Character Discussion Thread

[Mr.X98]

Alternate palettes from Zipzo tomorrow

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! That's the first time I heard about that. please explain in excruciating detail.

 

[~Krystal~]

We dreamed of creating the world's most overpowered final smash... And we succeeded.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm well aware. I will admit, I heavily disagree with that selection process. Marketing shenanigans like Lucas, Roy, and the Fire Emblem characters.

Everything with Greninja was pure luck. After Smash 4, I'm confident Greninja's popularity will become Lucario-tier soon.

I don't like it, but I don't dislike it. It's a risk move and has that surprise factor like when Mr. Game & Watch went in. Marth getting in was another retro/obscure character while Roy, was, well, Roy and even if Roy wasn't in, I don't doubt that Fire Emblem wouldn't have become famous and it's nice to see games getting more awareness.

Lucas, on the other hand, wasn't marketing since Mother 3 was released 2 years before and it wasn't popular, but a niche title. Fire Emblem became popular and Ike was the new face, so he got in and I think, worldwide, people liked Ike compared to Marth and Roy who were unknown to most of the world. That and Roy's not that well-liked gameplay-wise since he was crippled throughout the game due to plot reasons. Marth was kind of the same thing, but it was the first Fire Emblem and Marth's stats, I think, were decent compared to Roy's.

Now, Lucina and Robin. I understand why Robin's in since Robin and Chrom are the new faces of Fire Emblem. Lucina is too, but for whatever reason, Sakurai decided she'd be an alt costume and then a clone. Lore-wise, she did emulate Marth, but gameplay-wise, Lucina fought differently in Awakening than Marth in SSB and Shadow Dragon. Heck, Marth was the clone of her in Awakening even though he had his own class, Lodestar. I have no idea why Lucina was made a clone aside from lazy development.

Pit and Palutena I totally understand since they and Medusa were the main characters of Kid Icarus. Then we get Pittoo instead of Magnus, Pyrrhon, Phosphora, or Medusa. Sure, he and Pit had a giant selection of weapons in Uprising, but really? A literal clone? Why not the dude with a giant sword, a god with fire powers, the electrifying lady of doom, or the villain of the first Kid Icarus?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Hmm, maybe you're right. However, being in Smash 4 will be a big deal for Greninja. He will skyrocket, that's for sure. Though maybe Blaziken popularity is more accurate, but we'll see.

As for Fire Emblem, I misspoke: I should have only really counted Roy. While Fire Emblem does have a tendency to seemingly add in the newer characters from the next game, that's not ample evidence for marketing shenanigans.

Roy was 100% marketing shenanigans though.

I agree with you for sure on Roy. Robin adds something that Fire Emblem needed (a magic character) and Ike has been in two games. Even though I like Lucina, I can see why some people might be irritated with her inclusion. I'm just glad I finally got a female from Fire Emblem (that isn't an Alt). Because I love the females in Fire Emblem.

 

[?????????????]

A few opinions on some statements made in the last couple of pages:

I actually am not a big fan of the Alph costumes, simply because Lucina and potentially Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are essentially the same thing, but separate characters. The inconsistency is reasonable, but it bugs me nonetheless.

Greninja won't be a "forgotten, only important in one gen Pokemon" for two reasons:
1.) He is in SSB4. That alone will extend his lifespan.
2.) Ash has a Froakie. That'll go somewhere.

 

[GunGunW]

I'm thinking that Wario will only have four biker colors and four overalls colors this time around,

 

[The Light Music Club]

I'm thinking that Wario will only have four biker colors and four overalls colors this time around,

Not sure. Apparently Little Mac has like 12 alt costumes.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm thinking that Wario will only have four biker colors and four overalls colors this time around,

If it's the same as Little Mac's BG check, Wario will get 16 palettes, 8 Biker, & 8 Overalls.

Not sure. Apparently Little Mac has like 12 alt costumes.

