtwo was the only real blunder of the cuts in Brawl.


But in Smash 4, we're not just losing derivative, uninspired movesets. Every character cut so far from Brawl at the very least was more then just an uninspired Melee clone; I won't go as far as to say some of these character cuts were "unique", per se, but I don't think they were chumps either: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Snake, Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf are all on the chopping block. The bolded characters in particular are characters that I feel either have merit as characters alone, or losing their unique moveset and playstyle is a damn shame.

Ganondorf is still a derivative of Falcon, Toon Link seems to show just as much similarities to Link as before and Dr. Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit are joining the fray. Despite focusing on "uniqueness", characters that are obviously less unique stay or get added yet characters far more unique are low priority and are getting cut.

I'll say it again: the minimal of development time spent on the Doc, Girl Marth, and Pit with Black clothes was a waste and was probably best allocated elsewhere.



I'm not sure how I feel about Duck Hunt. This may largely be because the novelty of "retros" for me wore off ages ago.

In Melee, we got the completely unexpected Mr. Game & Watch, AKA the best and most unique character addition Sakurai has ever done IMO. While not always the best character in the meta-game, I thank Sakurai for Mr. Game & Watch; I found him to be the very definition of clever. Of course, there was the Ice Clibmers too, whom were "retro" as well but G&W was where it was at.

Theeeeen there was R.O.B....*sigh*, I don't know what beef I have with R.O.B. Prior to his inclusion I knew who he was, what he had done for the industry, and why he had merit. I got it.

But R.O.B. to me felt...cheap. A cash-in on the whole "retro" thing; Game & Watch was clever, but R.O.B. I felt was lazy and uninspired. To me, this was where I grew tired of the "Retro Rep."

Yet, here we are with Duck Hunt. I'm torn. He's not a necessarily bad choice, but I don't find him to be the most ideal either. He will probably offer some interesting gameplay, but some of the descriptions offered from the leakers about him leave me disappointed as well. I guess with him, we just have to wait and see him in action.


---


Many of the character additions in this game are great. Yet, I find many of them to be questionable. Some of the cuts I can understand; yet some of them boggle my mind or could have been avoided. Overall though, despite my grievances (I'm not even getting into the lack of Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool or Dixie) I think that the newcomers overall is... balanced out. I don't think this roster is AmAzInG, but it's not completely terrible either. Just...Okay? Maybe a little bit more then "okay", actually.



All in All, I give this roster a solid Sakurai/10. Yup, this is a Sakurai roster alright.


For better and for worse.

I'd like to point out that Greninja was picked when Pokémon X/Y and/or SSB4 were in early development. Sakurai probably just asked for designs and updates on the new Pokémon game, saw Greninja, and said "Cool, Greninja's in the game", without potentially knowing Greninja's moves, typing, abilities, or how people would react to Greninja when Pokémon X/Y was launched, gained an analysis for competitive battling, and pretty much any logical reason. Greninja got in due to Sakurai's rule of cool.

Just imagine a parallel universe where Greninja wasn't popular or wasn't a good competitive Pokémon, but Delphox, Chesnaught, or some other 6th Gen Pokémon was or any other Pokémon was like, I don't know, let's say everyone loved Empoleon, but Greninja made it in. Plenty of people would be like, "Who the hell is this frog-thing?" or "Wow... Wow, he thought this POS was cool?".

Greninja was just a shot in the dark and Sakurai was lucky that Greninja became a popular Pokémon and a competitive one at that.

 

[The Light Music Club]

So apparently Fox has a Wolf alt color.


There goes my hopes.

And apparently Olimar can turn into Alph? That's dumb.

 

[Masonomace]

So apparently Fox has a Wolf alt color.


There goes my hopes.

And apparently Olimar can turn into Alph? That's dumb.

Hakuna Matata LMC, it doesn't outright dis-confirm the Wofl you play for breakfast. Just more waiting is required.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I'd like to point out that Greninja was picked when Pokémon X/Y and/or SSB4 were in early development. Sakurai probably just asked for designs and updates on the new Pokémon game, saw Greninja, and said "Cool, Greninja's in the game", without potentially knowing Greninja's moves, typing, abilities, or how people would react to Greninja when Pokémon X/Y was launched, gained an analysis for competitive battling, and pretty much any logical reason. Greninja got in due to Sakurai's rule of cool.