Little Mac has 16 palettes so far, was mentioned he has 8 regular palettes, then 8 Wire Frame palettes since Wire Frame is his costume swap like Wario.

 

[~Krystal~]

As long as Wario has his overalls, I'm content. He was a big reason I bought a Gameboy Advance when Wario Land 4 came out.

 

[Jiggly]

I'm still a little iffy about the secret 5...

Mewtwo and Ridley seem like a given

I'm not sure if Zelda will get a newcomer, but Impa seems to have a chance.

I'm on the "no RH rep" boat. People say "why would there be sneaky spirits", but at the same time, why would there be the IC polar bear?

With two left, I'm expecting Dixie Kong, due to how she was supposed to be in brawl, and how King K is a dead character as of the DK series.

Last one, People are saying Mach rider and such, but I'm hoping for Bandana Dee from te Kirby series. There are no waddle dees at all in DDD's moveset, stage entrance, and his victory poses, so that COULD mean something. They already have the models done from smash run, so it seems odd they wouldn't just have them in for his victory pose.


But ya, Krystal and Isaac aren't gonna be in idt.

 

[GunGunW]

If it's the same as Little Mac's BG check, Wario will get 16 palettes, 8 Biker, & 8 Overalls.

Little Mac has 16 palettes so far, was mentioned he has 8 regular palettes, then 8 Wire Frame palettes since Wire Frame is his costume swap like Wario.

I wonder if there will be eight male villagers and eight female villagers as well.

 

[?????????????]

My favorite potential Zelda newcomer is Tetra.

 

[Starbound]

I'm thinking there's only one character left and I'm convinced that if I'm right, it'll be Mewtwo or Chorus Kids.

 

[?????????????]

If there is a Rhythm Heaven character, I hope it is a stand-alone Marshal.

 

[bballstar23]

I don't like it, but I don't dislike it. It's a risk move and has that surprise factor like when Mr. Game & Watch went in. Marth getting in was another retro/obscure character while Roy, was, well, Roy and even if Roy wasn't in, I don't doubt that Fire Emblem wouldn't have become famous and it's nice to see games getting more awareness.

Lucas, on the other hand, wasn't marketing since Mother 3 was released 2 years before and it wasn't popular, but a niche title. Fire Emblem became popular and Ike was the new face, so he got in and I think, worldwide, people liked Ike compared to Marth and Roy who were unknown to most of the world. That and Roy's not that well-liked gameplay-wise since he was crippled throughout the game due to plot reasons. Marth was kind of the same thing, but it was the first Fire Emblem and Marth's stats, I think, were decent compared to Roy's.

Now, Lucina and Robin. I understand why Robin's in since Robin and Chrom are the new faces of Fire Emblem. Lucina is too, but for whatever reason, Sakurai decided she'd be an alt costume and then a clone. Lore-wise, she did emulate Marth, but gameplay-wise, Lucina fought differently in Awakening than Marth in SSB and Shadow Dragon. Heck, Marth was the clone of her in Awakening even though he had his own class, Lodestar. I have no idea why Lucina was made a clone aside from lazy development.

Pit and Palutena I totally understand since they and Medusa were the main characters of Kid Icarus. Then we get Pittoo instead of Magnus, Pyrrhon, Phosphora, or Medusa. Sure, he and Pit had a giant selection of weapons in Uprising, but really? A literal clone? Why not the dude with a giant sword, a god with fire powers, the electrifying lady of doom, or the villain of the first Kid Icarus?

Dark Pit's inclusion is probably the one that irks me the most. Granted, I still haven't gotten around to playing Uprising yet, but doesn't his entire existence hinge on the fact that he was a palette swap for Pit in Brawl? Now he's been upgraded to a full character? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Ffamran]

Hmm, maybe you're right. However, being in Smash 4 will be a big deal for Greninja. He will skyrocket, that's for sure. Though maybe Blaziken popularity is more accurate, but we'll see.

As for Fire Emblem, I misspoke: I should have only really counted Roy. While Fire Emblem does have a tendency to seemingly add in the newer characters from the next game, that's not ample evidence for marketing shenanigans.

Roy was 100% marketing shenanigans though.

Just look at Captain Falcon. Man's a household name now. Anyway, people said that Greninja's the "new Charizard", so Greninja's probably going to be even more popular which is a good and bad thing. Good 'cause why not? Bad 'cause fanbases can be, well, y'know. Now, I don't remember if Blaziken was the "previous Charizard" or Swampert, but I think Blaziken is and Mudkip was just a meme and joke thing. Funny, I don't like Blaziken or Charizard, but I will never bash on them like some people when talking about starters - Meganium is apparently the worst thing since cancer to some.

Roy being marketing is the stupidest and most ironic thing in the world of SSB. One, the game was never released overseas - the prequel was and was the first Fire Emblem to be released worldwide. Two, Roy ended up being disliked gameplay-wise in his own game. Hector, the man who dies in the beginning and uses a freaking battle axe in Roy's game became even more popular not just as a character, but as a badass in the prequel. Lyn and Eliwood were well-received too except that due to plot reasons and Eliwood being the first path for Blazing Sword, Eliwood's not that well-liked gameplay-wise since he doesn't become powerful until late-game - about 5 chapters left with one "dedicated" to him -, but at least he became a Paladin Lord and had an awesome horse and more mobility. Contrast that to his son who doesn't become powerful until the last two chapters. Yeah. I'd take Eliwood over Roy for Smash despite how little of a chance they have.

If only Sacred Stones was developed earlier or if only more people knew about Fire Emblem and we may have had a badass, fencing princess named Eirika or her badass twin brother with a spear: Ephraim.

 

[?????????????]

Dark Pit's inclusion is probably the one that irks me the most. Granted, I still haven't gotten around to playing Uprising yet, but doesn't his entire existence hinge on the fact that he was a palette swap for Pit in Brawl? Now he's been upgraded to a full character? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Dark Pit's a pretty cool character. Besides, Luigi's entire existence began as a palette swap.

 

[Mr.X98]

If it's the same as Little Mac's BG check, Wario will get 16 palettes, 8 Biker, & 8 Overalls.

Little Mac has 16 palettes so far, was mentioned he has 8 regular palettes, then 8 Wire Frame palettes since Wire Frame is his costume swap like Wario.

Let's not forget the Pink Sweater alt for Little Mac as Sakurai showed off in the PoTD! so that'a 24 color alts for Little Mac! (I'm not sure what you guys think about the alts is entirely right in that manner...)

 

[GamerGuy09]

While I'm hopeful that Bandana Dee will be a playable, I just have this sick feeling of impending disappointment...

I really hope I'm wrong, and there is tons of weird evidence to show that Bandana Dee is playable.

Also, can someone give me the source where Zip said no Waddle Dees appear in King Dedede's victory screen?

 

[Weeman]

While I'm hopeful that Bandana Dee will be a playable, I just have this sick feeling of impending disappointment...

I really hope I'm wrong, and there is tons of weird evidence to show that Bandana Dee is playable.

Also, can someone give me the source where Zip said no Waddle Dees appear in King Dedede's victory screen?

Wasn't he shown as a trophy in some leak though?

 

[Masonomace]

I wonder if there will be eight male villagers and eight female villagers as well.

I would like that very much. If Little Mac & Wario are getting 16 palettes disregarding alternate costumes, I feel these guys should get 16 palettes to share the gender love. I want the sexes to be 8 more.

A few opinions on some statements made in the last couple of pages:

I actually am not a big fan of the Alph costumes, simply because Lucina and potentially Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are essentially the same thing, but separate characters. The inconsistency is reasonable, but it bugs me nonetheless.