Just imagine a parallel universe where Greninja wasn't popular or wasn't a good competitive Pokémon, but Delphox, Chesnaught, or some other 6th Gen Pokémon was or any other Pokémon was like, I don't know, let's say everyone loved Empoleon, but Greninja made it in. Plenty of people would be like, "Who the hell is this frog-thing?" or "Wow... Wow, he thought this POS was cool?".

Greninja was just a shot in the dark and Sakurai was lucky that Greninja became a popular Pokémon and a competitive one at that.

I'm almost certain Gamefreak made Greninja absolute lightyears ahead of Chesnaught and Delphox in order to justify his inclusion and avoid possible backlash. I remember when the starters were leaked, and everyone made fun of Greninja.

 

[ihskeyp]

So apparently Fox has a Wolf alt color.


There goes my hopes.

And apparently Olimar can turn into Alph? That's dumb.

He can't 'turn into alph' like a transformation. It's just an alt costume.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm almost certain Gamefreak made Greninja absolute lightyears ahead of Chesnaught and Delphox in order to justify his inclusion and avoid possible backlash.

So, what your saying is that a conspiracy plot occurred... Interesting... DAMN IT! IS THIS WHY DELPHOX HAS A CRAPPY MOVE POOL?! AND CHESNAUGHT?! WAS ADDING FIGHTING-TYPE INSTEAD OF STEEL-TYPE A WAY TO MAKE CHESNAUGHT LOOK BAD ON PAPER?!

 

[The Light Music Club]

He can't 'turn into alph' like a transformation. It's just an alt costume.

I know. And that's stupid. Alts like that shouldn't be a thing.

 

[Doompatron3000]

@ Zynux As much as people hate to acknowledge it, the Wii Fit games are a new franchise for Nintendo. They are even trying to enter the health field, and no doubt the Will be a "bridge" of sorts. Wii Fit Trainer has earned the merits to be in.

As for Greninja, I doubt Sceptile was/is more of a popular choice. It wasn't until Greninja was announced for Smash, along with the Gen 3 remakes did people start demanding for Sceptile, and that was mostly based on Pokemon Trainer having the elemental starting trio of Fire, Water, and Grass. With a water starter in Greninja, and a fire starter in Charizard, people feel the need that we must have a grass starter representative, with Sceptile fitting the requirments, of Grass Starter, and recent game representative.

 

[Xzsmmc]

So, what your saying is that a conspiracy plot occurred... Interesting... DAMN IT! IS THIS WHY DELPHOX HAS A CRAPPY MOVE POOL?! AND CHESNAUGHT?! WAS ADDING FIGHTING-TYPE INSTEAD OF STEEL-TYPE A WAY TO MAKE CHESNAUGHT LOOK BAD ON PAPER?!

I'm not saying it definitely is, but I find it suspect just how huge the power difference is between Greninja and the other starters.

 

[ihskeyp]

I know. And that's stupid. Alts like that shouldn't be a thing.

In your opinion. Pikmim most likely won't ever get another rep, so I'm excited.
In guessing you're not too happy about the koopalings? Lol

 

[Masonomace]

As for Greninja, I doubt Sceptile was/is more of a popular choice. It wasn't until Greninja was announced for Smash, along with the Gen 3 remakes did people start demanding for Sceptile, and that was mostly based on Pokemon Trainer having the elemental starting trio of Fire, Water, and Grass. With a water starter in Greninja, and a fire starter in Charizard, people feel the need that we must have a grass starter representative, with Sceptile fitting the requirments, of Grass Starter, and recent game representative.

To be fair, I've wanted a Grass starter pokemon to be in Smash since Melee (Though I wanted Feraligatr in Melee so. . .). I originally wanted the 3 Kanto starters as playable characters (Charizard, Blastoise, & Venusaur, because we saw them in Smash 64 as 2 pokeball summons, & Venusaur as the stage element in the Saffron City 64 stage as a hazard / element). After Brawl released & I was aware of having & it was like a dream come true. Ivysaur was fun to play & interesting / hardest to play. It was a perfect combination of game-play & level of skill that tickled my fancy, making Ivysaur my Primary for a while. All that big blown up news about Sceptile getting a MEvo then THEN ORAS news, all of that was huge extra bonus on the side convinced me to want Sceptile even more in the roster. It went from "I'll play as any Grass pokemon in Sm4sh / 5mash" to "SceptileSceptileSceptileHypeHypeHype".