Greninja won't be a "forgotten, only important in one gen Pokemon" for two reasons:
1.) He is in SSB4. That alone will extend his lifespan.
2.) Ash has a Froakie. That'll go somewhere.

We have palettes like Dark Link & Blood Falcon including Daisy that aren't different slots. It bugs me too, irks me even. Sm4sh & 5mash will last for a good while aka 3+ years that could go to 5 or 6 like Brawl has. Could be even more than that! That point of view, Greninja will still be widely known when Pokemon hits it's 8th generation. And Ash's froakie better evolve quickly, but that won't happen because Ash is derp n slurp.

I'm on the "no RH rep" boat. People say "why would there be sneaky spirits", but at the same time, why would there be the IC polar bear?

Last one, People are saying Mach rider and such, but I'm hoping for Bandana Dee from te Kirby series. There are no waddle dees at all in DDD's moveset, stage entrance, and his victory poses, so that COULD mean something. They already have the models done from smash run, so it seems odd they wouldn't just have them in for his victory pose.

But ya, Krystal and Isaac aren't gonna be in idt.

Same thing can be said for any Smash Run enemy seen. Just because there's an enemy you see there from a certain series / franchise, does not particularly mean there will be a returning fighter or a newcomer from said series. Characters like King K. Rool ICs Chorus Kids / Marshall or any Rhythm Heaven character as a fighter in Smash. Sakurai adds in more content to the mode for more fun & surprises, that or the Smash Run enemies foreshadow the future fighters to be in Sm4sh, which is another possibility not to be ruled out.

I'm mainly hoping for two nearly-improbable character inclusions & I expect they won't be confirmed, but I hope heavily that they do. Mach Rider would be cool & I'd like to see that more than DHD really. BD is still a cool concept & a decent one at that, but even now I still want Galacta Knight despite the Alternate palette swap news he's one. I like the Fencer play-style of stabbing /using a lance, & it's just what GK is. Everything in BD's favor looks good as you stated with points about him. I wouldn't count Krystal & Issac out just yet though, they can be surprises.

Let's not forget the Pink Sweater alt for Little Mac as Sakurai showed off in the PoTD! so that'a 24 color alts for Little Mac! (I'm not sure what you guys think about the alts is entirely right in that manner...)

Apparently his hoodie was said to be just a alternate costume, not a swap (I'm not 100% sure on this). So I'm not sure he'll get 24 palettes to choose from. That's overkill even further beyond headshots.

 

[GamerGuy09]

Wasn't he shown as a trophy in some leak though?

That was super duper fake. It was confirmed that it matched the GMOD model in a T-Pose.

 

[Ffamran]

Dark Pit's a pretty cool character. Besides, Luigi's entire existence began as a palette swap.

Luigi was a palette swap of a twin who became a fraternal twin. Dark Pit has his own personality, but he's just a dark side of Pit unlike Mario & Luigi, the Snakes, and Dante & Vergil; Mario and Luigi are fraternal twins, Solid, Liquid, and Solidus look different and have different ideals while Big Boss was the original, and Dante & Vergil were like fire and ice. Thing is, Pittoo needs more time which is probably why people don't like him (potentially) being in SSB4 especially considering the time frame between Uprising's and SSB4's releases and who developed Uprising which is a claim for Sakurai being biased despite the fact that Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede - characters he made - are all in.

 

[GunGunW]

Luigi was a palette swap of a twin who became a fraternal twin. Dark Pit has his own personality, but he's just a dark side of Pit unlike Mario & Luigi, the Snakes, and Dante & Vergil; Mario and Luigi are fraternal twins, Solid, Liquid, and Solidus look different and have different ideals while Big Boss was the original, and Dante & Vergil were like fire and ice. Thing is, Pittoo needs more time which is probably why people don't like him (potentially) being in SSB4 especially considering the time frame between Uprising's and SSB4's releases and who developed Uprising which is a claim for Sakurai being biased despite the fact that Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede - characters he made - are all in.

Not to mention that Luigi has grown to look different than Mario and sound different from him. Plus, the NES era graphics kind of give more of an excuse than a character created in the 3DS era.

...and Luigi's name was never officially "Green Mario" or "Mariotoo"

 

[?????????????]

Luigi was a palette swap of a twin who became a fraternal twin. Dark Pit has his own personality, but he's just a dark side of Pit unlike Mario & Luigi, the Snakes, and Dante & Vergil; Mario and Luigi are fraternal twins, Solid, Liquid, and Solidus look different and have different ideals while Big Boss was the original, and Dante & Vergil were like fire and ice. Thing is, Pittoo needs more time which is probably why people don't like him (potentially) being in SSB4 especially considering the time frame between Uprising's and SSB4's releases and who developed Uprising which is a claim for Sakurai being biased despite the fact that Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede - characters he made - are all in.

Why does he need more time? It's no worse or different than previous additions of Roy, Ike, Lucas, Lucario, Greninja, Robin, Lucina, or even potentially Shulk and Rosalina.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Luigi was a palette swap of a twin who became a fraternal twin. Dark Pit has his own personality, but he's just a dark side of Pit unlike Mario & Luigi, the Snakes, and Dante & Vergil; Mario and Luigi are fraternal twins, Solid, Liquid, and Solidus look different and have different ideals while Big Boss was the original, and Dante & Vergil were like fire and ice. Thing is, Pittoo needs more time which is probably why people don't like him (potentially) being in SSB4 especially considering the time frame between Uprising's and SSB4's releases and who developed Uprising which is a claim for Sakurai being biased despite the fact that Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede - characters he made - are all in.

Well considering they are all All-Stars and not exact replicas of one another, no one has a reason to be made over them.

 

[?????????????]

Regardless, Dark Pit is his own entity with his own look and personality, so I see no reason to be upset with his inclusion, especially since it was probably just a last minute extra that wouldn't have existed or replaced anything else otherwise.

 

[Deleted member]

Alph being one of Olimar's alts is awesome! For a character that would never make it otherwise it's a nice nod to Pikmin fans.

 

[bballstar23]

Dark Pit's a pretty cool character. Besides, Luigi's entire existence began as a palette swap.

I guess that's true, but I've never really liked that argument as I've always viewed Luigi as more of a sidekick than anything else. He's also been able to build his own identity through the years, especially through his own series of games. That's not to say that Dark Pit doesn't have a personality of his own either. Like I said, I haven't played Uprising myself. I've just never liked the idea of a "Dark" version of another character. Didn't really care for it with Link or Samus either, and those are two of my favorite Nintendo characters. I just usually think it's a cheap plot tactic when trying to construct a villain or rival. Part of the reason why I think that argument doesn't work either is the fact that Luigi has decades of history behind him now, whereas Dark Pit is still a relatively new character.

Luigi was a palette swap of a twin who became a fraternal twin. Dark Pit has his own personality, but he's just a dark side of Pit unlike Mario & Luigi, the Snakes, and Dante & Vergil; Mario and Luigi are fraternal twins, Solid, Liquid, and Solidus look different and have different ideals while Big Boss was the original, and Dante & Vergil were like fire and ice. Thing is, Pittoo needs more time which is probably why people don't like him (potentially) being in SSB4 especially considering the time frame between Uprising's and SSB4's releases and who developed Uprising which is a claim for Sakurai being biased despite the fact that Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede - characters he made - are all in.

Agree with everything written here.

 

[~Krystal~]

Regardless, Dark Pit is his own entity with his own look and personality, so I see no reason to be upset with his inclusion, especially since it was probably just a last minute extra that wouldn't have existed or replaced anything else otherwise.

Here is my concern. We assume that clones take little time to add, but if you tweak their skills to the point where they have their own slot, won't you have to go through the arduous process of balancing them as well? Not to mention, there are final smashes to consider. Lucina could get away with using Marth's, but could Dr. Mario use Mario's without it looking silly?