 

[The Light Music Club]

In your opinion. Pikmim most likely won't ever get another rep, so I'm excited.
In guessing you're not too happy about the koopalings? Lol

Yeah, you missed that entire rant. I HATE the idea of them being in.

 

[Mr.X98]

I know. And that's stupid. Alts like that shouldn't be a thing.

I think it's nice to have. So wait, you want him as a playable character? no offense but I am confused. Can you please explain that if it is all right with you?

 

[ihskeyp]

Yeah, you missed that entire rant. I HATE the idea of them being in.

Apparently I did miss it? In a short response, why do you hate it?

 

[The Light Music Club]

I think it's nice to have. So wait, you want him as a playable character? no offense but I am confused. Can you please explain that if it is all right with you?

No, it's not that I want him playable. It's that I don't think having characters being in under the name that they really aren't. And yeah, they could make it so it says Alph when he wins, but I still just find it strange that it's a thing.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So I thought I'd drop in to share who I think the final five would be if we get them, and I see people complaining.

Why?

We got Mega Man, Little Mac, and many other popular choices.
Stop whining over Ridley/Mewtwo. I wanted them too, but if we don't get them, we should still enjoy what we have.

This is just flat out greed.

I don't like people very much.


Now onto what I was saying about the final five.
I don't really buy any of those text leaks that say things like Impa, Dixie, and Mach Rider. I think they are just 4chan leaks piggybacking off of the Ninka/Vaanrose leak, or the CSS leak.

I think, if those texts leaks aren't true, we will get the following:
- Mewtwo (Fan-demand and importance. Bringing back Doc and not Mewtwo is asking for backlash)
- Ridley (Fan-demand and importance. I will believe in him till Sakurai says he isn't playable)
- Zelda Newcomer (There hasn't been a proper one since Melee. I'd say it's either Impa, Ganon, or Vaati. Also don't forget the Trophy Quiz)
- King K. Rool (Fan-demand and importance. Most of the text leaks nowadays are advocating for Dixie, but as I said, this is assuming those are false)
- Chorus Kids (Gematsu and Sneaky Spirits. That's about it)

 

[Mr.X98]

No, it's not that I want him playable. It's that I don't think having characters being in under the name that they really aren't. And yeah, they could make it so it says Alph when he wins, but I still just find it strange that it's a thing.

Okie Dokie I see what you mean, but wouldn't you rather have them in some playable form rather then just being excluded as a whole? I mean I guess it hurts the possibilities of alt colors for more characters but I think representation is more important though.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm not saying it definitely is, but I find it suspect just how huge the power difference is between Greninja and the other starters.

It was supposed to be a joke.

Anyway, I think it might another "Jack of All Trades; Master of All" sort of deal that most Fire Emblem games tends to suffer from - just tell me why Sorcerers have ridiculous defense in Awakening. Delphox played the wizard role where Delphox was reliant on heavy special damage and was frail like most depiction of magic users. Great, but Delphox's move pool isn't that great which is ironic since wizards tend to be cast a ton of spells.

Chesnaught was the warrior who - should have been the knight with Grass/Steel typing - was dependent on physical attacks and being a tank, but a Grass/Fighting typing has a lot of weaknesses compared to Delphox's and Greninja's typings.

Greninja leaned towards special attacks, but could work as a physical attack and being the fastest starter since Sceptile and with the amazing hidden ability: Protean - Delphox's hidden ability stole stuff... and Chesnaught's granted him immunity from "bomb" attacks like Sludge Bomb which helps since Poison is strong against Grass -, Greninja quickly became a Jack of All Trades while Delphox was a one-trick fox and Chesnaught was good, but flawed and hindered by typing. Granted, Greninja's a glass cannon, but glass cannons hit hard, so sometimes, that's all that's needed.

 

[Masonomace]

No, it's not that I want him playable. It's that I don't think having characters being in under the name that they really aren't. And yeah, they could make it so it says Alph when he wins, but I still just find it strange that it's a thing.

But we're finally in that age of Smash where we can pick Link, & play as the Fierce Deity Link palette, and / or the Dark Link palette. Dark Meta Knight & Galacta Knight (supposedly). Samus & Dark Samus-esque palette. These along with Alph as half of Captain Olimar's palettes, feels amazing. I say we get as much originating palettes these two games that we can. Sakurai wants to put in as many ATs as possible? Perhaps the same can be said to reference other characters from the same series as palettes too.

And I'm cool with the Announcer extra effort saying the palettes name specifically, cus it would feel weird to proclaim in a baritone voice "Olimar!" when you're playing as Alph.

 

[The Light Music Club]

So I thought I'd drop in to share who I think the final five would be if we get them, and I see people complaining.

Why?

We got Mega Man, Little Mac, and many other popular choices.
Stop whining over Ridley/Mewtwo. I wanted them too, but if we don't get them, we should still enjoy what we have.

This is just flat out greed.

I don't like people very much.


Now onto what I was saying about the final five.
I don't really buy any of those text leaks that say things like Impa, Dixie, and Mach Rider. I think they are just 4chan leaks piggybacking off of the Ninka/Vaanrose leak, or the CSS leak.

I think, if those texts leaks aren't true, we will get the following:
- Mewtwo (Fan-demand and importance. Bringing back Doc and not Mewtwo is asking for backlash)
- Ridley (Fan-demand and importance. I will believe in him till Sakurai says he isn't playable)
- Zelda Newcomer (There hasn't been a proper one since Melee. I'd say it's either Impa, Ganon, or Vaati. Also don't forget the Trophy Quiz)
- King K. Rool (Fan-demand and importance. Most of the text leaks nowadays are advocating for Dixie, but as I said, this is assuming those are false)
- Chorus Kids (Gematsu and Sneaky Spirits. That's about it)

Heh, I really don't like Mega Man or Little Mac or Pac Man or Dark Pit or Greninja or Rosalina or Shulk, so I will continue to whine over Mewtwo. Oh and King K.

I also don't get why you are including Chorus Kids. I just don't comprehend having 12 characters on the field at a time, when the Ice Climbers are apparently cut.

Okie Dokie I see what you mean, but wouldn't you rather have them in some playable form rather then just being excluded as a whole? I mean I guess it hurts the possibilities of alt colors for more characters but I think representation is more important though.

I rather them be excluded. Alt is even more degrading then being a clone. Just give them palette swaps to shout them out.

 

[Mr.X98]

Heh, I really don't like Mega Man or Little Mac, so I will continue to whine over Mewtwo. Oh and King K.

I also don't get why you are including Chorus Kids. I just don't comprehend having 12 characters on the field at a time, when the Ice Climbers are apparently cut.



I rather them be excluded. Alt is even more degrading then being a clone. Just give them palette swaps to shout them out.

Opinion is opinion, good enough for me! thank you.

 

[ihskeyp]

I rather them be excluded. Alt is even more degrading then being a clone. Just give them palette swaps to shout them out.

So it's more degrading to be a playable form of another character than to not be in the game at all? Our logic seems a big skewed, my friend. I don't think it's degrading for a small/less popular character to appear as a costume, they are lucky that their fan base can still use them even though they had no chance at being their own playable character.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Heh, I really don't like Mega Man or Little Mac, so I will continue to whine over Mewtwo. Oh and King K.

I also don't get why you are including Chorus Kids. I just don't comprehend having 12 characters on the field at a time, when the Ice Climbers are apparently cut.

The Ice Climbers AI was very complicated, and it makes sense that it would make the 3DS Lag.

It's assumed that with Chorus Kids, you'll be controlling one, and having the other two follow along. That's a simple "follow" command. And then there would be some attacks where they would move a certain way, and that's about it.

 

[The Light Music Club]

So it's more degrading to be a playable form of another character than to not be in the game at all? Our logic seems a big skewed, my friend. I don't think it's degrading for a small/less popular character to appear as a costume, they are lucky that their fan base can still use them even though they had no chance at being their own playable character.

See for me it's completely different. For example, If Robin dressed like Micaiah, I'd be fine. But if they said "Robin" after Micaiah just whooped some butt. I'd be a bit upset. I'd rather have her as an AT or just as a trophy. I mean for certain characters I guess it's okay, but whatever.