 

[GamerGuy09]

Regardless, Dark Pit is his own entity with his own look and personality, so I see no reason to be upset with his inclusion, especially since it was probably just a last minute extra that wouldn't have existed or replaced anything else otherwise.

I guess I agree, but I dislike that he is most likely going to use the same model. Hopefully he will have different animations, and not just a grumpy face.

 

[GunGunW]

Maybe Yoshi will get all his colors from the MK8 dlc?

 

[?????????????]

I guess that's true, but I've never really liked that argument as I've always viewed Luigi as more of a sidekick than anything else. He's also been able to build his own identity through the years, especially through his own series of games. That's not to say that Dark Pit doesn't have a personality of his own either. Like I said, I haven't played Uprising myself. I've just never liked the idea of a "Dark" version of another character. Didn't really care for it with Link or Samus either, and those are two of my favorite Nintendo characters. I just usually think it's a cheap plot tactic when trying to construct a villain or rival. Part of the reason why I think that argument doesn't work either is the fact that Luigi has decades of history behind him now, whereas Dark Pit is still a relatively new character.

Fair enough. I don't mind Dark Pit, but I can't say I particularly "like" him, as I too express an unfondness for "dark" characters because I believe they are lazily designed villains.

Here is my concern. We assume that clones take little time to add, but if you tweak their skills to the point where they have their own slot, won't you have to go through the arduous process of balancing them as well? Not to mention, there are final smashes to consider. Lucina could get away with using Marth's, but could Dr. Mario use Mario's without it looking silly?

At the very least, they don't have to spend time making models. I sincerely hope Dr. Mario has a unique Final Smash.

 

[Masonomace]

Here is my concern. We assume that clones take little time to add, but if you tweak their skills to the point where they have their own slot, won't you have to go through the arduous process of balancing them as well? Not to mention, there are final smashes to consider. Lucina could get away with using Marth's, but could Dr. Mario use Mario's without it looking silly?

Plus with a different game physics engine to re-build characters up practically from scratch, each, they might as well go the extra mile & do those changes to the padded clones balancing them out & given a decent FS that resembles the original's FS, but with a element change or any twist / tweak to it.

Maybe Yoshi will get all his colors from the MK8 dlc?

Yoshi's already got rainbow trailing egg tosses. I'm prepared for the whole plethora of colors.
EDIT: I'm ecstatic for every color but full-White Yoshi. Apparently that palette wasn't seen by the Japanese demo.

 

[Ffamran]

Why does he need more time? It's no worse or different than previous additions of Roy, Ike, Lucas, Lucario, Greninja, Robin, Lucina, or even potentially Shulk and Rosalina.

Regardless, Dark Pit is his own entity with his own look and personality, so I see no reason to be upset with his inclusion, especially since it was probably just a last minute extra that wouldn't have existed or replaced anything else otherwise.

He is his own character, but the issue is that he's appears to be just the dark side of Pit, especially for those that never played Uprising - heck, some think Shulk is some Japan-only BS. In Uprising, he's created, fights for his own reasons, and ends up helping Pit of his own choice. Pittoo's does everything out of his own choice regardless of what people say or think of him while Pit is driven to help others and there was even a hilarious part where he goes a bit cuckoo when he was in Hade's stomach and separated from Palutena. Pittoo's the classic anti-hero while Pit's the classic all-loving hero.

The main arguments against him is one, Sakurai made Uprising, therefore biased despite as I mentioned, his Kirby characters made it in. Two, Pit and Dark Pit are palette swaps so it'd be considered lazy development - ignoring that the leak showed Pittoo with a staff instead of bow and none of his moves. Three, the amount of Kid Icarus characters compared to other "neglected" franchises like Zelda who currently has no newcomers despite being a famous franchise, Star Fox's apparent cut of Wolf, the apparent destruction of the Ice Climber franchise, Metroid, Mother/EarthBound, and F-Zero's lack of newcomers. And finally, four: Ridley (and K. Rool and Mewtwo).