 

[Mr.X98]

See for me it's completely different. For example, If Robin dressed like Micaiah, I'd be fine. But if they said "Robin" after Micaiah just whooped some butt. I'd be a bit upset. I'd rather have her as an AT or just as a trophy. I mean for certain characters I guess it's okay, but whatever.

OH! so you are worried about that happening! Well I think Nintendo would change up the name call, I don't see Sakurai just leaving something like Roy winning and calling him Marth. That just wouldn't be like him, he loves to work on those little portions.

 

[The Light Music Club]

OH! so you are worried about that happening! Well I think Nintendo would change up the name call, I don't see Sakurai just leaving something like Roy winning and calling him Marth. That just wouldn't be like him, he loves to work on those little portions.

That's the main issue. It also has to do with some of the attacks not being correct (for instance Micaiah only uses Light, Anima, and Dark Magic along with staves while Robin uses all the other types). The last bit is that on the CSS I'm still not really picking the character, so it just doesn't feel right.

 

[Xzsmmc]

It was supposed to be a joke.

Anyway, I think it might another "Jack of All Trades; Master of All" sort of deal that most Fire Emblem games tends to suffer from - just tell me why Sorcerers have ridiculous defense in Awakening. Delphox played the wizard role where Delphox was reliant on heavy special damage and was frail like most depiction of magic users. Great, but Delphox's move pool isn't that great which is ironic since wizards tend to be cast a ton of spells.

Chesnaught was the warrior who - should have been the knight with Grass/Steel typing - was dependent on physical attacks and being a tank, but a Grass/Fighting typing has a lot of weaknesses compared to Delphox's and Greninja's typings.

Greninja leaned towards special attacks, but could work as a physical attack and being the fastest starter since Sceptile and with the amazing hidden ability: Protean - Delphox's hidden ability stole stuff... and Chesnaught's granted him immunity from "bomb" attacks like Sludge Bomb which helps since Poison is strong against Grass -, Greninja quickly became a Jack of All Trades while Delphox was a one-trick fox and Chesnaught was good, but flawed and hindered by typing. Granted, Greninja's a glass cannon, but glass cannons hit hard, so sometimes, that's all that's needed.

You hit the nail on the head with Greninja's ability. That's the number one thing that makes him so good. I think without it, he'd have just been another fairly versatile water type.

Delphox has no moves, (like a certain other fire type) and everything it can do, something else can do better. Doesn't help that Psychic is now a rather poor type. Chesnaught's typing is also poor, and he was introduced in the same gen as Talonflame and it's ridiculous hidden ability. If Chesnaught got something like Drain Punch, he'd at least be better, but as it stands now, he's yet another defense oriented Pokemon with no recovery. His ability is pretty good, but not enough to warrant using him.

Spoiler

Truth be told, I stopped competing seriously mid gen V due to the power creep. This is all secondary knowledge.

Regarding the Pokemon characters, I really just want Mewtwo. I love Pokemon, but none of the playable Pokemon interest me in the slighest, since Squirtle is gone. Mewtwo is at least one of my favorite legendaries. Though my ideal Pokemon character would be Dragonite or Feraligatr.

 

[Mr.X98]

That's the main issue. It also has to do with some of the attacks not being correct (for instance Micaiah only uses Light, Anima, and Dark Magic along with staves while Robin uses all the other types). The last bit is that on the CSS I'm still not really picking the character, so it just doesn't feel right.

Hmm, you are right about that. Moveset does change up some of the character authenticity. And any character with a changed moveset is set in the clone category. SOOOOOO.... Micaiah is out of the question (of course they could always change the color of the attack and say that it is that attack but I wouldn't like it.) and Alph should play like Olimar because of similar (in theory of gameplay of course) moveset.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Hmm, you are right about that. Moveset does change up some of the character authenticity. And any character with a changed moveset is set in the clone category. SOOOOOO.... Micaiah is out of the question (of course they could always change the color of the attack and say that it is that attack but I wouldn't like it.) and Alph should play like Olimar because of similar (in theory of gameplay of course) moveset.

So yeah, I guess Alph is okay, because he should play the same, and isn't a character I really care about anyway. (Nor Olimar).