I'm not against him or anyone in particular since I just don't care who gets in or who doesn't. If there's someone cool or someone I like such as Rosalina, Wolf, Impa, Ike, or Greninja, then I'll be content. I will be disappointed if say, Wolf gets cut since I like his play-style and character or the Ice Climbers since they're a part of Smash, but I won't throw a tantrum or become outraged.

 

[bballstar23]

Plus with a different game physics engine to re-build characters up practically from scratch, each, they might as well go the extra mile & do those changes to the padded clones balancing them out & given a decent FS that resembles the original's FS, but with a element change or any twist / tweak to it.

Yoshi's already got rainbow trailing egg tosses. I'm prepared for the whole plethora of colors.
EDIT: I'm ecstatic for every color but full-White Yoshi. Apparently that palette wasn't seen by the Japanese demo.

Yeah from what I'm hearing about how most of the characters play, there's no doubt it was an arduous process re-creating all of them from the ground up for balancing purposes. That's partially why I would have been fine with the roster as is without the inclusion of obvious clones such as Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina (even though I plan to use her as one of my mains). I understand that there were good intentions there, but to me it just seems like a lame attempt to buff up the roster just like what happened in Melee. I'm not completely anti-clone, and I know we haven't been able to see how any of them play yet, but it all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[ActionHankBeard]

I hate the Dark Pit aspect of the leak the most. I don't even like the character. Like, his whole existence is like it's inspired by a terrible fanfic. The the thing about the koopalings as alts.. Look, Super Mario Bros 3 is my favorite Mario game of all time. I love that there getting more attention in recent games (especially Mario Kart, which in my opinion always made more sense than random enemies like Dry Bones and King Boo) but in SMASH they'd honestly work best as either an annoying ass assist trophy or Kirby hat/Yoshi style boss fight in a melee type adventure mode.

I'd prefer Bowser Jr have alts based on the koopalings color schemes than a completely different skin all together.

 

[?????????????]

To expand on my "Dark Villains" belief, I believe there are good ways to do evil versions of a good character. I use Wario as an example. He's not just a darkly colored, evil Mario. He takes Mario's physical and moral traits, and does the opposite. That's done pretty well.

When they were first showing off Kid Icarus Uprising stuff, they seemed to imply that this would be Magnus' role. He's a big buff man, as opposed to Pit's scrawny, child-like appearance, he fights for himself, as opposed to Pit's battle for good, and he's human, as opposed to Pit being an angel. I wish they would've scrapped Dark Pit and expanded upon Magnus as Pit's opposite.

To compare, I prefer Knuckles as Sonic's rival than Shadow. But these are just personal beliefs.

 

[Ffamran]

Yeah from what I'm hearing about how most of the characters play, there's no doubt it was an arduous process re-creating all of them from the ground up for balancing purposes. That's partially why I would have been fine with the roster as is without the inclusion of obvious clones such as Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Lucina (even though I plan to use her as one of my mains). I understand that there were good intentions there, but to me it just seems like a lame attempt to buff up the roster just like what happened in Melee. I'm not completely anti-clone, and I know we haven't been able to see how any of them play yet, but it all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I mentioned this before, but I think SSB4 is a "fix-it" or a "what Brawl should have been". In other words, it's a way to make everyone as viable as possible so that people can play for fun or for competition with whoever they want. So, you'll never or rarely have to deal with Fox and Falco dominating while Link and Ganondorf get to play Goldfish. I don't expect big changes unless it's due like Bowser being less monstrous and more goofy and better overall, but changes like making Ganondorf and Link faster, have better options, etc. are expected.

 

[?????????????]

I wish Ganondorf used swords and shot magic.