The main reason I'm against the Koopalings is the idea that if they are the only swaps Bowser Jr. gets, then I can't play as him while someone else is. The other reason is that I find them annoying, and they got in MK8 over my DD mains in Bowser Jr. and Diddy Kong.

 

[Mr.X98]

So yeah, I guess Alph is okay, because he should play the same, and isn't a character I really care about anyway. (Nor Olimar).

The main reason I'm against the Koopalings is the idea that if they are the only swaps Bowser Jr. gets, then I can't play as him while someone else is. The other reason is that I find them annoying, and they got in MK8 over my DD mains in Bowser Jr. and Diddy Kong.

Three Words: Seven Deadly Skins

*EDIT* I hate what they did in MK8 (my precious Dry Bones! *sobs*) but I am okay with them in this oddly enough. Mostly because they do not take up roster space (ooh but if they did!....) and I like using most of them BECAUSE they are the butt of the joke by what they did in MK8.

 

[Masonomace]

Three Words: Seven Deadly Skins

Too many words. How about two words: Deadly Six.
(I'm not talking about Sonic Lost World)

 

[Zynux]

I'd like to point out that Greninja was picked when Pokémon X/Y and/or SSB4 were in early development. Sakurai probably just asked for designs and updates on the new Pokémon game, saw Greninja, and said "Cool, Greninja's in the game", without potentially knowing Greninja's moves, typing, abilities, or how people would react to Greninja when Pokémon X/Y was launched, gained an analysis for competitive battling, and pretty much any logical reason. Greninja got in due to Sakurai's rule of cool.

Just imagine a parallel universe where Greninja wasn't popular or wasn't a good competitive Pokémon, but Delphox, Chesnaught, or some other 6th Gen Pokémon was or any other Pokémon was like, I don't know, let's say everyone loved Empoleon, but Greninja made it in. Plenty of people would be like, "Who the hell is this frog-thing?" or "Wow... Wow, he thought this POS was cool?".

Greninja was just a shot in the dark and Sakurai was lucky that Greninja became a popular Pokémon and a competitive one at that.

I'm well aware. I will admit, I heavily disagree with that selection process. Marketing shenanigans like Lucas, Roy, and the Fire Emblem characters.

Everything with Greninja was pure luck. After Smash 4, I'm confident Greninja's popularity will become Lucario-tier soon.

 

[Mr.X98]

Too many words. How about two words: Deadly Six.
(I'm not talking about Sonic Lost World)

I see what you did there... *look to left to see my expression in it's full...*

 

[Ffamran]

You hit the nail on the head with Greninja's ability. That's the number one thing that makes him so good. I think without it, he'd have just been another fairly versatile water type.

Delphox has no moves, (like a certain other fire type) and everything it can do, something else can do better. Doesn't help that Psychic is now a rather poor type. Chesnaught's typing is also poor, and he was introduced in the same gen as Talonflame and it's ridiculous hidden ability. If Chesnaught got something like Drain Punch, he'd at least be better, but as it stands now, he's yet another defense oriented Pokemon with no recovery. His ability is pretty good, but not enough to warrant using him.

Spoiler

Truth be told, I stopped competing seriously mid gen V due to the power creep. This is all secondary knowledge.

Regarding the Pokemon characters, I really just want Mewtwo. I love Pokemon, but none of the playable Pokemon interest me in the slighest, since Squirtle is gone. Mewtwo is at least one of my favorite legendaries. Though my ideal Pokemon character would be Dragonite or Feraligatr.

Viciniti is considered to be the superior Fire/Psychic since it has tons of moves compared to Delphox and people said that Ninetales should have gotten a Psychic typing too since it made sense.

When the RPG theme was mentioned, I thought it was cool, but then I thought that Chesnaught should have gotten Steel instead of Fighting since knights tend to stand up against Dragons and win in Fairy tales. Fighting works for a warrior, but Steel makes more sense as a knight-themed Pokémon.

This also leads to other Pokémon with strange or missed typings. One, Samurott should have been Water/Fighting since he's based on a samurai who were considered to be mobile and powerful fighters in contrast to knights who were slow and powerful fighters like Chesnaught should have been. Feraligatr could have been the first Water/Dark starter or perhaps something else. Meganium was developed too early - Gen 3 introduced doubles and Meganium was more a support than fighter. Serperior could have just stayed as is and its hidden ability was good, but I don't think you could get it for some reason. Still, a Grass/Psychic - the air nobility and intelligence -, Grass/Electric 'cause why not, or Grass/Poison 'cause it's a snake. Then there's the triple Fire/Fighting starters, it was cool with Blaziken and cool with Infernape because of the Sun Wukong reference, but Emboar was too much even though he was another Sun Wukong reference - Emboar could have been Fire/Dark since I remember the Pig in the stories wasn't much of a decent guy.

Here's hoping we get something like Fire/Electric, Water/Fairy, and Grass/Ghost for the next starters. Something wacky, something strange, something that will surprise us.

Anyway, on topic: If Mewtwo gets in, what will Mewtwo's Final Smash be? Mewtwo X/Y transformation? Some wicked blast like Lucario's Brawl Final Smash? Or perhaps a Mewtwo and Mew tag team attack?

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'm well aware. I will admit, I heavily disagree with that selection process. Marketing shenanigans like Lucas, Roy, and the Fire Emblem characters.

Everything with Greninja was pure luck. After Smash 4, I'm confident Greninja's popularity will become Lucario-tier soon.

I disagree. Greninja will be the next Blaziken. A character who will lose popularity after the next gen comes. He won't reach Lucario's level.

And when you say Fire Emblem characters do you mean the newcomers or Ike?

 

[Arcanir]

You hit the nail on the head with Greninja's ability. That's the number one thing that makes him so good. I think without it, he'd have just been another fairly versatile water type.

Delphox has no moves, (like a certain other fire type) and everything it can do, something else can do better. Doesn't help that Psychic is now a rather poor type. Chesnaught's typing is also poor, and he was introduced in the same gen as Talonflame and it's ridiculous hidden ability. If Chesnaught got something like Drain Punch, he'd at least be better, but as it stands now, he's yet another defense oriented Pokemon with no recovery. His ability is pretty good, but not enough to warrant using him.

Spoiler

Truth be told, I stopped competing seriously mid gen V due to the power creep. This is all secondary knowledge.

Regarding the Pokemon characters, I really just want Mewtwo. I love Pokemon, but none of the playable Pokemon interest me in the slighest, since Squirtle is gone. Mewtwo is at least one of my favorite legendaries. Though my ideal Pokemon character would be Dragonite or Feraligatr.

I honestly disagree about Chesnaught. Granted, it's not Greninja level, but it's hardly horrible in competitive considering it has a good ability (and a unique one at that), good stats and decent typing. It really just wants Drain Punch to allow it to really tank.

Delphox, I honestly am curious why it's built like a sweeper when its moveset is more like a supporter.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm personally hyped to see these supposed Alternate palettes from Zipzo tomorrow. . .Galacta Knight imagined as a palette looks sick & am ready for those angel wings to flap with MK's 6+ jumps.

Anyway, on topic: If Mewtwo gets in, what will Mewtwo's Final Smash be? Mewtwo X/Y transformation? Some wicked blast like Lucario's Brawl Final Smash? Or perhaps a Mewtwo and Mew tag team attack?

What will it be? Probably the most mentioned one that gets the most pushed promotion that I would not like, being MegaMewtwoY. If it were me designing Mewtwo & I could give him a FS I'd make it MegaMewtwoX with teleporting approaches with nearby fighters, using flurry of attacks mixed with psystrikes to express the beatdown Mewtwo can deliver.

The mew duo being a FS cust-scene kind of FS sounds sweet. They do a combination attack & turn everyone into stone then end GGs.

 

[Zynux]

I disagree. Greninja will be the next Blaziken. A character who will lose popularity after the next gen comes. He won't reach Lucario's level.

And when you say Fire Emblem characters do you mean the newcomers or Ike?

Hmm, maybe you're right. However, being in Smash 4 will be a big deal for Greninja. He will skyrocket, that's for sure. Though maybe Blaziken popularity is more accurate, but we'll see.

As for Fire Emblem, I misspoke: I should have only really counted Roy. While Fire Emblem does have a tendency to seemingly add in the newer characters from the next game, that's not ample evidence for marketing shenanigans.

Roy was 100% marketing shenanigans though.